Arizona Seeks To Pass Anti-Gay Bill

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  • polaris_x
    polaris_x Posts: 13,559
    brianlux said:

    Arizona is a beautiful place that, like many places, has some people with very un-beautiful minds.

    except for scottsdale ... gonna have to second hedonist's view on that place ...
  • brianlux
    brianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 43,677
    polaris_x said:

    brianlux said:

    Arizona is a beautiful place that, like many places, has some people with very un-beautiful minds.

    except for scottsdale ... gonna have to second hedonist's view on that place ...
    Sorry to hear that. I've never been there. I'm guessing that bombing range Edward Abbey walked across alone might be a place to avoid as well. image


    Most of my experiences in AZ have been out in nature- Grand Canyon, the colorful hills around Sedona, Saguaro Ntl. Park, Oregon Pipe Cactus Ntl. Monument- places like that. Marvelous!
    "It's a sad and beautiful world"
    -Roberto Benigni

  • rgambs
    rgambs Posts: 13,576
    it's a great state for outdoorsmen, when we lived in tucson we hiked in the mountains twice a week. that's living right there.
    Monkey Driven, Call this Living?
  • jmuscatello
    jmuscatello Colorado Posts: 332
    edited February 2014
    brianlux said:

    Arizona is a beautiful place that, like many places, has some people with very un-beautiful minds.

    And Arizonans, some with those un-beautiful minds, can conceal-carry and open-carry firearms without a permit - gotta love the place! But hey, they sure have their rights. I have to go to Phoenix-Scottsdale next month.... ugh....


    Post edited by jmuscatello on
  • unsung
    unsung I stopped by on March 7 2024. First time in many years, had to update payment info. Hope all is well. Politicians suck. Bye. Posts: 9,487
    Unless you are a felon or have a mental disorder you should be able to carry a defense firearm without a permit.
  • Cosmo
    Cosmo Posts: 12,225
    Godfather. said:

    isn't this the same paranoid stuff you guy's accuse me of ? :)) and I guess freedon of religious beliefs can swing both ways so it just stands to reason that if a straight American business owner feels that a gay muslim is allowed to live in his city he does not have to offer his business to those people...everything comes with a price,I'm laughing my ass off right now you remember the ol' saying "be careful what you ask for" well this is a perfect example, people for any cause will only bend so much before they fight back and Arizona is a great example of that,you can call them biggots or racist but the truth is they are just people standing up for what they believe in just like you or anybody else...I love this place.

    Godfather.

    this pretty much sums up the whole topic.

    Though it does not mention same-sex marriage or relationships directly, it is clearly targeted at gay people, giving businesses immunity from discrimination lawsuits should they chose to deny service to customers in accordance with their religious beliefs.

    what's the problem ?

    Godfather.

    ...
    First off... I like it when you post candid messages like this. It provides people with some real insight on who you are and where you are coming from and a partial make-up of your true character. I, for one, commend you on this.
    ...
    Now.... i hope you fully understand what you are saying. What you are saying is that it would be okay to discriminate... against American citizens... in America... and claim that your religious beliefs protect you from the law of the land. That means people can avoid doing business with you... because you look like you might be gay. I suppose you wouldn't care if people look at you and decide you are gay and turn you away.... you would just go elsewhere, right? But, what if you are on a long stretch of Arizona highway with 1/4 of a gallon of gas in your tank and the nearest gas station owner decides that he won't sell you any gas... because you look gay to him. I mean, he doesn't know you... how does he know you are not a latent homosexual, right? You look like one... according to his view.
    You're okay with that, right? I mean, it is his business and he should be able to refuse service to anyone he pleases, right?
    Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
    Hail, Hail!!!
  • Kat
    Kat Posts: 4,973
    Wouldn't it help the religious who want to pass laws that they don't have to serve people they believe are 'sinners' to just say no sinners will be served here? It doesn't seem fair to pick and choose who you think is sinning according to the million different religions out there. No? Bad for business? Gee, it seems so fair though. :/
    Falling down,...not staying down
  • Cosmo
    Cosmo Posts: 12,225
    Kat said:

    Wouldn't it help the religious who want to pass laws that they don't have to serve people they believe are 'sinners' to just say no sinners will be served here? It doesn't seem fair to pick and choose who you think is sinning according to the million different religions out there. No? Bad for business? Gee, it seems so fair though. :/

    ...
    That's the trick with religion... you get to pick and choose whom you wish to discriminate against.
    If they were really, truely compelled by religious belief... what about divorced women? What does the Bible say about them? How about the people who work on the Sabbath Day? That is a violation of one of the top Ten Commandments, isn't it?
    The freightening part of this thing is that they are trying to LEGISLATE it into law of the land. It is bascially a Christian version of Shria Law. It allows discrimination by melding religious law with legislative law.
    Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
    Hail, Hail!!!
  • unsung
    unsung I stopped by on March 7 2024. First time in many years, had to update payment info. Hope all is well. Politicians suck. Bye. Posts: 9,487
    Why does government get to force a PRIVATE business to sell to everyone?

    If they are dumb enough to discriminate then they would be picketed into extinction.

    Instead everyone wants to force them to sell that cake. Guess what's been added to it?

    When I go to a business that has a no concealed carry sign outside I politely go inside and tell the owner that my money will not be spent there. I'll patronize another establishment. Why is that so hard for some people to comprehend?

  • Cosmo
    Cosmo Posts: 12,225
    edited February 2014
    unsung said:

    Why does government get to force a PRIVATE business to sell to everyone?

    If they are dumb enough to discriminate then they would be picketed into extinction.

    Instead everyone wants to force them to sell that cake. Guess what's been added to it?

    When I go to a business that has a no concealed carry sign outside I politely go inside and tell the owner that my money will not be spent there. I'll patronize another establishment. Why is that so hard for some people to comprehend?

    ....
    The point is... the law being proposed PROTECTS the business owners from discrimination lawsuits.
    If you are for getting government out of businesses' way... you should be opposed to laws telling them who they can and cannot sell to, right? Ask yourself, 'Why is this law even being proposed?'
    ...
    as for this,
    "When I go to a business that has a no concealed carry sign outside I politely go inside and tell the owner that my money will not be spent there. I'll patronize another establishment."
    The business owner responds, "That's fine with me... i wasn't going to sell you anything anyway because you look like a gay guy to me."
    Not a problem, right?
    Post edited by Cosmo on
    Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
    Hail, Hail!!!
  • rgambs
    rgambs Posts: 13,576
    unsung said:

    Why does government get to force a PRIVATE business to sell to everyone?

    If they are dumb enough to discriminate then they would be picketed into extinction.


    Instead everyone wants to force them to sell that cake. Guess what's been added to it?

    When I go to a business that has a no concealed carry sign outside I politely go inside and tell the owner that my money will not be spent there. I'll patronize another establishment. Why is that so hard for some people to comprehend?

    because we had Jim Crow before and it didn't work so well.
    Monkey Driven, Call this Living?
  • unsung
    unsung I stopped by on March 7 2024. First time in many years, had to update payment info. Hope all is well. Politicians suck. Bye. Posts: 9,487
    The world is different now.
  • Cosmo
    Cosmo Posts: 12,225
    unsung said:

    The world is different now.

    ...
    Actually... the targets are different, now.
    Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
    Hail, Hail!!!
  • rgambs
    rgambs Posts: 13,576
    i think this bill is evidence the world is the same
    Monkey Driven, Call this Living?
  • Godfather.
    Godfather. Posts: 12,504
    chadwick said:

    godfather,

    if you worked at a gas station (hell, maybe you own it) would you sell a gas can full of gas to a homosexual man who ran out of gas a few miles down the road?

    of course I would....but I wouldn't give him a ride to his car :)) I was thinking isn't there a law in place alreadt that says "we reserve the right to refuse survice to anybody" ?

    Godfather.
  • Cosmo
    Cosmo Posts: 12,225
    Godfather. said:

    of course I would....but I wouldn't give him a ride to his car :)) I was thinking isn't there a law in place alreadt that says "we reserve the right to refuse survice to anybody" ?

    Godfather.

    ...
    The right to refuse service because someone is black.. or Muslim... or Jewish... or Christian. You're okay with that?
    Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
    Hail, Hail!!!
  • Godfather.
    Godfather. Posts: 12,504
    Cosmo said:

    Godfather. said:

    isn't this the same paranoid stuff you guy's accuse me of ? :)) and I guess freedon of religious beliefs can swing both ways so it just stands to reason that if a straight American business owner feels that a gay muslim is allowed to live in his city he does not have to offer his business to those people...everything comes with a price,I'm laughing my ass off right now you remember the ol' saying "be careful what you ask for" well this is a perfect example, people for any cause will only bend so much before they fight back and Arizona is a great example of that,you can call them biggots or racist but the truth is they are just people standing up for what they believe in just like you or anybody else...I love this place.

    Godfather.

    this pretty much sums up the whole topic.

    Though it does not mention same-sex marriage or relationships directly, it is clearly targeted at gay people, giving businesses immunity from discrimination lawsuits should they chose to deny service to customers in accordance with their religious beliefs.

    what's the problem ?

    Godfather.

    ...
    First off... I like it when you post candid messages like this. It provides people with some real insight on who you are and where you are coming from and a partial make-up of your true character. I, for one, commend you on this.
    ...
    Now.... i hope you fully understand what you are saying. What you are saying is that it would be okay to discriminate... against American citizens... in America... and claim that your religious beliefs protect you from the law of the land. That means people can avoid doing business with you... because you look like you might be gay. I suppose you wouldn't care if people look at you and decide you are gay and turn you away.... you would just go elsewhere, right? But, what if you are on a long stretch of Arizona highway with 1/4 of a gallon of gas in your tank and the nearest gas station owner decides that he won't sell you any gas... because you look gay to him. I mean, he doesn't know you... how does he know you are not a latent homosexual, right? You look like one... according to his view.
    You're okay with that, right? I mean, it is his business and he should be able to refuse service to anyone he pleases, right?


    :)) ohhh brother... I find it funny that you and others are quick to assume that I am the bad guy right off the bat because I made a comment for the proposed law (that probably will never happen but I could care less if it did) and real funny thing is that everybody here believes that they have the best interest for man kind in mind and then I read post from time to time reading "I hope the place burns to the ground" or "if anybody deserves the death penelty it's that person",I gotta tell ya Cosmo I love this place., :))


    Godfather.
  • jmuscatello
    jmuscatello Colorado Posts: 332
    edited February 2014
    .
    Post edited by jmuscatello on
  • jmuscatello
    jmuscatello Colorado Posts: 332
    jmuscatello said:

    unsung said:

    Why does government get to force a PRIVATE business to sell to everyone?

    When I go to a business that has a no concealed carry sign outside I politely go inside and tell the owner that my money will not be spent there. I'll patronize another establishment. Why is that so hard for some people to comprehend?

    So unsung please tell me you aren't "carrying" when you go into the business to educate them on your beliefs and rights....because that would be pretty self-righteous and arrogant and disrespectful (and we all know that's not you). They are prohibiting firearms, they are not discriminating against you personally. The more rational response would be to just go elsewhere, I'm sure they really don't give a shit if they get your business or not.
  • Cosmo
    Cosmo Posts: 12,225
    edited February 2014
    Godfather. said:

    Cosmo said:

    Godfather. said:

    isn't this the same paranoid stuff you guy's accuse me of ? :)) and I guess freedon of religious beliefs can swing both ways so it just stands to reason that if a straight American business owner feels that a gay muslim is allowed to live in his city he does not have to offer his business to those people...everything comes with a price,I'm laughing my ass off right now you remember the ol' saying "be careful what you ask for" well this is a perfect example, people for any cause will only bend so much before they fight back and Arizona is a great example of that,you can call them biggots or racist but the truth is they are just people standing up for what they believe in just like you or anybody else...I love this place.

    Godfather.

    this pretty much sums up the whole topic.

    Though it does not mention same-sex marriage or relationships directly, it is clearly targeted at gay people, giving businesses immunity from discrimination lawsuits should they chose to deny service to customers in accordance with their religious beliefs.

    what's the problem ?

    Godfather.

    ...
    First off... I like it when you post candid messages like this. It provides people with some real insight on who you are and where you are coming from and a partial make-up of your true character. I, for one, commend you on this.
    ...
    Now.... i hope you fully understand what you are saying. What you are saying is that it would be okay to discriminate... against American citizens... in America... and claim that your religious beliefs protect you from the law of the land. That means people can avoid doing business with you... because you look like you might be gay. I suppose you wouldn't care if people look at you and decide you are gay and turn you away.... you would just go elsewhere, right? But, what if you are on a long stretch of Arizona highway with 1/4 of a gallon of gas in your tank and the nearest gas station owner decides that he won't sell you any gas... because you look gay to him. I mean, he doesn't know you... how does he know you are not a latent homosexual, right? You look like one... according to his view.
    You're okay with that, right? I mean, it is his business and he should be able to refuse service to anyone he pleases, right?
    :)) ohhh brother... I find it funny that you and others are quick to assume that I am the bad guy right off the bat because I made a comment for the proposed law (that probably will never happen but I could care less if it did) and real funny thing is that everybody here believes that they have the best interest for man kind in mind and then I read post from time to time reading "I hope the place burns to the ground" or "if anybody deserves the death penelty it's that person",I gotta tell ya Cosmo I love this place., :))


    Godfather.
    ...
    Actually, sir... I was being truthful. I like it when people express their honest, heartfelt opinions. As I said, it provides me a glimpse of who they really are.
    I never stated you were a 'Bad Guy'. It is comments like this, "People for any cause will only bend so much before they fight back and Arizona is a great example of that,you can call them biggots or racist but the truth is they are just people standing up for what they believe in just like you or anybody else", that I am trying to understand.
    You are saying that it is okay for Arizona to stand up for what they believe in... even though those beliefs discriminate against others.
    If I'm wrong, please, clarify. You are sending mixed messages... is it okay to discriminate against Americans in America and use religion as a justification... or isn't it? Should the law protect the people discriminating.. or protect those being discriminated against?
    Please, clarify.

    Post edited by Cosmo on
    Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
    Hail, Hail!!!
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