Navy Yard Shooting

PJ_Soul

PJPOWER wrote:

From what I've read there was probably an armed guard at a checkpoint somewhere on the perimeter. This guy had worked there and knew exactly where to go. On the inside, people effectively had their ability to protect themselves removed. I fully agree though, we should not rely on armed guards to protect us. And if there is an armed guard, they should probably be somewhere with a barrier or better vantage point than anyone else. I'm one of those nuts that believe people should be able to protect themselves instead of having to wait for law enforcement to arrive. That's a whole new argument though...

Aren't armed guards usually at the outside doors monitoring who comes in? And the guy disarmed said guards when they did show up.... I guess your argument is that staff there should be able to carry concealed weapons at work on a military base? I personally do not know enough about the reasoning behind wanting military bases to be largely gun free, but I have to assume those in military weighed the options and were consulted when the rules were made, with all things considered... It's not like the military is anti-gun.

PJPOWER

PJ_Soul wrote:

PJPOWER wrote:

From what I've read there was probably an armed guard at a checkpoint somewhere on the perimeter. This guy had worked there and knew exactly where to go. On the inside, people effectively had their ability to protect themselves removed. I fully agree though, we should not rely on armed guards to protect us. And if there is an armed guard, they should probably be somewhere with a barrier or better vantage point than anyone else. I'm one of those nuts that believe people should be able to protect themselves instead of having to wait for law enforcement to arrive. That's a whole new argument though...

Aren't armed guards usually at the outside doors monitoring who comes in? And the guy disarmed said guards when they did show up.... I guess your argument is that staff there should be able to carry concealed weapons at work on a military base? I personally do not know enough about the reasoning behind wanting military bases to be largely gun free, but I have to assume those in military weighed the options and were consulted when the rules were made, with all things considered... It's not like the military is anti-gun.

We don't know the specifics, but I'm guessing there was an element of surprise and I have not heard that he disarmed multiple guards as you are suggesting. If I'm wrong, I'm wrong. I also doubt Bill Clinton did much collaborating with the wants and needs of the military as he was just another pololitician with an anti-gun agenda. All that asside, I still do not see how this effectively kills the notion of armed individuals at schools or elsewhere, but it does put pressure on the need for those individuals to be properly equipped and trained and I'm sure this incident will change the way future armed guards are trained at the navy yard.

Jason P

Now they say he just had a shotgun

Classic Biden ...

PJ_Soul

Jason P wrote:

Now they say he just had a shotgun

Classic Biden ...

I don't get how they can go from 3 guns including that rifle to just a shotgun. :fp: The media has to get a grip and stop just blurting out shit as they hear it from whothefuckever. I don't care if people want info fast. They have no integrity anymore just to spew out info the fastest. Pathetic.

Bentleyspop

unsung wrote:

George W Bush is to blame, it's his fault.

Who?

gimmesometruth27

Bentleyspop wrote:

unsung wrote:

George W Bush is to blame, it's his fault.

Who?

yeah because columbine didn't happen under clinton's watch or anything...

PJ_Soul

So I'm sure that we can ALL agree that the facts coming out about this guy's documented past with guns combined with the fact that he was not only sold guns, but also given clearance by the US military, is extremely disturbing? I will be interested to see what the gun freaks who don't believe in regulation have to say about that...

brianlux

A friend of mine and his nephew- both native Germans- recently visited us at our home here in the Sierra foothills. We were outside talking and heard gunfire not far away. I told them that because we lived outside city limits people were allowed to shoot on their property (which is fucking stupid and I hate it.) They couldn't believe it. They said that in Germany, very few people have guns. The sort of thing they experienced here would never happen in their country, not even in their forests- except for a few places where hunting is allowed.

The horrible truth is that America is a violent people, a violent nation.

PJ_Soul

brianlux wrote:

A friend of mine and his nephew- both native Germans- recently visited us at our home here in the Sierra foothills. We were outside talking and heard gunfire not far away. I told them that because we lived outside city limits people were allowed to shoot on their property (which is fucking stupid and I hate it.) They couldn't believe it. They said that in Germany, very few people have guns. The sort of thing they experienced here would never happen in their country, not even in their forests- except for a few places where hunting is allowed.

The horrible truth is that America is a violent people, a violent nation.

If people heard gun shots where I live, there would be 1000 calls to 911 all at one time.

brianlux

PJ_Soul wrote:

brianlux wrote:

A friend of mine and his nephew- both native Germans- recently visited us at our home here in the Sierra foothills. We were outside talking and heard gunfire not far away. I told them that because we lived outside city limits people were allowed to shoot on their property (which is fucking stupid and I hate it.) They couldn't believe it. They said that in Germany, very few people have guns. The sort of thing they experienced here would never happen in their country, not even in their forests- except for a few places where hunting is allowed.

The horrible truth is that America is a violent people, a violent nation.

If people heard gun shots where I live, there would be 1000 calls to 911 all at one time.

I wish I could say the same was true here. A neighbor here recently shot herself in the carotid artery (she was a nurse and made sure she bled out) and the chances that anyone around here called 911 or even the sheriffs department is almost nil because too many [deleted run-on expletives] people around here shoot their guns. (Yes, I'm looking for a new home. ANyone in need of a good little bookstore in their town? )

aerial

Hugh Freaking Dillon wrote:

aerial wrote:

Those that feel less guns mean less crime, would you put a sign in front of your home stating.... this is a
"Gun Free Home"?

this is easily one of the dumbest things I've read on here in quite some time.

Why is it no one can answer it?

Jason P

aerial wrote:

Hugh Freaking Dillon wrote:

aerial wrote:

Those that feel less guns mean less crime, would you put a sign in front of your home stating.... this is a
"Gun Free Home"?

this is easily one of the dumbest things I've read on here in quite some time.

Why is it no one can answer it?

I don't think that would have helped in yesterdays tragedy.

unsung

brianlux wrote:

PJ_Soul wrote:

brianlux wrote:

A friend of mine and his nephew- both native Germans- recently visited us at our home here in the Sierra foothills. We were outside talking and heard gunfire not far away. I told them that because we lived outside city limits people were allowed to shoot on their property (which is fucking stupid and I hate it.) They couldn't believe it. They said that in Germany, very few people have guns. The sort of thing they experienced here would never happen in their country, not even in their forests- except for a few places where hunting is allowed.

The horrible truth is that America is a violent people, a violent nation.

If people heard gun shots where I live, there would be 1000 calls to 911 all at one time.

I wish I could say the same was true here. A neighbor here recently shot herself in the carotid artery (she was a nurse and made sure she bled out) and the chances that anyone around here called 911 or even the sheriffs department is almost nil because too many [deleted run-on expletives] people around here shoot their guns. (Yes, I'm looking for a new home. ANyone in need of a good little bookstore in their town? )

You could go to the south side of Chicago. Gun control laws are the strictest in that city.

PJ_Soul

unsung wrote:

brianlux wrote:

PJ_Soul wrote:

If people heard gun shots where I live, there would be 1000 calls to 911 all at one time.

I wish I could say the same was true here. A neighbor here recently shot herself in the carotid artery (she was a nurse and made sure she bled out) and the chances that anyone around here called 911 or even the sheriffs department is almost nil because too many [deleted run-on expletives] people around here shoot their guns. (Yes, I'm looking for a new home. ANyone in need of a good little bookstore in their town? )

You could go to the south side of Chicago. Gun control laws are the strictest in that city.

Yeah Brian. Move to a gangland war zone.
Helpful and enlightening as always Unsung! :wave:

brianlux

brianlux wrote:

PJ_Soul wrote:

brianlux wrote:

A friend of mine and his nephew- both native Germans- recently visited us at our home here in the Sierra foothills. We were outside talking and heard gunfire not far away. I told them that because we lived outside city limits people were allowed to shoot on their property (which is fucking stupid and I hate it.) They couldn't believe it. They said that in Germany, very few people have guns. The sort of thing they experienced here would never happen in their country, not even in their forests- except for a few places where hunting is allowed.

The horrible truth is that America is a violent people, a violent nation.

If people heard gun shots where I live, there would be 1000 calls to 911 all at one time.

I wish I could say the same was true here. A neighbor here recently shot herself in the carotid artery (she was a nurse and made sure she bled out) and the chances that anyone around here called 911 or even the sheriffs department is almost nil because too many [deleted run-on expletives] people around here shoot their guns. (Yes, I'm looking for a new home. ANyone in need of a good little bookstore in their town? )

unsung wrote:

You could go to the south side of Chicago. Gun control laws are the strictest in that city.

Ahh yeah, thanks anyway. My blues guitar licks are just not that good.

unsung

One another note this guy had already passed a very strict government background check, would a different have prevented his crime? Maybe we should make a law against murder instead.

Jason P

unsung wrote:

You could go to the south side of Chicago. Gun control laws are the strictest in that city.

Without an effective perimeter for containment, gun laws specific to a region won't work unless said region encloses itself.

Take Windsor Canada for example. The crime rate in Windsor is one of the lowest in Canada and they went 27 months without a homicide a few years back. Detroit, a mere river away ... well I don't think I need to pull up any stats on that city.

PJ_Soul

unsung wrote:

One another note this guy had already passed a very strict government background check, would a different have prevented his crime? Maybe we should make a law against murder instead.

I am disturbed that a "very strict" government background check didn't seem to uncover the past gun crimes that the news networks discovered within 5 minutes of checking the internet. Either that, or they uncovered them, and the people making the decisions on who can buy a gun just didn't give a shit that the guy has used his gun emotionally, aggressively, and very dangerously in the past (i.e. shooting out people's tires and shooting at neighbor's houses).

hedonist

brianlux wrote:

A friend of mine and his nephew- both native Germans- recently visited us at our home here in the Sierra foothills. We were outside talking and heard gunfire not far away. I told them that because we lived outside city limits people were allowed to shoot on their property (which is fucking stupid and I hate it.) They couldn't believe it. They said that in Germany, very few people have guns. The sort of thing they experienced here would never happen in their country, not even in their forests- except for a few places where hunting is allowed.

The horrible truth is that America is a violent people, a violent nation.

I don't know...I think people in general have the propensity to be incredibly aggressive and physical.

Again, I don't know. If Americans are a melange of a continuing influx of cultures, aren't those cultures themselves also violent? Not necessarily in the same way, but there are many means to carry out those urges.

My stepfather used to have a client from Denmark. Sweet man, gentle, spent many long stays at our home. Without fail, he'd make it to some gun or knife event, and then show us what he bought. Shit was scary but beautiful in its craftsmanship and artistry; we're talking samurai-type swords, gutting knives and the like. I think his family did some hunting near home though not sure how the sword would fit in there.

Anyway, the more I learn about this shooter, the more I believe there's some true fuckedupness and oversights that happened prior.

PJ_Soul

hedonist wrote:

brianlux wrote:

A friend of mine and his nephew- both native Germans- recently visited us at our home here in the Sierra foothills. We were outside talking and heard gunfire not far away. I told them that because we lived outside city limits people were allowed to shoot on their property (which is fucking stupid and I hate it.) They couldn't believe it. They said that in Germany, very few people have guns. The sort of thing they experienced here would never happen in their country, not even in their forests- except for a few places where hunting is allowed.

The horrible truth is that America is a violent people, a violent nation.

I don't know...I think people in general have the propensity to be incredibly aggressive and physical.

Again, I don't know. If Americans are a melange of a continuing influx of cultures, aren't those cultures themselves also violent? Not necessarily in the same way, but there are many means to carry out those urges.

My stepfather used to have a client from Denmark. Sweet man, gentle, spent many long stays at our home. Without fail, he'd make it to some gun or knife event, and then show us what he bought. Shit was scary but beautiful in its craftsmanship and artistry; we're talking samurai-type swords, gutting knives and the like. I think his family did some hunting near home though not sure how the sword would fit in there.

Anyway, the more I learn about this shooter, the more I believe there's some true fuckedupness and oversights that happened prior.

Yeah, I think people are violent everywhere.... I just think that the US is also gun happy. Bad combo. The gun culture has to be dealt with or else this shit will keep happening this frequently.