Pearl Jam limited edition chrome Pono Player

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Comments

  • whoyouare72
    whoyouare72 Chicago IL Posts: 2,183
    my point is that you can still enjoy your records at home and then when you're on the road you can listen to high quality vinyl rips instead of CDs or your iPod.
  • demetrios
    demetrios Posts: 97,912
    Project Update #24: Clarifications Regarding Update #23 & the PonoPlayer Design
    Posted by the PonoMusic Team Black heart (cards) Like
    Clarification about the PonoPlayer Output Impedance

    Some have expressed concerns about the output impedance of the PonoPlayer being 5 ohms. It is important to note that it is trivial to make the output impedance arbitrarily low -- simply add more and more and more feedback. The problem is that this will make the player sound worse, not better!

    All products designed by Ayre (since its inception 21 years ago) have no negative feedback. This results in a more natural sound because feedback can only attempt to correct for an error after it has occurred -- clearly an impossibility. If negative feedback actually worked as people claim, then all products would sound the same because the negative feedback would eliminate the errors. But not all amplifiers sound the same, so feedback is clearly not the answer!

    The reason that output impedance is somewhat important is that the impedance of headphones almost always vary with frequency. If the output impedance of the headphone driver circuit is too high, then there will be a voltage divider action between the impedance of the headphone and the output impedance of the headphone amplifier that results in audible frequency response errors.

    Now, to some extent this is meaningless as all headphones have inherent frequency response errors anyway. It may be that some headphones (through sheer luck) may produce an overall flatter frequency response with an amplifier that has a high output impedance. But luck and hope are not good ways to design things.

    Instead, the goal it to reduce the output impedance to a point that is low enough that there are no meaningful frequency response errors with almost any headphone on the market. In the real world this means that the output impedance of a headphone amplifier should be less than about 10 ohms or so. Lower impedances will result in lower frequency response errors due to the interaction between the output impedance of the headphone amplifier and the headphone impedance itself. But lowering the output impedance through the use of feedback will introduce new sonic problems that are much worse than the original problem.

    The only other way to reduce the output impedance of the headphone amplifier is to increase the idle current in the amplifier circuit. This is fine for a home stereo where there is virtually unlimited power available from any wall socket. But a portable player is a different animal altogether. Increasing the idle current of the amplifier will obviously shorten the battery life of the device. The art of engineering is the art of compromise. And when you have a chance to listen to the PonoPlayer, we promise that you will be more than happy with the choices we have made.

    The 5 ohm output impedance of the PonoPlayer is the best overall compromise which minimizes interactions between the headphone amplifier and the headphone while maintaining good battery life, and completely avoiding the sonic problems created by the use of negative feedback. Thanks for reading this, and thanks for your questions.
    Correction about Converters

    The Ayre QA-9 ANALOG-TO-DIGITAL converter uses a moving average design with no undershoot, overshoot, and ringing but not the digital-to-analog converter in Ayre products.
  • whoyouare72
    whoyouare72 Chicago IL Posts: 2,183
    MedozK said:


    Vinyl vs. Digital

    Pono will make their money through the hardware. Digital is still Digital.

    no this is analog -> digital and then conversion back to analog.

    The high quality flacs come from original studio or high resolution analog sources. The technology of high resolution FLACs made from the very high quality analog source and then the software on pono converts that back into analog and nothing is lost using this new pono so its not digital. I will never use my pono at home (why would I? I have my record collection to spin at home!) but on the road it will be awesome. I have a nice sound system in my car.
  • MedozK
    MedozK Tennessee Posts: 9,212
    whoyouare72 said:

    MedozK said:


    Vinyl vs. Digital

    Pono will make their money through the hardware. Digital is still Digital.

    no this is analog -> digital and then conversion back to analog.

    The high quality flacs come from original studio or high resolution analog sources. The technology of high resolution FLACs made from the very high quality analog source and then the software on pono converts that back into analog and nothing is lost using this new pono so its not digital. I will never use my pono at home (why would I? I have my record collection to spin at home!) but on the road it will be awesome. I have a nice sound system in my car.
    I understand. I'm just not a big enough audiophile to take advantage of it. I'm sure a lot of people will dig this thing.
  • whoyouare72
    whoyouare72 Chicago IL Posts: 2,183
    edited April 2014
    Greatplainsman... said:

    It makes digital worth it. You get all the conveniences of digital and quality studio sound better than vinyl. If thats a niche, I'm in!

    This is NOT digital! Well they are digital files that get converted back to analog so i guess i see your point. BUT nothing can beat the sound of a well-mixed analog vinyl made from the original analog studio source!
    Post edited by whoyouare72 on
  • Jex
    Jex Posts: 295
    Just named a foo fighter still one left.
    "Mine is mine and yours won't take its place.."
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  • camaros
    camaros Posts: 1,003
    edited April 2014
    Zod said:



    I'm guessing that they're looking to turn a profit on the hardware. What it comes down to is most people use Smartphones to listen to music. Smartphones have a wide variety of things they need to be able to do. In order to keep costs down certain parts aren't the best part they can be. IE the DAC (digital to analog convertor) is middle of the road on most phones.

    There's already a Niche market for high end music players. Cowon is a company amongst several that make them. You don't need HD Flac to benefit from a higher quality music player.

    People seem to think the PONO would only benefit those wanting to use HD Flac files. I'm willing to bet that a standard CD quality flac would sound a great deal better on a PONO than a smartphone. That's why I still use a separate music player. My 4 year old Cowon S9 still plays music much better than modern smartphones. I don't need to buy digital music, I make FLAC rips of my cd's.

    99% agree!!! =D>
    (-1% only because I don't own a Cowon S9)
    I wish I was able to make this much sense so quickly during a debate I was having last night on pono's success/worth/purpose/future. Some people think they'd have to rebuy their whole music collection, in addition to keeping their fingers crossed that their favorite bands will release studio quality files with the ponomusic store... Which simply isn't true as Zod and many others have already stated. I love the fact that Pono doesn't have built in speakers... because quality is only as good as the hardware you use throughout the system. Unfortunately, we have become accustom to having an evening of music emanate from an smartphone dropped into a Solo cup. When we all should in fact be using Dixie® cups for their higher sonic fidelity... IMO
    Post edited by camaros on
    i like sound...
  • Greatplainsman...
    Greatplainsman... Posts: 842
    100% disagree. Have u ever tried a glass coffee cup? It's what the audiophiles use :-/
    IT'S EVOLUTION BABY!!!!!
  • Thirty Bills Unpaid
    Thirty Bills Unpaid Posts: 16,881
    Greatplainsman... said:

    100% disagree. Have u ever tried a glass coffee cup? It's what the audiophiles use :-/

    For clarification, what are you disagreeing with? As well... I'd be pretending if I said I understand your glass coffee cup analogy?
    "My brain's a good brain!"
  • 2-feign-reluctance
    2-feign-reluctance TigerTown, USA Posts: 23,462
    I remember my parents had glass cups for coffee. So what?
    www.cluthelee.com
  • Jason P
    Jason P Posts: 19,334
    Holy crapballs! PTM 5 Rogers 3
    Be Excellent To Each Other
    Party On, Dudes!
  • given2fly23
    given2fly23 Evanston, IL Posts: 6,042
    Haha, listening to music on a smartphone. So ridiculous.

    http://www.movieweb.com/movie/i-love-you-man/prepare-to-be-rushified





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  • JB128716
    JB128716 Posts: 2,064
    Jason P said:

    Holy crapballs! PTM 5 Rogers 3

    Looks like Kenny Rogers knows when to hold them, knows when to fold them, knows when to walk away, and knows when to run.

    It's time to run Kenny... It's time to Run.

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  • PJ_Soul
    PJ_Soul Vancouver, BC Posts: 50,779
    I have no idea what's going on, but I hate glass coffee cups because they make the coffee go cold faster in my imagination and i would never use my phone as an mp3 player.
    With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
  • Thirty Bills Unpaid
    Thirty Bills Unpaid Posts: 16,881
    PJ_Soul said:

    I have no idea what's going on, but I hate glass coffee cups because they make the coffee go cold faster in my imagination and i would never use my phone as an mp3 player.

    But think if they were limited edition, signature inscribed, Pearl Jam glass coffee mugs. Just think.
    "My brain's a good brain!"
  • PP193448
    PP193448 Here Posts: 4,282
    Petition to rerelease the glass coffee mugs!!!
    2006 Clev,Pitt; 2008 NY MSGx2; 2010 Columbus; 2012 Missoula; 2013 Phoenix,Vancouver,Seattle; 2014 Cincy; 2016 Lex, Wrigley 1&2; 2018 Wrigley 1&2; 2022 Louisville
  • darthvedder
    darthvedder Posts: 2,680
    Wow, $400 buy-in and the player's design isn't even finished yet? That takes some faith. Looking at comparable products, I like this one:

    http://fiio.com.cn/products/index.aspx?ID=100000055517771&MenuID=105026016

    Runs $50 cheaper than Pono. Dual expansion slots...even works as an external DAC. Pono doesn't do that.
  • 2-feign-reluctance
    2-feign-reluctance TigerTown, USA Posts: 23,462
    Will be watching this thread as the year unfolds. Want to hear from a board member, not some unsuspecting teenager or someone famous (or even Ed to be honest).
    www.cluthelee.com
  • PJammer4life
    PJammer4life Los Angeles Posts: 2,672
    Agree with 2-Feign-reluctance. I am happy some of you are so exited to have a PJ edition, but @ $400 I would like to see the reviews and not purchase blindly. If everything is amazing, it might be time to go Pono in the car instead of my 160 GB Ipod Classic. I listen to vinyl @ home, and even less with a toddler, so this would be a car add on. Mp3s do sound flat. I hope it is something great, I would then just buy a basic black one in the future. I don't care about the PJ engraving , just like the PJ IPOD before was no big deal. In the end, it's about the music. I love the band, but I am no longer a walking billboard for them. I would be just as stoked to have a black Pono to play high quality music as a PJ engraved one.
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  • camaros
    camaros Posts: 1,003
    You just hurt all our "walking billboards" feelings... If this keyboard had a middle finger button I'd press it now. So I guess you never wear pearl jam t-shirts either? I bow down to your almightiness...
    PJammer4life said:

    Agree with 2-Feign-reluctance. I am happy some of you are so exited to have a PJ edition, but @ $400 I would like to see the reviews and not purchase blindly. If everything is amazing, it might be time to go Pono in the car instead of my 160 GB Ipod Classic. I listen to vinyl @ home, and even less with a toddler, so this would be a car add on. Mp3s do sound flat. I hope it is something great, I would then just buy a basic black one in the future. I don't care about the PJ engraving , just like the PJ IPOD before was no big deal. In the end, it's about the music. I love the band, but I am no longer a walking billboard for them. I would be just as stoked to have a black Pono to play high quality music as a PJ engraved one.

    i like sound...

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