Grazing fees that didn't exist when they started using the land, right?
... Wasn't land management caused by things such as over grazing by ranchers? Perhaps, if Mr. Bundy managed the 160 acres of private property he actually owns... he wouldn't need to graze on an property that is not privately held by him. What is Mr. Bundy doing with the 160 arces he owns?
It was supposed to work that way only too many big ranchers have had too many politicians in their pocket for too long. Imagine that! Same thing with mining outfits. Screw the land, buy off the politicians, rake in the dough and then bitch like hell when someone finally says , "enough".
“The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
Grazing fees that didn't exist when they started using the land, right?
... Wasn't land management caused by things such as over grazing by ranchers? Perhaps, if Mr. Bundy managed the 160 acres of private property he actually owns... he wouldn't need to graze on an property that is not privately held by him. What is Mr. Bundy doing with the 160 arces he owns?
Keeping it lush for his personal enjoyment. I wonder how he'd feel if 2000 folks wanted to show up and say host a BBQ keg party with live music on his 160 acres. Maybe a 3 month rave or lollapalooza. I wonder what his argument would be? Its private property, get off my land. Well sir, get your cows off MY land and pay your back grazing fees, thief.
Ever hear of the dust bowl? Ever wonder how water was captured and regulated so deserts could become the bread basket of America? Thank the big bad oppressive Government. What a bunch of ungrateful selfish welfare leeches.
Grazing fees that didn't exist when they started using the land, right?
"Lets begin with a bit of history.
The area known as the Bunkerville Allotment came into the possession of the United States when it was ceded to us by Mexico at the end of the Mexican-American war. Most of the land in Nevada is still owned by the Federal government, including that area, basically because people didn’t move there and buy it when the Federal government was willing to sell it. As a result, and because Nevada could not afford that much land (and didn’t want to own and therefore be responsible for a bunch of empty desert, anyway), it remained in the hands of the Federal government.
In 1934, Congress passed the Taylor Grazing Act (TGA). It allowed farmers to graze on many areas of Federal lands, provided that they got a permit and paid a fee.
In 1954 or thereabouts, Cliven Bundy and his father began grazing their cattle in the Bunkerville Allotment, paying the fee and keeping up the proper permits to do so.
(Cosmo notes: If I do my math right... 1954 minus 1934... equals... carry the... no... **erase-erase-erase*... ah, 20! It was 20 years AFTER the permits were required. That means... if I did the math correctly... that the establishment of permit use for grazing in the Bunkerville allotment was there... BEFORE the bundys used that land for grazing. So, YES... the Grazing Fees DID exist before the Bundys started using the land.... er... NO, the Grazing Fees didn't not exist before 1954... if the truth is that 1932 comes before 1954.)."
And please, please, don't insult me with the bs of the anarchy that would ensure if the Feds stayed out of this. We are both smarter than that.
Remember when everything sucked and the government solved all of our problems? Me neither.
You don't think that there are inherent problems with people being 'selective' with regards to which laws they think they should comply with and which laws they shouldn't?
You give people way too much credit.
Correct me if I'm wrong but weren't you one of those that gave me a hard time for being a prepper?
I mean in a collapse of society will people be good or will there be people who will try to take using force?
I'm saying in a complete collapse there would be problems, and that is unlike what would happen if the Feds became limited to the Constitution.
And please, please, don't insult me with the bs of the anarchy that would ensure if the Feds stayed out of this. We are both smarter than that.
Remember when everything sucked and the government solved all of our problems? Me neither.
You don't think that there are inherent problems with people being 'selective' with regards to which laws they think they should comply with and which laws they shouldn't?
You give people way too much credit.
Correct me if I'm wrong but weren't you one of those that gave me a hard time for being a prepper?
I mean in a collapse of society will people be good or will there be people who will try to take using force?
I'm saying in a complete collapse there would be problems, and that is unlike what would happen if the Feds became limited to the Constitution.
I could have been- but not with any malice. If you are feeling like you need to prepare for an impending disaster, that is your prerogative. I'd also say that to live life preparing for a societal meltdown is not- to my way of thinking- living life as it is intended.
What does it have to do with my post you quoted though? If people followed rules and regulations... the 'impending collapse' you fear will likely be thwarted. Anarchy is achieved when law and order fails to exist. When the government enforces the laws of the land... it is doing its part to prevent the bleak scenario you claim you are preparing for. You should be supportive of such measures.
And as he has stated the BLM, or it's predecessor, used to do things for those fees and now they don't or haven't for some time.
... I thought Mr. Bundy CHOSE to not renew his permit because The Bureau of Land Management was "Managing the Land" by limiting the number of cattle each rancher was allowed to graze on the public property. So, the fees for land mangement went to managing the land. It sounds like Mr. Bundy 'believes' that he should be allowed to have as many cows on that land as he wants. ... Think of it like this... you like to go camping, right? Well, so do I. But, just because i purchase a camping permit... it does not mean I can use up the whole campground for myself. I get an allotment for one site, which typically carries a limit on the number of vehicles i can park in the campgound. I cannot buy one permit, and bring 55 trucks to the site.
Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
Hail, Hail!!!
And please, please, don't insult me with the bs of the anarchy that would ensure if the Feds stayed out of this. We are both smarter than that. Remember when everything sucked and the government solved all of our problems? Me neither.
You don't think that there are inherent problems with people being 'selective' with regards to which laws they think they should comply with and which laws they shouldn't? You give people way too much credit.
Correct me if I'm wrong but weren't you one of those that gave me a hard time for being a prepper? I mean in a collapse of society will people be good or will there be people who will try to take using force? I'm saying in a complete collapse there would be problems, and that is unlike what would happen if the Feds became limited to the Constitution.
I could have been- but not with any malice. If you are feeling like you need to prepare for an impending disaster, that is your prerogative. I'd also say that to live life preparing for a societal meltdown is not- to my way of thinking- living life as it is intended.
What does it have to do with my post you quoted though? If people followed rules and regulations... the 'impending collapse' you fear will likely be thwarted. Anarchy is achieved when law and order fails to exist. When the government enforces the laws of the land... it is doing its part to prevent the bleak scenario you claim you are preparing for. You should be supportive of such measures.
... I don't think anyone here has a problem with disaster preparedness. In fact, i believe we all FAVOR being prepared for localized natural disasters, such as Hurricanes, Tornadoes, Earthquakes, etc...
But, we also think that only crazy people store up arms and supplies for a Zombie Apocalypse, Alien Invasion and Extinction Level Event.
Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
Hail, Hail!!!
And as he has stated the BLM, or it's predecessor, used to do things for those fees and now they don't or haven't for some time.
The fees are a steal, and its a "user fee" not a charge for a service.
... Yes. It is the same thing you get when you pay for a camping permit. It fees go for land management... ie. any source water, fire pits, Tables/benches and a littl plot where you can set up your encampment. The permit does not allow you to cut down trees or clear brush (or let your damn cows get fat on the vegitation so you can sell them for a higher market price) to fit your wants.
Post edited by Cosmo on
Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
Hail, Hail!!!
I'm not reading all this shit but I'm well acquainted with bunkerville and having lived in Nevada and Utah I'm well acquainted with the dumbfucks screaming about the "Feds." I'll guaran-fucking-tee you Mr. Bundy just doesn't like sharing any of his sizeable fortune. Buncha dumb asses.
If I had known then what I know now...
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EV LA1 08
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brianlux
Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 40,750
I'm not reading all this shit but I'm well acquainted with bunkerville and having lived in Nevada and Utah I'm well acquainted with the dumbfucks screaming about the "Feds." I'll guaran-fucking-tee you Mr. Bundy just doesn't like sharing any of his sizeable fortune. Buncha dumb asses.
Pretty good summation, imalive, that could of saved us several pages on this thread. :-)
“The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
And please, please, don't insult me with the bs of the anarchy that would ensure if the Feds stayed out of this. We are both smarter than that. Remember when everything sucked and the government solved all of our problems? Me neither.
You don't think that there are inherent problems with people being 'selective' with regards to which laws they think they should comply with and which laws they shouldn't? You give people way too much credit.
Correct me if I'm wrong but weren't you one of those that gave me a hard time for being a prepper? I mean in a collapse of society will people be good or will there be people who will try to take using force? I'm saying in a complete collapse there would be problems, and that is unlike what would happen if the Feds became limited to the Constitution.
I could have been- but not with any malice. If you are feeling like you need to prepare for an impending disaster, that is your prerogative. I'd also say that to live life preparing for a societal meltdown is not- to my way of thinking- living life as it is intended.
What does it have to do with my post you quoted though? If people followed rules and regulations... the 'impending collapse' you fear will likely be thwarted. Anarchy is achieved when law and order fails to exist. When the government enforces the laws of the land... it is doing its part to prevent the bleak scenario you claim you are preparing for. You should be supportive of such measures.
... I don't think anyone here has a problem with disaster preparedness. In fact, i believe we all FAVOR being prepared for localized natural disasters, such as Hurricanes, Tornadoes, Earthquakes, etc...
But, we also think that only crazy people store up arms and supplies for a Zombie Apocalypse, Alien Invasion and Extinction Level Event.
Again, not to get to far off topic, but I think we can all agree that disaster preparedness is very sensible.
As for breakdown of civilization preparedness, some of the most sensible things I've heard on that topic are from a couple of Richard Heinberg's books in which he talks about how in those times people who work together in a cooperative manner will fair far better individual survivalists or small bands of thuggish survivalists no matter how well they are armed. In his book The Party's Over he says:
The strategy of individualist survivalism wil likely offer only temporary and uncertain refuge... True individual and family security will come only with community solidarity and interdependence. p. 234
A lot of this is explained in detail in this book as well as in Power Down and Peak Everything.
Heinberg's books are good reads with good information and good advices.
“The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
I'm not reading all this shit but I'm well acquainted with bunkerville and having lived in Nevada and Utah I'm well acquainted with the dumbfucks screaming about the "Feds." I'll guaran-fucking-tee you Mr. Bundy just doesn't like sharing any of his sizeable fortune. Buncha dumb asses.
this
and this asshat riding around holding an american flag is truly offensive
I'm not reading all this shit but I'm well acquainted with bunkerville and having lived in Nevada and Utah I'm well acquainted with the dumbfucks screaming about the "Feds." I'll guaran-fucking-tee you Mr. Bundy just doesn't like sharing any of his sizeable fortune. Buncha dumb asses.
this
and this asshat riding around holding an american flag is truly offensive
Eh not offensive. Hell America was founded on lying and steeling land.
Okay everybody sing with me. "This land is your land, this land is my land......."
I'm not reading all this shit but I'm well acquainted with bunkerville and having lived in Nevada and Utah I'm well acquainted with the dumbfucks screaming about the "Feds." I'll guaran-fucking-tee you Mr. Bundy just doesn't like sharing any of his sizeable fortune. Buncha dumb asses.
this
and this asshat riding around holding an american flag is truly offensive
Eh not offensive. Hell America was founded on lying and steeling land.
Okay everybody sing with me. "This land is your land, this land is my land......."
I see you've been hitting the gin and tonics already, Callen. ;-)
“The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
I'm not reading all this shit but I'm well acquainted with bunkerville and having lived in Nevada and Utah I'm well acquainted with the dumbfucks screaming about the "Feds." I'll guaran-fucking-tee you Mr. Bundy just doesn't like sharing any of his sizeable fortune. Buncha dumb asses.
this
and this asshat riding around holding an american flag is truly offensive
Eh not offensive. Hell America was founded on lying and steeling land.
Okay everybody sing with me. "This land is your land, this land is my land......."
... As I went walking I saw a sign there And on the sign it said "No Trespassing." But on the other side it didn't say nothing, That side was made for you and me.
This land is your land, this land is my land From California to the New York Island From the redwood forests to the Gulf Stream waters. This land was made for you and me.
In the shadow of the steeple I saw my people, By the relief office I seen my people; As they stood there hungry, I stood there asking Is this land made for you and me? ... Note: Those are the actual lyrics that Woody Guthrie wrote... but never made it to the schools songbooks. It just didn't seem right that the little school kids should be singing about reality.
Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
Hail, Hail!!!
Again, not to get to far off topic, but I think we can all agree that disaster preparedness is very sensible.
As for breakdown of civilization preparedness, some of the most sensible things I've heard on that topic are from a couple of Richard Heinberg's books in which he talks about how in those times people who work together in a cooperative manner will fair far better individual survivalists or small bands of thuggish survivalists no matter how well they are armed. In his book The Party's Over he says:
The strategy of individualist survivalism wil likely offer only temporary and uncertain refuge... True individual and family security will come only with community solidarity and interdependence. p. 234
A lot of this is explained in detail in this book as well as in Power Down and Peak Everything.
Heinberg's books are good reads with good information and good advices.
... I would hope to believe that in case of a disaster... I would share with those people seeking water and a bite to eat. Every disaster eventually passes. We cannot call ourselves a civilization, if we are not civil towards each other.
Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
Hail, Hail!!!
I'm not reading all this shit but I'm well acquainted with bunkerville and having lived in Nevada and Utah I'm well acquainted with the dumbfucks screaming about the "Feds." I'll guaran-fucking-tee you Mr. Bundy just doesn't like sharing any of his sizeable fortune. Buncha dumb asses.
this
and this asshat riding around holding an american flag is truly offensive
Eh not offensive. Hell America was founded on lying and steeling land.
Okay everybody sing with me. "This land is your land, this land is my land......."
I see you've been hitting the gin and tonics already, Callen. ;-)
I'm not reading all this shit but I'm well acquainted with bunkerville and having lived in Nevada and Utah I'm well acquainted with the dumbfucks screaming about the "Feds." I'll guaran-fucking-tee you Mr. Bundy just doesn't like sharing any of his sizeable fortune. Buncha dumb asses.
this
and this asshat riding around holding an american flag is truly offensive
Eh not offensive. Hell America was founded on lying and steeling land.
Okay everybody sing with me. "This land is your land, this land is my land......."
An interesting point. People are mad about the USA stealing lands from the native Americans. And some people are not mad about the USA stealing lands from the native Americans.
Now someone is trying to steal lands away from the USA and thus the irony in opinions.
I'm not reading all this shit but I'm well acquainted with bunkerville and having lived in Nevada and Utah I'm well acquainted with the dumbfucks screaming about the "Feds." I'll guaran-fucking-tee you Mr. Bundy just doesn't like sharing any of his sizeable fortune. Buncha dumb asses.
this
and this asshat riding around holding an american flag is truly offensive
Eh not offensive. Hell America was founded on lying and steeling land.
Okay everybody sing with me. "This land is your land, this land is my land......."
I see you've been hitting the gin and tonics already, Callen. ;-)
Well asked for single tall but believe I was served a double tall. HA.
mickeyrat
up my ass, like Chadwick was up his Posts: 35,835
edited April 2014
hasnt paid in twenty years? Hmm, kinda coincides with a decline in beef consumption AND prices in the early to mid nineties. reaching its lowest point in 98.
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
And maybe the other 52 made a wise business decision? Oh, the efficiencies of the market economy. Nice, now get your cattle of MY land and pay your back grazing fees, Mr. Bundy.
He said he would continue holding a daily news conference; on Saturday, it drew one reporter and one photographer, so Mr. Bundy used the time to officiate at what was in effect a town meeting with supporters, discussing, in a long, loping discourse, the prevalence of abortion, the abuses of welfare and his views on race.
“I want to tell you one more thing I know about the Negro,” he said. Mr. Bundy recalled driving past a public-housing project in North Las Vegas, “and in front of that government house the door was usually open and the older people and the kids — and there is always at least a half a dozen people sitting on the porch — they didn’t have nothing to do. They didn’t have nothing for their kids to do. They didn’t have nothing for their young girls to do.
“And because they were basically on government subsidy, so now what do they do?” he asked. “They abort their young children, they put their young men in jail, because they never learned how to pick cotton. And I’ve often wondered, are they better off as slaves, picking cotton and having a family life and doing things, or are they better off under government subsidy? They didn’t get no more freedom. They got less freedom.”
another conservative racist with a cause glorified by fox news....
seriously, the REAL conservatives out there need to reign people like this in. if you keep giving them a platform the gop will never ever win the white house again.
There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man; true nobility is being superior to your former self.- Hemingway
Comments
Ever hear of the dust bowl? Ever wonder how water was captured and regulated so deserts could become the bread basket of America? Thank the big bad oppressive Government. What a bunch of ungrateful selfish welfare leeches.
Peace.
Libtardaplorable©. And proud of it.
Brilliantati©
The area known as the Bunkerville Allotment came into the possession of the United States when it was ceded to us by Mexico at the end of the Mexican-American war. Most of the land in Nevada is still owned by the Federal government, including that area, basically because people didn’t move there and buy it when the Federal government was willing to sell it. As a result, and because Nevada could not afford that much land (and didn’t want to own and therefore be responsible for a bunch of empty desert, anyway), it remained in the hands of the Federal government.
In 1934, Congress passed the Taylor Grazing Act (TGA). It allowed farmers to graze on many areas of Federal lands, provided that they got a permit and paid a fee.
In 1954 or thereabouts, Cliven Bundy and his father began grazing their cattle in the Bunkerville Allotment, paying the fee and keeping up the proper permits to do so.
(Cosmo notes: If I do my math right... 1954 minus 1934... equals... carry the... no... **erase-erase-erase*... ah, 20! It was 20 years AFTER the permits were required. That means... if I did the math correctly... that the establishment of permit use for grazing in the Bunkerville allotment was there... BEFORE the bundys used that land for grazing.
So, YES... the Grazing Fees DID exist before the Bundys started using the land.... er... NO, the Grazing Fees didn't not exist before 1954... if the truth is that 1932 comes before 1954.)."
ref. http://therenaissancemillenial.wordpress.com/2014/04/17/cliven-bundy
Hail, Hail!!!
Correct me if I'm wrong but weren't you one of those that gave me a hard time for being a prepper?
I mean in a collapse of society will people be good or will there be people who will try to take using force?
I'm saying in a complete collapse there would be problems, and that is unlike what would happen if the Feds became limited to the Constitution.
What does it have to do with my post you quoted though? If people followed rules and regulations... the 'impending collapse' you fear will likely be thwarted. Anarchy is achieved when law and order fails to exist. When the government enforces the laws of the land... it is doing its part to prevent the bleak scenario you claim you are preparing for. You should be supportive of such measures.
I thought Mr. Bundy CHOSE to not renew his permit because The Bureau of Land Management was "Managing the Land" by limiting the number of cattle each rancher was allowed to graze on the public property. So, the fees for land mangement went to managing the land.
It sounds like Mr. Bundy 'believes' that he should be allowed to have as many cows on that land as he wants.
...
Think of it like this... you like to go camping, right? Well, so do I. But, just because i purchase a camping permit... it does not mean I can use up the whole campground for myself. I get an allotment for one site, which typically carries a limit on the number of vehicles i can park in the campgound. I cannot buy one permit, and bring 55 trucks to the site.
Hail, Hail!!!
I don't think anyone here has a problem with disaster preparedness. In fact, i believe we all FAVOR being prepared for localized natural disasters, such as Hurricanes, Tornadoes, Earthquakes, etc...
But, we also think that only crazy people store up arms and supplies for a Zombie Apocalypse, Alien Invasion and Extinction Level Event.
Hail, Hail!!!
Yes. It is the same thing you get when you pay for a camping permit. It fees go for land management... ie. any source water, fire pits, Tables/benches and a littl plot where you can set up your encampment.
The permit does not allow you to cut down trees or clear brush (or let your damn cows get fat on the vegitation so you can sell them for a higher market price) to fit your wants.
Hail, Hail!!!
Vegas 93, Vegas 98, Vegas 00 (10 year show), Vegas 03, Vegas 06
VIC 07
EV LA1 08
Seattle1 09, Seattle2 09, Salt Lake 09, LA4 09
Columbus 10
EV LA 11
Vancouver 11
Missoula 12
Portland 13, Spokane 13
St. Paul 14, Denver 14
As for breakdown of civilization preparedness, some of the most sensible things I've heard on that topic are from a couple of Richard Heinberg's books in which he talks about how in those times people who work together in a cooperative manner will fair far better individual survivalists or small bands of thuggish survivalists no matter how well they are armed. In his book The Party's Over he says:
The strategy of individualist survivalism wil likely offer only temporary and uncertain refuge... True individual and family security will come only with community solidarity and interdependence. p. 234
A lot of this is explained in detail in this book as well as in Power Down and Peak Everything.
Heinberg's books are good reads with good information and good advices.
and this asshat riding around holding an american flag is truly offensive
Okay everybody sing with me. "This land is your land, this land is my land......."
As I went walking I saw a sign there
And on the sign it said "No Trespassing."
But on the other side it didn't say nothing,
That side was made for you and me.
This land is your land, this land is my land
From California to the New York Island
From the redwood forests to the Gulf Stream waters.
This land was made for you and me.
In the shadow of the steeple I saw my people,
By the relief office I seen my people;
As they stood there hungry, I stood there asking
Is this land made for you and me?
...
Note: Those are the actual lyrics that Woody Guthrie wrote... but never made it to the schools songbooks. It just didn't seem right that the little school kids should be singing about reality.
Hail, Hail!!!
I would hope to believe that in case of a disaster... I would share with those people seeking water and a bite to eat. Every disaster eventually passes. We cannot call ourselves a civilization, if we are not civil towards each other.
Hail, Hail!!!
Now someone is trying to steal lands away from the USA and thus the irony in opinions.
http://beefmagazine.com/blog/us-beef-industry-has-measured-every-challenge
http://pods.dasnr.okstate.edu/docushare/dsweb/Get/Document-2859/AGEC-603web.pdf
http://www.employmentpolicy.org/sites/www.employmentpolicy.org/files/When Chickens Devoured Cows October 26 2012.pdf
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
Peace
Libtardaplorable©. And proud of it.
Brilliantati©
I had much more that I deleted.
Just wow.
He was a fighter,
a fearless and mighty adventurin' man!
Oh no... wait, that was Jim Bowie. Ooops! #-o
Peace.
Libtardaplorable©. And proud of it.
Brilliantati©
another conservative racist with a cause glorified by fox news....
seriously, the REAL conservatives out there need to reign people like this in. if you keep giving them a platform the gop will never ever win the white house again.
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."