Lead, Gunpowder and Brass...I don't think there is a shortage of those items and not near as costly either...Problem solved...
So let's do some public executions. Stonings as well. Hell lottery tickets to help participate. Pay per view.
Do we not see how ironic it is we shake our heads in disgust at what happens in fundamentalist Muslim countries but have no problem saying. "He'll let me pull the switch or just use firing squad".
Do we not realize that the rest of the civilized western world looks at us as we do at others.
I know we don't care what others think but in this case it's good to look at the US through others eyes.
We have to rise above our need for vengeance using barbaric means as this case clearly demonstrates. See how I tied it back to the topic.
It doesn't matter how many murderers are put to death in the U.S., I will always shake my head at comparisons with fundament Muslim countries. When women here are being buried to their waists and publicly stoned for the crime of adultery...ADULTERY...only then would the comparison be valid.
It is one thing to be disgusted by these crimes and to call for swift, violent justice. It is quite another when the system breaks down and allows it to happen. The system in Oklahoma broke down. As disgusting as the results were, that is what happened. Let us not pretend the reason this happened was because anyone wanted a violent, public execution. No matter how strong that sentiment might be it is not the designed result of the system we have in place.
I still have a really hard time getting my head around the fact that they couldn't produce a drug to do the job efficiently. How hard would it be to administer a strong sedative followed by a lethal dose of something they know would work?
It's as if Homer Simpson and Barney were handling the operation.
Whoa there! Do you mean Barney the purple dinosaur, Barney Fife, Barney Rubble, Barney Miller or some other Barney? Depending on how you answer may determine whether I'm offended.
Now I'm really offended. He coulda been an astronaut you know. And them are wicked smart dudes and dudettes. He's got enough issues without being dragged in to this mess.
Lead, Gunpowder and Brass...I don't think there is a shortage of those items and not near as costly either...Problem solved...
So let's do some public executions. Stonings as well. Hell lottery tickets to help participate. Pay per view.
Do we not see how ironic it is we shake our heads in disgust at what happens in fundamentalist Muslim countries but have no problem saying. "He'll let me pull the switch or just use firing squad".
Do we not realize that the rest of the civilized western world looks at us as we do at others.
I know we don't care what others think but in this case it's good to look at the US through others eyes.
We have to rise above our need for vengeance using barbaric means as this case clearly demonstrates. See how I tied it back to the topic.
I would say people need to rise above their need to rape and murder women and children.
The opponents of the DP almost always suggest that proponents are acting from emotion with vengeance in mind- that they need to be impartial. Well... what is impartial justice for such a horrific crime? What is a fair punishment for raping and murdering an infant like the idiot that was spared his execution following the debacle? If you are telling me that a fair punishment is, say, 30 years behind bars... I would say to you that it is not I that is being impartial.
It's not 'playing God' deciding who lives and who dies... it's dealing with what's been shoved down our throats in a manner befitting of the crime. These executions- even this horrific one- are infinitely more merciful than the crimes these people have committed: they are not gagged, raped, and tortured to death.
Okay Thirty was trying to keep this related to thread topic but........
We can't control criminals actions but we can control ours. Society should rise above killing. Killing is wrong. Yeah we're going round and round.
Injecting person with poison/killing has no benefits but deteriorating our society. See got thread topic in again.
Injecting people with poison has the benefit of removing dangerous people from our midst. Some would argue that it actually improves our society.
There... two sides presented.
Back to the thread.
Two sides presented huh? Think you were just shooting for the last word.
)
No... I just can't shut up sometimes.
Wolf mentioned he would like to see charges pressed over this incident. Is there a case that could be made against the people who pressed forward without allowing the process to completely take place prior to the execution?
Yeah well think a lot of us on the board are the same in not knowing when to shut up. But that's what keeps the train moving and hell it's fun. Or should be.
As to charges, if it can be proven there was negligence why not. As to punishment, tough one.
I am of two minds on the last meal thing. On one hand, a last meal of his choosing is just one more comfort that this guy did not deserve. On the other, it is also another breakdown in standard operating procedure during an execution that was thoroughly botched.
I won't lose any sleep because this guy didn't get his last meal, but it does raise one more question about the conduct of those charged with carrying out his sentence.
Did he give his victim the opportunity to have a last meal?
That really isn't the point. Plus, I don't personally agree with the idea that those who make and enforce the law should act the same as a vicious murderer who is on death row.
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
Does anyone seriously think that eliminating the death penalty will lower murder rates? Seriously? Somebody said it earlier, when it comes to civil rights, I think America is way ahead of the rest of the world. The 15 people executed a year is not hurting that. Even if all of the executions are botched.
Btw, I remember you Chadwick, your the guy with the beard, right?
Does anyone seriously think that eliminating the death penalty will lower murder rates? Seriously? Somebody said it earlier, when it comes to civil rights, I think America is way ahead of the rest of the world. The 15 people executed a year is not hurting that. Even if all of the executions are botched.
Btw, I remember you Chadwick, your the guy with the beard, right?
I don't think I have ever heard anyone say that eliminating the death penalty would lower murder rates, unless, of course, you count the murders that don't occur because there is nobody being executed (so actually, haha, yeah, eliminating it would lower murder rates after all!). The only thing that I've ever heard people argue, and it's an argument that I make myself, is that the death penalty doesn't lower murder rates, i.e. it doesn't do anything at all as a deterrent. Since it acting as a deterrent is one argument that those who love legalized murder sometimes make, the fact that it doesn't deter murderers at all is an important point.
Also, I would say that having the death penalty as opposed to not having a death penalty hurts a nation's HUMAN rights record very severely. It's one of the first things that the UN and Amnesty International consider when gauging how good human rights are in a country. As far as CIVIL rights go.... that is a big can 'o worms in America to say the least, given all the issues surrounding how many black men are on death row, and how black criminals are much more likely to end up on death row compared to white men who committed the same crime.
Post edited by PJ_Soul on
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
0
Options
hedonist
standing on the edge of forever Posts: 24,524
I don't think I have ever heard anyone ever say that eliminating the death penalty would lower murder rates, unless, of course, you count the murders that don't occur because there is no penalty (so actually, haha, yeah, eliminating it would lower murder rates after all!). The only thing that I've ever heard people argue, and it's an argument that I make myself, is that the death penalty doesn't lower murder rates, i.e. it doesn't do anything at all as a deterrent. Since it acting as a deterrent is one argument that those who love legalized murder sometimes make, the fact that it doesn't deter murderers at all is an important point.
Hey! I resemble that.
Really though, while I support capital punishment I don't "love" it. That's really not a fair assessment to make.
I don't think I have ever heard anyone ever say that eliminating the death penalty would lower murder rates, unless, of course, you count the murders that don't occur because there is no penalty (so actually, haha, yeah, eliminating it would lower murder rates after all!). The only thing that I've ever heard people argue, and it's an argument that I make myself, is that the death penalty doesn't lower murder rates, i.e. it doesn't do anything at all as a deterrent. Since it acting as a deterrent is one argument that those who love legalized murder sometimes make, the fact that it doesn't deter murderers at all is an important point.
Hey! I resemble that.
Really though, while I support capital punishment I don't "love" it. That's really not a fair assessment to make.
Just a turn of phrase really - nothing personal. (but SOME people really do love it!)
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
I am of two minds on the last meal thing. On one hand, a last meal of his choosing is just one more comfort that this guy did not deserve. On the other, it is also another breakdown in standard operating procedure during an execution that was thoroughly botched.
I won't lose any sleep because this guy didn't get his last meal, but it does raise one more question about the conduct of those charged with carrying out his sentence.
Did he give his victim the opportunity to have a last meal?
That really isn't the point. Plus, I don't personally agree with the idea that those who make and enforce the law should act the same as a vicious murderer who is on death row.
It isn't too far removed from the point. Had this murderer stuck to the $15 guideline he would have had his last meal, an opportunity his victims never had. Are we supposed to be upset he didn't get to gorge himself on steak and shrimp?
That his execution was bungled is terrible. That he did not get a final surf n' turf is not.
___________________________________________
"...I changed by not changing at all..."
0
Options
unsung
I stopped by on March 7 2024. First time in many years, had to update payment info. Hope all is well. Politicians suck. Bye. Posts: 9,487
I am of two minds on the last meal thing. On one hand, a last meal of his choosing is just one more comfort that this guy did not deserve. On the other, it is also another breakdown in standard operating procedure during an execution that was thoroughly botched.
I won't lose any sleep because this guy didn't get his last meal, but it does raise one more question about the conduct of those charged with carrying out his sentence.
Did he give his victim the opportunity to have a last meal?
That really isn't the point. Plus, I don't personally agree with the idea that those who make and enforce the law should act the same as a vicious murderer who is on death row.
My point is that I am not sympathetic to his plight. I show him the same regard he gave his victim.
0
Options
unsung
I stopped by on March 7 2024. First time in many years, had to update payment info. Hope all is well. Politicians suck. Bye. Posts: 9,487
Oklahoma prison guards Tasered a defiant Clayton Lockett early Tuesday, and a medical technician had trouble finding a suitable vein for the lethal drugs that eventually killed him that evening, the head of the Corrections Department reported Thursday.
Lockett also deliberately cut his right arm before dawn Tuesday and was treated at a prison hospital, but the wound did not require stitches.
Corrections Department Director Robert Patton made the disclosures in a timeline provided to Gov. Mary Fallin, who ordered a review of the murderer's botched execution. Lockett writhed and convulsed as the three-drug cocktail was being administered, and he ultimately died of a heart attack 43 minutes later.
Patton also recommended that the execution of Charles Warner, originally set for two hours after Lockett's but rescheduled for May 13, be postponed indefinitely.
Patton's timeline details Lockett's final 14 hours. It begins at 5:06 a.m. CT, when a prison "emergency response team" arrives at his cell to escort him for X-rays, and ends at 7:06 p.m., when his is pronounced dead.
After his self-inflicted wound was discovered, three guards then watched him until he was taken to the execution chamber about 5:20 p.m. CT.
Throughout the day, he refused to be restrained, refused to see his lawyers, refused a final tray of food, refused to make a final statement.
After Lockett was strapped down on the execution table, a phlebotomist spent almost 50 minutes seeking a usable vein in his arms, legs, feet or neck, finally inserting the needle into his groin, which was then covered by a sheet to block the view of witnesses.
The first of the three execution drugs — midazolam, a sedative — began flowing at 6:23 p.m. Ten minutes later, after Lockett is declared unconscious, the executioner administers the final two drugs — vecuronium bromide, a muscle relaxant, and potassium chloride, which stops the heart.
Nearly 20 minutes later, a doctor discovered that the vein had collapsed and that the drugs "had either absorbed into tissue, leaked out or both," the report states. The warden then notified Patton, who was told that not enough drugs had been administered to cause death, that no other vein was usable and that not enough of the chemicals remained to complete the execution.
At 6:56 p.m., Patton halted the execution after a doctor reported that Lockett was unconscious and that he detected a faint heartbeat.
At 7:06 p.m., Lockett was pronounced dead after having a heart attack. 61 COMMENT
ok, this raises a valid point here and in other cases. They couldnt find a vein that could handle the needle, what they did find apparently blew out. Its not the first time this has been an issue, this method of punishment being used in this state and others, I wonder what will be put into place so sentence can be carried out.
Death, no matter how it happens, isnt a painfree thing. So to say that medically , being gassed, electrocuted, firing squad is cruel seems to miss the point. DEATH isnt all sunshine and rainbows.
Its funny, we have in some states , assisted suicide. Where do folks stand on that issue? To hear from those providers who help those folks transition to whatever is next are quite clear that death is a painfilled thing.
I foresee a business opportunity for some enterprising person(s). manufacture of these drugs here in the states. Sounds cold and calloused right? Welcome to capitalism.
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
^^^ ??? Not sure how you're connecting euthanasia and the death penalty. Also, yes, the drugs that are given to those in Oregon with the right to die with dignity law do provide the patient with a pain-free death not counting the pain they are escaping from (I guess that's the painful part that you're talking about). They go to sleep and die like that. The drugs that cause the death do not cause any suffering whatsoever.
(and since you ask, I am a HUGE supporter of the right to die with dignity, but I just don't know what the connection between that and capital punishment is; it's not like they can use the same drugs for executions, since those have to be taken orally.... and BTW, yes, absolutely, pharmaceutical companies (forget some free-enterprising individual) will likely manage to make a pretty penny when North America widely adopts assisted suicide, which will be a wonderful day for us all)
Post edited by PJ_Soul on
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
i wonder what the just response is to all these innocent people dying at the hands of US drones strikes?
Wrong thread, no?
yes and no ... yes in that this thread ideally should be about the execution process ... no, in that people here believe that people who commit horrible crimes should suffer ... and i'm pretty sure those people would not support the inhumane suffering of an american army officer ...
i wonder what the just response is to all these innocent people dying at the hands of US drones strikes?
Wrong thread, no?
yes and no ... yes in that this thread ideally should be about the execution process ... no, in that people here believe that people who commit horrible crimes should suffer ... and i'm pretty sure those people would not support the inhumane suffering of an american army officer ...
I think its a cheap shot to say proponents want to see them suffer. I've read multiple opponents of the DP insist prison would be way worse than death... so, if that is actually true, seeking a prison term does not preclude you from wanting to see them suffer too (unless prison isn't befitting of a person who rapes and murders women or children as well).
Poor murderers, eh?
How about we not dignify people like Michael Rafferty by comparing them to our grandparents that died in World War II... or those currently serve somewhere under orders from their country?
i wonder what the just response is to all these innocent people dying at the hands of US drones strikes?
Wrong thread, no?
yes and no ... yes in that this thread ideally should be about the execution process ... no, in that people here believe that people who commit horrible crimes should suffer ... and i'm pretty sure those people would not support the inhumane suffering of an american army officer ...
I think its a cheap shot to say proponents want to see them suffer. I've read multiple opponents of the DP insist prison would be way worse than death... so, if that is actually true, seeking a prison term does not preclude you from wanting to see them suffer too (unless prison isn't befitting of a person who rapes and murders women or children as well).
Poor murderers, eh?
How about we not dignify people like Michael Rafferty by comparing them to our grandparents that died in World War II... or those currently serve somewhere under orders from their country?
dude ... read the thread - I don't really feel like copying and pasting the comments ...
secondly ... you talk so passionately of the anguish the families of victims feel and that those feeling should be taken into consideration when doling out justice ... and now - you want to ignore all the innocent people that have died at the ammo of US army just because they were orders from their country? ...
TB. You may not want them to suffer but reading posts here as well as other sites and talking to associates that are proponents, they do indeed want them to suffer. Think this is a main reason for people supporting death penalty.
i wonder what the just response is to all these innocent people dying at the hands of US drones strikes?
Wrong thread, no?
yes and no ... yes in that this thread ideally should be about the execution process ... no, in that people here believe that people who commit horrible crimes should suffer ... and i'm pretty sure those people would not support the inhumane suffering of an american army officer ...
I think its a cheap shot to say proponents want to see them suffer. I've read multiple opponents of the DP insist prison would be way worse than death... so, if that is actually true, seeking a prison term does not preclude you from wanting to see them suffer too (unless prison isn't befitting of a person who rapes and murders women or children as well).
Poor murderers, eh?
How about we not dignify people like Michael Rafferty by comparing them to our grandparents that died in World War II... or those currently serve somewhere under orders from their country?
dude ... read the thread - I don't really feel like copying and pasting the comments ...
secondly ... you talk so passionately of the anguish the families of victims feel and that those feeling should be taken into consideration when doling out justice ... and now - you want to ignore all the innocent people that have died at the ammo of US army just because they were orders from their country? ...
You made the comment in the post I quoted. I understand the context in which your comment was made.
I'm not supporting war by any stretch of the imagination- it's horrific- but there is a difference between a predator that hunts victims in our streets and a soldier carrying out soldierly duties. This is my only point and I think it stands.
TB. You may not want them to suffer but reading posts here as well as other sites and talking to associates that are proponents, they do indeed want them to suffer. Think this is a main reason for people supporting death penalty.
A main reason? Callen... come on, man. When you say something like this, I get the impression you gloss over any efforts made by the side of the discussion you disagree with.
How about I say a main reason people oppose the DP is because they think every life is valuable and they wish to rehabilitate poor, misunderstood murderers as quickly as possible to give them a second chance in society.
There has been some indifference to the plight of the rapist/murderer who suffered in the botched execution. It's hard to generate any sympathy for a man who rapes a teenager, shoots her, and then buries her alive while clowning around and having a good time with his buddies. But with that said, several proponents for the DP- including me- have lamented the fact that this was handled poorly and was unfortunate.
Proponents have not been giving virtual high fives over this case: "Hey... we wanted suffering and look... right on... we got 'extra' suffering!"
Post edited by Thirty Bills Unpaid on
"My brain's a good brain!"
0
Options
hedonist
standing on the edge of forever Posts: 24,524
TB. You may not want them to suffer but reading posts here as well as other sites and talking to associates that are proponents, they do indeed want them to suffer. Think this is a main reason for people supporting death penalty.
callen, the term "suffer the consequences" comes to mind.
I'm not pro-torture, but I have no issue with someone like the piece of shit who raped and killed an 11-month-old (how, HOW, is that even possible?) having a rough go at the rest of his life.
You made the comment in the post I quoted. I understand the context in which your comment was made.
I'm not supporting war by any stretch of the imagination- it's horrific- but there is a difference between a predator that hunts victims in our streets and a soldier carrying out soldierly duties. This is my only point and I think it stands.
so what is your response to the families that watch their innocent children die a horrific death from bombs? ... sorry ... oh well ... no justice whatsover for you ... what was the US response to 9-11? ... a flat out massacre where way more innocent lives were killed than were lost in 9-11 ...
TB. You may not want them to suffer but reading posts here as well as other sites and talking to associates that are proponents, they do indeed want them to suffer. Think this is a main reason for people supporting death penalty.
A main reason? Callen... come on, man. When you say something like this, I get the impression you gloss over any efforts made by the side of the discussion you disagree with.
How about I say a main reason people oppose the DP is because they think every life is valuable and they wish to rehabilitate poor, misunderstood murderers as quickly as possible to give them a second chance in society.
There has been some indifference to the plight of the rapist/murderer who suffered in the botched execution. It's hard to generate any sympathy for a man who rapes a teenager, shoots her, and then buries her alive while clowning around and having a good time with his buddies. But with that said, several proponents for the DP- including me- have lamented the fact that this was handled poorly and was unfortunate.
Proponents have not been giving virtual high fives over this case: "Hey... we wanted suffering and look... right on... we got 'extra' suffering!"
This Is my opinion and I'll stick to it. Derived from reading lots on DP and talking to many. And how many here dismissed what this dude went through. It's human nature to want revenge and a little pain to go along with it. Strongly believe there are a minority of death proponents that would want a true painless death process. I know it would make one question their motivations but it is what it is.
He shot a 19 year old woman with a sawed off shotgun and then watched as 2 accomplices buried her alive. She happened to walk in on him as he was robbing the house. Who cares what happened to him on the gurney. He did it to himself. Quote
BLACK35 Posts: 13,216 April 30 don't feel sorry for him, what goes around comes around. Glad he suffered Quote
Just from first few posts to this thread and can get millions more
You made the comment in the post I quoted. I understand the context in which your comment was made.
I'm not supporting war by any stretch of the imagination- it's horrific- but there is a difference between a predator that hunts victims in our streets and a soldier carrying out soldierly duties. This is my only point and I think it stands.
so what is your response to the families that watch their innocent children die a horrific death from bombs? ... sorry ... oh well ... no justice whatsover for you ... what was the US response to 9-11? ... a flat out massacre where way more innocent lives were killed than were lost in 9-11 ...
My response is sorrow, but 'my' response means nothing. The response of the embattled is something I might have to brace for though. Retaliation is sure to follow in some form- it can only be one-sided for so long.
TB. You may not want them to suffer but reading posts here as well as other sites and talking to associates that are proponents, they do indeed want them to suffer. Think this is a main reason for people supporting death penalty.
callen, the term "suffer the consequences" comes to mind.
I'm not pro-torture, but I have no issue with someone like the piece of shit who raped and killed an 11-month-old (how, HOW, is that even possible?) having a rough go at the rest of his life.
Oh lotsa pieces of shit but doesn't mean we kill like them.
TB. You may not want them to suffer but reading posts here as well as other sites and talking to associates that are proponents, they do indeed want them to suffer. Think this is a main reason for people supporting death penalty.
callen, the term "suffer the consequences" comes to mind.
I'm not pro-torture, but I have no issue with someone like the piece of shit who raped and killed an 11-month-old (how, HOW, is that even possible?) having a rough go at the rest of his life.
Oh lotsa pieces of shit but doesn't mean we kill like them.
We don't kill like them. Who wishes to rape them, torture them, and bury them alive?
And for the poor guy who killed the 11 month old... how do you kill like him?
TB. You may not want them to suffer but reading posts here as well as other sites and talking to associates that are proponents, they do indeed want them to suffer. Think this is a main reason for people supporting death penalty.
callen, the term "suffer the consequences" comes to mind.
I'm not pro-torture, but I have no issue with someone like the piece of shit who raped and killed an 11-month-old (how, HOW, is that even possible?) having a rough go at the rest of his life.
Oh lotsa pieces of shit but doesn't mean we kill like them.
We don't kill like them. Who wishes to rape them, torture them, and bury them alive?
And for the poor guy who killed the 11 month old... how do you kill like him?
I get what your saying and we've hashed this point to death (HA). Killing is wrong. Cannot be presented as solution to societies problems. Every time we execute someone we are adding to this cycle.
Comments
He had a lot of potential, but his love of beer derailed what was looking like a promising career as an astronaut.
Peace
Libtardaplorable©. And proud of it.
Brilliantati©
As to charges, if it can be proven there was negligence why not. As to punishment, tough one.
Plus, I don't personally agree with the idea that those who make and enforce the law should act the same as a vicious murderer who is on death row.
Btw, I remember you Chadwick, your the guy with the beard, right?
Also, I would say that having the death penalty as opposed to not having a death penalty hurts a nation's HUMAN rights record very severely. It's one of the first things that the UN and Amnesty International consider when gauging how good human rights are in a country. As far as CIVIL rights go.... that is a big can 'o worms in America to say the least, given all the issues surrounding how many black men are on death row, and how black criminals are much more likely to end up on death row compared to white men who committed the same crime.
Really though, while I support capital punishment I don't "love" it. That's really not a fair assessment to make.
(but SOME people really do love it!)
That his execution was bungled is terrible. That he did not get a final surf n' turf is not.
"...I changed by not changing at all..."
There isn't one.
http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2014/05/01/oklahoma-clayton-lockett-execution/8570625/
Oklahoma prison guards Tasered a defiant Clayton Lockett early Tuesday, and a medical technician had trouble finding a suitable vein for the lethal drugs that eventually killed him that evening, the head of the Corrections Department reported Thursday.
Lockett also deliberately cut his right arm before dawn Tuesday and was treated at a prison hospital, but the wound did not require stitches.
Corrections Department Director Robert Patton made the disclosures in a timeline provided to Gov. Mary Fallin, who ordered a review of the murderer's botched execution. Lockett writhed and convulsed as the three-drug cocktail was being administered, and he ultimately died of a heart attack 43 minutes later.
Patton also recommended that the execution of Charles Warner, originally set for two hours after Lockett's but rescheduled for May 13, be postponed indefinitely.
Patton's timeline details Lockett's final 14 hours. It begins at 5:06 a.m. CT, when a prison "emergency response team" arrives at his cell to escort him for X-rays, and ends at 7:06 p.m., when his is pronounced dead.
After his self-inflicted wound was discovered, three guards then watched him until he was taken to the execution chamber about 5:20 p.m. CT.
Throughout the day, he refused to be restrained, refused to see his lawyers, refused a final tray of food, refused to make a final statement.
After Lockett was strapped down on the execution table, a phlebotomist spent almost 50 minutes seeking a usable vein in his arms, legs, feet or neck, finally inserting the needle into his groin, which was then covered by a sheet to block the view of witnesses.
The first of the three execution drugs — midazolam, a sedative — began flowing at 6:23 p.m. Ten minutes later, after Lockett is declared unconscious, the executioner administers the final two drugs — vecuronium bromide, a muscle relaxant, and potassium chloride, which stops the heart.
Nearly 20 minutes later, a doctor discovered that the vein had collapsed and that the drugs "had either absorbed into tissue, leaked out or both," the report states. The warden then notified Patton, who was told that not enough drugs had been administered to cause death, that no other vein was usable and that not enough of the chemicals remained to complete the execution.
At 6:56 p.m., Patton halted the execution after a doctor reported that Lockett was unconscious and that he detected a faint heartbeat.
At 7:06 p.m., Lockett was pronounced dead after having a heart attack.
61 COMMENT
ok, this raises a valid point here and in other cases. They couldnt find a vein that could handle the needle, what they did find apparently blew out. Its not the first time this has been an issue, this method of punishment being used in this state and others, I wonder what will be put into place so sentence can be carried out.
Death, no matter how it happens, isnt a painfree thing. So to say that medically , being gassed, electrocuted, firing squad is cruel seems to miss the point. DEATH isnt all sunshine and rainbows.
Its funny, we have in some states , assisted suicide. Where do folks stand on that issue? To hear from those providers who help those folks transition to whatever is next are quite clear that death is a painfilled thing.
I foresee a business opportunity for some enterprising person(s). manufacture of these drugs here in the states. Sounds cold and calloused right? Welcome to capitalism.
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
(and since you ask, I am a HUGE supporter of the right to die with dignity, but I just don't know what the connection between that and capital punishment is; it's not like they can use the same drugs for executions, since those have to be taken orally.... and BTW, yes, absolutely, pharmaceutical companies (forget some free-enterprising individual) will likely manage to make a pretty penny when North America widely adopts assisted suicide, which will be a wonderful day for us all)
Poor murderers, eh?
How about we not dignify people like Michael Rafferty by comparing them to our grandparents that died in World War II... or those currently serve somewhere under orders from their country?
secondly ... you talk so passionately of the anguish the families of victims feel and that those feeling should be taken into consideration when doling out justice ... and now - you want to ignore all the innocent people that have died at the ammo of US army just because they were orders from their country? ...
I'm not supporting war by any stretch of the imagination- it's horrific- but there is a difference between a predator that hunts victims in our streets and a soldier carrying out soldierly duties. This is my only point and I think it stands.
How about I say a main reason people oppose the DP is because they think every life is valuable and they wish to rehabilitate poor, misunderstood murderers as quickly as possible to give them a second chance in society.
There has been some indifference to the plight of the rapist/murderer who suffered in the botched execution. It's hard to generate any sympathy for a man who rapes a teenager, shoots her, and then buries her alive while clowning around and having a good time with his buddies. But with that said, several proponents for the DP- including me- have lamented the fact that this was handled poorly and was unfortunate.
Proponents have not been giving virtual high fives over this case: "Hey... we wanted suffering and look... right on... we got 'extra' suffering!"
I'm not pro-torture, but I have no issue with someone like the piece of shit who raped and killed an 11-month-old (how, HOW, is that even possible?) having a rough go at the rest of his life.
Quote
BLACK35 Posts: 13,216
April 30
don't feel sorry for him, what goes around comes around. Glad he suffered
Quote
Just from first few posts to this thread and can get millions more
And for the poor guy who killed the 11 month old... how do you kill like him?
"...I changed by not changing at all..."