Hear the fans - Bring Pearl Jam To Israel

JK18472

Soda stream is an Israeli company that is based in the west bank. The Palestinians who ate employed there get paid double the normal wages. They ate given excellent health coverage, and the they say they love it. This is s good thing. This is nit something to boycott at all this us progress.

PhillyCrownOfThorns

As stated in other forums, PJ is free to play wherever the fuck they want. Go play N Korea with Rodman in the front row.

How dare anyone tell them where they should spread their music and art?

PhillyCrownOfThorns

I love the portrayal of Israel not allowing a concert in the West Bank. If PJ wanted to play there, they could play there. The real question is… would it be worth them playing in either location?

PhillyCrownOfThorns

And lastly, I do find it funny when the most vocal anti-Israel people on this board have never set foot in either Israel, the West Bank, or Gaza. Byrnzie and DrownedOut are 2…

Real Life experiences will always bring perspective. I suggest you go take a look with your own eyes! You are entitled to your opinions, but you are no less a propagandist than the other side!

mattsl1983

My biggest gripe against Palestinian supporters is they take no responsibility in their previous actions and act like just out of the blue Israel took their land. Look how the situation got here. 1948 Arab-Israelie War and 1967 6 day war. Neither of those two were was Israel the antagonist. They kicked some ass and took some land. That's kind of how things go. You can't cry about it being unfair. It's like the bully that thought he was just going to roll over some little kid got his ass kicked, and is still crying about the scar on his face many years later. And then people want to act like Palastinians are just the most peaceful bunch of people. They never shoot rockets, or use bombs. They are just 100% victims. I don't even take sides in the matter. That area has always been in conflict, and I honestly don't think giving up land will resolve it. There will always be some issue. Anyways, it would be cool if they played there. I would never be opposed to where a band played. I'd say that's pretty cool if they played in Iran, or North Korea. It comes down to a band playing for Fans. Not a flag, but fans. People no different between you and I when we hear a PJ song.

Idris

Why does Israel continue to build/expand settlements?

mattsl1983

Maybe because since day one of its declaration as a country it's friendly neighbors have declined to recognize it and has called for its destruction? Has started wars against it? Maybe the land they took offer a great strategic advantage in further protecting themselves? You can look at it and talk about how unjust it is, but if you look at it from the other side I can't fault them for their actions.

Idris

So Israel is building more settlements and taking more land because they want to "further protect themselves". Well, that's fresh.

The land grabs and building of settlements is a major issue and the concept that they (Israel) are taking more land (source of much of the conflict) to further protect themselves? Come on now, One would think that having more area to protect is more difficult, so it is incredibly silly for Israel to be doing that for that reason, so then what, They are taking more land because countries decline to "recognize it"? So basically what Israel is doing is grabbing more land, and yelling "recognize me!"..."why won't you recognize me!"

I'm not sure where else to go with that, its just really funny, and kinda sad.
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So 'why' is Israel 'really' taking more land? What is the real agenda?
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(and btw, Israel was doing false flag operations years before 6 day war, Israel has always been the aggressor. Taking over someones land, then when faced with resistance, call 'foul', I'm sorry, that's just all types of wrong)

Israel (Israeli agents) planting bombs around civilian targets and installations owned by the US and Britain, I refer everyone to The Lavon Affair.

endusmilitarism.org/lavon_affair_july_1954.html

mattsl1983

Why does it seem some want it ignore history and make up their own convenient history? Again, just to point out, you still completely point the finger at Israel and take no responsibility of the Palastinians and how this situation got here. I'm just going to nod my head, say you are 100% correct. Your ability to bring up the "real" truth has completely made me pick a side. Palistine! Palistine!... Pearl Jam shouldn't play in Israel... They should play in Palistine! Those poor Palistenians that ain't never done nothing wrong. This is an outrage! I'm calling it, kangaroo court! Malarkey, enough of this tom foolery! Thanks, your constant strong points (many of which are highly questionable, and seem to ignore any historical truth) have persuaded me. Thanks!

mattsl1983

Over the top Palestinian supporters such as yourself really do not make your cause look good at all. You have a good one, done with this thread.

brianlux

I'm surprised to see so many here who believe Pearl Jam is not a political/socially conscientious entity. Yes, a band first, but one in which being outspoken on environmental and social issues plays a large part. So are we talking about the same group? You know, the Ed, Mike, Stone, Jeff, Matt (and Boom too) group that originated in Seattle?

Playing Israel is a choice the band will or will not make but you can be sure if they do so they will have their reasons and will state them... which is what many of us are waiting for Neil Young (and you know I'm a big Neil Young fan) to do. If you play, say why.

CM189191

rr165892 said:

Good Morning all !
CM-lots of stuff in there.Some I can't argue with and may even agree with on some level,But your first big issue is closing your mind to Florida.You missing out on a special way of life.Texas and Zona are quite nice also.Dont be afraid of the sun.Its healthy for you.I assume you are in the upper midwest(Illinios,Wis,Mn)We here in the sunbelt just choose to live in a state that skips the shitty seasons.It may open your mind!On airport security,don't you think some of your Palestinian friends have contributed to your removal of belt and shoes????????? Come on.

I've been to Florida numerous times. You're right, it is beautiful. So are AZ & TX. I hear Israel is nice as well. It's not the weather or the landscapes I take issue with. It's 'stand your ground'. It's neglecting to educate your citizens, but high schools that have million dollar football stadiums. It's Sheriff Arpaio treating minorities like second class citizens to support a profitable private prison industry that helped write "three-strike" and "truth-in-sentencing" laws that drive up prison populations.

9/11 Hijackers: 15 citizens of Saudi Arabia. The others were from the UAE (2), Egypt and Lebanon.
Shoe bomber: Born and raised in England, trained in Pakistan and Afghanistan.
Underwear Bomber: Born in Nigeria, Lived in London/Dubai/Yemen.

So no, I don't think Palestinians had anything to do with our airport security. I also don't believe they attacked us 'because they hate us for our freedoms'. I believe they were motivated by America's continued meddling in Middle East affairs.

CM189191

Idris said:

So CM189191 , who did you vote for the last 2 elections?

You'll note the title of this thread isn't "Pearl Jam, play CM's apartment". Why make this about me? I didn't tear down the wall to my neighbor's unit, lock him is his bedroom, blow up his kitchen, erect settlements his living room, take a dump in his toilet and pretend my shit don't stink.

Idris

mattsl1983 said:

Why does it seem some want it ignore history and make up their own convenient history? Again, just to point out, you still completely point the finger at Israel and take no responsibility of the Palastinians and how this situation got here. I'm just going to nod my head, say you are 100% correct. Your ability to bring up the "real" truth has completely made me pick a side. Palistine! Palistine!... Pearl Jam shouldn't play in Israel... They should play in Palistine! Those poor Palistenians that ain't never done nothing wrong. This is an outrage! I'm calling it, kangaroo court! Malarkey, enough of this tom foolery! Thanks, your constant strong points (many of which are highly questionable, and seem to ignore any historical truth) have persuaded me. Thanks!

Own convenient history? What are you on about? What's questionable?

Israel bombing targets and blaming it on others? Israel taking more land? building more settlements?

mattsl1983 said:

Over the top Palestinian supporters such as yourself really do not make your cause look good at all. You have a good one, done with this thread.

Tell me what I've stated that is untrue?...

I don't condone the religious fanatics on the Palestinian side, but I'm not so blind as to not clearly be able to cite/see that Israeli actions throughout it's history is/as the major contributing factor.

When Israel stops taking more land, stops building settlements, and returns what needs to be returned, if at that point Palestinians are still violent, I'll side with the Israelis.

Idris

CM189191 said:

Idris said:

So CM189191 , who did you vote for the last 2 elections?

You'll note the title of this thread isn't "Pearl Jam, play CM's apartment". Why make this about me? I didn't tear down the wall to my neighbor's unit, lock him is his bedroom, blow up his kitchen, erect settlements his living room, take a dump in his toilet and pretend my shit don't stink.

I was just curious, I mean you did say "I vote with my voice, my dollars and at the ballot box", so I wanted to know where that voice landed the last two elections, I understand this thread is not about you, but you did make an entire post/reply about working for whatever company, working with non profit this/that etc and then talk about places you visited and your feelings about other issues.

I did not just randomly ask you who you voted for, I got curious after a couple of posts about yourself.

But I'll drop it if you like, no issues.

mattsl1983

Idris, I'm sorry I'm trying to stay away from this thread but this
"if at that point Palestinians are still violent, I'll side with the Israelis."
It started because of their violence. It's really not that hard to check history and look at what happened after Israel was founded. The only difference is the battle cry and reasons have changed. The Middle East has never been peaceful for those that are not Muslim. Sorry but it's true. Do you honestly think that if Israel pulled off the West Bank and Gaza all will be righteous in the Middle East? C'mon now...

PJ_Soul

Not sure how people can take sides, but okay. IMO, Isreal and Palestine are both totally fucked up and both totally wrong. Neither side is better or worse than the other. Neither side has been willing to budge for the exact same reasons, and given those reasons, I don't see how either side has allowed any possible room for compromise. I don't think PJ should set foot there until both sides can stop being a bigoted bunch of hypocrites and settle things equitably. I also think "the west" shpuld get their noses right out of it and let these a-holes sort it out between themselves, for better or worse. Of course I mean all that on the political level, not personal. And of course what i think ought to be won't be, especially since the US in particular is incapable of butting put of anything when it comes to any place that has anything to do with how much money rich people can make.

brianlux

Peace talks between Israel and Palestine have sporadically occurred for almost fifty years- longer than many of you have been alive- and yet peace seems as far from happening as ever. If I'm correct, the last hopeful events there happened in July of last year (if I recall, something about the Hamas nixing Kerry's plan) but that fell apart. The same can be seen here in these forums- the same arguments and nobody giving an inch to either side. This seems the the epitome of futility. I wish someone would please suggest at least some remotely possible peaceful resolution to this situation. The world has sat at the brink of chaos over this all these years. Is it really hopeless?

Idris

mattsl1983 said:

Idris, I'm sorry I'm trying to stay away from this thread but this
"if at that point Palestinians are still violent, I'll side with the Israelis."
It started because of their violence. It's really not that hard to check history and look at what happened after Israel was founded. The only difference is the battle cry and reasons have changed. The Middle East has never been peaceful for those that are not Muslim. Sorry but it's true. Do you honestly think that if Israel pulled off the West Bank and Gaza all will be righteous in the Middle East? C'mon now...

"It's really not that hard to check history"...Well then I suggest you go "check history" Mr matts.

What books have you been reading? Please provide me information as to where you have come up with the notion (or to imply) that Israel was founded on anything but violence and bloodshed that continues to this day or that " It started because of their violence", referring to the Palestinians.

Israel still continues to take land and build more settlements, so it has not really stopped, Its on going, when I wake up in the morning, it'll (probably) be the same thing.

and btw History has shown us that They have lived in 'relative' peace side by side before,

and history is filled with other examples of 'relative' peace, side by side. So based on history, yes I do honestly think that things would be better, in this modern day if Israel makes those moves, so as we have said, Israel should stop taking more land which is a major source of tension and return what needs to be returned. (For starters of course)

and I never said that "all will be righteous in the middle east", but one can easily come to a well education conclusion that things would be 'better'.
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and PJ_Soul,

Not sure how people can take sides, but okay. IMO, Isreal and Palestine are both totally fucked up and both totally wrong. Neither side is better or worse than the other. Neither side has been willing to budge for the exact same reasons, and given those reasons, I don't see how either side has allowed any possible room for compromise
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It's not really taking sides, as it is rather seeing a great injustice and calling it out, like with any other injustice (and Israeli oppression is an injustice) Both sides are wrong? The person having his home taken from him, how is that person 'wrong'? Because he fights back? Because he refuses to make peace with the person continuing to advance into his bedroom? Since when does the victim need to 'compromise', "Let's compromise, you wanna stab me 5 inches? will you settle for 3?"...People should be fine that? Is that really the world we live in? (and I have much respect for you pj_soul as a poster on these forums, and agree with your second part about 'the west should get their noses out")

But Imagine if we looked at apartheid South Africa like that, when the ANC were using 'terrorist' tactics to overthrow apartheid and then looking at the people resisting as 'totally wrong'. Israel does not get a pass...and personally I don't agree with everything the Palestinians have done, but they are not = to blame, not at all.
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(well the USA did have Mandela on the terror watch list until fairly recently)
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mattsl1983

Idris, hmm, maybe you should go back to 1948. What happened in 1948? What exactly did happened? Who started the violence, who started the war of 1948? Again, take responsibility for the actions you side with. I'm not even a pro supporter of Israel, well I am if a band wants to play there and some self-righteous nut job decides they shouldn't on their own own sympathetic one way view of the world, but you are actually making me like Israel more. I would say you have failed in your attempt to not only speak against a band playing in Israel, but also in that in your out of place argument (this thread was about PJ playing in a country) you have given a poor showing and shown much ignorance to your cause. Good job. You, you just keep fighting the good fight, bring up politics and your political view every time you have the chance, and more importantly, keep on pursading us people that listen to what you have to say. Clap, clap. Congrats