We don't just hand out guns to anyone, he lived in California which is a anti-gunners dream.
He passed the background checks that everyone here screams for.
California's anti-gun laws also kept these victims defenseless as there are only 52 concealed carry permit holders in that county. This murderers previous statements indicated that he was avoiding attacking certain places based on whether someone legally carrying could stop him.
... Doesn't that all goes to show that the background checks are not adequate? ... Also... when was the last time a person with a concealed carry permit stopped a mass killing? Because I can't seem to recall one.
Ccw holders usually stop crimes from becoming mass killings so I can't tell you because I don't have a crystal ball.
As far as the background checks they did work, his therapist then called the police in a panic saying he was a threat and they visited him. But they did nothing.
Yup, the cops fucked up big time. Hopefully this event will change their procedures when responding to calls like this. I.e. do a through search of the person's residence and not take them at their word when questioned.
... You are treading on very dangerous ground here. That means I can call the police on you and claim to be your father and tell them that you pose a threat to yourself and others. The police can then, go to your door and see if you are okay or not. If you say you are okay, they could still enter your home and conduct a search of the premises without a bench issued search warrant. That is a pretty scary proposition. ... See the timeline I posted. They had 10 minutes between the time the e-mails were sent, received and read by the therapist, who contacted the mother, who contacted the father... then, called 9-1-1. That is asking alot of local law enforcement.
We don't just hand out guns to anyone, he lived in California which is a anti-gunners dream.
He passed the background checks that everyone here screams for.
California's anti-gun laws also kept these victims defenseless as there are only 52 concealed carry permit holders in that county. This murderers previous statements indicated that he was avoiding attacking certain places based on whether someone legally carrying could stop him.
... Doesn't that all goes to show that the background checks are not adequate? ... Also... when was the last time a person with a concealed carry permit stopped a mass killing? Because I can't seem to recall one.
Exactly...
And when someone starts firing at you when you don't expect it a gun does you little good...
Reasonable people don't want to ban guns (except for assault weapons which have absolutely no place in society) they want to make purchasing guns as difficult as possible for the people that intend on misusing them.
... The thing I don't understand... how is putting more bullets in the air... coming from different directions... with terrified people running in several directions... make us safer? And how do we know who is the initial shooter, if there are a bunch of people shooting? Wouldn't it add to the confusion? ... I mean, let's say I have a concealed weapon and a leagal permit to carry it. I see the initial shots and can correctly identify the shooter. I draw my weapon an fire in his direction. Meanwhile... Mr. Gunrights, who also has a legal permit to carry a weapon, hears the shots (from both guns) and runs towards them hoping to stop the shooting. He rounds the corner and sees my... and put 3 rounds into me. How to you tell who is the bad guy with a gun... from the good guy with a gun?
Exactly....and situations like that will happen.
Please post said extensive list where this situation has occurred. Every state has some form of concealed carry. Please show me the facts that concealed carry holders have accidentally shot bystanders.
I'm guessing you have a much greater chance at being shot by a cop.
Who said there was an extensive list? We are envisioning a scenario that is very likely to play out given the wild wild west culture the gun nuts are cultivating.
Moron drops loaded weapon in Walmart...shoots woman who was pushing son in cart...what if that bullet had hit the boy in the head?
This is the gun culture in the USA
'Moron'
A beautiful word. So accurately describes so many people in one fluid word that just rolls off the tongue.
Different stress and accentuations make the term even more effective: in particular... I like really emphasizing the 'm' as you utter the word. It builds for a nice release and when the term is finally expressed following through... the result is a description that seems impossible to deny.
As in, "What a mmmmmoron!"
Try it some time. The emphasis takes away the need to throw foul language as an adjective to most accurately describe the level of moron one is relating.
Instead of, "What a fucking moron!" A person can say, "What a mmmmmoron!" and the effect is the same for accurately detailing the degree of said moron.
The only thing I ever have to add to these threads is that I think that (sadly), its too late. The gun culture in the USA is just going to get worse. I believe this because I think we really are getting desensitized to these mass shootings, and many of us who want better laws or more accurate registration, or better physiological evaluations are learning that this might never happen. So some folks like me, who are concerned about how to defend against the possibility of mass shooting are just going to go get guns themselves, and join the spiraling out of control gun culture of the US. (i'm still not getting a gun though, but the point is, that many like me, are).
It's going to get worse but I think that will be the catalyst to big reforms...
I believe it will get to the point where there is little resistance. Opinion polls reflect that the great majority of the population want stricter gun control.
Remember the Thomas Nine !! (10/02/2018) The Golden Age is 2 months away. And guess what….. you’re gonna love it! (teskeinc 11.19.24)
1998: Noblesville; 2003: Noblesville; 2009: EV Nashville, Chicago, Chicago 2010: St Louis, Columbus, Noblesville; 2011: EV Chicago, East Troy, East Troy 2013: London ON, Wrigley; 2014: Cincy, St Louis, Moline (NO CODE) 2016: Lexington, Wrigley #1; 2018: Wrigley, Wrigley, Boston, Boston 2020: Oakland, Oakland:2021: EV Ohana, Ohana, Ohana, Ohana 2022: Oakland, Oakland, Nashville, Louisville; 2023: Chicago, Chicago, Noblesville 2024: Noblesville, Wrigley, Wrigley, Ohana, Ohana
We don't just hand out guns to anyone, he lived in California which is a anti-gunners dream.
He passed the background checks that everyone here screams for.
California's anti-gun laws also kept these victims defenseless as there are only 52 concealed carry permit holders in that county. This murderers previous statements indicated that he was avoiding attacking certain places based on whether someone legally carrying could stop him.
... Doesn't that all goes to show that the background checks are not adequate? ... Also... when was the last time a person with a concealed carry permit stopped a mass killing? Because I can't seem to recall one.
Ccw holders usually stop crimes from becoming mass killings so I can't tell you because I don't have a crystal ball.
As far as the background checks they did work, his therapist then called the police in a panic saying he was a threat and they visited him. But they did nothing.
Yup, the cops fucked up big time. Hopefully this event will change their procedures when responding to calls like this. I.e. do a through search of the person's residence and not take them at their word when questioned.
... You are treading on very dangerous ground here. That means I can call the police on you and claim to be your father and tell them that you pose a threat to yourself and others. The police can then, go to your door and see if you are okay or not. If you say you are okay, they could still enter your home and conduct a search of the premises without a bench issued search warrant. That is a pretty scary proposition. ... See the timeline I posted. They had 10 minutes between the time the e-mails were sent, received and read by the therapist, who contacted the mother, who contacted the father... then, called 9-1-1. That is asking alot of local law enforcement.
Are you a therapist or psychiatrist and treating me? I'm not suggesting that just anyone can report such things. But I think that a mental health professional who is worried enough to contact the police should be assumed to be qualified here. I seriously doubt that therapists and psychiatrists make this kind of call very often at all. I think there are enough resources to respond to these kinds of cases, since I have no reason to think they are very common. It's a big deal with this kind of call is made IMO.
... In California, a patient being treated by a therapist is protected by the law that holds the therapist criminally responsible for notifying authorities, even if he/she believes the patient is a risk. That is probably why the therapist notified the mother and advised her to read the E-Mail. That way, the mother can notify the police and the therapist maintains the patient's confidentiality. She never told the mother the content of the message, just informed her that she needed to read it, immediately. And i agree, i wish there was a method to alert authorities as soon as possible. I mean, i completely understand doctor/patient confidentiality because without it, the patient will not confide in his/her true feelings. It would be nice to have both, full confidentiality and the ability to alert law enforcement... but, you cannot have both because they are in direct conflict of each other. I do not see the police being negligent. They were told by the mother, back in April, to check up on Elliot Rodger... which they did. He was fine and did not commit suicide and said things were okay. Police are not trainned mental health professionals. To me, I believe it would be worse to grant powers of search and seizure without a warrant. Because, like I said, if they took action in response to a phone call, under the presumption that the caller was indeed, his mother... would they have taken my call if I claimed to be his father?
Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
Hail, Hail!!!
Please post said extensive list where this situation has occurred. Every state has some form of concealed carry. Please show me the facts that concealed carry holders have accidentally shot bystanders.
I'm guessing you have a much greater chance at being shot by a cop.
... Did anyone say there were 'extensive lists'? I never said there were. What i had illustrated was a scenario. How would you identify the correct shooter if you rolled up on a scene where a mass shooting is taking place? ... I just want you to explain to me on how putting more bullets into the air will make people safer in cases where a mass shooting occurs... and note, most occur without prior warning. I'm not taking about stopping a kid from holding up a 7-11... i'm talking about a guy, walking into a mall, pulling out a 9mm and firing it into the crowd. If you are the only one with a gun and you fire upon the shooter... what stops someone else with a gun thinking you are the shooter and fires upon you? And can you guarantee that your shots will find its mark and not stray and take out a pregnant mother of 3 in the background? Can you guarantee that the second good guy with a gun will not fire stray shots?
Post edited by Cosmo on
Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
Hail, Hail!!!
Please post said extensive list where this situation has occurred. Every state has some form of concealed carry. Please show me the facts that concealed carry holders have accidentally shot bystanders.
I'm guessing you have a much greater chance at being shot by a cop.
... Did anyone say there were 'extensive lists'? I never said there were. What i had illustrated was a scenario. How would you identify the correct shooter if you rolled up on a scene where a mass shooting is taking place? ... I just want you to explain to me on how putting more bullets into the air will make people safer in cases where a mass shooting occurs... and note, most occur without prior warning. I'm not taking about stopping a kid from holding up a 7-11... i'm talking about a guy, walking into a mall, pulling out a 9mm and firing it into the crowd. If you are the only one with a gun and you fire upon the shooter... what stops someone else with a gun thinking you are the shooter and fires upon you? And can you guarantee that your shots will find its mark and not stray and take out a pregnant mother of 3 in the background? Can you guarantee that the second good guy with a gun will not fire stray shots?
there is always an excuse not to have or use something ...anything and there will always be people that are willing to create an argument aginst it...come to think of it this whole issue is a people problem not a gun problem, defective people not defective guns.
Please post said extensive list where this situation has occurred. Every state has some form of concealed carry. Please show me the facts that concealed carry holders have accidentally shot bystanders.
I'm guessing you have a much greater chance at being shot by a cop.
... Did anyone say there were 'extensive lists'? I never said there were. What i had illustrated was a scenario. How would you identify the correct shooter if you rolled up on a scene where a mass shooting is taking place? ... I just want you to explain to me on how putting more bullets into the air will make people safer in cases where a mass shooting occurs... and note, most occur without prior warning. I'm not taking about stopping a kid from holding up a 7-11... i'm talking about a guy, walking into a mall, pulling out a 9mm and firing it into the crowd. If you are the only one with a gun and you fire upon the shooter... what stops someone else with a gun thinking you are the shooter and fires upon you? And can you guarantee that your shots will find its mark and not stray and take out a pregnant mother of 3 in the background? Can you guarantee that the second good guy with a gun will not fire stray shots?
there is always an excuse not to have or use something ...anything and there will always be people that are willing to create an argument aginst it...come to think of it this whole issue is a people problem not a gun problem, defective people not defective guns.
Godfather.
And there will always be defective people and your not going to be able to identify them all.
I'd like to point something out. That the term "mass" seems to be misused an awful lot. Mulitple shooting yes, but MASS? I think not.
edit, useing the google machine I have learned there are no set criteria for what defines mass, but the FBI uses a baseline of 4 or more killed in a single incident/location to define as mass. my opinion still stands though. believe the use of that word to describe man y of these incidents is wrongheaded.
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
The only thing I ever have to add to these threads is that I think that (sadly), its too late. The gun culture in the USA is just going to get worse. I believe this because I think we really are getting desensitized to these mass shootings, and many of us who want better laws or more accurate registration, or better physiological evaluations are learning that this might never happen. So some folks like me, who are concerned about how to defend against the possibility of mass shooting are just going to go get guns themselves, and join the spiraling out of control gun culture of the US. (i'm still not getting a gun though, but the point is, that many like me, are).
It's going to get worse but I think that will be the catalyst to big reforms...
I believe it will get to the point where there is little resistance. Opinion polls reflect that the great majority of the population want stricter gun control.
People have to relise that it should be a Privilege not a Right...and I am all for Stricter Gun Control.
The only thing I ever have to add to these threads is that I think that (sadly), its too late. The gun culture in the USA is just going to get worse. I believe this because I think we really are getting desensitized to these mass shootings, and many of us who want better laws or more accurate registration, or better physiological evaluations are learning that this might never happen. So some folks like me, who are concerned about how to defend against the possibility of mass shooting are just going to go get guns themselves, and join the spiraling out of control gun culture of the US. (i'm still not getting a gun though, but the point is, that many like me, are).
It's going to get worse but I think that will be the catalyst to big reforms...
I believe it will get to the point where there is little resistance. Opinion polls reflect that the great majority of the population want stricter gun control.
People have to relise that it should be a Privilege not a Right...and I am all for Stricter Gun Control.
Ok, I'll play. What do you do with the millions of firearms already in possession?
Ok, what if I didn't want to participate in your three programs?
What do you mean? You wouldn't have a choice. If it became law... it would be law. At a minimum, begrudgingly register your gun so that you can purchase ammunition.
Do you think your country got it all figured out in 1787 and there is no need for reform or change?
Do you think the laws of your land are there to pick and choose from?
The only thing I ever have to add to these threads is that I think that (sadly), its too late. The gun culture in the USA is just going to get worse. I believe this because I think we really are getting desensitized to these mass shootings, and many of us who want better laws or more accurate registration, or better physiological evaluations are learning that this might never happen. So some folks like me, who are concerned about how to defend against the possibility of mass shooting are just going to go get guns themselves, and join the spiraling out of control gun culture of the US. (i'm still not getting a gun though, but the point is, that many like me, are).
It's going to get worse but I think that will be the catalyst to big reforms...
I believe it will get to the point where there is little resistance. Opinion polls reflect that the great majority of the population want stricter gun control.
People have to relise that it should be a Privilege not a Right...and I am all for Stricter Gun Control.
Ok, I'll play. What do you do with the millions of firearms already in possession?
Well like Thirty Bills Unpaid said...Bring in a Buy back Programme we did that in Australia after the Port Arthur Massacre and also Made it Law and it worked.
Do you really expect me to follow laws that would turn peaceful people into criminals? These politicians aren't our masters.
It's not the politicians pushing for such reforms- its the majority of your fellow countrymen that you share your land with.
That's the price to pay living in a democracy- majority rules.
Again... don't worry about it though. The 'minority' in this issue will have their way.
I'm impelled to correct you, the US is a Constitutional Republic, not a Democracy.
The majority isn't supposed to rule (even though your facts about the majority wanting more gun control are incorrect) because when the majority rules it violates the rights of the minority. Case in point; gay marriage, voting, etc.
Are you willing to turn 100M gun owners into felons? Better start building those prisons.
I don't think you become a felon...it's no different than not renewing your car registration. If you get caught you pay a fine.
Registration is a means of control but it is also a means to direct funding. Registration fees could be used to fund gun owner education, training, cooperation with law enforcement, etc.
This recent killing in Las Vegas is a good example. When two cops are eating lunch and see two people with assault rifles coming through the door do they need to draw their weapons in case they need to defend themselves? Open carry just puts everyone on edge....including the police.
I tend to defer to experts in their fields on things like this....the police don't like it and I support that.
Remember the Thomas Nine !! (10/02/2018) The Golden Age is 2 months away. And guess what….. you’re gonna love it! (teskeinc 11.19.24)
1998: Noblesville; 2003: Noblesville; 2009: EV Nashville, Chicago, Chicago 2010: St Louis, Columbus, Noblesville; 2011: EV Chicago, East Troy, East Troy 2013: London ON, Wrigley; 2014: Cincy, St Louis, Moline (NO CODE) 2016: Lexington, Wrigley #1; 2018: Wrigley, Wrigley, Boston, Boston 2020: Oakland, Oakland:2021: EV Ohana, Ohana, Ohana, Ohana 2022: Oakland, Oakland, Nashville, Louisville; 2023: Chicago, Chicago, Noblesville 2024: Noblesville, Wrigley, Wrigley, Ohana, Ohana
Are you willing to turn 100M gun owners into felons? Better start building those prisons.
I don't think you become a felon...it's no different than not renewing your car registration. If you get caught you pay a fine.
Registration is a means of control but it is also a means to direct funding. Registration fees could be used to fund gun owner education, training, cooperation with law enforcement, etc.
This recent killing in Las Vegas is a good example. When two cops are eating lunch and see two people with assault rifles coming through the door do they need to draw their weapons in case they need to defend themselves? Open carry just puts everyone on edge....including the police.
I tend to defer to experts in their fields on things like this....the police don't like it and I support that.
I agree every time you don't comply the Fine just gets Bigger and I'm sure the Majority of Law Abiding Citizens will be on Board with it.
Are you willing to turn 100M gun owners into felons? Better start building those prisons.
I don't think you become a felon...it's no different than not renewing your car registration. If you get caught you pay a fine.
Registration is a means of control but it is also a means to direct funding. Registration fees could be used to fund gun owner education, training, cooperation with law enforcement, etc.
This recent killing in Las Vegas is a good example. When two cops are eating lunch and see two people with assault rifles coming through the door do they need to draw their weapons in case they need to defend themselves? Open carry just puts everyone on edge....including the police.
I tend to defer to experts in their fields on things like this....the police don't like it and I support that.
So you guys are ok with the police murdering citizens based on a new law that would turn the law-abiding into criminals based simply on some whim of anti gun politicians?
I just want to be sure, because that would be what would happen. And don't give me the whole follow the law bullshit, many laws are unconstitutional and have been determined to be so. Gay marriage anyone? Or do you favor when the majority kept a ban on that as well? Wait, I get it. You guys like bans when they favor your belief system, because we know how people are treated here if they are against something like gay marriage.
There are some logical first steps that could be made. Federal registration and licensing would be a start. Another is raising the minimum age for purchase and possession from 18 to 21, an age group responsible for a huge proportion of violent crime and mass murders, and the age group in which mental illness often first presents (and even in the absence of mental illness - an age group in which impulse control is relatively sketchy). An 18 year old kid can legally go buy a shotgun - no parental consent required - but has to wait 3 more years to buy a beer? C'mon.
But my personal preference would be whatever it takes - a federal buyback, even confiscation - just to get gun ownership rates down to a more sane level (to me, that's under 5%). It's just that it's going to take a while to get there....
And unsung - not trying to put you on the spot here, we already know we disagree - I'm just curious how far apart we are. What do you think would be a "sane" gun ownership rate for the US?
Comments
Ah, the name calling.
Argument lost. Attention lost. Points rendered invalid.
Have a good day.
The best thing about that sign isn't even the spelling... it's the decision mid-flight to switch to upper case lettering.
I believe it will get to the point where there is little resistance. Opinion polls reflect that the great majority of the population want stricter gun control.
The Golden Age is 2 months away. And guess what….. you’re gonna love it! (teskeinc 11.19.24)
1998: Noblesville; 2003: Noblesville; 2009: EV Nashville, Chicago, Chicago
2010: St Louis, Columbus, Noblesville; 2011: EV Chicago, East Troy, East Troy
2013: London ON, Wrigley; 2014: Cincy, St Louis, Moline (NO CODE)
2016: Lexington, Wrigley #1; 2018: Wrigley, Wrigley, Boston, Boston
2020: Oakland, Oakland: 2021: EV Ohana, Ohana, Ohana, Ohana
2022: Oakland, Oakland, Nashville, Louisville; 2023: Chicago, Chicago, Noblesville
2024: Noblesville, Wrigley, Wrigley, Ohana, Ohana
Lighten up. I'm not arguing anything and I'm not calling anyone anything.
I'm just having a bit of fun with Gern that you can feel free to join in on.
Now if that's you in the picture... I apologize.
In California, a patient being treated by a therapist is protected by the law that holds the therapist criminally responsible for notifying authorities, even if he/she believes the patient is a risk. That is probably why the therapist notified the mother and advised her to read the E-Mail. That way, the mother can notify the police and the therapist maintains the patient's confidentiality. She never told the mother the content of the message, just informed her that she needed to read it, immediately.
And i agree, i wish there was a method to alert authorities as soon as possible. I mean, i completely understand doctor/patient confidentiality because without it, the patient will not confide in his/her true feelings. It would be nice to have both, full confidentiality and the ability to alert law enforcement... but, you cannot have both because they are in direct conflict of each other.
I do not see the police being negligent. They were told by the mother, back in April, to check up on Elliot Rodger... which they did. He was fine and did not commit suicide and said things were okay. Police are not trainned mental health professionals.
To me, I believe it would be worse to grant powers of search and seizure without a warrant. Because, like I said, if they took action in response to a phone call, under the presumption that the caller was indeed, his mother... would they have taken my call if I claimed to be his father?
Hail, Hail!!!
Did anyone say there were 'extensive lists'? I never said there were.
What i had illustrated was a scenario. How would you identify the correct shooter if you rolled up on a scene where a mass shooting is taking place?
...
I just want you to explain to me on how putting more bullets into the air will make people safer in cases where a mass shooting occurs... and note, most occur without prior warning.
I'm not taking about stopping a kid from holding up a 7-11... i'm talking about a guy, walking into a mall, pulling out a 9mm and firing it into the crowd. If you are the only one with a gun and you fire upon the shooter... what stops someone else with a gun thinking you are the shooter and fires upon you? And can you guarantee that your shots will find its mark and not stray and take out a pregnant mother of 3 in the background? Can you guarantee that the second good guy with a gun will not fire stray shots?
Hail, Hail!!!
Godfather.
edit, useing the google machine I have learned there are no set criteria for what defines mass, but the FBI uses a baseline of 4 or more killed in a single incident/location to define as mass.
my opinion still stands though. believe the use of that word to describe man y of these incidents is wrongheaded.
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
Ok, I'll play. What do you do with the millions of firearms already in possession?
1. Buy back programs.
2. Grandfather clauses.
3. Registry- and only sell ammunition to owners of registered guns.
There is no 'immediate' fix. You would experience your successes in a decade or so.
Do you think your country got it all figured out in 1787 and there is no need for reform or change?
Do you think the laws of your land are there to pick and choose from?
Are you willing to turn 100M gun owners into felons? Better start building those prisons.
That's the price to pay living in a democracy- majority rules.
Again... don't worry about it though. The 'minority' in this issue will have their way.
I'm impelled to correct you, the US is a Constitutional Republic, not a Democracy.
The majority isn't supposed to rule (even though your facts about the majority wanting more gun control are incorrect) because when the majority rules it violates the rights of the minority. Case in point; gay marriage, voting, etc.
Registration is a means of control but it is also a means to direct funding. Registration fees could be used to fund gun owner education, training, cooperation with law enforcement, etc.
This recent killing in Las Vegas is a good example. When two cops are eating lunch and see two people with assault rifles coming through the door do they need to draw their weapons in case they need to defend themselves? Open carry just puts everyone on edge....including the police.
I tend to defer to experts in their fields on things like this....the police don't like it and I support that.
The Golden Age is 2 months away. And guess what….. you’re gonna love it! (teskeinc 11.19.24)
1998: Noblesville; 2003: Noblesville; 2009: EV Nashville, Chicago, Chicago
2010: St Louis, Columbus, Noblesville; 2011: EV Chicago, East Troy, East Troy
2013: London ON, Wrigley; 2014: Cincy, St Louis, Moline (NO CODE)
2016: Lexington, Wrigley #1; 2018: Wrigley, Wrigley, Boston, Boston
2020: Oakland, Oakland: 2021: EV Ohana, Ohana, Ohana, Ohana
2022: Oakland, Oakland, Nashville, Louisville; 2023: Chicago, Chicago, Noblesville
2024: Noblesville, Wrigley, Wrigley, Ohana, Ohana
So you guys are ok with the police murdering citizens based on a new law that would turn the law-abiding into criminals based simply on some whim of anti gun politicians?
I just want to be sure, because that would be what would happen. And don't give me the whole follow the law bullshit, many laws are unconstitutional and have been determined to be so. Gay marriage anyone? Or do you favor when the majority kept a ban on that as well? Wait, I get it. You guys like bans when they favor your belief system, because we know how people are treated here if they are against something like gay marriage.
An 18 year old kid can legally go buy a shotgun - no parental consent required - but has to wait 3 more years to buy a beer? C'mon.
But my personal preference would be whatever it takes - a federal buyback, even confiscation - just to get gun ownership rates down to a more sane level (to me, that's under 5%). It's just that it's going to take a while to get there....