OPEN LETTER TO THE 10 CLUB & TIM BIERMAN TO CHANGE GA LINE

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Comments

  • GA is the best way to see them. They were born of it and are still made for it. I hope its kept GA up front. But I have a feeling that they will make the change to a BOSS-like system here soon.
    1/95 DC 7/95 Chicago Tor Tol Cha 96 AlpV I II Chi St L KC 98 BSB I II 99 Phx Vegas Fresno SBern 00 BSB I II 01 (met ed) Vegas Phx Fargo St. Paul Chicago Alpine V Indy Col Virg Phi I II MSG I II (got on DVD!) 03 Calg 05 Clev Vegas LA I II SBar 06 Lon Dus Cop Nij Bel 07 Phi I II DC MSG I II Har BOS I II 08, LA3/4, SD '09, MSG I II '10, Missoula, London ONT, Wrigley, SD, LA1/2, Portland. Wrigley '16 I and II. 
  • CorduroyboyCorduroyboy Posts: 1,254
    I'm not a fan of the system. It worked so so in LA and actually worked well in Oakland. I think it's an unnecessary thing to have when if you wait in line, you wait in line. You make friends with those around you and you have your spot. When you get let to the floor by security you run and grab your spot. I just don't see the need for something that in essence is already in place. However, in LA1, the security for the Sports Arena was lining people up by number which blew me away. They were taking part in what is a fan based system. Nothing anyone of authority has set up.
  • pdalowsky wrote:
    Holy shit. Another thread on this ?

    This subject is so overplayed. It's boring at this stage.

    Whilst the discussion is necessary - there was a thread 'the line and list' for this to be debated?

    Open letter? Why here, send it to Tenclub if its for them

    I bet they can't believe that a group of adults carry on like this.
    lol. I bet they can believe a group of adults will act like this. :fp:
    Just, not enough.
    I need more.
    Nothing seems to satisfy.
    I said, I dont want it.
    I just need it.
    To breathe, to feel, to know Im alive.
  • Perhaps a female fan getting mugged in Oakland early in the morning might spur some thought into changing the current system.
    1/95 DC 7/95 Chicago Tor Tol Cha 96 AlpV I II Chi St L KC 98 BSB I II 99 Phx Vegas Fresno SBern 00 BSB I II 01 (met ed) Vegas Phx Fargo St. Paul Chicago Alpine V Indy Col Virg Phi I II MSG I II (got on DVD!) 03 Calg 05 Clev Vegas LA I II SBar 06 Lon Dus Cop Nij Bel 07 Phi I II DC MSG I II Har BOS I II 08, LA3/4, SD '09, MSG I II '10, Missoula, London ONT, Wrigley, SD, LA1/2, Portland. Wrigley '16 I and II. 
  • YefaYefa Posts: 1,133
    I had GA for Worcester 2 and Seattle on this tour. I didn't try for the rail in Worcester. I was 10 people from the rail in front of Jeff & had a great time. My friend (who lives in the Seattle area) and I decided to line up early to get close for Seattle. I was a bit concerned about "the list" because of the stories I had read here about people getting great list numbers then enjoying the city and coming back an hour before doors to their old spot in line. I can say that didn't happen in Seattle. There were line checks at specific times (which were announced to all who were there) so all would know when the next one was. If you missed 1 line check you no longer had a number & had to get a new (worse) one if you so chose to get a number again. Here is when the line checks were held: 6am, 9am, 11:30am, 2pm, 4pm, 5pm. As you can see, it would be impossible to go enjoy the tourist sites of Seattle & make it back for the next line check. People were looking out for each other. Donuts and (lots of) coffee were bought for sharing with other fans. I met awesome fans from (among other places) Brazil, Italy, Australia, Canada, Rhode Island, Denver, Ohio, and NYC. I caught up with friends from Chicago I had met on the 1st leg. When it was time to go inside the Key we were walked in. I had the rail between an Italian man and Brazilian woman. This was my 58th PJ show and my first time on the rail. It was a memorable experience not only for the show (which I loved) but also for the people I shared it with. If GA can be run this way for future USA/Canada shows, then I think it can not only continue but flourish.
    You see me empty, Sir, do not pause and inquire, simply assume and refill.
    - Al Swearengen

    http://www.cantstoptheserenity.com
  • Yefa wrote:
    I had GA for Worcester 2 and Seattle on this tour. I didn't try for the rail in Worcester. I was 10 people from the rail in front of Jeff & had a great time. My friend (who lives in the Seattle area) and I decided to line up early to get close for Seattle. I was a bit concerned about "the list" because of the stories I had read here about people getting great list numbers then enjoying the city and coming back an hour before doors to their old spot in line. I can say that didn't happen in Seattle. There were line checks at specific times (which were announced to all who were there) so all would know when the next one was. If you missed 1 line check you no longer had a number & had to get a new (worse) one if you so chose to get a number again. Here is when the line checks were held: 6am, 9am, 11:30am, 2pm, 4pm, 5pm. As you can see, it would be impossible to go enjoy the tourist sites of Seattle & make it back for the next line check. People were looking out for each other. Donuts and (lots of) coffee were bought for sharing with other fans. I met awesome fans from (among other places) Brazil, Italy, Australia, Canada, Rhode Island, Denver, Ohio, and NYC. I caught up with friends from Chicago I had met on the 1st leg. When it was time to go inside the Key we were walked in. I had the rail between an Italian man and Brazilian woman. This was my 58th PJ show and my first time on the rail. It was a memorable experience not only for the show (which I loved) but also for the people I shared it with. If GA can be run this way for future USA/Canada shows, then I think it can not only continue but flourish.


    Hey that sounds alright. Glad to hear it went well. Who ran the checks? Did you see any real enforcing of anyone being made to actually lose their number and go to the end? Just curious on who was in charge of enforcing.
    1/95 DC 7/95 Chicago Tor Tol Cha 96 AlpV I II Chi St L KC 98 BSB I II 99 Phx Vegas Fresno SBern 00 BSB I II 01 (met ed) Vegas Phx Fargo St. Paul Chicago Alpine V Indy Col Virg Phi I II MSG I II (got on DVD!) 03 Calg 05 Clev Vegas LA I II SBar 06 Lon Dus Cop Nij Bel 07 Phi I II DC MSG I II Har BOS I II 08, LA3/4, SD '09, MSG I II '10, Missoula, London ONT, Wrigley, SD, LA1/2, Portland. Wrigley '16 I and II. 
  • YefaYefa Posts: 1,133
    Yefa wrote:
    I had GA for Worcester 2 and Seattle on this tour. I didn't try for the rail in Worcester. I was 10 people from the rail in front of Jeff & had a great time. My friend (who lives in the Seattle area) and I decided to line up early to get close for Seattle. I was a bit concerned about "the list" because of the stories I had read here about people getting great list numbers then enjoying the city and coming back an hour before doors to their old spot in line. I can say that didn't happen in Seattle. There were line checks at specific times (which were announced to all who were there) so all would know when the next one was. If you missed 1 line check you no longer had a number & had to get a new (worse) one if you so chose to get a number again. Here is when the line checks were held: 6am, 9am, 11:30am, 2pm, 4pm, 5pm. As you can see, it would be impossible to go enjoy the tourist sites of Seattle & make it back for the next line check. People were looking out for each other. Donuts and (lots of) coffee were bought for sharing with other fans. I met awesome fans from (among other places) Brazil, Italy, Australia, Canada, Rhode Island, Denver, Ohio, and NYC. I caught up with friends from Chicago I had met on the 1st leg. When it was time to go inside the Key we were walked in. I had the rail between an Italian man and Brazilian woman. This was my 58th PJ show and my first time on the rail. It was a memorable experience not only for the show (which I loved) but also for the people I shared it with. If GA can be run this way for future USA/Canada shows, then I think it can not only continue but flourish.


    Hey that sounds alright. Glad to hear it went well. Who ran the checks? Did you see any real enforcing of anyone being made to actually lose their number and go to the end? Just curious on who was in charge of enforcing.
    I only caught the name of 1 of the people who ran the checks. Her name was Kelly. She was good about communicating with security & keeping us informed about policies.
    People lost their numbers because they showed up Thursday night and left (before we were kicked out) to go back to their hotels or elsewhere without coming back at all. That is how my number improved a few spots from Thursday night to Friday morning.
    You see me empty, Sir, do not pause and inquire, simply assume and refill.
    - Al Swearengen

    http://www.cantstoptheserenity.com
  • PJ_SoulPJ_Soul Vancouver, BC Posts: 49,473
    Perhaps a female fan getting mugged in Oakland early in the morning might spur some thought into changing the current system.
    Ugh. That was horrible. That poor girl. I felt so awful for her; what a nightmare. Awesome that so many people stepped up to help her, but shit.... Yeah, it would be nice to have a simple system that prevents extremely eager people from hanging around some downtown arena in a strange city during the wee hours.
    With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
  • SuziemaySuziemay Posts: 11,164
    Perhaps a female fan getting mugged in Oakland early in the morning might spur some thought into changing the current system.
    This is ridiculous. We are all adults making decisions at our own free will. I'm as eager as the next person to get on the rail, but I refused to show up at the Oakland venue on my own without knowing if there would be others around. I don't love anything enough to put myself in danger. I feel for the young lady who got robbed, no one deserves that, but she also made the decision to be in an unsafe area in the middle of the night. It's called using common sense. No amount of rules imposed by 10c about how and where to wait in line will prevent such things from happening.
  • Suziemay wrote:
    Perhaps a female fan getting mugged in Oakland early in the morning might spur some thought into changing the current system.
    This is ridiculous. We are all adults making decisions at our own free will. I'm as eager as the next person to get on the rail, but I refused to show up at the Oakland venue on my own without knowing if there would be others around. I don't love anything enough to put myself in danger. I feel for the young lady who got robbed, no one deserves that, but she also made the decision to be in an unsafe area in the middle of the night. It's called using common sense. No amount of rules imposed by 10c about how and where to wait in line will prevent such things from happening.

    If 10Club changes it to a system that eliminated the need to wait in line all day, no one would feel compelled to hang out by an arena in early morning hours to earn the rail.
    1/95 DC 7/95 Chicago Tor Tol Cha 96 AlpV I II Chi St L KC 98 BSB I II 99 Phx Vegas Fresno SBern 00 BSB I II 01 (met ed) Vegas Phx Fargo St. Paul Chicago Alpine V Indy Col Virg Phi I II MSG I II (got on DVD!) 03 Calg 05 Clev Vegas LA I II SBar 06 Lon Dus Cop Nij Bel 07 Phi I II DC MSG I II Har BOS I II 08, LA3/4, SD '09, MSG I II '10, Missoula, London ONT, Wrigley, SD, LA1/2, Portland. Wrigley '16 I and II. 
  • SuziemaySuziemay Posts: 11,164
    Suziemay wrote:
    Perhaps a female fan getting mugged in Oakland early in the morning might spur some thought into changing the current system.
    This is ridiculous. We are all adults making decisions at our own free will. I'm as eager as the next person to get on the rail, but I refused to show up at the Oakland venue on my own without knowing if there would be others around. I don't love anything enough to put myself in danger. I feel for the young lady who got robbed, no one deserves that, but she also made the decision to be in an unsafe area in the middle of the night. It's called using common sense. No amount of rules imposed by 10c about how and where to wait in line will prevent such things from happening.

    If 10Club changes it to a system that eliminated the need to wait in line all day, no one would feel compelled to hang out by an arena in early morning hours to earn the rail.
    So 10c should change the way GA works and ruin it for the people who like the way it works just fine because some of us aren't smart enough to prioritize safety? I think front row should 100% be earned, and not just handed to you by some lottery/luck. It's nice if that happens occasionally but if that's how you get to the front all the time, I can guarantee that the energy level will drop. GA has been off the charts this tour because the people who are hungriest are the people up close.
  • RE4790RE4790 Posts: 795
    Suziemay wrote:
    So 10c should change the way GA works and ruin it for the people who like the way it works just fine because some of us aren't smart enough to prioritize safety? I think front row should 100% be earned, and not just handed to you by some lottery/luck. It's nice if that happens occasionally but if that's how you get to the front all the time, I can guarantee that the energy level will drop. GA has been off the charts this tour because the people who are hungriest are the people up close.

    So... the same arguments made in favor of the ticket lotto could be made here. Should someone who works and cannot spend all day in line (teacher, nurse, etc.) never get a shot at the rail because of the people whose lifestyle and finances allow them to sit for 12 hours in the cold to get up front? What I am saying is that it's not 'earned' if the competition isn't even.

    I'm not trying to troll you suziemay, I saw your pics on twitter and I think it's amazing that the community still has fans like you that are dedicated and energetic every show while simultaneously being humble and appreciative about getting to see the last great arena rock band. And I agree with you about the GA line being first come first serve type thing (assuming that they keep the current silly two ticket option plan), I'm just trying to say that we shouldn't pretend that a GA line is 'fair' to all 10c members just because some of the most hardcore get the chance to get up front.

    But again, I agree that what you work for is that which is valued (oh sh*t, I sound like Ayn Rand right there) and that helps keep the energy high in the very front. And it looked like everyone in the Seattle line was working hard to stay warm. ;)
  • SuziemaySuziemay Posts: 11,164
    RE4790 wrote:
    Suziemay wrote:
    So 10c should change the way GA works and ruin it for the people who like the way it works just fine because some of us aren't smart enough to prioritize safety? I think front row should 100% be earned, and not just handed to you by some lottery/luck. It's nice if that happens occasionally but if that's how you get to the front all the time, I can guarantee that the energy level will drop. GA has been off the charts this tour because the people who are hungriest are the people up close.

    So... the same arguments made in favor of the ticket lotto could be made here. Should someone who works and cannot spend all day in line (teacher, nurse, etc.) never get a shot at the rail because of the people whose lifestyle and finances allow them to sit for 12 hours in the cold to get up front? What I am saying is that it's not 'earned' if the competition isn't even.

    I'm not trying to troll you suziemay, I saw your pics on twitter and I think it's amazing that the community still has fans like you that are dedicated and energetic every show while simultaneously being humble and appreciative about getting to see the last great arena rock band. And I agree with you about the GA line being first come first serve type thing (assuming that they keep the current silly two ticket option plan), I'm just trying to say that we shouldn't pretend that a GA line is 'fair' to all 10c members just because some of the most hardcore get the chance to get up front.

    But again, I agree that what you work for is that which is valued (oh sh*t, I sound like Ayn Rand right there) and that helps keep the energy high in the very front. And it looked like everyone in the Seattle line was working hard to stay warm. ;)
    I'm not opposed to having some sort of lottery that people can win their way to the front, but I am opposed to it being the only way to get to the front. It really deflates the enthusiasm for someone like me who is willing to do whatever it takes to get up close to have to leave it to luck where someone who may not care as much "wins" front row just because they bought a ticket and invested little much else into the process. I completely respect that people who have other commitments, but I will also say that we all make our choices in how we use our time and resources. There were plenty of people waiting in line who went through great lengths to arrange their schedule so that they could be there, myself included.

    We might just have to agree to disagree ;) I completely respect your opinion, I just happen to have a different one and I'm sure we can debate this until we are blue in the face but I am not changing my opinion and I suspect neither are you!
  • RE4790RE4790 Posts: 795
    Suziemay wrote:
    We might just have to agree to disagree ;) I completely respect your opinion, I just happen to have a different one and I'm sure we can debate this until we are blue in the face but I am not changing my opinion and I suspect neither are you!

    This could be a first for the entire Internet. :thumbup:

    And not to sound too patronizing, but I agree it's better that people who are willing to rock out during the 75th time they hear Even Flow be up front than someone who got there by random chance and is sitting and checking their phone, hoping for some obscure b-side.
  • thefixer9thefixer9 Posts: 9,376
    I still think the GA line was silly....I only stood in line for about 40 minutes before the doors opened and I was like five rows behind the stage. I was next to people that waited in line for 5 hours... :?
    Tres Mts- 3/16/2011
    Eddie Vedder- 7/16/11
    Brad- 4/21/12 (RSD Performance), 4/27/12, 8/10/12
    Flight To Mars- 5/23/12
    RNDM- 11/27/12

    PEARL JAM- 12/6/13 I have finally seen Pearl Jam live!
  • SuziemaySuziemay Posts: 11,164
    RE4790 wrote:
    Suziemay wrote:
    We might just have to agree to disagree ;) I completely respect your opinion, I just happen to have a different one and I'm sure we can debate this until we are blue in the face but I am not changing my opinion and I suspect neither are you!

    This could be a first for the entire Internet. :thumbup:

    And not to sound too patronizing, but I agree it's better that people who are willing to rock out during the 75th time they hear Even Flow be up front than someone who got there by random chance and is sitting and checking their phone, hoping for some obscure b-side.
    :D:D:D

    I want to hug it out but since I can't find the appropriate smiley, I'm going to share a beer with you instead. Our differences is what makes the world go around, important thing to remember is we are all here because we love the crap out of Pearl Jam2.gif
  • SuziemaySuziemay Posts: 11,164
    thefixer9 wrote:
    I still think the GA line was silly....I only stood in line for about 40 minutes before the doors opened and I was like five rows behind the stage. I was next to people that waited in line for 5 hours... :?
    Waiting in line is only worth it if you want to get on the rail. If you just want to be "close", don't bother.

    I will say being on the rail is life-changing. Haven't met someone yet who has been on the rail and said it wasn't worth all that time waiting in line.
  • thefixer9thefixer9 Posts: 9,376
    Suziemay wrote:
    thefixer9 wrote:
    I still think the GA line was silly....I only stood in line for about 40 minutes before the doors opened and I was like five rows behind the stage. I was next to people that waited in line for 5 hours... :?
    Waiting in line is only worth it if you want to get on the rail. If you just want to be "close", don't bother.

    I will say being on the rail is life-changing. Haven't met someone yet who has been on the rail and said it wasn't worth all that time waiting in line.

    Oh no, Rail is great....never been rail for a PJ concert...but been on Rail for other great concerts, Brad, RNDM...ect...But I think my spot was almost just as good...I could see the whole band great.
    Tres Mts- 3/16/2011
    Eddie Vedder- 7/16/11
    Brad- 4/21/12 (RSD Performance), 4/27/12, 8/10/12
    Flight To Mars- 5/23/12
    RNDM- 11/27/12

    PEARL JAM- 12/6/13 I have finally seen Pearl Jam live!
  • SuziemaySuziemay Posts: 11,164
    thefixer9 wrote:
    Suziemay wrote:
    thefixer9 wrote:
    I still think the GA line was silly....I only stood in line for about 40 minutes before the doors opened and I was like five rows behind the stage. I was next to people that waited in line for 5 hours... :?
    Waiting in line is only worth it if you want to get on the rail. If you just want to be "close", don't bother.

    I will say being on the rail is life-changing. Haven't met someone yet who has been on the rail and said it wasn't worth all that time waiting in line.

    Oh no, Rail is great....never been rail for a PJ concert...but been on Rail for other great concerts, Brad, RNDM...ect...But I think my spot was almost just as good...I could see the whole band great.
    Then you are GOLDEN!! If you're happy with your 5th row spot then yes, crazy silly to wait in line for hours.
  • thefixer9thefixer9 Posts: 9,376
    Exactly! Either way...I just hope that it was worth it for the people that waited in line all day.
    Tres Mts- 3/16/2011
    Eddie Vedder- 7/16/11
    Brad- 4/21/12 (RSD Performance), 4/27/12, 8/10/12
    Flight To Mars- 5/23/12
    RNDM- 11/27/12

    PEARL JAM- 12/6/13 I have finally seen Pearl Jam live!
  • SuziemaySuziemay Posts: 11,164
    thefixer9 wrote:
    Exactly! Either way...I just hope that it was worth it for the people that waited in line all day.
    ABSOFUCKINGLUTELY :mrgreen::mrgreen::mrgreen:
  • thefixer9thefixer9 Posts: 9,376
    Suziemay wrote:
    thefixer9 wrote:
    Exactly! Either way...I just hope that it was worth it for the people that waited in line all day.
    ABSOFUCKINGLUTELY :mrgreen::mrgreen::mrgreen:

    You had rail for Seattle, right? I'm so glad you had a great time!!!! :mrgreen:
    Tres Mts- 3/16/2011
    Eddie Vedder- 7/16/11
    Brad- 4/21/12 (RSD Performance), 4/27/12, 8/10/12
    Flight To Mars- 5/23/12
    RNDM- 11/27/12

    PEARL JAM- 12/6/13 I have finally seen Pearl Jam live!
  • SuziemaySuziemay Posts: 11,164
    thefixer9 wrote:
    Suziemay wrote:
    thefixer9 wrote:
    Exactly! Either way...I just hope that it was worth it for the people that waited in line all day.
    ABSOFUCKINGLUTELY :mrgreen::mrgreen::mrgreen:

    You had rail for Seattle, right? I'm so glad you had a great time!!!! :mrgreen:
    Yes! With the neon orange MATT FUCKING CAMERON sign Stone's side :):):) It was magical.
  • Mamasan BrenMamasan Bren Posts: 959
    Glad 10 Club addressed the line and the list, and have spoken out harshly against it. Let's hope the Fall tour is A ok and it no longer comes into being.
    1/95 DC 7/95 Chicago Tor Tol Cha 96 AlpV I II Chi St L KC 98 BSB I II 99 Phx Vegas Fresno SBern 00 BSB I II 01 (met ed) Vegas Phx Fargo St. Paul Chicago Alpine V Indy Col Virg Phi I II MSG I II (got on DVD!) 03 Calg 05 Clev Vegas LA I II SBar 06 Lon Dus Cop Nij Bel 07 Phi I II DC MSG I II Har BOS I II 08, LA3/4, SD '09, MSG I II '10, Missoula, London ONT, Wrigley, SD, LA1/2, Portland. Wrigley '16 I and II. 
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