Arizona Seeks To Pass Anti-Gay Bill

backseatLover12

Kat said:

With all the new technology and how it's so much easier to connect with all kinds of people, it becomes more important, imho, to not paint groups/types of people with the same brush. Categorizing people based on a single characteristic is not a good thing. People are very complicated...this forum is an example. Yes you. It's something everyone should work on every single day...to not be judgmental, etc. Being tolerant is a very good thing to work on...again, imho.

My question as I was watching the press coverage of this veto is...who's bill was this? Who wrote it. Who co-signed on to it? I want names...specific names...not just "Republicans." Carry on.

I was wondering that too. But you can bet your bottom dollar that it was a republican regardless. The party of fear.

gimmesometruth27

issues like this are why our country's politics are so fucked up.

we have one party that consistently votes not only against any sort of progress, and in cases like this, votes to regress us back to an earlier, stupider age. this party consistently votes in favor of legal discrimination under the false claim that some "freedom" that they feel is in jeopardy. they vote to make voting more difficult for the sick, poor etc. they vote to cut taxes instead of addressing the real issues that matter, such as discrimination. the other party wastes all of its time and resourses trying to keep the first party from taking us backwards. this is why we can never move forward on anything. this is why most of the rest of the world laughs at us.

Cosmo

Godfather. said:

Cosmo said:

...
Just to set the record straight... I do not agree with racism or biggotry. I have little or no respect for those types of viewpoints or opinions. And YES, it degrades my respect for the person who carries those beliefs.
I'm not saying I approve of racism or biggotry others harbor.. i'm just saying that it is better that the person is at least, honest with me in his/her racist and/or biggoted views. It allows me to process future comments closer to the truth.
For example, the next time someone tries to tell me what a great guy they are and how they care about everyone... I'll know that is not true.
So, it't not a matter of agreeing with the viewpoints or the opinions or the person... it is just appreciating the fact that they are making their racism/biggotry clear to me.... so i can react accordingly.

sooooo it's o.k to to be a bigot towards bigotry in which case you would also be a bigot also right ?....ya gotta love the way things work in life LOL!!!!!

Godfather.

...
No, sir. It is not as simple as you see it... trying to equate one with the other. Life issues are more complicated than that and require a higher level of critical thought.
You are not a class of people and I do not harbor utter intolerance towards you as a person. You are an individual that harbors biggoted viewpoints... just like Rev. Phelps is an individual that shares your same views.
It does not mean i believe you and Rev. Phelps to be lesser beings and should be denied rights granted to us... simply humans with opinions i do not respect nor agree with... whatever your justification.

Cosmo

Kat said:

With all the new technology and how it's so much easier to connect with all kinds of people, it becomes more important, imho, to not paint groups/types of people with the same brush. Categorizing people based on a single characteristic is not a good thing. People are very complicated...this forum is an example. Yes you. It's something everyone should work on every single day...to not be judgmental, etc. Being tolerant is a very good thing to work on...again, imho.

My question as I was watching the press coverage of this veto is...who's bill was this? Who wrote it. Who co-signed on to it? I want names...specific names...not just "Republicans." Carry on.

...
The thing is... people have a narrow, stereotypical characiture of Gays and Lesbians. They only see them as those guys dancing on Gay Pride parade floats and bull dykes on Harley Sportsters. They believe they can 'tell' whether someone is gay or not, just by looking at them.
...
Here is what you are asking for:
HB 2153
Introduced by Representatives Farnsworth E, Allen, Boyer, Coleman, Gowan, Gray, Kavanagh, Kwasman, Lesko, Livingston, Montenegro, Petersen, Pierce J, Smith, Thorpe, Tobin, Townsend: Barton, Mesnard, Mitchell

SB 1062
Introduced by Senators Yarbrough: Barto, Worsley

polaris_x

Kat said:

With all the new technology and how it's so much easier to connect with all kinds of people, it becomes more important, imho, to not paint groups/types of people with the same brush. Categorizing people based on a single characteristic is not a good thing. People are very complicated...this forum is an example. Yes you. It's something everyone should work on every single day...to not be judgmental, etc. Being tolerant is a very good thing to work on...again, imho.

My question as I was watching the press coverage of this veto is...who's bill was this? Who wrote it. Who co-signed on to it? I want names...specific names...not just "Republicans." Carry on.

bill was pushed by the Centre For Arizona Policy ... your standard conservative "think" tank ... pushing your new wave of conservative intolerance ...

chadwick

Kat said:

With all the new technology and how it's so much easier to connect with all kinds of people, it becomes more important, imho, to not paint groups/types of people with the same brush. Categorizing people based on a single characteristic is not a good thing. People are very complicated...this forum is an example. Yes you. It's something everyone should work on every single day...to not be judgmental, etc. Being tolerant is a very good thing to work on...again, imho.

My question as I was watching the press coverage of this veto is...who's bill was this? Who wrote it. Who co-signed on to it? I want names...specific names...not just "Republicans." Carry on.

now you're speaking my kinda language, kat! this is ass kickery time like big time
how dare a politician have these kinds of ideas & morals? talk about taking advantage of their position & taking full advantage of the people. these political leaders (if we can call them leaders) deserve to be removed from their duties ASAP

Godfather.

Cosmo said:

Godfather. said:

Cosmo said:

...
Just to set the record straight... I do not agree with racism or biggotry. I have little or no respect for those types of viewpoints or opinions. And YES, it degrades my respect for the person who carries those beliefs.
I'm not saying I approve of racism or biggotry others harbor.. i'm just saying that it is better that the person is at least, honest with me in his/her racist and/or biggoted views. It allows me to process future comments closer to the truth.
For example, the next time someone tries to tell me what a great guy they are and how they care about everyone... I'll know that is not true.
So, it't not a matter of agreeing with the viewpoints or the opinions or the person... it is just appreciating the fact that they are making their racism/biggotry clear to me.... so i can react accordingly.

sooooo it's o.k to to be a bigot towards bigotry in which case you would also be a bigot also right ?....ya gotta love the way things work in life LOL!!!!!

Godfather.

...
No, sir. It is not as simple as you see it... trying to equate one with the other. Life issues are more complicated than that and require a higher level of critical thought.
You are not a class of people and I do not harbor utter intolerance towards you as a person. You are an individual that harbors biggoted viewpoints... just like Rev. Phelps is an individual that shares your same views.
It does not mean i believe you and Rev. Phelps to be lesser beings and should be denied rights granted to us... simply humans with opinions i do not respect nor agree with... whatever your justification.

have you ever read anything I've posted that used the word hate ? I have been very firm on my stance of not AGREEING with homosexuality and I have said it's something I want nothing to do with but if others are good with it that's great for them and from the start the train members attack with words like bigot....all these good harted people that are willing to lower their standards of a pure life and thought to attack people that don't agree with them and their view of homosexuals....a little back asswords in my opinion,and really man I don't need anybody to respect or agree with my opinion or as you say my justification, I don't hurt homo's or attack them verbaly ...some on here are none the better being very judgemental
and that's the train way I guess.

Godfather.

Kat

polaris_x said:

bill was pushed by the Centre For Arizona Policy ... your standard conservative "think" tank ... pushing your new wave of conservative intolerance ...

Thank you. It's all rather confusing when you visit their site and they state they want "Religious liberty is affirmed and protected, free from government interference." but they want the government to pass laws that interfere with other people, other citizens, other Americans. sigh. I'm a firm believer in separation of church and state. And thank you for those specific names, Cosmo.

PJ_Soul

Godfather. said:

Cosmo said:

Godfather. said:

Cosmo said:

...
Just to set the record straight... I do not agree with racism or biggotry. I have little or no respect for those types of viewpoints or opinions. And YES, it degrades my respect for the person who carries those beliefs.
I'm not saying I approve of racism or biggotry others harbor.. i'm just saying that it is better that the person is at least, honest with me in his/her racist and/or biggoted views. It allows me to process future comments closer to the truth.
For example, the next time someone tries to tell me what a great guy they are and how they care about everyone... I'll know that is not true.
So, it't not a matter of agreeing with the viewpoints or the opinions or the person... it is just appreciating the fact that they are making their racism/biggotry clear to me.... so i can react accordingly.

sooooo it's o.k to to be a bigot towards bigotry in which case you would also be a bigot also right ?....ya gotta love the way things work in life LOL!!!!!

Godfather.

...
No, sir. It is not as simple as you see it... trying to equate one with the other. Life issues are more complicated than that and require a higher level of critical thought.
You are not a class of people and I do not harbor utter intolerance towards you as a person. You are an individual that harbors biggoted viewpoints... just like Rev. Phelps is an individual that shares your same views.
It does not mean i believe you and Rev. Phelps to be lesser beings and should be denied rights granted to us... simply humans with opinions i do not respect nor agree with... whatever your justification.

have you ever read anything I've posted that used the word hate ? I have been very firm on my stance of not AGREEING with homosexuality and I have said it's something I want nothing to do with but if others are good with it that's great for them and from the start the train members attack with words like bigot....all these good harted people that are willing to lower their standards of a pure life and thought to attack people that don't agree with them and their view of homosexuals....a little back asswords in my opinion,and really man I don't need anybody to respect or agree with my opinion or as you say my justification, I don't hurt homo's or attack them verbaly ...some on here are none the better being very judgemental
and that's the train way I guess.

Godfather.

Again, there is no "disagreeing" with sexual orientation. It's the same as "disagreeing" with someone's gender or skin colour. You not being willing to engage in conversation with a person because they're gay? That's bigotry. You supporting people who want to refuse service to people because they're gay? That's bigotry. Discrimination. You seem to not know that.... but that doesn't make it untrue. Also, your attitude and those of others like you hurt gay people. Your attitude is what's robbing them of equality in this world. But I'm glad you're not going around attacking them.
BTW, what does "I want nothing to do with homosexuality" mean?? How exactly do you think you'll be involved with homosexuality if you just treat gays like everyone else or have a conversation with them in a coffee shop?

Everything you've said is very depressing. It's pretty clear that you truly just don't get it. It's almost like someone gave you a drug that makes you incapable of connecting the dots on this issue. I suspect you never will get it, which is why it's so depressing.... but I will hold out hope for you anyway.

polaris_x

Kat said:

polaris_x said:

bill was pushed by the Centre For Arizona Policy ... your standard conservative "think" tank ... pushing your new wave of conservative intolerance ...

Thank you. It's all rather confusing when you visit their site and they state they want "Religious liberty is affirmed and protected, free from government interference." but they want the government to pass laws that interfere with other people, other citizens, other Americans. sigh. I'm a firm believer in separation of church and state. And thank you for those specific names, Cosmo.

it's confusing because you are applying what is referred to as "common sense" or "logic" or "critical thinking" ... these organizations are only interested in pushing their agenda ... it's not that they don't understand that their idea of religious liberty or freedom actually infringes on another person's rights ... it's simply that they choose to ignore that fact ... it's how all of us rationalize our existence in a world that is grossly unfair ...

Cosmo

Godfather. said:

Cosmo said:

...
No, sir. It is not as simple as you see it... trying to equate one with the other. Life issues are more complicated than that and require a higher level of critical thought.
You are not a class of people and I do not harbor utter intolerance towards you as a person. You are an individual that harbors biggoted viewpoints... just like Rev. Phelps is an individual that shares your same views.
It does not mean i believe you and Rev. Phelps to be lesser beings and should be denied rights granted to us... simply humans with opinions i do not respect nor agree with... whatever your justification.

have you ever read anything I've posted that used the word hate ? I have been very firm on my stance of not AGREEING with homosexuality and I have said it's something I want nothing to do with but if others are good with it that's great for them and from the start the train members attack with words like bigot....all these good harted people that are willing to lower their standards of a pure life and thought to attack people that don't agree with them and their view of homosexuals....a little back asswords in my opinion,and really man I don't need anybody to respect or agree with my opinion or as you say my justification, I don't hurt homo's or attack them verbaly ...some on here are none the better being very judgemental
and that's the train way I guess.

Godfather.

...
Well... there you go again, jumping to false conclusions.
You are confusing disrespect for you as a person with disrespecting you view... they are two different things. i can still respect you as a person, while disrespecting your view.
All i'm saying is that I do not agree with intolerance... against any class of people, be it Gays or Jews or Muslims or Blacks or Christians or whatever. I don't care if you or anyone else is intolerant towards others, it is just an opinion i do not agree with and cannot respect. That's it. It's that simple.
No need to get all defensive about it. You don't like Gay people... I get it. Neither does Rev. phelps... i get that, too. You each have different rationalizations to base your opininons on... yours being, 'They just ain't your cup of tea', Rev. Phelps' being, 'Because the Bible says so'. Different rationalizations.. same results.
Your trying to use a simple reversal on this by trying to say I am the same as you because i do not agree with your opinion. They do not equate because I am not intolerant towards you. I am willing to sit down and discuss topics with you, as another human being, rather than writing you off, just because of who your are.
And I am not judging you... you freely admited your opinion and I am disagreeing with it. That opinion does not command respect from me... i don't care if it comes from you or Rev. Phelps or anyone else that has that same opinion.
....
Also, sir... if you harbor biggoted views, I'm sorry, but you are a biggot by definition. As an example, It would be the same thing if i told you I don't like Jews... then got angry because people call me and Anti-Semite. That's what people who don't like Jews are... Anti-Semites. If I don't like Jews, then I am an Anti-Semite by definition of the term. If I'm so hung up on being cast as an Anti-Semite, i should stop doing the things that Anti-Semites do. It's that simple.
I hope that clarifies matters.

chadwick

i can be somewhat friendly to just about anyone. gay people have not ever hurt me & i've never hurt them. straight men & women have hurt me & i have hurt them. gay folks seem to have a lot of sympathy & other kinds of kindness just piling up in heaps. gay men have been very amusing & i've laughed quite hard with them as the onesi know are hilarious

i feel for them as this is a fight everyday.

i would not hesitate to help out a gay person. they are a person. they bleed. they eat & sleep, work & relax just like everyone else. as a matter of fact, one of my co-drivers in the semi truck sure as heck thought he was a gay man. he was in his mid 20's & disowned by his father. he was a virgin at the time & confided in me. he was never attracted to girls in school & never attracted to women as a adult. he is attracted to men.

not one time did we ever make each other feel uncomfortable & we lived in a 18 wheeler for quite some time together. we taught each other different views. mostly i think i taught him to strap up your bootlaces & kick ass & if you feel you wanna oral a guy who's into that, go for it!

"btw, you're dad is an idiot" - me

EarlWelsh

Cosmo said:

Godfather. said:

Cosmo said:

...
No, sir. It is not as simple as you see it... trying to equate one with the other. Life issues are more complicated than that and require a higher level of critical thought.
You are not a class of people and I do not harbor utter intolerance towards you as a person. You are an individual that harbors biggoted viewpoints... just like Rev. Phelps is an individual that shares your same views.
It does not mean i believe you and Rev. Phelps to be lesser beings and should be denied rights granted to us... simply humans with opinions i do not respect nor agree with... whatever your justification.

have you ever read anything I've posted that used the word hate ? I have been very firm on my stance of not AGREEING with homosexuality and I have said it's something I want nothing to do with but if others are good with it that's great for them and from the start the train members attack with words like bigot....all these good harted people that are willing to lower their standards of a pure life and thought to attack people that don't agree with them and their view of homosexuals....a little back asswords in my opinion,and really man I don't need anybody to respect or agree with my opinion or as you say my justification, I don't hurt homo's or attack them verbaly ...some on here are none the better being very judgemental
and that's the train way I guess.

Godfather.

...
Well... there you go again, jumping to false conclusions.
You are confusing disrespect for you as a person with disrespecting you view... they are two different things. i can still respect you as a person, while disrespecting your view.
All i'm saying is that I do not agree with intolerance... against any class of people, be it Gays or Jews or Muslims or Blacks or Christians or whatever. I don't care if you or anyone else is intolerant towards others, it is just an opinion i do not agree with and cannot respect. That's it. It's that simple.
No need to get all defensive about it. You don't like Gay people... I get it. Neither does Rev. phelps... i get that, too. You each have different rationalizations to base your opininons on... yours being, 'They just ain't your cup of tea', Rev. Phelps' being, 'Because the Bible says so'. Different rationalizations.. same results.
Your trying to use a simple reversal on this by trying to say I am the same as you because i do not agree with your opinion. They do not equate because I am not intolerant towards you. I am willing to sit down and discuss topics with you, as another human being, rather than writing you off, just because of who your are.
And I am not judging you... you freely admited your opinion and I am disagreeing with it. That opinion does not command respect from me... i don't care if it comes from you or Rev. Phelps or anyone else that has that same opinion.
....
Also, sir... if you harbor biggoted views, I'm sorry, but you are a biggot by definition. As an example, It would be the same thing if i told you I don't like Jews... then got angry because people call me and Anti-Semite. That's what people who don't like Jews are... Anti-Semites. If I don't like Jews, then I am an Anti-Semite by definition of the term. If I'm so hung up on being cast as an Anti-Semite, i should stop doing the things that Anti-Semites do. It's that simple.
I hope that clarifies matters.

Cosmo, you're the best, man...haha. Seriously, though...always respectful in sharing your well-thought-out opinions. It's a joy wasting time on a message board with you.

PJ_Soul

Cosmo said:

Godfather. said:

Cosmo said:

...
No, sir. It is not as simple as you see it... trying to equate one with the other. Life issues are more complicated than that and require a higher level of critical thought.
You are not a class of people and I do not harbor utter intolerance towards you as a person. You are an individual that harbors biggoted viewpoints... just like Rev. Phelps is an individual that shares your same views.
It does not mean i believe you and Rev. Phelps to be lesser beings and should be denied rights granted to us... simply humans with opinions i do not respect nor agree with... whatever your justification.

have you ever read anything I've posted that used the word hate ? I have been very firm on my stance of not AGREEING with homosexuality and I have said it's something I want nothing to do with but if others are good with it that's great for them and from the start the train members attack with words like bigot....all these good harted people that are willing to lower their standards of a pure life and thought to attack people that don't agree with them and their view of homosexuals....a little back asswords in my opinion,and really man I don't need anybody to respect or agree with my opinion or as you say my justification, I don't hurt homo's or attack them verbaly ...some on here are none the better being very judgemental
and that's the train way I guess.

Godfather.

...
Well... there you go again, jumping to false conclusions.
You are confusing disrespect for you as a person with disrespecting you view... they are two different things. i can still respect you as a person, while disrespecting your view.
All i'm saying is that I do not agree with intolerance... against any class of people, be it Gays or Jews or Muslims or Blacks or Christians or whatever. I don't care if you or anyone else is intolerant towards others, it is just an opinion i do not agree with and cannot respect. That's it. It's that simple.
No need to get all defensive about it. You don't like Gay people... I get it. Neither does Rev. phelps... i get that, too. You each have different rationalizations to base your opininons on... yours being, 'They just ain't your cup of tea', Rev. Phelps' being, 'Because the Bible says so'. Different rationalizations.. same results.
Your trying to use a simple reversal on this by trying to say I am the same as you because i do not agree with your opinion. They do not equate because I am not intolerant towards you. I am willing to sit down and discuss topics with you, as another human being, rather than writing you off, just because of who your are.
And I am not judging you... you freely admited your opinion and I am disagreeing with it. That opinion does not command respect from me... i don't care if it comes from you or Rev. Phelps or anyone else that has that same opinion.
....
Also, sir... if you harbor biggoted views, I'm sorry, but you are a biggot by definition. As an example, It would be the same thing if i told you I don't like Jews... then got angry because people call me and Anti-Semite. That's what people who don't like Jews are... Anti-Semites. If I don't like Jews, then I am an Anti-Semite by definition of the term. If I'm so hung up on being cast as an Anti-Semite, i should stop doing the things that Anti-Semites do. It's that simple.
I hope that clarifies matters.

Do you really not care if people are intolerant of others Cosmo?? I do. A lot. People being intolerant of others is the main problem..... and the main fight is to try and promote tolerance of others. It actually seems like the most important thing to care about, since it's the intolerance that causes the inequality in the first place. From what you say, you DO care if people are intolerant of others.... so I'm wondering if you're just saying that in some kind of effort to be diplomatic?

chadwick

yeah cosmo is a real good dude.

i gotta say that i am let down & saddened... godfather, how can i (or we) help you help yourself? to me it is like those who are nazis. if you are up for a learning experience & a change of old ways, go befriend some gay men. i know you can do it.

EarlWelsh

chadwick said:

yeah cosmo is a real good dude.

i gotta say that i am let down & saddened... godfather, how can i (or we) help you help yourself? to me it is like those who are nazis. if you are up for a learning experience & a change of old ways, go befriend some gay men. i know you can do it.

But what if they hit on him or look at him funny? Won't he turn gay as well? Ewwww.... @-)

backseatLover12

I don't think it's fair that everyone is ganging up on Godfather, especially since he was honest in sharing his viewpoint.

No one is going to change his mind. Not if you plead, not if you reason and especially not if you bully him (PJ_Soul, that's you).

polaris_x

i'm pretty sure godfather is happy with who he is and has no interest in changing ... haha

PJ_Soul

backseatLover12 said:

I don't think it's fair that everyone is ganging up on Godfather, especially since he was honest in sharing his viewpoint.

No one is going to change his mind. Not if you plead, not if you reason and especially not if you are bully him (PJ_Soul, that's you).

I don't feel like I'm bullying him, but I'm not surprised you think I am.

EarlWelsh

PJ_Soul said:

backseatLover12 said:

I don't think it's fair that everyone is ganging up on Godfather, especially since he was honest in sharing his viewpoint.

No one is going to change his mind. Not if you plead, not if you reason and especially not if you are bully him (PJ_Soul, that's you).

I don't feel like I'm bullying him, but I'm not surprised you think I am.

You're not, for the record.