how can anyone possibly debate this issue? if this isn't run by the 10C or the venue then it doesn't exist and anyone coming back into line should be kicked out. plain and simple.
Yes, I agree anyone who has disappeared for hours despite having a number should be kicked out of the line. However, not having a list actually doesn't prevent this behaviour so the list is not the problem.
I'm going to shut up now. I think I've said enough. I am just trying to convey that the list is not evil for folks who haven't ever tried to line up early for GA and it's not run by some secret society. If you're going to believe that is the case without first hand experience, be my guest, I'm clearly not going to change your mind which is fine. It's not perfect by any means, but not having a list does not prevent all the issues everyone has been raising.
So far the only first hand account of any abuse I've heard about is from you and to be honest, I'm not clear that the abuse was and how this impacted you. I'm sorry if you've explained and I missed it. I am not misunderstanding general admission at all. Like I said, the people who ultimately enter first should be the ones who show up the earliest, list or no list. The list facilitates this process, it's not a reservation tool by any means. I'm sorry you had a bad GA experience involving the list and I hope it goes better for you next time. Everyone else who has been angered by this has not waited in line for this tour from what I can tell.
Where did I say I was abused by this?
I was ignorant of the process, the entire show and I was there at least 40 minutes before the doors opened. I said I didn't know about the list until after the show. If I had, I would have changed some of my actions prior to getting in line for the door. I never said I witnessed people that jumped in front after being away for hours. Others have.
Is it too much to ask for this process to be recognized by the 10 club or ran by the 10 club. To add this in the extensive instructions laid out in the final conformation email for ticket holders? To know prior to showing up to the show who "Adolf Listler" is? How do we find him or her?
The mystery to me is why would you or anyone else would be against the 10 club notifying all GA ticket holders of this process?
I think no one want people disappearing for hours and then returning, and that is not the reason for people starting a list. The ones starting it on the cold morning before Philly sat there all the way through - we all did, leaving just for bathroom breaks and food/Drinks.
The list is just a way to make it more organized and easier.
My question still remains, have the person starting this thread and being so against the list even experienced anything negative regarding it?
Seems like paranoia to me.
(And I don't care if there is a list or not, but for me it makes me a bit calmer if some idiot try to cut in or the line need to be moved by the arena staff etc.)
And idiots will exist in the 10c line and ruin it for other people, list or not. But from my experience, everything worked out fine with the list in Philly.
"Mostly I think that people react sensitively because they know you’ve got a point"
The mystery to me is why would you or anyone else would be against the 10 club notifying all GA ticket holders of this process?
In Europe the PJ staff have pretty much said "it's your business" and have not wanted anything to do with it or handle it when problems have occurred etc.
It's not anything official, but you mean they should write "There might be a list in the front of the GA line depending on if someone starts one to keep it all a bit more organized. Be aware of this."?
because there is no chance 10C would take it upon themselves to organize something like that themselves.
"Mostly I think that people react sensitively because they know you’ve got a point"
The mystery to me is why would you or anyone else would be against the 10 club notifying all GA ticket holders of this process?
In Europe the PJ staff have pretty much said "it's your business" and have not wanted anything to do with it or handle it when problems have occurred etc.
It's not anything official, but you mean they should write "There might be a list in the front of the GA line depending on if someone starts one to keep it all a bit more organized. Be aware of this."?
because there is no chance 10C would take it upon themselves to organize something like that themselves.
I wonder if their position has anything to do with the definition of General Admission?
My question still remains, have the person starting this thread and being so against the list even experienced anything negative regarding it?
Well, did you not read the original post about Vegas '03? And yes, I still see comments about people thanking the list so that they could be off doing what they want on this current tour.
1/95 DC 7/95 Chicago Tor Tol Cha 96 AlpV I II Chi St L KC 98 BSB I II 99 Phx Vegas Fresno SBern 00 BSB I II 01 (met ed) Vegas Phx Fargo St. Paul Chicago Alpine V Indy Col Virg Phi I II MSG I II (got on DVD!) 03 Calg 05 Clev Vegas LA I II SBar 06 Lon Dus Cop Nij Bel 07 Phi I II DC MSG I II Har BOS I II 08, LA3/4, SD '09, MSG I II '10, Missoula, London ONT, Wrigley, SD, LA1/2, Portland. Wrigley '16 I and II.
It's nothing more than an attempt to bring order to the queue ... In a civilized way. In Europe last year it was not possible if you arrived early not to know of the system. All new comers to the venue were offered friendly advice to grab a number if being early was important to them to get a good spot.
It's as simple as that. And it worked really well. There was no difficulty with anyone I saw. Yes it was boring but it worked out well. The time spent on that Manchester pavement wasn't wasted. The fans acted with integrity, and with respect to each other. I think Tenclub expect that.
There appears to be a mentality here that suggests a minority of rebellious unrepentant non conformists whom seem to just want to be difficult.
This isn't school, you don't need teacher to hold your hands
Paul I love you but you have to realize there is a huge difference between the united states and Europe.
Who has time to sit in line for 12 plus hours so you can secure a spot on the rail?
Enough people it seems.
I think it's part of the experience. Some people are busy having familes etc, well maybe then it's not for them. But I don't think it's a problem. Just like camping out for Hobbit tickets or whatever. It's part of the experience.
I don't think part if the experience of seeing a show is being in line for twelve plus hours. Sorry. I have responsibilities that include my job (which I could take a vacation day) or being a responsible father which never gets a vacation day. Unless you have kids you wouldn't understand.
i can only speak to the experience with the missoula line. there was a list, but people did not leave for hours at a time, it just allowed everyone to hang out together in line instead of sitting in formation all day. people were visiting each other, watching football games on laptops, smoking bowls with one another, everyone had their name on a list so they could get in an actual "line" before the doors opened, but the crowd of people enjoying each others company as a group as opposed to a single file line worked out just fine. there was no way anyone would have mistaken the large crowd of people partying in front of the entrance as anything other than a wait for GA to let in. now, if people are putting their name on a list and leaving for any large period of time, than obviously, they are SOL, is that really happening??????
Worked out just fine at the shows I went to. Everyone knew and was cool about it. It made things like chilling with friends at other parts of the line or taking bathroom breaks really easy.
I just think the list shouldn't be used. Nor should people have to mark numbers on their hands. If it's not run by the 10 Club or the venue, then I don't think any fan(s) has any such authority to implement it. At least until the end of Leg 2, fans are going to arrive early to line up to earn a great GA spot, there's no doubt about it. People that use the list to get out of truly waiting aren't acting with integrity. I agree that you should be able to leave for short times to use the bathroom, get food or drinks, get the tickets, etc. These breaks from the line really shouldn't last much longer than 10-15 minutes in my opinion. If you're off at the pre-party, or you're off showering at your hotel or any such absence from the line that lasts longer than 15 minutes and isn't really a necessity in nature, then in my eyes that is a bit abusive. I think it is worthy to see PJ up close whether it's on the rail or close to it. I understand why fans want to enjoy this experience and I have been able to do it a bunch of times myself. If you look at other famous groups, musicians, artists, the prices of tickets to experience them that close are sometimes in the thousands of dollars, or at least several hundreds for face value even. I'm sure the majority of fans are actually being great in line and having each other's backs. The fans that make the waiting the best it can be are of the right spirit. But let's face it: waiting all day on cement sidewalks sucks and isn't the easiest. That is why some will try to get out of it by claiming their numbered spot on the list. Fans should just show up, form the line, and be respectful about the process rather than being made to adhere to some list run by the earliest arriving fans.
So to be clear , if people don't disappear then everything is good ?
You'd have no problem ?
And SuMay is right you haven't done such a show since 07?
And your going to rely on everything you heard being true about people showering etc?
Wow. Shaky foundations
So a few want ten club to organize this ? You really think they have time on show day to get a bunch of fans into number order? When this system works well, what's the point. Do you want Tenclub to start organizing the pre parties too ? You know so everyone gets official word? No people know fine well about both - and I fail to believe that anyone turning up between 9-12noon to get a spot doesn't know of the list. We came equipped with social skills and that tends to help working things out.
Sure Tenclub could mention it in their email, but why would they ? It wouldn't change a thing. Did I read right that one of the 'complainers' here arrived a whole 40 minutes before doors opened and would have done things differently if the list was known to him ? Is that for real?
I keep seeing 'no one has the authority' to do this... Blah blah, you really think there needs to be a person from Tenclub or a fan that has to have a special Tenclub badge to start off something so obviously common sense ? People for years and years and years have managed to organize themselves .... Now all of a sudden the only way this can happen is by order of the leadership.
You mean, I don't understand that other parts of your life will take up your time if I don't actually have kids? I've been around kids, is that enough or do I actually have to have some first to understand that they fill up ones schedule?
And GA for rock shows have always had lines and people waiting/camping out. It's not something new. Maybe not meant for people choosing to have kids, but to be it's part of the rock shows. If they would implement a system for GA... sure... but I don't think this system is "crazy". It's just how it is, and have been. You people with these kids I have no idea how to relate to might have to accept that
"Mostly I think that people react sensitively because they know you’ve got a point"
there was a list, but people did not leave for hours at a time, it just allowed everyone to hang out together in line instead of sitting in formation all day. people were visiting each other, watching football games on laptops, smoking bowls with one another, everyone had their name on a list so they could get in an actual "line" before the doors opened, but the crowd of people enjoying each others company as a group as opposed to a single file line worked out just fine.
"Mostly I think that people react sensitively because they know you’ve got a point"
Did I read right that one of the 'complainers' here arrived a whole 40 minutes before doors opened and would have done things differently if the list was known to him ? Is that for real?
Yes you read that right, I probably would have showed up earlier if I was aware my unreserved general admission ticket could magically be turned into a reserved seat according to some unofficial list.
:fp:
Yes you read that right, I probably would have showed up earlier if I was aware my unreserved general admission ticket could magically be turned into a reserved seat according to some unofficial list.
:fp:
You don't seem to understand. At all.
(but maybe my experience just felt fair and everything you seem to wan't, with the added greatness of being able to sit in groups and chat and visit the bathroom without hassle. Maybe it actually didn't work and people went away all day and came back. I did not notice. No one did that where I was sitting.)
So what the hell, skip the list and the numbers. They really have no function as long as people around you are cool.
"Mostly I think that people react sensitively because they know you’ve got a point"
Yes you read that right, I probably would have showed up earlier if I was aware my unreserved general admission ticket could magically be turned into a reserved seat according to some unofficial list.
:fp:
You don't seem to understand. At all.
(but maybe my experience just felt fair and everything you seem to wan't, with the added greatness of being able to sit in groups and chat and visit the bathroom without hassle. Maybe it actually didn't work and people went away all day and came back. I did not notice. No one did that where I was sitting.)
So what the hell, skip the list and the numbers. They really have no function as long as people around you are cool.
I'm not the one not understanding here. For this system to mean anything it needs to be part of the clearly laid out rules of the 10 club ticket policy.
Truth be told, I don't care that much. I've only gone to one show this tour and won't see them again until next time around. I just wanted to throw in my two cents about the obvious problems with this list, as others have. If you want to ignore these problems, go ahead. Go sign the Sevens petition or something. At least you got an email about that.
Did I read right that one of the 'complainers' here arrived a whole 40 minutes before doors opened and would have done things differently if the list was known to him ? Is that for real?
Yes you read that right, I probably would have showed up earlier if I was aware my unreserved general admission ticket could magically be turned into a reserved seat according to some unofficial list.
:fp:
are you for real?
If you had turned up earlier you would have been closer, because you'd have been closer to the front of the line with or without a list.
Seems you jumped on the gravy train here despite not having any experience of anyone on your show cheating the line. Did you really expect to turn up 40 minutes before opening and have a shot at the rail?
So a few want ten club to organize this ? You really think they have time on show day to get a bunch of fans into number order?
Perhaps this is why the Band has changed to doing GA and Festivals because they were over working out seats for seniority and trying to keep the Faithfull happy.
Do 10c members GA get in 30 mins before non 10c members at shows?
So a few want ten club to organize this ? You really think they have time on show day to get a bunch of fans into number order?
Perhaps this is why the Band has changed to doing GA and Festivals because they were over working out seats for seniority and trying to keep the Faithfull happy.
Do 10c members GA get in 30 mins before non 10c members at shows?
So a few want ten club to organize this ? You really think they have time on show day to get a bunch of fans into number order?
Perhaps this is why the Band has changed to doing GA and Festivals because they were over working out seats for seniority and trying to keep the Faithfull happy.
Do 10c members GA get in 30 mins before non 10c members at shows?
oh and I think as the floor is all tenc in the states, there would be no need for early entry
So a few want ten club to organize this ? You really think they have time on show day to get a bunch of fans into number order?
Perhaps this is why the Band has changed to doing GA and Festivals because they were over working out seats for seniority and trying to keep the Faithfull happy.
Do 10c members GA get in 30 mins before non 10c members at shows?
oh and I think as the floor is all tenc in the states, there would be no need for early entry
yep..no early entry cos all GA section are 10c tix only
"...Dimitri...He talks to me...'.."The Ghost of Greece..".
"..That's One Happy Fuckin Ghost.."
“..That came up on the Pillow Case...This is for the Greek, With Our Apologies.....”
..why so much trouble and getting so nervous about all this GA and how it works..?
in europe PJ plays GA 20 + Years,why so much drama about it at states??
i dont get it..and cos i read all the social media fans post and have conversations,there is NO such a big deal how things worked
and seems to me,some people try to find problems,even slightly ones,so just to continue talkin g about an issue..
just go,and enjoy the show..and from what ALL we saw at videos GA at USA shows is so cool,easy,no pushing,no dangerous at all..all worked just fine,and not as WAR ZONE Some tried made it seem,when 10c announce the usa 2013 tour.
and something else..Almost ALL contact me or posting about tix,have a request only
"do u know anyone has GA so i can trade them with my reserved tix?"
its easy to see people want GA,and things working just find..
if the issue is a few cut the line,,yeah right,assholes are everywhere..we knew that before GA show up at usa tour..
"...Dimitri...He talks to me...'.."The Ghost of Greece..".
"..That's One Happy Fuckin Ghost.."
“..That came up on the Pillow Case...This is for the Greek, With Our Apologies.....”
You mean, I don't understand that other parts of your life will take up your time if I don't actually have kids? I've been around kids, is that enough or do I actually have to have some first to understand that they fill up ones schedule?
And GA for rock shows have always had lines and people waiting/camping out. It's not something new. Maybe not meant for people choosing to have kids, but to be it's part of the rock shows. If they would implement a system for GA... sure... but I don't think this system is "crazy". It's just how it is, and have been. You people with these kids I have no idea how to relate to might have to accept that
I'm not being mean, i'm just saying a lot of people that have kids don't have 12 hours to sit in a line and some people don't understand that.
As far as the whole ga process I think the Bruce method could work extremely well. If it doesn't happen I know that I'll never be on the rail. Not a big deal. I walked into ga at brooklyn 1 15 minutes before the band went on and I was 8 people deep in front of stone; this is better than 95% of the people in the building.
Comments
Objection your honor! Hearsay!
Objection granted. Case dismissed.
Werchter/A'dam1/Werchter/EVA'dam2/EVLondon1/Portland/Spokane/Calgary/Vancouver/
Seattle
Longtime ghost
I'm going to shut up now. I think I've said enough. I am just trying to convey that the list is not evil for folks who haven't ever tried to line up early for GA and it's not run by some secret society. If you're going to believe that is the case without first hand experience, be my guest, I'm clearly not going to change your mind which is fine. It's not perfect by any means, but not having a list does not prevent all the issues everyone has been raising.
Rock and roll.
Where did I say I was abused by this?
I was ignorant of the process, the entire show and I was there at least 40 minutes before the doors opened. I said I didn't know about the list until after the show. If I had, I would have changed some of my actions prior to getting in line for the door. I never said I witnessed people that jumped in front after being away for hours. Others have.
Is it too much to ask for this process to be recognized by the 10 club or ran by the 10 club. To add this in the extensive instructions laid out in the final conformation email for ticket holders? To know prior to showing up to the show who "Adolf Listler" is? How do we find him or her?
The mystery to me is why would you or anyone else would be against the 10 club notifying all GA ticket holders of this process?
I think no one want people disappearing for hours and then returning, and that is not the reason for people starting a list. The ones starting it on the cold morning before Philly sat there all the way through - we all did, leaving just for bathroom breaks and food/Drinks.
The list is just a way to make it more organized and easier.
My question still remains, have the person starting this thread and being so against the list even experienced anything negative regarding it?
Seems like paranoia to me.
(And I don't care if there is a list or not, but for me it makes me a bit calmer if some idiot try to cut in or the line need to be moved by the arena staff etc.)
And idiots will exist in the 10c line and ruin it for other people, list or not. But from my experience, everything worked out fine with the list in Philly.
It's not anything official, but you mean they should write "There might be a list in the front of the GA line depending on if someone starts one to keep it all a bit more organized. Be aware of this."?
because there is no chance 10C would take it upon themselves to organize something like that themselves.
I wonder if their position has anything to do with the definition of General Admission?
My question still remains, have the person starting this thread and being so against the list even experienced anything negative regarding it?
Well, did you not read the original post about Vegas '03? And yes, I still see comments about people thanking the list so that they could be off doing what they want on this current tour.
How can it be organized when not every person with a 10c ticket knows about... only a select few
So to be clear , if people don't disappear then everything is good ?
You'd have no problem ?
And SuMay is right you haven't done such a show since 07?
And your going to rely on everything you heard being true about people showering etc?
Wow. Shaky foundations
So a few want ten club to organize this ? You really think they have time on show day to get a bunch of fans into number order? When this system works well, what's the point. Do you want Tenclub to start organizing the pre parties too ? You know so everyone gets official word? No people know fine well about both - and I fail to believe that anyone turning up between 9-12noon to get a spot doesn't know of the list. We came equipped with social skills and that tends to help working things out.
Sure Tenclub could mention it in their email, but why would they ? It wouldn't change a thing. Did I read right that one of the 'complainers' here arrived a whole 40 minutes before doors opened and would have done things differently if the list was known to him ? Is that for real?
I keep seeing 'no one has the authority' to do this... Blah blah, you really think there needs to be a person from Tenclub or a fan that has to have a special Tenclub badge to start off something so obviously common sense ? People for years and years and years have managed to organize themselves .... Now all of a sudden the only way this can happen is by order of the leadership.
You mean, I don't understand that other parts of your life will take up your time if I don't actually have kids? I've been around kids, is that enough or do I actually have to have some first to understand that they fill up ones schedule?
And GA for rock shows have always had lines and people waiting/camping out. It's not something new. Maybe not meant for people choosing to have kids, but to be it's part of the rock shows. If they would implement a system for GA... sure... but I don't think this system is "crazy". It's just how it is, and have been. You people with these kids I have no idea how to relate to might have to accept that
You've been to a show 10 years ago? Ok, your paranoid and fierce anti-list frenzy is motivated then
Yes you read that right, I probably would have showed up earlier if I was aware my unreserved general admission ticket could magically be turned into a reserved seat according to some unofficial list.
:fp:
(but maybe my experience just felt fair and everything you seem to wan't, with the added greatness of being able to sit in groups and chat and visit the bathroom without hassle. Maybe it actually didn't work and people went away all day and came back. I did not notice. No one did that where I was sitting.)
So what the hell, skip the list and the numbers. They really have no function as long as people around you are cool.
I'm not the one not understanding here. For this system to mean anything it needs to be part of the clearly laid out rules of the 10 club ticket policy.
Truth be told, I don't care that much. I've only gone to one show this tour and won't see them again until next time around. I just wanted to throw in my two cents about the obvious problems with this list, as others have. If you want to ignore these problems, go ahead. Go sign the Sevens petition or something. At least you got an email about that.
are you for real?
If you had turned up earlier you would have been closer, because you'd have been closer to the front of the line with or without a list.
Seems you jumped on the gravy train here despite not having any experience of anyone on your show cheating the line. Did you really expect to turn up 40 minutes before opening and have a shot at the rail?
Perhaps this is why the Band has changed to doing GA and Festivals because they were over working out seats for seniority and trying to keep the Faithfull happy.
Do 10c members GA get in 30 mins before non 10c members at shows?
I think only in Europe that happened.
I haven't heard of that this tour....
In Europe the entire Arena is GA, so that's why you get in 30 min earlier.
oh and I think as the floor is all tenc in the states, there would be no need for early entry
"..That's One Happy Fuckin Ghost.."
“..That came up on the Pillow Case...This is for the Greek, With Our Apologies.....”
in europe PJ plays GA 20 + Years,why so much drama about it at states??
i dont get it..and cos i read all the social media fans post and have conversations,there is NO such a big deal how things worked
and seems to me,some people try to find problems,even slightly ones,so just to continue talkin g about an issue..
just go,and enjoy the show..and from what ALL we saw at videos GA at USA shows is so cool,easy,no pushing,no dangerous at all..all worked just fine,and not as WAR ZONE Some tried made it seem,when 10c announce the usa 2013 tour.
and something else..Almost ALL contact me or posting about tix,have a request only
"do u know anyone has GA so i can trade them with my reserved tix?"
its easy to see people want GA,and things working just find..
if the issue is a few cut the line,,yeah right,assholes are everywhere..we knew that before GA show up at usa tour..
"..That's One Happy Fuckin Ghost.."
“..That came up on the Pillow Case...This is for the Greek, With Our Apologies.....”
I'm not being mean, i'm just saying a lot of people that have kids don't have 12 hours to sit in a line and some people don't understand that.
As far as the whole ga process I think the Bruce method could work extremely well. If it doesn't happen I know that I'll never be on the rail. Not a big deal. I walked into ga at brooklyn 1 15 minutes before the band went on and I was 8 people deep in front of stone; this is better than 95% of the people in the building.