i agree... ganging up stinks. i would hope i am decent & fair. yes i throw out some twisted humor & can be ridiculous
What does ganging up mean? I'm pretty sure no one here is PMing each other before posting or anything and organizing a gang. Everyone except GF has basically the same opinion. Is that what ganging up is??
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
... Well... there you go again, jumping to false conclusions. You are confusing disrespect for you as a person with disrespecting you view... they are two different things. i can still respect you as a person, while disrespecting your view. All i'm saying is that I do not agree with intolerance... against any class of people, be it Gays or Jews or Muslims or Blacks or Christians or whatever. I don't care if you or anyone else is intolerant towards others, it is just an opinion i do not agree with and cannot respect. That's it. It's that simple. No need to get all defensive about it. You don't like Gay people... I get it. Neither does Rev. phelps... i get that, too. You each have different rationalizations to base your opininons on... yours being, 'They just ain't your cup of tea', Rev. Phelps' being, 'Because the Bible says so'. Different rationalizations.. same results. Your trying to use a simple reversal on this by trying to say I am the same as you because i do not agree with your opinion. They do not equate because I am not intolerant towards you. I am willing to sit down and discuss topics with you, as another human being, rather than writing you off, just because of who your are. And I am not judging you... you freely admited your opinion and I am disagreeing with it. That opinion does not command respect from me... i don't care if it comes from you or Rev. Phelps or anyone else that has that same opinion. .... Also, sir... if you harbor biggoted views, I'm sorry, but you are a biggot by definition. As an example, It would be the same thing if i told you I don't like Jews... then got angry because people call me and Anti-Semite. That's what people who don't like Jews are... Anti-Semites. If I don't like Jews, then I am an Anti-Semite by definition of the term. If I'm so hung up on being cast as an Anti-Semite, i should stop doing the things that Anti-Semites do. It's that simple. I hope that clarifies matters.
Do you really not care if people are intolerant of others Cosmo?? I do. A lot. People being intolerant of others is the main problem..... and the main fight is to try and promote tolerance of others. It actually seems like the most important thing to care about, since it's the intolerance that causes the inequality in the first place. From what you say, you DO care if people are intolerant of others.... so I'm wondering if you're just saying that in some kind of effort to be diplomatic?
... No, i don't care. I understand that people grow up and live under different circumstances than me. I'm not saying I agree with or respect such views, but i can't say I know under what circumstances they grew up in... so, i don't know the real story. I have learned, through life's experiences, that i need to get to know the person, regardless of what he or she may look like. Some people will write off people, just because of how they appear... i think they end up missing out on a lot of life's lessons. And yes, whether the person is tolerant of all or intolerant of others, it changes my opinion of them... based upon what they show me. For example, I don't care for Rev. Phelps, based solely on the words he says... I think i would be able to handle a debate with him... but, I have a good suspecion that I would be drowned out by his increasing volume and inability to listen to any voice, other than his own. Does that mean I like him? Nope. I dispise the message he carries in his heart and it weighs heavy on my lack of respect for him, as a person. When I do encounter someone who is intolerant, I express my perspective of tolerance. That's really, all I can do. If they choose the path on only hearing their own voice in a discussion... I know it is not worth my effort. I guess I suppose that I like to give everyone the benefit of the doubt... and let them prove to me who they really are. Then, it is up to me on how to handle it.
Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
Hail, Hail!!!
many against one & things are said that may not be swell, back & forth, back & forth. like when pan was here. as i gave reflection i felt bad. she was ganged up on & she definetly gave her views on topics & whatnot. it was complete bullshit & all the time
... Well... there you go again, jumping to false conclusions. You are confusing disrespect for you as a person with disrespecting you view... they are two different things. i can still respect you as a person, while disrespecting your view. All i'm saying is that I do not agree with intolerance... against any class of people, be it Gays or Jews or Muslims or Blacks or Christians or whatever. I don't care if you or anyone else is intolerant towards others, it is just an opinion i do not agree with and cannot respect. That's it. It's that simple. No need to get all defensive about it. You don't like Gay people... I get it. Neither does Rev. phelps... i get that, too. You each have different rationalizations to base your opininons on... yours being, 'They just ain't your cup of tea', Rev. Phelps' being, 'Because the Bible says so'. Different rationalizations.. same results. Your trying to use a simple reversal on this by trying to say I am the same as you because i do not agree with your opinion. They do not equate because I am not intolerant towards you. I am willing to sit down and discuss topics with you, as another human being, rather than writing you off, just because of who your are. And I am not judging you... you freely admited your opinion and I am disagreeing with it. That opinion does not command respect from me... i don't care if it comes from you or Rev. Phelps or anyone else that has that same opinion. .... Also, sir... if you harbor biggoted views, I'm sorry, but you are a biggot by definition. As an example, It would be the same thing if i told you I don't like Jews... then got angry because people call me and Anti-Semite. That's what people who don't like Jews are... Anti-Semites. If I don't like Jews, then I am an Anti-Semite by definition of the term. If I'm so hung up on being cast as an Anti-Semite, i should stop doing the things that Anti-Semites do. It's that simple. I hope that clarifies matters.
Do you really not care if people are intolerant of others Cosmo?? I do. A lot. People being intolerant of others is the main problem..... and the main fight is to try and promote tolerance of others. It actually seems like the most important thing to care about, since it's the intolerance that causes the inequality in the first place. From what you say, you DO care if people are intolerant of others.... so I'm wondering if you're just saying that in some kind of effort to be diplomatic?
... No, i don't care. I understand that people grow up and live under different circumstances than me. I'm not saying I agree with or respect such views, but i can't say I know under what circumstances they grew up in... so, i don't know the real story. I have learned, through life's experiences, that i need to get to know the person, regardless of what he or she may look like. Some people will write off people, just because of how they appear... i think they end up missing out on a lot of life's lessons. And yes, whether the person is tolerant of all or intolerant of others, it changes my opinion of them... based upon what they show me. For example, I don't care for Rev. Phelps, based solely on the words he says... I think i would be able to handle a debate with him... but, I have a good suspecion that I would be drowned out by his increasing volume and inability to listen to any voice, other than his own. Does that mean I like him? Nope. I dispise the message he carries in his heart and it weighs heavy on my lack of respect for him, as a person. When I do encounter someone who is intolerant, I express my perspective of tolerance. That's really, all I can do. If they choose the path on only hearing their own voice in a discussion... I know it is not worth my effort. I guess I suppose that I like to give everyone the benefit of the doubt... and let them prove to me who they really are. Then, it is up to me on how to handle it.
I guess we just have different definitions of caring.... To me, everything you said tells me that you do care, aside from the fact that you say you don't. I definitely agree with giving people the benefit of the doubt.... although not quite sure how it applies to the conversation.
Post edited by PJ_Soul on
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
many against one & things are said that may not be swell, back & forth, back & forth. like when pan was here. as i gave reflection i felt bad. she was ganged up on & she definetly gave her views on topics & whatnot. it was complete bullshit & all the time
I dunno - GF expressed his views, and I expressed mine. What's the difference?
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
I don't think it's fair that everyone is ganging up on Godfather, especially since he was honest in sharing his viewpoint.
No one is going to change his mind. Not if you plead, not if you reason and especially not if you are bully him (PJ_Soul, that's you).
I don't feel like I'm bullying him, but I'm not surprised you think I am.
And you call everything you've said to him… nice??
No, who said that? Is everything you've said to me nice?? I didn't know there were only two options - bullying and nice. Huh.
What exactly do you call what you were attempting to do to him? From what you wrote, you were trying to make him admit that he's a bigot because of the definition of the word homophobe. That's being a bully. Not to mention that you are intolerant of him because you want him to be tolerant of others… "like you".
Do you really not care if people are intolerant of others Cosmo?? I do. A lot. People being intolerant of others is the main problem..... and the main fight is to try and promote tolerance of others. It actually seems like the most important thing to care about, since it's the intolerance that causes the inequality in the first place. From what you say, you DO care if people are intolerant of others
I don't think it's fair that everyone is ganging up on Godfather, especially since he was honest in sharing his viewpoint.
No one is going to change his mind. Not if you plead, not if you reason and especially not if you are bully him (PJ_Soul, that's you).
I don't feel like I'm bullying him, but I'm not surprised you think I am.
And you call everything you've said to him… nice??
No, who said that? Is everything you've said to me nice?? I didn't know there were only two options - bullying and nice. Huh.
What exactly do you call what you were attempting to do to him? From what you wrote, you were trying to make him admit that he's a bigot because of the definition of the word homophobe. That's being a bully.
What do you mean trying to make him admit he's a bigot/? He admitted he's a bigot, and then I jumped in to discuss. He willingly participated in a convo about what homophobia means (you yourself posted the definition of the word and proved him wrong in his interpretation of it, and showed that he is indeed homophobic!). I made a case against what he was saying. The only reason you are calling me a bully is because you have a problem with me in general..... I mean, you are a lot closer to bullying me than I am to bullying GF. Why not take Kat's original advice and just ignore me, rather than derailing threads by picking on me?
Post edited by PJ_Soul on
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
brewer will veto this bill. she gave up the fight against obamacare exchanges when faced with threats of economic consequences. this bill will be terrible for businesses in the state. the bottom line is money talks and bullshit walks. people start losing money, the republicans are gonna pay the price for passing this bill.
i called the greater phoenix chamber of commerce and told them that i will never spend another dollar in arizona if this is signed into law and the lady told me that the greater phoenix chamber of commerce opposes the law.
if a chamber of commerce opposes a law, you know it is a terrible law.
brewer can go down in history books as the governor who vetoed this bill, or she can be the one who signed the bill into law. i don't know why she is taking so long to decide. i mean, if fox news anchors oppose the law, how long does it take a republican governor to change her stance on it??? seriously....
you may want to rephrase that comment ... ) Unless you have drastically changed in the last couple months, I woudl bet there is very little that you agree with any chamber of commerce on Case in point, they opposed the shit out of The Affordable Care Act
It is hard to explain how I feel about bills like this. I find it sad that there are those that would refuse service to anyone based on biological factors. It would be like refusing service to those with Downs Syndrome, Cerebral Palsy, or Cancer...
Using a religion, where "Judge not lest ye be judged" is one of its main tennants, to discriminate and judge others based on their "lifestyles" is the very epitome of hypocrisy. I am so sorry that Sam Clemens isn't alive today. I would love to get his take on all of this nonsense... I am pretty sure Huck Finn's dad is the perfect representative for the fake "conservatives" of today. If you don't know who his pappy was you may want to refresh your memory because he was a simple minded moron ... Someone who makes people who oppose bigger gov't look like assholes.
Fuckers have ruined any chance there ever was to shrink gov't At this point President Obama could piss on the constitution while quoting Marx and punching pregnant women in the belly and I would still rather have him in charge than letting the morons who elect anyone who votes for and supports people who think up and pass bills like this...how are you going to pervert the first amendment like this...
that’s right! Can’t we all just get together and focus on our real enemies: monogamous gays and stem cells… - Ned Flanders
It is terrifying when you are too stupid to know who is dumb
- Joe Rogan
I don't think it's fair that everyone is ganging up on Godfather, especially since he was honest in sharing his viewpoint.
No one is going to change his mind. Not if you plead, not if you reason and especially not if you are bully him (PJ_Soul, that's you).
I don't feel like I'm bullying him, but I'm not surprised you think I am.
And you call everything you've said to him… nice??
No, who said that? Is everything you've said to me nice?? I didn't know there were only two options - bullying and nice. Huh.
What exactly do you call what you were attempting to do to him? From what you wrote, you were trying to make him admit that he's a bigot because of the definition of the word homophobe. That's being a bully.
What do you mean trying to make him admit he's a bigot/? He admitted he's a bigot, and then I jumped in to discuss. He willingly participated in a convo about what the word means. I made a case against what he was saying. The only reason you are calling me a bully is because you have a problem with me in general..... I mean, you are a lot closer to bullying me than I am to bullying GF. Why not take Kat's original advice and just ignore me, rather than derailing threads by picking on me?
Not so. Re-read your words and see how you're being quite pushy.
I don't think it's fair that everyone is ganging up on Godfather, especially since he was honest in sharing his viewpoint.
No one is going to change his mind. Not if you plead, not if you reason and especially not if you are bully him (PJ_Soul, that's you).
I don't feel like I'm bullying him, but I'm not surprised you think I am.
And you call everything you've said to him… nice??
No, who said that? Is everything you've said to me nice?? I didn't know there were only two options - bullying and nice. Huh.
What exactly do you call what you were attempting to do to him? From what you wrote, you were trying to make him admit that he's a bigot because of the definition of the word homophobe. That's being a bully.
What do you mean trying to make him admit he's a bigot/? He admitted he's a bigot, and then I jumped in to discuss. He willingly participated in a convo about what the word means. I made a case against what he was saying. The only reason you are calling me a bully is because you have a problem with me in general..... I mean, you are a lot closer to bullying me than I am to bullying GF. Why not take Kat's original advice and just ignore me, rather than derailing threads by picking on me?
And now, I'm done.
Thank god.
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
I don't think it's fair that everyone is ganging up on Godfather, especially since he was honest in sharing his viewpoint.
No one is going to change his mind. Not if you plead, not if you reason and especially not if you are bully him (PJ_Soul, that's you).
I don't feel like I'm bullying him, but I'm not surprised you think I am.
And you call everything you've said to him… nice??
No, who said that? Is everything you've said to me nice?? I didn't know there were only two options - bullying and nice. Huh.
What exactly do you call what you were attempting to do to him? From what you wrote, you were trying to make him admit that he's a bigot because of the definition of the word homophobe. That's being a bully.
What do you mean trying to make him admit he's a bigot/? He admitted he's a bigot, and then I jumped in to discuss. He willingly participated in a convo about what the word means. I made a case against what he was saying. The only reason you are calling me a bully is because you have a problem with me in general..... I mean, you are a lot closer to bullying me than I am to bullying GF. Why not take Kat's original advice and just ignore me, rather than derailing threads by picking on me?
Not so. Re-read your words and see how you're being quite pushy. You are actually quite aggressive to the guy. I attempt to point out the obvious, and it is YOU who thinks I'm trying to get personal. Whatev.
many against one & things are said that may not be swell, back & forth, back & forth. like when pan was here. as i gave reflection i felt bad. she was ganged up on & she definetly gave her views on topics & whatnot. it was complete bullshit & all the time
... I think that was different. There's a difference from completely contradicting yourself... denying you've ever said it in the first place... ignoring the proof when it is re-posted... having a fit about victimization... and general discussion of topical issues. Also, you can't continually say you love and care about everyone while expressing such distain and indifference towards some... in other words, you can't be an angel if you purposely shit on people's heads. Then, there was the baiting... masterful baiting covered in a creamy passive/aggressive sauce.
Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
Hail, Hail!!!
Again... I don't think Mr. Godfather is a bad guy. I know guys that are probably just like him. i tolerate them, even if I feel they have opinions that are diametrically opposed to mine. My guess... he knows Gay people... but, just doesn't know it.
Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
Hail, Hail!!!
many against one & things are said that may not be swell, back & forth, back & forth. like when pan was here. as i gave reflection i felt bad. she was ganged up on & she definetly gave her views on topics & whatnot. it was complete bullshit & all the time
... I think that was different. There's a difference from completely contradicting yourself... denying you've ever said it in the first place... ignoring the proof when it is re-posted... having a fit about victimization... and general discussion of topical issues. Also, you can't continually say you love and care about everyone while expressing such distain and indifference towards some... in other words, you can't be an angel if you purposely shit on people's heads. Then, there was the baiting... masterful baiting covered in a creamy passive/aggressive sauce.
I'm still just laughing (kinda sadly) about the "very firm stance of not AGREEING with homosexuality" post. It's that perfect blend of cluelessness and self-righteousness that you don't see often.
Again... I don't think Mr. Godfather is a bad guy. I know guys that are probably just like him. i tolerate them, even if I feel they have opinions that are diametrically opposed to mine. My guess... he knows Gay people... but, just doesn't know it.
I don't know GF, so can't say if he's a good guy or a bad guy..... But I am very confident in saying that I think his views on gays are very bad, and harmful to society, since I believe that complete equality for gays is important. I am actually not at all ashamed that I have NO tolerance for anti-gay attitudes. That's fine if you do, but I don't see tolerance of intolerance as an option. Example - if I found out that a friend had the same views as GF, I'd have to drop them as a friend. I'd do the same if I found out a friend was a racist. Now, that's not to say that I'd treat homophobes poorly or avoid conversations with them in coffee shops or deny them service. I definitely would NOT do such things. But I am way too passionate about this issue to just sort of shrug at anti-gay views as though they have no impact. Anti-gay views DO HURT. I take that personally (not as a gay person, but as a person who cares about equality for all, and not just by law, but in the hearts of people, since that it where all inequality begins). I'd like to see if this conversation would go differently if we had replaced the word "gay" with "black". What do you think?
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
Soooooooo. It's great to have these bills come up so we have these conversations both on board along with in the general public. Discrimination won't successful.
I don't think it's fair that everyone is ganging up on Godfather, especially since he was honest in sharing his viewpoint.
No one is going to change his mind. Not if you plead, not if you reason and especially not if you are bully him (PJ_Soul, that's you).
I don't feel like I'm bullying him, but I'm not surprised you think I am.
And you call everything you've said to him… nice??
No, who said that? Is everything you've said to me nice?? I didn't know there were only two options - bullying and nice. Huh.
What exactly do you call what you were attempting to do to him? From what you wrote, you were trying to make him admit that he's a bigot because of the definition of the word homophobe. That's being a bully.
What do you mean trying to make him admit he's a bigot/? He admitted he's a bigot, and then I jumped in to discuss. He willingly participated in a convo about what the word means. I made a case against what he was saying. The only reason you are calling me a bully is because you have a problem with me in general..... I mean, you are a lot closer to bullying me than I am to bullying GF. Why not take Kat's original advice and just ignore me, rather than derailing threads by picking on me?
Not so. Re-read your words and see how you're being quite pushy. You are actually quite aggressive to the guy. I attempt to point out the obvious, and it is YOU who thinks I'm trying to get personal. Whatev.
And now, I'm done.
Jeez, where are Polaris-X and Chadwick when we need them? I think our match-made-in-heaven has gone to hell again. What about the wedding? What about all the plans we've made?
Comments
"Hear me, my chiefs!
I am tired; my heart is
sick and sad. From where
the sun stands I will fight
no more forever."
Chief Joseph - Nez Perce
No, i don't care. I understand that people grow up and live under different circumstances than me. I'm not saying I agree with or respect such views, but i can't say I know under what circumstances they grew up in... so, i don't know the real story. I have learned, through life's experiences, that i need to get to know the person, regardless of what he or she may look like. Some people will write off people, just because of how they appear... i think they end up missing out on a lot of life's lessons.
And yes, whether the person is tolerant of all or intolerant of others, it changes my opinion of them... based upon what they show me. For example, I don't care for Rev. Phelps, based solely on the words he says... I think i would be able to handle a debate with him... but, I have a good suspecion that I would be drowned out by his increasing volume and inability to listen to any voice, other than his own. Does that mean I like him? Nope. I dispise the message he carries in his heart and it weighs heavy on my lack of respect for him, as a person.
When I do encounter someone who is intolerant, I express my perspective of tolerance. That's really, all I can do. If they choose the path on only hearing their own voice in a discussion... I know it is not worth my effort.
I guess I suppose that I like to give everyone the benefit of the doubt... and let them prove to me who they really are. Then, it is up to me on how to handle it.
Hail, Hail!!!
"Hear me, my chiefs!
I am tired; my heart is
sick and sad. From where
the sun stands I will fight
no more forever."
Chief Joseph - Nez Perce
I definitely agree with giving people the benefit of the doubt.... although not quite sure how it applies to the conversation.
It is hard to explain how I feel about bills like this. I find it sad that there are those that would refuse service to anyone based on biological factors. It would be like refusing service to those with Downs Syndrome, Cerebral Palsy, or Cancer...
Using a religion, where "Judge not lest ye be judged" is one of its main tennants, to discriminate and judge others based on their "lifestyles" is the very epitome of hypocrisy. I am so sorry that Sam Clemens isn't alive today. I would love to get his take on all of this nonsense... I am pretty sure Huck Finn's dad is the perfect representative for the fake "conservatives" of today. If you don't know who his pappy was you may want to refresh your memory because he was a simple minded moron ... Someone who makes people who oppose bigger gov't look like assholes.
Fuckers have ruined any chance there ever was to shrink gov't At this point President Obama could piss on the constitution while quoting Marx and punching pregnant women in the belly and I would still rather have him in charge than letting the morons who elect anyone who votes for and supports people who think up and pass bills like this...how are you going to pervert the first amendment like this...
It is terrifying when you are too stupid to know who is dumb
- Joe Rogan
And now, I'm done.
I think that was different. There's a difference from completely contradicting yourself... denying you've ever said it in the first place... ignoring the proof when it is re-posted... having a fit about victimization... and general discussion of topical issues. Also, you can't continually say you love and care about everyone while expressing such distain and indifference towards some... in other words, you can't be an angel if you purposely shit on people's heads.
Then, there was the baiting... masterful baiting covered in a creamy passive/aggressive sauce.
Hail, Hail!!!
My guess... he knows Gay people... but, just doesn't know it.
Hail, Hail!!!
Despite some of the views I've read here with which I agree and/or understand, it's made its way quite well onto the fucked route.
"Hear me, my chiefs!
I am tired; my heart is
sick and sad. From where
the sun stands I will fight
no more forever."
Chief Joseph - Nez Perce
I'd like to see if this conversation would go differently if we had replaced the word "gay" with "black". What do you think?