Elliot Rodger - California killing spree - all the issues

callen

Gern Blansten said:

The kid was mentally ill. His therapist knew it...his parents knew it. Unfortunately the gun culture and NRA freak show will not let legislation pass that would allow the information to be available to the police, etc. as to who is being treated for mental illness and, of those people, who owns a gun.

He shouldn't have been allowed to buy a gun in the first place. Secondly the police should have known that he had weapons and confiscated them when they spoke to him about the threats.

But that violates his second amendment rights I assume?

The second amendment is the most misinterpreted of the entire document....and many innocent people are being killed because of it.

In a nutshell. Great post Gern.

callen

unsung said:

We don't just hand out guns to anyone, he lived in California which is a anti-gunners dream.

He passed the background checks that everyone here screams for.

California's anti-gun laws also kept these victims defenseless as there are only 52 concealed carry permit holders in that county. This murderers previous statements indicated that he was avoiding attacking certain places based on whether someone legally carrying could stop him.

If you can go buy a gun it's not an anti gunners dream state. This story proves this.

As to guy avoiding certain places due to gun retaliation, well that's conjecture from one sided view.

Rather not have the average gun toting joe becoming my protector.

unsung

Well then you can continue to be fish in a barrel for these murderers.

I'll retain the right to defend my family and myself.

Have a good day.

Thirty Bills Unpaid

Byrnzie said:

http://www.latimes.com/opinion/opinion-la/la-ol-isla-vista-tragedy-elliot-rodger-charles-bukowski-20140527-story.html

What Elliot Rodger could have learned from poet Charles Bukowski
Isla Vista
Tony Pierce, guest blogger


One of the best things about author Charles Bukowski is that he was not pretty and yet he still found intimacy with women.

It’s a truly valuable lesson because any man can strut around if he’s tall, handsome and wealthy. Imagine you’re squat, pockmarked, fat and poor. If you can attract women with all that working against you, then yeah people should read your books.
Bukowski needs to be taught in every school. -

Friday night, Elliot Rodger, a rich pretty boy from the Valley drove a new BMW around a college town and shot at girls who in his mind wouldn’t give him the time of day. In the end, he killed six UC Santa Barbara students and wounded 13 during his rampage around Isla Vista.

In a series of YouTube videos, Rodger said he was frustrated because he was 22 and still a virgin despite being what he considered to be beautiful.

Bukowski needs to be taught in every school. The author too was dismayed by a good chunk of American society, but he pushed through. In fact, the main themes of his poetry and prose focus on an important message: No matter what cards you are dealt, you play them. You don’t turn over the table, you don’t cheat, you don’t raise your fist at the sky and ask why wasn’t I born a 6-foot-5 water polo god? You do you your thing, you make your own luck, you turn to the woman next to you and you accept what comes next.

Despite being ridiculously prolific, Bukowski would sometimes go back to his masterpieces and edit them before they were published or placed in an anthology.


The 1977 poem “The Crunch” probably would have resonated best with Rodger.

Here are the three versions of it, all great in their little ways.

“there is a loneliness in this world so great

that you can see it in the slow movement of

the hands of a clock,” states Bukowski, plainly, almost scientifically.

Please tell me the city college virgin wouldn’t have seen himself in this bit from the final edited version:

“we forget the terror of one person

aching in one room

alone

unkissed

untouched

cut off

watering a plant alone

without a telephone that would never

ring

anyway.”

The lesson of Bukowski is he can bust out with something like that, such a clear stark blast, but when he’s done he pours a glass of wine, smiles to himself drinks the wine, alone or otherwise and feels beautiful inside where it counts.

We're all going to die, all of us, what a circus! That alone should make us love each other but it doesn't.

callen

unsung said:

Well then you can continue to be fish in a barrel for these murderers.

I'll retain the right to defend my family and myself.

Have a good day.

Live in freakin Houston. Neighbor was robbed few years ago. Downtown a lot just don't fear it. Likely robber will want my cash and he can have it. If we both have guns there will be a shootout. Will just avoid.

chadwick

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

Byrnzie said:

http://www.latimes.com/opinion/opinion-la/la-ol-isla-vista-tragedy-elliot-rodger-charles-bukowski-20140527-story.html

What Elliot Rodger could have learned from poet Charles Bukowski
Isla Vista
Tony Pierce, guest blogger


One of the best things about author Charles Bukowski is that he was not pretty and yet he still found intimacy with women.

It’s a truly valuable lesson because any man can strut around if he’s tall, handsome and wealthy. Imagine you’re squat, pockmarked, fat and poor. If you can attract women with all that working against you, then yeah people should read your books.
Bukowski needs to be taught in every school. -

Friday night, Elliot Rodger, a rich pretty boy from the Valley drove a new BMW around a college town and shot at girls who in his mind wouldn’t give him the time of day. In the end, he killed six UC Santa Barbara students and wounded 13 during his rampage around Isla Vista.

In a series of YouTube videos, Rodger said he was frustrated because he was 22 and still a virgin despite being what he considered to be beautiful.

Bukowski needs to be taught in every school. The author too was dismayed by a good chunk of American society, but he pushed through. In fact, the main themes of his poetry and prose focus on an important message: No matter what cards you are dealt, you play them. You don’t turn over the table, you don’t cheat, you don’t raise your fist at the sky and ask why wasn’t I born a 6-foot-5 water polo god? You do you your thing, you make your own luck, you turn to the woman next to you and you accept what comes next.

Despite being ridiculously prolific, Bukowski would sometimes go back to his masterpieces and edit them before they were published or placed in an anthology.


The 1977 poem “The Crunch” probably would have resonated best with Rodger.

Here are the three versions of it, all great in their little ways.

“there is a loneliness in this world so great

that you can see it in the slow movement of

the hands of a clock,” states Bukowski, plainly, almost scientifically.

Please tell me the city college virgin wouldn’t have seen himself in this bit from the final edited version:

“we forget the terror of one person

aching in one room

alone

unkissed

untouched

cut off

watering a plant alone

without a telephone that would never

ring

anyway.”

The lesson of Bukowski is he can bust out with something like that, such a clear stark blast, but when he’s done he pours a glass of wine, smiles to himself drinks the wine, alone or otherwise and feels beautiful inside where it counts.

We're all going to die, all of us, what a circus! That alone should make us love each other but it doesn't.

edit. i made the mistake of you being byrnzie

chadwick

Byrnzie said:

http://www.latimes.com/opinion/opinion-la/la-ol-isla-vista-tragedy-elliot-rodger-charles-bukowski-20140527-story.html

What Elliot Rodger could have learned from poet Charles Bukowski
Isla Vista
Tony Pierce, guest blogger


One of the best things about author Charles Bukowski is that he was not pretty and yet he still found intimacy with women.

It’s a truly valuable lesson because any man can strut around if he’s tall, handsome and wealthy. Imagine you’re squat, pockmarked, fat and poor. If you can attract women with all that working against you, then yeah people should read your books.
Bukowski needs to be taught in every school. -

Friday night, Elliot Rodger, a rich pretty boy from the Valley drove a new BMW around a college town and shot at girls who in his mind wouldn’t give him the time of day. In the end, he killed six UC Santa Barbara students and wounded 13 during his rampage around Isla Vista.

In a series of YouTube videos, Rodger said he was frustrated because he was 22 and still a virgin despite being what he considered to be beautiful.

Bukowski needs to be taught in every school. The author too was dismayed by a good chunk of American society, but he pushed through. In fact, the main themes of his poetry and prose focus on an important message: No matter what cards you are dealt, you play them. You don’t turn over the table, you don’t cheat, you don’t raise your fist at the sky and ask why wasn’t I born a 6-foot-5 water polo god? You do you your thing, you make your own luck, you turn to the woman next to you and you accept what comes next.

Despite being ridiculously prolific, Bukowski would sometimes go back to his masterpieces and edit them before they were published or placed in an anthology.


The 1977 poem “The Crunch” probably would have resonated best with Rodger.

Here are the three versions of it, all great in their little ways.

“there is a loneliness in this world so great

that you can see it in the slow movement of

the hands of a clock,” states Bukowski, plainly, almost scientifically.

Please tell me the city college virgin wouldn’t have seen himself in this bit from the final edited version:

“we forget the terror of one person

aching in one room

alone

unkissed

untouched

cut off

watering a plant alone

without a telephone that would never

ring

anyway.”

The lesson of Bukowski is he can bust out with something like that, such a clear stark blast, but when he’s done he pours a glass of wine, smiles to himself drinks the wine, alone or otherwise and feels beautiful inside where it counts.

thank you, sir
a beautiful post

i have been told to read bukowski & i have a very little bit but never dove into his stuff. writing is my thing moreso than reading as i want my own... (way)
that & my attention span is that of a piece of worn down chalk nearly ungraspable

this is the key elliot shoulda picked up... poetry & finding his center
i will reinforce your words:
brokedown car, slim wallet, holes in shoes, a otherwise empty refrigerator but for the two year old jar of mayonnaise i forgot was rotting there

i am a poor ass dude who worships women as goddesses
therefore poetry is birthed as are wet
i am kissed, warmed & thrilled
hell, my barbaric nature is even accepted most of the time
i am grateful as i am

Gern Blansten

There are a few issues with our current obsession with guns...

1. Situations like Elliot Rogers....deranged killer, etc.
2. Situations where innocent people get shot/killed by accident. My news feed on facebook has almost daily posts where someone is shot because of accident. Yesterday there was a story about a lady who got shot in Walmart because some moron dropped his loaded weapon...supposedly just barely missed her infant. Today I see where a 6 year old killed his Grandpa at a family picnic because a moron left an assault rifle sitting out.

These stories will become very frequent....they will result in massive changes to our gun laws.

Keep in mind that the reason our gun laws will become more stringent is directly related to our gun laws (currently) becoming more relaxed.

I own a gun...I have a lifetime carry permit....so there

I wonder if the really "pro gun" people really give any thought to what they support. Take the guy who killed all of those people in the movie theatre a few years ago. In all of the confusion in that theatre...do you really picture yourself pulling out your gun and being the hero? It's much more likely that you would pull out your gun and shoot an innocent person in the melee taking place during a shooting like that.

I can't help but picture a scene like that where several people pull out guns and then the confusion becomes "who is the actual shooter?" Especially when the police arrive.....

Cosmo

unsung said:

We don't just hand out guns to anyone, he lived in California which is a anti-gunners dream.

He passed the background checks that everyone here screams for.

California's anti-gun laws also kept these victims defenseless as there are only 52 concealed carry permit holders in that county. This murderers previous statements indicated that he was avoiding attacking certain places based on whether someone legally carrying could stop him.

...
Doesn't that all goes to show that the background checks are not adequate?
...
Also... when was the last time a person with a concealed carry permit stopped a mass killing? Because I can't seem to recall one.

Gern Blansten

Cosmo said:

unsung said:

We don't just hand out guns to anyone, he lived in California which is a anti-gunners dream.

He passed the background checks that everyone here screams for.

California's anti-gun laws also kept these victims defenseless as there are only 52 concealed carry permit holders in that county. This murderers previous statements indicated that he was avoiding attacking certain places based on whether someone legally carrying could stop him.

...
Doesn't that all goes to show that the background checks are not adequate?
...
Also... when was the last time a person with a concealed carry permit stopped a mass killing? Because I can't seem to recall one.

Exactly...

And when someone starts firing at you when you don't expect it a gun does you little good...

Reasonable people don't want to ban guns (except for assault weapons which have absolutely no place in society) they want to make purchasing guns as difficult as possible for the people that intend on misusing them.

i_lov_it

unsung said:

We don't just hand out guns to anyone, he lived in California which is a anti-gunners dream.

He passed the background checks that everyone here screams for.

California's anti-gun laws also kept these victims defenseless as there are only 52 concealed carry permit holders in that county. This murderers previous statements indicated that he was avoiding attacking certain places based on whether someone legally carrying could stop him.

You don't just hand out Guns to anyone you say?...No of course not only Psycho Murderers going on a Killing Spree and He passed all the Background Checks as well like Cosmo said there's something Wrong there.

jmuscatello

Registration and licensing at the federal level..... with license renewal subject to periodic mental health screening

Cosmo

jmuscatello said:

Registration and licensing at the federal level..... with license renewal subject to periodic mental health screening

...
Brilliant!!!
Why can't we just do that?

Cosmo

Gern Blansten said:

Cosmo said:

unsung said:

We don't just hand out guns to anyone, he lived in California which is a anti-gunners dream.

He passed the background checks that everyone here screams for.

California's anti-gun laws also kept these victims defenseless as there are only 52 concealed carry permit holders in that county. This murderers previous statements indicated that he was avoiding attacking certain places based on whether someone legally carrying could stop him.

...
Doesn't that all goes to show that the background checks are not adequate?
...
Also... when was the last time a person with a concealed carry permit stopped a mass killing? Because I can't seem to recall one.

Exactly...

And when someone starts firing at you when you don't expect it a gun does you little good...

Reasonable people don't want to ban guns (except for assault weapons which have absolutely no place in society) they want to make purchasing guns as difficult as possible for the people that intend on misusing them.

...
The thing I don't understand... how is putting more bullets in the air... coming from different directions... with terrified people running in several directions... make us safer?
And how do we know who is the initial shooter, if there are a bunch of people shooting? Wouldn't it add to the confusion?
...
I mean, let's say I have a concealed weapon and a leagal permit to carry it. I see the initial shots and can correctly identify the shooter. I draw my weapon an fire in his direction.
Meanwhile... Mr. Gunrights, who also has a legal permit to carry a weapon, hears the shots (from both guns) and runs towards them hoping to stop the shooting. He rounds the corner and sees my... and put 3 rounds into me.
How to you tell who is the bad guy with a gun... from the good guy with a gun?

unsung

Cosmo said:

unsung said:

We don't just hand out guns to anyone, he lived in California which is a anti-gunners dream.

He passed the background checks that everyone here screams for.

California's anti-gun laws also kept these victims defenseless as there are only 52 concealed carry permit holders in that county. This murderers previous statements indicated that he was avoiding attacking certain places based on whether someone legally carrying could stop him.

...
Doesn't that all goes to show that the background checks are not adequate?
...
Also... when was the last time a person with a concealed carry permit stopped a mass killing? Because I can't seem to recall one.

Ccw holders usually stop crimes from becoming mass killings so I can't tell you because I don't have a crystal ball.

As far as the background checks they did work, his therapist then called the police in a panic saying he was a threat and they visited him. But they did nothing.

PJ_Soul

hedonist said:

I somewhat agree on the pharma front...I mean, which way to go?

Someone needing medication doesn't take it, catastrophic results.

Someone needing medication does take it, with side-effects that could bring catastrophic results.

Someone doesn't need medication but is prescribed (or taking) it...etc.

Someone who is simply, maybe naturally, just utterly fucked up with no emotion, no empathy.

Just don't let people who take those kinds of drugs have guns. That

unsung said:

Cosmo said:

unsung said:

We don't just hand out guns to anyone, he lived in California which is a anti-gunners dream.

He passed the background checks that everyone here screams for.

California's anti-gun laws also kept these victims defenseless as there are only 52 concealed carry permit holders in that county. This murderers previous statements indicated that he was avoiding attacking certain places based on whether someone legally carrying could stop him.

...
Doesn't that all goes to show that the background checks are not adequate?
...
Also... when was the last time a person with a concealed carry permit stopped a mass killing? Because I can't seem to recall one.

Ccw holders usually stop crimes from becoming mass killings so I can't tell you because I don't have a crystal ball.

As far as the background checks they did work, his therapist then called the police in a panic saying he was a threat and they visited him. But they did nothing.

Yup, the cops fucked up big time. Hopefully this event will change their procedures when responding to calls like this. I.e. do a through search of the person's residence and not take them at their word when questioned.

jmuscatello

Cosmo said:

jmuscatello said:

Registration and licensing at the federal level..... with license renewal subject to periodic mental health screening

...
Brilliant!!!
Why can't we just do that?

Because we live in the U!!! S!!!!A!!!!

Gern Blansten

Cosmo said:

Gern Blansten said:

Cosmo said:

unsung said:

We don't just hand out guns to anyone, he lived in California which is a anti-gunners dream.

He passed the background checks that everyone here screams for.

California's anti-gun laws also kept these victims defenseless as there are only 52 concealed carry permit holders in that county. This murderers previous statements indicated that he was avoiding attacking certain places based on whether someone legally carrying could stop him.

...
Doesn't that all goes to show that the background checks are not adequate?
...
Also... when was the last time a person with a concealed carry permit stopped a mass killing? Because I can't seem to recall one.

Exactly...

And when someone starts firing at you when you don't expect it a gun does you little good...

Reasonable people don't want to ban guns (except for assault weapons which have absolutely no place in society) they want to make purchasing guns as difficult as possible for the people that intend on misusing them.

...
The thing I don't understand... how is putting more bullets in the air... coming from different directions... with terrified people running in several directions... make us safer?
And how do we know who is the initial shooter, if there are a bunch of people shooting? Wouldn't it add to the confusion?
...
I mean, let's say I have a concealed weapon and a leagal permit to carry it. I see the initial shots and can correctly identify the shooter. I draw my weapon an fire in his direction.
Meanwhile... Mr. Gunrights, who also has a legal permit to carry a weapon, hears the shots (from both guns) and runs towards them hoping to stop the shooting. He rounds the corner and sees my... and put 3 rounds into me.
How to you tell who is the bad guy with a gun... from the good guy with a gun?

Exactly....and situations like that will happen.

Gern Blansten

PJ_Soul said:

hedonist said:

I somewhat agree on the pharma front...I mean, which way to go?

Someone needing medication doesn't take it, catastrophic results.

Someone needing medication does take it, with side-effects that could bring catastrophic results.

Someone doesn't need medication but is prescribed (or taking) it...etc.

Someone who is simply, maybe naturally, just utterly fucked up with no emotion, no empathy.

Just don't let people who take those kinds of drugs have guns. That

unsung said:

Cosmo said:

unsung said:

We don't just hand out guns to anyone, he lived in California which is a anti-gunners dream.

He passed the background checks that everyone here screams for.

California's anti-gun laws also kept these victims defenseless as there are only 52 concealed carry permit holders in that county. This murderers previous statements indicated that he was avoiding attacking certain places based on whether someone legally carrying could stop him.

...
Doesn't that all goes to show that the background checks are not adequate?
...
Also... when was the last time a person with a concealed carry permit stopped a mass killing? Because I can't seem to recall one.

Ccw holders usually stop crimes from becoming mass killings so I can't tell you because I don't have a crystal ball.

As far as the background checks they did work, his therapist then called the police in a panic saying he was a threat and they visited him. But they did nothing.

Yup, the cops fucked up big time. Hopefully this event will change their procedures when responding to calls like this. I.e. do a through search of the person's residence and not take them at their word when questioned.

Did they really fuck up though? Or was there basically nothing they could do?

PJ_Soul

Gern Blansten said:

Did they really fuck up though? Or was there basically nothing they could do?

They could have searched his place a bit. Pretty sure they had a legal right to or could have gotten a warrant given the therapist's warnings and his behaviour online. If they'd just looked in his bedroom they would have found his guns and probably plenty of other crazy shit. They also could have done an online investigation of what this guy was up to online. That would have set off some alarms too. Instead, they knocked on his door and asked a few questions and decided that the guy whose therapist called the cops on seemed normal enough in their books. That seems like a pretty big fuck up to me.