NBA Thread now in 2015

pjhawks

mrussel1 said:

At one point Lbj scored or assisted on 27 straight points. How can anyone say he isn't an all time great? He had been unreal this series.

i don't think anyone has said that. Lebron wasn't great early in the series but has been unreal the last two games.

I don't think the Warriors got a favorable whistle last night but don't think it had much to do with the outcome. I just hope game 7 comes down to the wire.

g under p

The key to the game this Sunday will be the health of Igwiedala. If his back seizes up the Warriors will be in serious trouble because he's the one that can somewhat contain LJ. Besides that the pressure is on Warriors.

Peace

Jason P

Doesn't the NBA know Game of Thrones is on at 9pm Sunday?

mrussel1

g under p said:

The key to the game this Sunday will be the health of Igwiedala. If his back seizes up the Warriors will be in serious trouble because he's the one that can somewhat contain LJ. Besides that the pressure is on Warriors.

Peace

Couldn't agree more. Health wasnt an issue for GS last year. It was for the Cavs. Now it flipped although not to the same degree.

mrussel1

pjhawks said:

mrussel1 said:

At one point Lbj scored or assisted on 27 straight points. How can anyone say he isn't an all time great? He had been unreal this series.

i don't think anyone has said that. Lebron wasn't great early in the series but has been unreal the last two games.

I don't think the Warriors got a favorable whistle last night but don't think it had much to do with the outcome. I just hope game 7 comes down to the wire.

No one here but lots of people do. Start with Skip Bayless

Ledbetterman10

igotid88 said:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V9hNrRxEf9E

I fucking loved this. Translation: "Get that weak the shit the fuck outta here." He had a similar block on Draymond earlier in the 4th quarter where Draymond, like Curry, got right underneath the basket, and rather than going up strong, tried to pump fake. Lebron didn't leave his feat on the fake, and swatted that shit when Draymond tried to go up with it.

mrussel1

mrussel1 said:

pjhawks said:

mrussel1 said:

At one point Lbj scored or assisted on 27 straight points. How can anyone say he isn't an all time great? He had been unreal this series.

i don't think anyone has said that. Lebron wasn't great early in the series but has been unreal the last two games.

I don't think the Warriors got a favorable whistle last night but don't think it had much to do with the outcome. I just hope game 7 comes down to the wire.

I don't hope it's close. The Drive, The Fumble, The Shot, Jose Mesa's blown save. ... we don't need another one.

mrussel1

https://mobile.twitter.com/L_Bell26/status/743670676733628416

Ledbetterman10

mrussel1 said:

https://mobile.twitter.com/L_Bell26/status/743670676733628416

I was actually thinking that last night. Won't happen though. And probably shouldn't happen. It's happened in the 1969 Finals, the 1960 World Series, and Super Bowl 5 though. But those were all like 50 years ago.

Degeneratefk

The Juggler said:

Degeneratefk said:

The Juggler said:

Degeneratefk said:

The Juggler said:

Degeneratefk said:

The Juggler said:

He's one of the best to ever play the game. You guys realize "best player on the floor" and "most valuable player" are two different things right?

Hell of a game 5, no doubt. Doing his part in getting Green suspended certainly helped as he had no problems driving to the basket. But I don't think he played very well in the first two games (9/21 and 7/17 are not good shooting percentages at all).

Let's see what happens next.

Take Lebron off the cavs and they aren't a playoff team. Take Klay or Curran off GS, and they're still the best team in the west. That's what an MVP is.

You think if they remove the reigning two time MVP, the Warriars are still the best team in the league?

Ha

Yes. Very minimum they'd be a 3 seed. Still, the cavs wouldn't even be a playoff team without lebron.

no.

Yes

Can you explain how he unanimously won the mvp two years in a row? Seems to directly contradict your entire argument.

My argument is that Lebron, regardless of the outcome of the series, is the finals MVP. He is leading both teams in every offensive category. I don't disagree that steph is one of the best shooters of all time. I dont disagree with him winning the MVP award. But what is the MVP? Is it the most valuable player? Or is it best player in the league that year? There's a difference. And in my opinion, if you ask the question "how good is this team if he wasn't playing'" you will see who really is the most valuable.

For example, you could argue that Peyton manning could have won the MVP his last season with the colts. With Peyton, the Colts were a super bowl contender. Without peyton, they got the first overall pick the next year.


I also think that Lebron jumps into Michael Jordan status if the cavs win this series.

pjhawks

mrussel1 said:

pjhawks said:

mrussel1 said:

At one point Lbj scored or assisted on 27 straight points. How can anyone say he isn't an all time great? He had been unreal this series.

i don't think anyone has said that. Lebron wasn't great early in the series but has been unreal the last two games.

I don't think the Warriors got a favorable whistle last night but don't think it had much to do with the outcome. I just hope game 7 comes down to the wire.

No one here but lots of people do. Start with Skip Bayless

Skip Bayless is an utter clown whose job is to take a contrarian view to start an argument.

pjhawks

Degeneratefk said:

The Juggler said:

Degeneratefk said:

The Juggler said:

Degeneratefk said:

The Juggler said:

Degeneratefk said:

The Juggler said:

He's one of the best to ever play the game. You guys realize "best player on the floor" and "most valuable player" are two different things right?

Hell of a game 5, no doubt. Doing his part in getting Green suspended certainly helped as he had no problems driving to the basket. But I don't think he played very well in the first two games (9/21 and 7/17 are not good shooting percentages at all).

Let's see what happens next.

Take Lebron off the cavs and they aren't a playoff team. Take Klay or Curran off GS, and they're still the best team in the west. That's what an MVP is.

You think if they remove the reigning two time MVP, the Warriars are still the best team in the league?

Ha

Yes. Very minimum they'd be a 3 seed. Still, the cavs wouldn't even be a playoff team without lebron.

no.

Yes

Can you explain how he unanimously won the mvp two years in a row? Seems to directly contradict your entire argument.

My argument is that Lebron, regardless of the outcome of the series, is the finals MVP. He is leading both teams in every offensive category. I don't disagree that steph is one of the best shooters of all time. I dont disagree with him winning the MVP award. But what is the MVP? Is it the most valuable player? Or is it best player in the league that year? There's a difference. And in my opinion, if you ask the question "how good is this team if he wasn't playing'" you will see who really is the most valuable.

For example, you could argue that Peyton manning could have won the MVP his last season with the colts. With Peyton, the Colts were a super bowl contender. Without peyton, they got the first overall pick the next year.


I also think that Lebron jumps into Michael Jordan status if the cavs win this series.

umm no. I think he gets into Magic and Bird territory with a win but still needs work to get to Jordan in my opinion.

Degeneratefk

pjhawks said:

Degeneratefk said:

The Juggler said:

Degeneratefk said:

The Juggler said:

Degeneratefk said:

The Juggler said:

Degeneratefk said:

The Juggler said:

He's one of the best to ever play the game. You guys realize "best player on the floor" and "most valuable player" are two different things right?

Hell of a game 5, no doubt. Doing his part in getting Green suspended certainly helped as he had no problems driving to the basket. But I don't think he played very well in the first two games (9/21 and 7/17 are not good shooting percentages at all).

Let's see what happens next.

Take Lebron off the cavs and they aren't a playoff team. Take Klay or Curran off GS, and they're still the best team in the west. That's what an MVP is.

You think if they remove the reigning two time MVP, the Warriars are still the best team in the league?

Ha

Yes. Very minimum they'd be a 3 seed. Still, the cavs wouldn't even be a playoff team without lebron.

no.

Yes

Can you explain how he unanimously won the mvp two years in a row? Seems to directly contradict your entire argument.

My argument is that Lebron, regardless of the outcome of the series, is the finals MVP. He is leading both teams in every offensive category. I don't disagree that steph is one of the best shooters of all time. I dont disagree with him winning the MVP award. But what is the MVP? Is it the most valuable player? Or is it best player in the league that year? There's a difference. And in my opinion, if you ask the question "how good is this team if he wasn't playing'" you will see who really is the most valuable.

For example, you could argue that Peyton manning could have won the MVP his last season with the colts. With Peyton, the Colts were a super bowl contender. Without peyton, they got the first overall pick the next year.


I also think that Lebron jumps into Michael Jordan status if the cavs win this series.

umm no. I think he gets into Magic and Bird territory with a win but still needs work to get to Jordan in my opinion.

Nobody is a bigger fan of Jordan or the Bulls than I was in the 90s. No, LeBron isn't 6 for 6 in the finals. But hes gone to 6 straight and won 3 of them. That's an elite class. I didn't say he was better, just that he can be talked about in the same class as jordan.

mrussel1

Degeneratefk said:

pjhawks said:

Degeneratefk said:

The Juggler said:

Degeneratefk said:

The Juggler said:

Degeneratefk said:

The Juggler said:

Degeneratefk said:

The Juggler said:

He's one of the best to ever play the game. You guys realize "best player on the floor" and "most valuable player" are two different things right?

Hell of a game 5, no doubt. Doing his part in getting Green suspended certainly helped as he had no problems driving to the basket. But I don't think he played very well in the first two games (9/21 and 7/17 are not good shooting percentages at all).

Let's see what happens next.

Take Lebron off the cavs and they aren't a playoff team. Take Klay or Curran off GS, and they're still the best team in the west. That's what an MVP is.

You think if they remove the reigning two time MVP, the Warriars are still the best team in the league?

Ha

Yes. Very minimum they'd be a 3 seed. Still, the cavs wouldn't even be a playoff team without lebron.

no.

Yes

Can you explain how he unanimously won the mvp two years in a row? Seems to directly contradict your entire argument.

My argument is that Lebron, regardless of the outcome of the series, is the finals MVP. He is leading both teams in every offensive category. I don't disagree that steph is one of the best shooters of all time. I dont disagree with him winning the MVP award. But what is the MVP? Is it the most valuable player? Or is it best player in the league that year? There's a difference. And in my opinion, if you ask the question "how good is this team if he wasn't playing'" you will see who really is the most valuable.

For example, you could argue that Peyton manning could have won the MVP his last season with the colts. With Peyton, the Colts were a super bowl contender. Without peyton, they got the first overall pick the next year.


I also think that Lebron jumps into Michael Jordan status if the cavs win this series.

umm no. I think he gets into Magic and Bird territory with a win but still needs work to get to Jordan in my opinion.

Nobody is a bigger fan of Jordan or the Bulls than I was in the 90s. No, LeBron isn't 6 for 6 in the finals. But hes gone to 6 straight and won 3 of them. That's an elite class. I didn't say he was better, just that he can be talked about in the same class as jordan.

Exactly. Who cares who is better. They are both the player of their generation. They are both a joy to watch. Jordan was more of a killer but Lbj is much more rounded of a player. He's also MUCH better off the court. Just enjoy what we have here! I just get annoyed when people disparage Lebron. I hated him in Miami of course. But I never pretended he wasn't the best in the game.

igotid88

The Juggler said:

igotid88 said:

The Juggler said:

Degeneratefk said:

The Juggler said:

He's one of the best to ever play the game. You guys realize "best player on the floor" and "most valuable player" are two different things right?

Hell of a game 5, no doubt. Doing his part in getting Green suspended certainly helped as he had no problems driving to the basket. But I don't think he played very well in the first two games (9/21 and 7/17 are not good shooting percentages at all).

Let's see what happens next.

Take Lebron off the cavs and they aren't a playoff team. Take Klay or Curran off GS, and they're still the best team in the west. That's what an MVP is.

You think if they remove the reigning two time MVP, the Warriars are still the best team in the league?

Ha

Yea. I think Klay is more valuable

Ha.....wait, seriously?......what are you basing this on?

What is your argument (other than you don't like Steph)?

I don't don't like Steph. I just think Klay doesn't get as much credit

Degeneratefk

mrussel1 said:

Degeneratefk said:

pjhawks said:

Degeneratefk said:

The Juggler said:

Degeneratefk said:

The Juggler said:

Degeneratefk said:

The Juggler said:

Degeneratefk said:

The Juggler said:

He's one of the best to ever play the game. You guys realize "best player on the floor" and "most valuable player" are two different things right?

Hell of a game 5, no doubt. Doing his part in getting Green suspended certainly helped as he had no problems driving to the basket. But I don't think he played very well in the first two games (9/21 and 7/17 are not good shooting percentages at all).

Let's see what happens next.

Take Lebron off the cavs and they aren't a playoff team. Take Klay or Curran off GS, and they're still the best team in the west. That's what an MVP is.

You think if they remove the reigning two time MVP, the Warriars are still the best team in the league?

Ha

Yes. Very minimum they'd be a 3 seed. Still, the cavs wouldn't even be a playoff team without lebron.

no.

Yes

Can you explain how he unanimously won the mvp two years in a row? Seems to directly contradict your entire argument.

My argument is that Lebron, regardless of the outcome of the series, is the finals MVP. He is leading both teams in every offensive category. I don't disagree that steph is one of the best shooters of all time. I dont disagree with him winning the MVP award. But what is the MVP? Is it the most valuable player? Or is it best player in the league that year? There's a difference. And in my opinion, if you ask the question "how good is this team if he wasn't playing'" you will see who really is the most valuable.

For example, you could argue that Peyton manning could have won the MVP his last season with the colts. With Peyton, the Colts were a super bowl contender. Without peyton, they got the first overall pick the next year.


I also think that Lebron jumps into Michael Jordan status if the cavs win this series.

umm no. I think he gets into Magic and Bird territory with a win but still needs work to get to Jordan in my opinion.

Nobody is a bigger fan of Jordan or the Bulls than I was in the 90s. No, LeBron isn't 6 for 6 in the finals. But hes gone to 6 straight and won 3 of them. That's an elite class. I didn't say he was better, just that he can be talked about in the same class as jordan.

Exactly. Who cares who is better. They are both the player of their generation. They are both a joy to watch. Jordan was more of a killer but Lbj is much more rounded of a player. He's also MUCH better off the court. Just enjoy what we have here! I just get annoyed when people disparage Lebron. I hated him in Miami of course. But I never pretended he wasn't the best in the game.

Much better off the court?

mrussel1

Degeneratefk said:

mrussel1 said:

Degeneratefk said:

pjhawks said:

Degeneratefk said:

The Juggler said:

Degeneratefk said:

The Juggler said:

Degeneratefk said:

The Juggler said:

Degeneratefk said:

The Juggler said:

He's one of the best to ever play the game. You guys realize "best player on the floor" and "most valuable player" are two different things right?

Hell of a game 5, no doubt. Doing his part in getting Green suspended certainly helped as he had no problems driving to the basket. But I don't think he played very well in the first two games (9/21 and 7/17 are not good shooting percentages at all).

Let's see what happens next.

Take Lebron off the cavs and they aren't a playoff team. Take Klay or Curran off GS, and they're still the best team in the west. That's what an MVP is.

You think if they remove the reigning two time MVP, the Warriars are still the best team in the league?

Ha

Yes. Very minimum they'd be a 3 seed. Still, the cavs wouldn't even be a playoff team without lebron.

no.

Yes

Can you explain how he unanimously won the mvp two years in a row? Seems to directly contradict your entire argument.

My argument is that Lebron, regardless of the outcome of the series, is the finals MVP. He is leading both teams in every offensive category. I don't disagree that steph is one of the best shooters of all time. I dont disagree with him winning the MVP award. But what is the MVP? Is it the most valuable player? Or is it best player in the league that year? There's a difference. And in my opinion, if you ask the question "how good is this team if he wasn't playing'" you will see who really is the most valuable.

For example, you could argue that Peyton manning could have won the MVP his last season with the colts. With Peyton, the Colts were a super bowl contender. Without peyton, they got the first overall pick the next year.


I also think that Lebron jumps into Michael Jordan status if the cavs win this series.

umm no. I think he gets into Magic and Bird territory with a win but still needs work to get to Jordan in my opinion.

Nobody is a bigger fan of Jordan or the Bulls than I was in the 90s. No, LeBron isn't 6 for 6 in the finals. But hes gone to 6 straight and won 3 of them. That's an elite class. I didn't say he was better, just that he can be talked about in the same class as jordan.

Exactly. Who cares who is better. They are both the player of their generation. They are both a joy to watch. Jordan was more of a killer but Lbj is much more rounded of a player. He's also MUCH better off the court. Just enjoy what we have here! I just get annoyed when people disparage Lebron. I hated him in Miami of course. But I never pretended he wasn't the best in the game.

Much better off the court?

No gambling issues for one. And Jordan wasn't known for his charitable works (not saying he didn't do any, but it wasn't something people discussed). LBJ, by contrast, does so much for the city of Akron which is a very tough, depressed area. His foundation is pivotal in the community and for St Vincent St Mary. He puts in so much of his personal time in for the kids too. It's not just the money.

This is a kid that was on Sports Illustrated cover as a junior. He's been in the spotlight since day one. Yet he is married to his HS sweetheart with three kids. The guy has been an outstanding citizen despite the enormous pressure. He lives up to the standard that the Beebs has set for everyone.

g under p

mrussel1 said:

Degeneratefk said:

mrussel1 said:

Degeneratefk said:

pjhawks said:

Degeneratefk said:

The Juggler said:

Degeneratefk said:

The Juggler said:

Degeneratefk said:

The Juggler said:

Degeneratefk said:

The Juggler said:

He's one of the best to ever play the game. You guys realize "best player on the floor" and "most valuable player" are two different things right?

Hell of a game 5, no doubt. Doing his part in getting Green suspended certainly helped as he had no problems driving to the basket. But I don't think he played very well in the first two games (9/21 and 7/17 are not good shooting percentages at all).

Let's see what happens next.

Take Lebron off the cavs and they aren't a playoff team. Take Klay or Curran off GS, and they're still the best team in the west. That's what an MVP is.

You think if they remove the reigning two time MVP, the Warriars are still the best team in the league?

Ha

Yes. Very minimum they'd be a 3 seed. Still, the cavs wouldn't even be a playoff team without lebron.

no.

Yes

Can you explain how he unanimously won the mvp two years in a row? Seems to directly contradict your entire argument.

My argument is that Lebron, regardless of the outcome of the series, is the finals MVP. He is leading both teams in every offensive category. I don't disagree that steph is one of the best shooters of all time. I dont disagree with him winning the MVP award. But what is the MVP? Is it the most valuable player? Or is it best player in the league that year? There's a difference. And in my opinion, if you ask the question "how good is this team if he wasn't playing'" you will see who really is the most valuable.

For example, you could argue that Peyton manning could have won the MVP his last season with the colts. With Peyton, the Colts were a super bowl contender. Without peyton, they got the first overall pick the next year.


I also think that Lebron jumps into Michael Jordan status if the cavs win this series.

umm no. I think he gets into Magic and Bird territory with a win but still needs work to get to Jordan in my opinion.

Nobody is a bigger fan of Jordan or the Bulls than I was in the 90s. No, LeBron isn't 6 for 6 in the finals. But hes gone to 6 straight and won 3 of them. That's an elite class. I didn't say he was better, just that he can be talked about in the same class as jordan.

Exactly. Who cares who is better. They are both the player of their generation. They are both a joy to watch. Jordan was more of a killer but Lbj is much more rounded of a player. He's also MUCH better off the court. Just enjoy what we have here! I just get annoyed when people disparage Lebron. I hated him in Miami of course. But I never pretended he wasn't the best in the game.

Much better off the court?

No gambling issues for one. And Jordan wasn't known for his charitable works (not saying he didn't do any, but it wasn't something people discussed). LBJ, by contrast, does so much for the city of Akron which is a very tough, depressed area. His foundation is pivotal in the community and for St Vincent St Mary. He puts in so much of his personal time in for the kids too. It's not just the money.

This is a kid that was on Sports Illustrated cover as a junior. He's been in the spotlight since day one. Yet he is married to his HS sweetheart with three kids. The guy has been an outstanding citizen despite the enormous pressure. He lives up to the standard that the Beebs has set for everyone.

Now that's something I did not know and that is that he was on the cover of SI as a junior. That's some pressure to live up to for sure, that said I STILL will pick the Warriors to the title. Winning three games in a row is just too much to overcome.

Peace

Degeneratefk

mrussel1 said:

Degeneratefk said:

mrussel1 said:

Degeneratefk said:

pjhawks said:

Degeneratefk said:

The Juggler said:

Degeneratefk said:

The Juggler said:

Degeneratefk said:

The Juggler said:

Degeneratefk said:

The Juggler said:

He's one of the best to ever play the game. You guys realize "best player on the floor" and "most valuable player" are two different things right?

Hell of a game 5, no doubt. Doing his part in getting Green suspended certainly helped as he had no problems driving to the basket. But I don't think he played very well in the first two games (9/21 and 7/17 are not good shooting percentages at all).

Let's see what happens next.

Take Lebron off the cavs and they aren't a playoff team. Take Klay or Curran off GS, and they're still the best team in the west. That's what an MVP is.

You think if they remove the reigning two time MVP, the Warriars are still the best team in the league?

Ha

Yes. Very minimum they'd be a 3 seed. Still, the cavs wouldn't even be a playoff team without lebron.

no.

Yes

Can you explain how he unanimously won the mvp two years in a row? Seems to directly contradict your entire argument.

My argument is that Lebron, regardless of the outcome of the series, is the finals MVP. He is leading both teams in every offensive category. I don't disagree that steph is one of the best shooters of all time. I dont disagree with him winning the MVP award. But what is the MVP? Is it the most valuable player? Or is it best player in the league that year? There's a difference. And in my opinion, if you ask the question "how good is this team if he wasn't playing'" you will see who really is the most valuable.

For example, you could argue that Peyton manning could have won the MVP his last season with the colts. With Peyton, the Colts were a super bowl contender. Without peyton, they got the first overall pick the next year.


I also think that Lebron jumps into Michael Jordan status if the cavs win this series.

umm no. I think he gets into Magic and Bird territory with a win but still needs work to get to Jordan in my opinion.

Nobody is a bigger fan of Jordan or the Bulls than I was in the 90s. No, LeBron isn't 6 for 6 in the finals. But hes gone to 6 straight and won 3 of them. That's an elite class. I didn't say he was better, just that he can be talked about in the same class as jordan.

Exactly. Who cares who is better. They are both the player of their generation. They are both a joy to watch. Jordan was more of a killer but Lbj is much more rounded of a player. He's also MUCH better off the court. Just enjoy what we have here! I just get annoyed when people disparage Lebron. I hated him in Miami of course. But I never pretended he wasn't the best in the game.

Much better off the court?

No gambling issues for one. And Jordan wasn't known for his charitable works (not saying he didn't do any, but it wasn't something people discussed). LBJ, by contrast, does so much for the city of Akron which is a very tough, depressed area. His foundation is pivotal in the community and for St Vincent St Mary. He puts in so much of his personal time in for the kids too. It's not just the money.

This is a kid that was on Sports Illustrated cover as a junior. He's been in the spotlight since day one. Yet he is married to his HS sweetheart with three kids. The guy has been an outstanding citizen despite the enormous pressure. He lives up to the standard that the Beebs has set for everyone.

I thought you may go to the gambling. Really irrelevant when you're comparing the basketball. It's like saying Ty Cobb isn't one of the best hitters ever because he was a racist.

seanwon

pjhawks said:

Degeneratefk said:

The Juggler said:

Degeneratefk said:

The Juggler said:

Degeneratefk said:

The Juggler said:

Degeneratefk said:

The Juggler said:

He's one of the best to ever play the game. You guys realize "best player on the floor" and "most valuable player" are two different things right?

Hell of a game 5, no doubt. Doing his part in getting Green suspended certainly helped as he had no problems driving to the basket. But I don't think he played very well in the first two games (9/21 and 7/17 are not good shooting percentages at all).

Let's see what happens next.

Take Lebron off the cavs and they aren't a playoff team. Take Klay or Curran off GS, and they're still the best team in the west. That's what an MVP is.

You think if they remove the reigning two time MVP, the Warriars are still the best team in the league?

Ha

Yes. Very minimum they'd be a 3 seed. Still, the cavs wouldn't even be a playoff team without lebron.

no.

Yes

Can you explain how he unanimously won the mvp two years in a row? Seems to directly contradict your entire argument.

My argument is that Lebron, regardless of the outcome of the series, is the finals MVP. He is leading both teams in every offensive category. I don't disagree that steph is one of the best shooters of all time. I dont disagree with him winning the MVP award. But what is the MVP? Is it the most valuable player? Or is it best player in the league that year? There's a difference. And in my opinion, if you ask the question "how good is this team if he wasn't playing'" you will see who really is the most valuable.

For example, you could argue that Peyton manning could have won the MVP his last season with the colts. With Peyton, the Colts were a super bowl contender. Without peyton, they got the first overall pick the next year.


I also think that Lebron jumps into Michael Jordan status if the cavs win this series.

umm no. I think he gets into Magic and Bird territory with a win but still needs work to get to Jordan in my opinion.

In my opinion there is nothing he can do to get in Jordan's status. 6 for 6 with 6 Finals MVP's just can't be beat. But he has already surpassed Magic and Bird I think. Magic and Bird both lost multiple Finals, and they had far superior talent around them than Lebron has had for most of his career.