At one point Lbj scored or assisted on 27 straight points. How can anyone say he isn't an all time great? He had been unreal this series.
i don't think anyone has said that. Lebron wasn't great early in the series but has been unreal the last two games.
I don't think the Warriors got a favorable whistle last night but don't think it had much to do with the outcome. I just hope game 7 comes down to the wire.
No one here but lots of people do. Start with Skip Bayless
Skip Bayless is an utter clown whose job is to take a contrarian view to start an argument.
He's one of the best to ever play the game. You guys realize "best player on the floor" and "most valuable player" are two different things right?
Hell of a game 5, no doubt. Doing his part in getting Green suspended certainly helped as he had no problems driving to the basket. But I don't think he played very well in the first two games (9/21 and 7/17 are not good shooting percentages at all).
Let's see what happens next.
Take Lebron off the cavs and they aren't a playoff team. Take Klay or Curran off GS, and they're still the best team in the west. That's what an MVP is.
You think if they remove the reigning two time MVP, the Warriars are still the best team in the league?
Ha
Yes. Very minimum they'd be a 3 seed. Still, the cavs wouldn't even be a playoff team without lebron.
no.
Yes
Can you explain how he unanimously won the mvp two years in a row? Seems to directly contradict your entire argument.
My argument is that Lebron, regardless of the outcome of the series, is the finals MVP. He is leading both teams in every offensive category. I don't disagree that steph is one of the best shooters of all time. I dont disagree with him winning the MVP award. But what is the MVP? Is it the most valuable player? Or is it best player in the league that year? There's a difference. And in my opinion, if you ask the question "how good is this team if he wasn't playing'" you will see who really is the most valuable.
For example, you could argue that Peyton manning could have won the MVP his last season with the colts. With Peyton, the Colts were a super bowl contender. Without peyton, they got the first overall pick the next year.
I also think that Lebron jumps into Michael Jordan status if the cavs win this series.
umm no. I think he gets into Magic and Bird territory with a win but still needs work to get to Jordan in my opinion.
He's one of the best to ever play the game. You guys realize "best player on the floor" and "most valuable player" are two different things right?
Hell of a game 5, no doubt. Doing his part in getting Green suspended certainly helped as he had no problems driving to the basket. But I don't think he played very well in the first two games (9/21 and 7/17 are not good shooting percentages at all).
Let's see what happens next.
Take Lebron off the cavs and they aren't a playoff team. Take Klay or Curran off GS, and they're still the best team in the west. That's what an MVP is.
You think if they remove the reigning two time MVP, the Warriars are still the best team in the league?
Ha
Yes. Very minimum they'd be a 3 seed. Still, the cavs wouldn't even be a playoff team without lebron.
no.
Yes
Can you explain how he unanimously won the mvp two years in a row? Seems to directly contradict your entire argument.
My argument is that Lebron, regardless of the outcome of the series, is the finals MVP. He is leading both teams in every offensive category. I don't disagree that steph is one of the best shooters of all time. I dont disagree with him winning the MVP award. But what is the MVP? Is it the most valuable player? Or is it best player in the league that year? There's a difference. And in my opinion, if you ask the question "how good is this team if he wasn't playing'" you will see who really is the most valuable.
For example, you could argue that Peyton manning could have won the MVP his last season with the colts. With Peyton, the Colts were a super bowl contender. Without peyton, they got the first overall pick the next year.
I also think that Lebron jumps into Michael Jordan status if the cavs win this series.
umm no. I think he gets into Magic and Bird territory with a win but still needs work to get to Jordan in my opinion.
Nobody is a bigger fan of Jordan or the Bulls than I was in the 90s. No, LeBron isn't 6 for 6 in the finals. But hes gone to 6 straight and won 3 of them. That's an elite class. I didn't say he was better, just that he can be talked about in the same class as jordan.
will myself to find a home, a home within myself we will find a way, we will find our place
He's one of the best to ever play the game. You guys realize "best player on the floor" and "most valuable player" are two different things right?
Hell of a game 5, no doubt. Doing his part in getting Green suspended certainly helped as he had no problems driving to the basket. But I don't think he played very well in the first two games (9/21 and 7/17 are not good shooting percentages at all).
Let's see what happens next.
Take Lebron off the cavs and they aren't a playoff team. Take Klay or Curran off GS, and they're still the best team in the west. That's what an MVP is.
You think if they remove the reigning two time MVP, the Warriars are still the best team in the league?
Ha
Yes. Very minimum they'd be a 3 seed. Still, the cavs wouldn't even be a playoff team without lebron.
no.
Yes
Can you explain how he unanimously won the mvp two years in a row? Seems to directly contradict your entire argument.
My argument is that Lebron, regardless of the outcome of the series, is the finals MVP. He is leading both teams in every offensive category. I don't disagree that steph is one of the best shooters of all time. I dont disagree with him winning the MVP award. But what is the MVP? Is it the most valuable player? Or is it best player in the league that year? There's a difference. And in my opinion, if you ask the question "how good is this team if he wasn't playing'" you will see who really is the most valuable.
For example, you could argue that Peyton manning could have won the MVP his last season with the colts. With Peyton, the Colts were a super bowl contender. Without peyton, they got the first overall pick the next year.
I also think that Lebron jumps into Michael Jordan status if the cavs win this series.
umm no. I think he gets into Magic and Bird territory with a win but still needs work to get to Jordan in my opinion.
Nobody is a bigger fan of Jordan or the Bulls than I was in the 90s. No, LeBron isn't 6 for 6 in the finals. But hes gone to 6 straight and won 3 of them. That's an elite class. I didn't say he was better, just that he can be talked about in the same class as jordan.
Exactly. Who cares who is better. They are both the player of their generation. They are both a joy to watch. Jordan was more of a killer but Lbj is much more rounded of a player. He's also MUCH better off the court. Just enjoy what we have here! I just get annoyed when people disparage Lebron. I hated him in Miami of course. But I never pretended he wasn't the best in the game.
He's one of the best to ever play the game. You guys realize "best player on the floor" and "most valuable player" are two different things right?
Hell of a game 5, no doubt. Doing his part in getting Green suspended certainly helped as he had no problems driving to the basket. But I don't think he played very well in the first two games (9/21 and 7/17 are not good shooting percentages at all).
Let's see what happens next.
Take Lebron off the cavs and they aren't a playoff team. Take Klay or Curran off GS, and they're still the best team in the west. That's what an MVP is.
You think if they remove the reigning two time MVP, the Warriars are still the best team in the league?
Ha
Yea. I think Klay is more valuable
Ha.....wait, seriously?......what are you basing this on?
What is your argument (other than you don't like Steph)?
I don't don't like Steph. I just think Klay doesn't get as much credit
He's one of the best to ever play the game. You guys realize "best player on the floor" and "most valuable player" are two different things right?
Hell of a game 5, no doubt. Doing his part in getting Green suspended certainly helped as he had no problems driving to the basket. But I don't think he played very well in the first two games (9/21 and 7/17 are not good shooting percentages at all).
Let's see what happens next.
Take Lebron off the cavs and they aren't a playoff team. Take Klay or Curran off GS, and they're still the best team in the west. That's what an MVP is.
You think if they remove the reigning two time MVP, the Warriars are still the best team in the league?
Ha
Yes. Very minimum they'd be a 3 seed. Still, the cavs wouldn't even be a playoff team without lebron.
no.
Yes
Can you explain how he unanimously won the mvp two years in a row? Seems to directly contradict your entire argument.
My argument is that Lebron, regardless of the outcome of the series, is the finals MVP. He is leading both teams in every offensive category. I don't disagree that steph is one of the best shooters of all time. I dont disagree with him winning the MVP award. But what is the MVP? Is it the most valuable player? Or is it best player in the league that year? There's a difference. And in my opinion, if you ask the question "how good is this team if he wasn't playing'" you will see who really is the most valuable.
For example, you could argue that Peyton manning could have won the MVP his last season with the colts. With Peyton, the Colts were a super bowl contender. Without peyton, they got the first overall pick the next year.
I also think that Lebron jumps into Michael Jordan status if the cavs win this series.
umm no. I think he gets into Magic and Bird territory with a win but still needs work to get to Jordan in my opinion.
Nobody is a bigger fan of Jordan or the Bulls than I was in the 90s. No, LeBron isn't 6 for 6 in the finals. But hes gone to 6 straight and won 3 of them. That's an elite class. I didn't say he was better, just that he can be talked about in the same class as jordan.
Exactly. Who cares who is better. They are both the player of their generation. They are both a joy to watch. Jordan was more of a killer but Lbj is much more rounded of a player. He's also MUCH better off the court. Just enjoy what we have here! I just get annoyed when people disparage Lebron. I hated him in Miami of course. But I never pretended he wasn't the best in the game.
Much better off the court?
will myself to find a home, a home within myself we will find a way, we will find our place
He's one of the best to ever play the game. You guys realize "best player on the floor" and "most valuable player" are two different things right?
Hell of a game 5, no doubt. Doing his part in getting Green suspended certainly helped as he had no problems driving to the basket. But I don't think he played very well in the first two games (9/21 and 7/17 are not good shooting percentages at all).
Let's see what happens next.
Take Lebron off the cavs and they aren't a playoff team. Take Klay or Curran off GS, and they're still the best team in the west. That's what an MVP is.
You think if they remove the reigning two time MVP, the Warriars are still the best team in the league?
Ha
Yes. Very minimum they'd be a 3 seed. Still, the cavs wouldn't even be a playoff team without lebron.
no.
Yes
Can you explain how he unanimously won the mvp two years in a row? Seems to directly contradict your entire argument.
My argument is that Lebron, regardless of the outcome of the series, is the finals MVP. He is leading both teams in every offensive category. I don't disagree that steph is one of the best shooters of all time. I dont disagree with him winning the MVP award. But what is the MVP? Is it the most valuable player? Or is it best player in the league that year? There's a difference. And in my opinion, if you ask the question "how good is this team if he wasn't playing'" you will see who really is the most valuable.
For example, you could argue that Peyton manning could have won the MVP his last season with the colts. With Peyton, the Colts were a super bowl contender. Without peyton, they got the first overall pick the next year.
I also think that Lebron jumps into Michael Jordan status if the cavs win this series.
umm no. I think he gets into Magic and Bird territory with a win but still needs work to get to Jordan in my opinion.
Nobody is a bigger fan of Jordan or the Bulls than I was in the 90s. No, LeBron isn't 6 for 6 in the finals. But hes gone to 6 straight and won 3 of them. That's an elite class. I didn't say he was better, just that he can be talked about in the same class as jordan.
Exactly. Who cares who is better. They are both the player of their generation. They are both a joy to watch. Jordan was more of a killer but Lbj is much more rounded of a player. He's also MUCH better off the court. Just enjoy what we have here! I just get annoyed when people disparage Lebron. I hated him in Miami of course. But I never pretended he wasn't the best in the game.
Much better off the court?
No gambling issues for one. And Jordan wasn't known for his charitable works (not saying he didn't do any, but it wasn't something people discussed). LBJ, by contrast, does so much for the city of Akron which is a very tough, depressed area. His foundation is pivotal in the community and for St Vincent St Mary. He puts in so much of his personal time in for the kids too. It's not just the money.
This is a kid that was on Sports Illustrated cover as a junior. He's been in the spotlight since day one. Yet he is married to his HS sweetheart with three kids. The guy has been an outstanding citizen despite the enormous pressure. He lives up to the standard that the Beebs has set for everyone.
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Surfing The far side of THE Sombrero Galaxy Posts: 18,126
He's one of the best to ever play the game. You guys realize "best player on the floor" and "most valuable player" are two different things right?
Hell of a game 5, no doubt. Doing his part in getting Green suspended certainly helped as he had no problems driving to the basket. But I don't think he played very well in the first two games (9/21 and 7/17 are not good shooting percentages at all).
Let's see what happens next.
Take Lebron off the cavs and they aren't a playoff team. Take Klay or Curran off GS, and they're still the best team in the west. That's what an MVP is.
You think if they remove the reigning two time MVP, the Warriars are still the best team in the league?
Ha
Yes. Very minimum they'd be a 3 seed. Still, the cavs wouldn't even be a playoff team without lebron.
no.
Yes
Can you explain how he unanimously won the mvp two years in a row? Seems to directly contradict your entire argument.
My argument is that Lebron, regardless of the outcome of the series, is the finals MVP. He is leading both teams in every offensive category. I don't disagree that steph is one of the best shooters of all time. I dont disagree with him winning the MVP award. But what is the MVP? Is it the most valuable player? Or is it best player in the league that year? There's a difference. And in my opinion, if you ask the question "how good is this team if he wasn't playing'" you will see who really is the most valuable.
For example, you could argue that Peyton manning could have won the MVP his last season with the colts. With Peyton, the Colts were a super bowl contender. Without peyton, they got the first overall pick the next year.
I also think that Lebron jumps into Michael Jordan status if the cavs win this series.
umm no. I think he gets into Magic and Bird territory with a win but still needs work to get to Jordan in my opinion.
Nobody is a bigger fan of Jordan or the Bulls than I was in the 90s. No, LeBron isn't 6 for 6 in the finals. But hes gone to 6 straight and won 3 of them. That's an elite class. I didn't say he was better, just that he can be talked about in the same class as jordan.
Exactly. Who cares who is better. They are both the player of their generation. They are both a joy to watch. Jordan was more of a killer but Lbj is much more rounded of a player. He's also MUCH better off the court. Just enjoy what we have here! I just get annoyed when people disparage Lebron. I hated him in Miami of course. But I never pretended he wasn't the best in the game.
Much better off the court?
No gambling issues for one. And Jordan wasn't known for his charitable works (not saying he didn't do any, but it wasn't something people discussed). LBJ, by contrast, does so much for the city of Akron which is a very tough, depressed area. His foundation is pivotal in the community and for St Vincent St Mary. He puts in so much of his personal time in for the kids too. It's not just the money.
This is a kid that was on Sports Illustrated cover as a junior. He's been in the spotlight since day one. Yet he is married to his HS sweetheart with three kids. The guy has been an outstanding citizen despite the enormous pressure. He lives up to the standard that the Beebs has set for everyone.
Now that's something I did not know and that is that he was on the cover of SI as a junior. That's some pressure to live up to for sure, that said I STILL will pick the Warriors to the title. Winning three games in a row is just too much to overcome.
Peace
*We CAN bomb the World to pieces, but we CAN'T bomb it into PEACE*...Michael Franti
*MUSIC IS the expression of EMOTION.....and that POLITICS IS merely the DECOY of PERCEPTION*
.....song_Music & Politics....Michael Franti
*The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite INSANE*....Nikola Tesla(a man who shaped our world of electricity with his futuristic inventions)
He's one of the best to ever play the game. You guys realize "best player on the floor" and "most valuable player" are two different things right?
Hell of a game 5, no doubt. Doing his part in getting Green suspended certainly helped as he had no problems driving to the basket. But I don't think he played very well in the first two games (9/21 and 7/17 are not good shooting percentages at all).
Let's see what happens next.
Take Lebron off the cavs and they aren't a playoff team. Take Klay or Curran off GS, and they're still the best team in the west. That's what an MVP is.
You think if they remove the reigning two time MVP, the Warriars are still the best team in the league?
Ha
Yes. Very minimum they'd be a 3 seed. Still, the cavs wouldn't even be a playoff team without lebron.
no.
Yes
Can you explain how he unanimously won the mvp two years in a row? Seems to directly contradict your entire argument.
My argument is that Lebron, regardless of the outcome of the series, is the finals MVP. He is leading both teams in every offensive category. I don't disagree that steph is one of the best shooters of all time. I dont disagree with him winning the MVP award. But what is the MVP? Is it the most valuable player? Or is it best player in the league that year? There's a difference. And in my opinion, if you ask the question "how good is this team if he wasn't playing'" you will see who really is the most valuable.
For example, you could argue that Peyton manning could have won the MVP his last season with the colts. With Peyton, the Colts were a super bowl contender. Without peyton, they got the first overall pick the next year.
I also think that Lebron jumps into Michael Jordan status if the cavs win this series.
umm no. I think he gets into Magic and Bird territory with a win but still needs work to get to Jordan in my opinion.
Nobody is a bigger fan of Jordan or the Bulls than I was in the 90s. No, LeBron isn't 6 for 6 in the finals. But hes gone to 6 straight and won 3 of them. That's an elite class. I didn't say he was better, just that he can be talked about in the same class as jordan.
Exactly. Who cares who is better. They are both the player of their generation. They are both a joy to watch. Jordan was more of a killer but Lbj is much more rounded of a player. He's also MUCH better off the court. Just enjoy what we have here! I just get annoyed when people disparage Lebron. I hated him in Miami of course. But I never pretended he wasn't the best in the game.
Much better off the court?
No gambling issues for one. And Jordan wasn't known for his charitable works (not saying he didn't do any, but it wasn't something people discussed). LBJ, by contrast, does so much for the city of Akron which is a very tough, depressed area. His foundation is pivotal in the community and for St Vincent St Mary. He puts in so much of his personal time in for the kids too. It's not just the money.
This is a kid that was on Sports Illustrated cover as a junior. He's been in the spotlight since day one. Yet he is married to his HS sweetheart with three kids. The guy has been an outstanding citizen despite the enormous pressure. He lives up to the standard that the Beebs has set for everyone.
I thought you may go to the gambling. Really irrelevant when you're comparing the basketball. It's like saying Ty Cobb isn't one of the best hitters ever because he was a racist.
will myself to find a home, a home within myself we will find a way, we will find our place
He's one of the best to ever play the game. You guys realize "best player on the floor" and "most valuable player" are two different things right?
Hell of a game 5, no doubt. Doing his part in getting Green suspended certainly helped as he had no problems driving to the basket. But I don't think he played very well in the first two games (9/21 and 7/17 are not good shooting percentages at all).
Let's see what happens next.
Take Lebron off the cavs and they aren't a playoff team. Take Klay or Curran off GS, and they're still the best team in the west. That's what an MVP is.
You think if they remove the reigning two time MVP, the Warriars are still the best team in the league?
Ha
Yes. Very minimum they'd be a 3 seed. Still, the cavs wouldn't even be a playoff team without lebron.
no.
Yes
Can you explain how he unanimously won the mvp two years in a row? Seems to directly contradict your entire argument.
My argument is that Lebron, regardless of the outcome of the series, is the finals MVP. He is leading both teams in every offensive category. I don't disagree that steph is one of the best shooters of all time. I dont disagree with him winning the MVP award. But what is the MVP? Is it the most valuable player? Or is it best player in the league that year? There's a difference. And in my opinion, if you ask the question "how good is this team if he wasn't playing'" you will see who really is the most valuable.
For example, you could argue that Peyton manning could have won the MVP his last season with the colts. With Peyton, the Colts were a super bowl contender. Without peyton, they got the first overall pick the next year.
I also think that Lebron jumps into Michael Jordan status if the cavs win this series.
umm no. I think he gets into Magic and Bird territory with a win but still needs work to get to Jordan in my opinion.
In my opinion there is nothing he can do to get in Jordan's status. 6 for 6 with 6 Finals MVP's just can't be beat. But he has already surpassed Magic and Bird I think. Magic and Bird both lost multiple Finals, and they had far superior talent around them than Lebron has had for most of his career.
He's one of the best to ever play the game. You guys realize "best player on the floor" and "most valuable player" are two different things right?
Hell of a game 5, no doubt. Doing his part in getting Green suspended certainly helped as he had no problems driving to the basket. But I don't think he played very well in the first two games (9/21 and 7/17 are not good shooting percentages at all).
Let's see what happens next.
Take Lebron off the cavs and they aren't a playoff team. Take Klay or Curran off GS, and they're still the best team in the west. That's what an MVP is.
You think if they remove the reigning two time MVP, the Warriars are still the best team in the league?
Ha
Yes. Very minimum they'd be a 3 seed. Still, the cavs wouldn't even be a playoff team without lebron.
no.
Yes
Can you explain how he unanimously won the mvp two years in a row? Seems to directly contradict your entire argument.
My argument is that Lebron, regardless of the outcome of the series, is the finals MVP. He is leading both teams in every offensive category. I don't disagree that steph is one of the best shooters of all time. I dont disagree with him winning the MVP award. But what is the MVP? Is it the most valuable player? Or is it best player in the league that year? There's a difference. And in my opinion, if you ask the question "how good is this team if he wasn't playing'" you will see who really is the most valuable.
For example, you could argue that Peyton manning could have won the MVP his last season with the colts. With Peyton, the Colts were a super bowl contender. Without peyton, they got the first overall pick the next year.
I also think that Lebron jumps into Michael Jordan status if the cavs win this series.
umm no. I think he gets into Magic and Bird territory with a win but still needs work to get to Jordan in my opinion.
Nobody is a bigger fan of Jordan or the Bulls than I was in the 90s. No, LeBron isn't 6 for 6 in the finals. But hes gone to 6 straight and won 3 of them. That's an elite class. I didn't say he was better, just that he can be talked about in the same class as jordan.
Exactly. Who cares who is better. They are both the player of their generation. They are both a joy to watch. Jordan was more of a killer but Lbj is much more rounded of a player. He's also MUCH better off the court. Just enjoy what we have here! I just get annoyed when people disparage Lebron. I hated him in Miami of course. But I never pretended he wasn't the best in the game.
Much better off the court?
No gambling issues for one. And Jordan wasn't known for his charitable works (not saying he didn't do any, but it wasn't something people discussed). LBJ, by contrast, does so much for the city of Akron which is a very tough, depressed area. His foundation is pivotal in the community and for St Vincent St Mary. He puts in so much of his personal time in for the kids too. It's not just the money.
This is a kid that was on Sports Illustrated cover as a junior. He's been in the spotlight since day one. Yet he is married to his HS sweetheart with three kids. The guy has been an outstanding citizen despite the enormous pressure. He lives up to the standard that the Beebs has set for everyone.
I thought you may go to the gambling. Really irrelevant when you're comparing the basketball. It's like saying Ty Cobb isn't one of the best hitters ever because he was a racist.
He's one of the best to ever play the game. You guys realize "best player on the floor" and "most valuable player" are two different things right?
Hell of a game 5, no doubt. Doing his part in getting Green suspended certainly helped as he had no problems driving to the basket. But I don't think he played very well in the first two games (9/21 and 7/17 are not good shooting percentages at all).
Let's see what happens next.
Take Lebron off the cavs and they aren't a playoff team. Take Klay or Curran off GS, and they're still the best team in the west. That's what an MVP is.
You think if they remove the reigning two time MVP, the Warriars are still the best team in the league?
Ha
Yes. Very minimum they'd be a 3 seed. Still, the cavs wouldn't even be a playoff team without lebron.
no.
Yes
Can you explain how he unanimously won the mvp two years in a row? Seems to directly contradict your entire argument.
My argument is that Lebron, regardless of the outcome of the series, is the finals MVP. He is leading both teams in every offensive category. I don't disagree that steph is one of the best shooters of all time. I dont disagree with him winning the MVP award. But what is the MVP? Is it the most valuable player? Or is it best player in the league that year? There's a difference. And in my opinion, if you ask the question "how good is this team if he wasn't playing'" you will see who really is the most valuable.
For example, you could argue that Peyton manning could have won the MVP his last season with the colts. With Peyton, the Colts were a super bowl contender. Without peyton, they got the first overall pick the next year.
I also think that Lebron jumps into Michael Jordan status if the cavs win this series.
umm no. I think he gets into Magic and Bird territory with a win but still needs work to get to Jordan in my opinion.
In my opinion there is nothing he can do to get in Jordan's status. 6 for 6 with 6 Finals MVP's just can't be beat. But he has already surpassed Magic and Bird I think. Magic and Bird both lost multiple Finals, and they had far superior talent around them than Lebron has had for most of his career.
I don't subscribe to that "6 for 6 can't be beat" notion. Say hypothetically that Lebron wins six championships. I think being 6 for 9 in the finals would be far more impressive than 6 for 6. Like I feel Tom Brady being 4-2 in the Super Bowl beats Terry Bradshaw's 4-0 because he got there more. You don't just magically appear in the championship. You have to earn your way there and it's hard (well maybe not for Lebron in what is the shitty Eastern Conference of the 21st century. THAT would be my nit-pick against all of Lebron's Finals appearances). But to say that a winning percentage of 1.000 in the championship round can't be beat isn't necessarily true in my option.
He's one of the best to ever play the game. You guys realize "best player on the floor" and "most valuable player" are two different things right?
Hell of a game 5, no doubt. Doing his part in getting Green suspended certainly helped as he had no problems driving to the basket. But I don't think he played very well in the first two games (9/21 and 7/17 are not good shooting percentages at all).
Let's see what happens next.
Take Lebron off the cavs and they aren't a playoff team. Take Klay or Curran off GS, and they're still the best team in the west. That's what an MVP is.
You think if they remove the reigning two time MVP, the Warriars are still the best team in the league?
Ha
Yes. Very minimum they'd be a 3 seed. Still, the cavs wouldn't even be a playoff team without lebron.
no.
Yes
Can you explain how he unanimously won the mvp two years in a row? Seems to directly contradict your entire argument.
My argument is that Lebron, regardless of the outcome of the series, is the finals MVP. He is leading both teams in every offensive category. I don't disagree that steph is one of the best shooters of all time. I dont disagree with him winning the MVP award. But what is the MVP? Is it the most valuable player? Or is it best player in the league that year? There's a difference. And in my opinion, if you ask the question "how good is this team if he wasn't playing'" you will see who really is the most valuable.
For example, you could argue that Peyton manning could have won the MVP his last season with the colts. With Peyton, the Colts were a super bowl contender. Without peyton, they got the first overall pick the next year.
I also think that Lebron jumps into Michael Jordan status if the cavs win this series.
umm no. I think he gets into Magic and Bird territory with a win but still needs work to get to Jordan in my opinion.
In my opinion there is nothing he can do to get in Jordan's status. 6 for 6 with 6 Finals MVP's just can't be beat. But he has already surpassed Magic and Bird I think. Magic and Bird both lost multiple Finals, and they had far superior talent around them than Lebron has had for most of his career.
yea but look at the teams Bird and Magic lost to. I mean Magic lost to Bird's Celtics (Bird, McHale, Parish Hall of Famers), Isiah's Pistons, the Sixers (with Malone and Erving) and Jordan's Bulls. Bird lost to the Lakers twice (Magic, Kareem's, Worthy). The teams Bird and Magic had to beat were far superior to today's teams. I mean just look at the number of top 25-30 all time talents Bird and Magic had to get past to win titles. Lebron's competition isn't close to that in my opinion.
He's one of the best to ever play the game. You guys realize "best player on the floor" and "most valuable player" are two different things right?
Hell of a game 5, no doubt. Doing his part in getting Green suspended certainly helped as he had no problems driving to the basket. But I don't think he played very well in the first two games (9/21 and 7/17 are not good shooting percentages at all).
Let's see what happens next.
Take Lebron off the cavs and they aren't a playoff team. Take Klay or Curran off GS, and they're still the best team in the west. That's what an MVP is.
You think if they remove the reigning two time MVP, the Warriars are still the best team in the league?
Ha
Yes. Very minimum they'd be a 3 seed. Still, the cavs wouldn't even be a playoff team without lebron.
no.
Yes
Can you explain how he unanimously won the mvp two years in a row? Seems to directly contradict your entire argument.
My argument is that Lebron, regardless of the outcome of the series, is the finals MVP. He is leading both teams in every offensive category. I don't disagree that steph is one of the best shooters of all time. I dont disagree with him winning the MVP award. But what is the MVP? Is it the most valuable player? Or is it best player in the league that year? There's a difference. And in my opinion, if you ask the question "how good is this team if he wasn't playing'" you will see who really is the most valuable.
For example, you could argue that Peyton manning could have won the MVP his last season with the colts. With Peyton, the Colts were a super bowl contender. Without peyton, they got the first overall pick the next year.
I also think that Lebron jumps into Michael Jordan status if the cavs win this series.
umm no. I think he gets into Magic and Bird territory with a win but still needs work to get to Jordan in my opinion.
In my opinion there is nothing he can do to get in Jordan's status. 6 for 6 with 6 Finals MVP's just can't be beat. But he has already surpassed Magic and Bird I think. Magic and Bird both lost multiple Finals, and they had far superior talent around them than Lebron has had for most of his career.
yea but look at the teams Bird and Magic lost to. I mean Magic lost to Bird's Celtics (Bird, McHale, Parish Hall of Famers), Isiah's Pistons, the Sixers (with Malone and Erving) and Jordan's Bulls. Bird lost to the Lakers twice (Magic, Kareem's, Worthy). The teams Bird and Magic had to beat were far superior to today's teams. I mean just look at the number of top 25-30 all time talents Bird and Magic had to get past to win titles. Lebron's competition isn't close to that in my opinion.
You don't think this Golden State team is comparable to the great Celtics, Lakers and Bulls?
He's one of the best to ever play the game. You guys realize "best player on the floor" and "most valuable player" are two different things right?
Hell of a game 5, no doubt. Doing his part in getting Green suspended certainly helped as he had no problems driving to the basket. But I don't think he played very well in the first two games (9/21 and 7/17 are not good shooting percentages at all).
Let's see what happens next.
Take Lebron off the cavs and they aren't a playoff team. Take Klay or Curran off GS, and they're still the best team in the west. That's what an MVP is.
You think if they remove the reigning two time MVP, the Warriars are still the best team in the league?
Ha
Yes. Very minimum they'd be a 3 seed. Still, the cavs wouldn't even be a playoff team without lebron.
no.
Yes
Can you explain how he unanimously won the mvp two years in a row? Seems to directly contradict your entire argument.
My argument is that Lebron, regardless of the outcome of the series, is the finals MVP. He is leading both teams in every offensive category. I don't disagree that steph is one of the best shooters of all time. I dont disagree with him winning the MVP award. But what is the MVP? Is it the most valuable player? Or is it best player in the league that year? There's a difference. And in my opinion, if you ask the question "how good is this team if he wasn't playing'" you will see who really is the most valuable.
For example, you could argue that Peyton manning could have won the MVP his last season with the colts. With Peyton, the Colts were a super bowl contender. Without peyton, they got the first overall pick the next year.
I also think that Lebron jumps into Michael Jordan status if the cavs win this series.
umm no. I think he gets into Magic and Bird territory with a win but still needs work to get to Jordan in my opinion.
In my opinion there is nothing he can do to get in Jordan's status. 6 for 6 with 6 Finals MVP's just can't be beat. But he has already surpassed Magic and Bird I think. Magic and Bird both lost multiple Finals, and they had far superior talent around them than Lebron has had for most of his career.
yea but look at the teams Bird and Magic lost to. I mean Magic lost to Bird's Celtics (Bird, McHale, Parish Hall of Famers), Isiah's Pistons, the Sixers (with Malone and Erving) and Jordan's Bulls. Bird lost to the Lakers twice (Magic, Kareem's, Worthy). The teams Bird and Magic had to beat were far superior to today's teams. I mean just look at the number of top 25-30 all time talents Bird and Magic had to get past to win titles. Lebron's competition isn't close to that in my opinion.
You don't think this Golden State team is comparable to the great Celtics, Lakers and Bulls?
No. The game in the 80s and 90s was much different. I believe Jordan's Bulls would route GS.
will myself to find a home, a home within myself we will find a way, we will find our place
He's one of the best to ever play the game. You guys realize "best player on the floor" and "most valuable player" are two different things right?
Hell of a game 5, no doubt. Doing his part in getting Green suspended certainly helped as he had no problems driving to the basket. But I don't think he played very well in the first two games (9/21 and 7/17 are not good shooting percentages at all).
Let's see what happens next.
Take Lebron off the cavs and they aren't a playoff team. Take Klay or Curran off GS, and they're still the best team in the west. That's what an MVP is.
You think if they remove the reigning two time MVP, the Warriars are still the best team in the league?
Ha
Yes. Very minimum they'd be a 3 seed. Still, the cavs wouldn't even be a playoff team without lebron.
no.
Yes
Can you explain how he unanimously won the mvp two years in a row? Seems to directly contradict your entire argument.
My argument is that Lebron, regardless of the outcome of the series, is the finals MVP. He is leading both teams in every offensive category. I don't disagree that steph is one of the best shooters of all time. I dont disagree with him winning the MVP award. But what is the MVP? Is it the most valuable player? Or is it best player in the league that year? There's a difference. And in my opinion, if you ask the question "how good is this team if he wasn't playing'" you will see who really is the most valuable.
For example, you could argue that Peyton manning could have won the MVP his last season with the colts. With Peyton, the Colts were a super bowl contender. Without peyton, they got the first overall pick the next year.
I also think that Lebron jumps into Michael Jordan status if the cavs win this series.
umm no. I think he gets into Magic and Bird territory with a win but still needs work to get to Jordan in my opinion.
In my opinion there is nothing he can do to get in Jordan's status. 6 for 6 with 6 Finals MVP's just can't be beat. But he has already surpassed Magic and Bird I think. Magic and Bird both lost multiple Finals, and they had far superior talent around them than Lebron has had for most of his career.
yea but look at the teams Bird and Magic lost to. I mean Magic lost to Bird's Celtics (Bird, McHale, Parish Hall of Famers), Isiah's Pistons, the Sixers (with Malone and Erving) and Jordan's Bulls. Bird lost to the Lakers twice (Magic, Kareem's, Worthy). The teams Bird and Magic had to beat were far superior to today's teams. I mean just look at the number of top 25-30 all time talents Bird and Magic had to get past to win titles. Lebron's competition isn't close to that in my opinion.
You don't think this Golden State team is comparable to the great Celtics, Lakers and Bulls?
No. The game in the 80s and 90s was much different. I believe Jordan's Bulls would route GS.
Depends on the rule set in my opinion. Those teams were built on the way the game was officiated. It was tough, physical and an inside-out game. Now it's the opposite.
He's one of the best to ever play the game. You guys realize "best player on the floor" and "most valuable player" are two different things right?
Hell of a game 5, no doubt. Doing his part in getting Green suspended certainly helped as he had no problems driving to the basket. But I don't think he played very well in the first two games (9/21 and 7/17 are not good shooting percentages at all).
Let's see what happens next.
Take Lebron off the cavs and they aren't a playoff team. Take Klay or Curran off GS, and they're still the best team in the west. That's what an MVP is.
You think if they remove the reigning two time MVP, the Warriars are still the best team in the league?
Ha
Yes. Very minimum they'd be a 3 seed. Still, the cavs wouldn't even be a playoff team without lebron.
no.
Yes
Can you explain how he unanimously won the mvp two years in a row? Seems to directly contradict your entire argument.
My argument is that Lebron, regardless of the outcome of the series, is the finals MVP. He is leading both teams in every offensive category. I don't disagree that steph is one of the best shooters of all time. I dont disagree with him winning the MVP award. But what is the MVP? Is it the most valuable player? Or is it best player in the league that year? There's a difference. And in my opinion, if you ask the question "how good is this team if he wasn't playing'" you will see who really is the most valuable.
For example, you could argue that Peyton manning could have won the MVP his last season with the colts. With Peyton, the Colts were a super bowl contender. Without peyton, they got the first overall pick the next year.
I also think that Lebron jumps into Michael Jordan status if the cavs win this series.
umm no. I think he gets into Magic and Bird territory with a win but still needs work to get to Jordan in my opinion.
In my opinion there is nothing he can do to get in Jordan's status. 6 for 6 with 6 Finals MVP's just can't be beat. But he has already surpassed Magic and Bird I think. Magic and Bird both lost multiple Finals, and they had far superior talent around them than Lebron has had for most of his career.
yea but look at the teams Bird and Magic lost to. I mean Magic lost to Bird's Celtics (Bird, McHale, Parish Hall of Famers), Isiah's Pistons, the Sixers (with Malone and Erving) and Jordan's Bulls. Bird lost to the Lakers twice (Magic, Kareem's, Worthy). The teams Bird and Magic had to beat were far superior to today's teams. I mean just look at the number of top 25-30 all time talents Bird and Magic had to get past to win titles. Lebron's competition isn't close to that in my opinion.
You don't think this Golden State team is comparable to the great Celtics, Lakers and Bulls?
not quite, Celtics had 3 sure Fire Hall of Famers pretty much in their prime, Lakers had 3 sure fire Hall of Famers and 2 of the top 10 players of all time, and the Bulls had 2 of the top 20-25 players of all time both in their prime together.
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The Juggler
Behind that bush over there. Posts: 47,370
He's one of the best to ever play the game. You guys realize "best player on the floor" and "most valuable player" are two different things right?
Hell of a game 5, no doubt. Doing his part in getting Green suspended certainly helped as he had no problems driving to the basket. But I don't think he played very well in the first two games (9/21 and 7/17 are not good shooting percentages at all).
Let's see what happens next.
Take Lebron off the cavs and they aren't a playoff team. Take Klay or Curran off GS, and they're still the best team in the west. That's what an MVP is.
You think if they remove the reigning two time MVP, the Warriars are still the best team in the league?
Ha
Yea. I think Klay is more valuable
Ha.....wait, seriously?......what are you basing this on?
What is your argument (other than you don't like Steph)?
I don't don't like Steph. I just think Klay doesn't get as much credit
Okay that makes sense. But saying he doesn't get as much credit is a lot different than saying he is more valuable than Curry.
He's one of the best to ever play the game. You guys realize "best player on the floor" and "most valuable player" are two different things right?
Hell of a game 5, no doubt. Doing his part in getting Green suspended certainly helped as he had no problems driving to the basket. But I don't think he played very well in the first two games (9/21 and 7/17 are not good shooting percentages at all).
Let's see what happens next.
Take Lebron off the cavs and they aren't a playoff team. Take Klay or Curran off GS, and they're still the best team in the west. That's what an MVP is.
You think if they remove the reigning two time MVP, the Warriars are still the best team in the league?
Ha
Yea. I think Klay is more valuable
Ha.....wait, seriously?......what are you basing this on?
What is your argument (other than you don't like Steph)?
I don't don't like Steph. I just think Klay doesn't get as much credit
Okay that makes sense. But saying he doesn't get as much credit is a lot different than saying he is more valuable than Curry.
I think Klay is more valuable than Curry. Klay's ability to defend PGs in today's NBA is invaluable. Curry can't do it. I'd rather give up 7 points on offense and take 10 away from their guard.
He's one of the best to ever play the game. You guys realize "best player on the floor" and "most valuable player" are two different things right?
Hell of a game 5, no doubt. Doing his part in getting Green suspended certainly helped as he had no problems driving to the basket. But I don't think he played very well in the first two games (9/21 and 7/17 are not good shooting percentages at all).
Let's see what happens next.
Take Lebron off the cavs and they aren't a playoff team. Take Klay or Curran off GS, and they're still the best team in the west. That's what an MVP is.
You think if they remove the reigning two time MVP, the Warriars are still the best team in the league?
Ha
Yea. I think Klay is more valuable
Ha.....wait, seriously?......what are you basing this on?
What is your argument (other than you don't like Steph)?
I don't don't like Steph. I just think Klay doesn't get as much credit
Okay that makes sense. But saying he doesn't get as much credit is a lot different than saying he is more valuable than Curry.
I think Klay is more valuable than Curry. Klay's ability to defend PGs in today's NBA is invaluable. Curry can't do it. I'd rather give up 7 points on offense and take 10 away from their guard. -------- Yeah I hear on the defensive stuff but Steph's per is 31.86 while Klay is at 18.67.
That is 1st in the NBA and 55th respectively. In this case, the much greater offensive contributions outweigh the defense from Klay by a significant margin.
He's one of the best to ever play the game. You guys realize "best player on the floor" and "most valuable player" are two different things right?
Hell of a game 5, no doubt. Doing his part in getting Green suspended certainly helped as he had no problems driving to the basket. But I don't think he played very well in the first two games (9/21 and 7/17 are not good shooting percentages at all).
Let's see what happens next.
Take Lebron off the cavs and they aren't a playoff team. Take Klay or Curran off GS, and they're still the best team in the west. That's what an MVP is.
You think if they remove the reigning two time MVP, the Warriars are still the best team in the league?
Ha
Yea. I think Klay is more valuable
Ha.....wait, seriously?......what are you basing this on?
What is your argument (other than you don't like Steph)?
I don't don't like Steph. I just think Klay doesn't get as much credit
Okay that makes sense. But saying he doesn't get as much credit is a lot different than saying he is more valuable than Curry.
I think Klay is more valuable than Curry. Klay's ability to defend PGs in today's NBA is invaluable. Curry can't do it. I'd rather give up 7 points on offense and take 10 away from their guard. -------- Yeah I hear on the defensive stuff but Steph's per is 31.86 while Klay is at 18.67.
That is 1st in the NBA and 55th respectively. In this case, the much greater offensive contributions outweigh the defense from Klay by a significant margin.
edit--and the quoting here is just dreadful.
You're right on the reg season numbers. But there's something weird going on with the Warriors. Did they play harder than everyone else in the regular season? Did teams not play tough defense therefore Steph was able to do his cutting without much grabbing or people really working hard through screens? One thing is for sure, imo, Klay is better suited for the physical nature of the playoffs. He doesn't seem to be taking teh beating like Steph is.
My favorite photo from the other night (other than Lebron asking Curry 'who's a bitch?'
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g under p
Surfing The far side of THE Sombrero Galaxy Posts: 18,126
Even though I'm picking the GSW to win tonight still doesn't the Cavs surge reminds fans of the determination of the 2014 Spurs. There just was no denying them upon a return championship series against the Heat. We shall see tonight.
Peace
*We CAN bomb the World to pieces, but we CAN'T bomb it into PEACE*...Michael Franti
*MUSIC IS the expression of EMOTION.....and that POLITICS IS merely the DECOY of PERCEPTION*
.....song_Music & Politics....Michael Franti
*The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite INSANE*....Nikola Tesla(a man who shaped our world of electricity with his futuristic inventions)
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we will find a way, we will find our place
we will find a way, we will find our place
This is a kid that was on Sports Illustrated cover as a junior. He's been in the spotlight since day one. Yet he is married to his HS sweetheart with three kids. The guy has been an outstanding citizen despite the enormous pressure. He lives up to the standard that the Beebs has set for everyone.
Peace
*MUSIC IS the expression of EMOTION.....and that POLITICS IS merely the DECOY of PERCEPTION*
.....song_Music & Politics....Michael Franti
*The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite INSANE*....Nikola Tesla(a man who shaped our world of electricity with his futuristic inventions)
we will find a way, we will find our place
2003: 4/29 Albany, 5/2 Buffalo, 7/9 MSG 2 2006: 5/12 Albany, 6/3 East Rutherford 2
2008: 6/27 Hartford 2009: 10/27 Philadelphia 1 2010: 5/15 Hartford, 5/21 MSG 2
2013: 10/15 Worcester 1, 10/25 Hartford 2014: 10/1 Cincinnati
2018: 9/2 Fenway 1
Pearl Jam bootlegs:
http://wegotshit.blogspot.com
we will find a way, we will find our place
we will find a way, we will find our place
BTW, the LBJ point or assist streak was 35/36 last night.
Okay that makes sense. But saying he doesn't get as much credit is a lot different than saying he is more valuable than Curry.
8/28/98- Camden, NJ
10/31/09- Philly
5/21/10- NYC
9/2/12- Philly, PA
7/19/13- Wrigley
10/19/13- Brooklyn, NY
10/21/13- Philly, PA
10/22/13- Philly, PA
10/27/13- Baltimore, MD
Tres Mts.- 3/23/11- Philly
Eddie Vedder- 6/25/11- Philly
Okay that makes sense. But saying he doesn't get as much credit is a lot different than saying he is more valuable than Curry.
I think Klay is more valuable than Curry. Klay's ability to defend PGs in today's NBA is invaluable. Curry can't do it. I'd rather give up 7 points on offense and take 10 away from their guard.
Okay that makes sense. But saying he doesn't get as much credit is a lot different than saying he is more valuable than Curry.
I think Klay is more valuable than Curry. Klay's ability to defend PGs in today's NBA is invaluable. Curry can't do it. I'd rather give up 7 points on offense and take 10 away from their guard.
--------
Yeah I hear on the defensive stuff but Steph's per is 31.86 while Klay is at 18.67.
That is 1st in the NBA and 55th respectively. In this case, the much greater offensive contributions outweigh the defense from Klay by a significant margin.
edit--and the quoting here is just dreadful.
I think Klay is more valuable than Curry. Klay's ability to defend PGs in today's NBA is invaluable. Curry can't do it. I'd rather give up 7 points on offense and take 10 away from their guard.
--------
Yeah I hear on the defensive stuff but Steph's per is 31.86 while Klay is at 18.67.
That is 1st in the NBA and 55th respectively. In this case, the much greater offensive contributions outweigh the defense from Klay by a significant margin.
edit--and the quoting here is just dreadful.
You're right on the reg season numbers. But there's something weird going on with the Warriors. Did they play harder than everyone else in the regular season? Did teams not play tough defense therefore Steph was able to do his cutting without much grabbing or people really working hard through screens? One thing is for sure, imo, Klay is better suited for the physical nature of the playoffs. He doesn't seem to be taking teh beating like Steph is.
My favorite photo from the other night (other than Lebron asking Curry 'who's a bitch?'
Peace
*MUSIC IS the expression of EMOTION.....and that POLITICS IS merely the DECOY of PERCEPTION*
.....song_Music & Politics....Michael Franti
*The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite INSANE*....Nikola Tesla(a man who shaped our world of electricity with his futuristic inventions)
Prague Krakow Berlin 2018. Berlin 2022
EV, Taormina 1+2 2017.
I wish i was the souvenir you kept your house key on..