Obamacare

Tim Simmons

thanks?

pjl44

Tim Simmons said:

pjl44 said:

Tim Simmons said:

pjl44 said:

Gern Blansten said:

pjl44 said:

Tim Simmons said:

pjl44 said:

Tim Simmons said:

pjl44 said:

Gern Blansten said:

pjl44 said:

Putting aside Elizabeth Warren's baseline stupidity and overinflated sense of self, it seems insane for a divisive government official to put this out in the ether. For self preservation if nothing else.

She's right. People will fight back as evidenced right here in front of you.

If the Presidential election were held next week I probably would have voted for Trump. 

This is fucking hilarious BTW.  But I get it, you’d hate to be associated with monsters who have vile positions on topics. 

No what I'm saying is I'm being forced to associate with monsters at either turn. I would love for the standard Democrat line on this be in lockstep with Fetterman and Shapiro.

It is. 

It's not Elizabeth Warren's. Do you think that she and you are saying the same thing those guys are?

Your own post shows that she condemned the killing...what else do you want? 

No equivocating like Fetterman and Shapiro

pjl44 said:

There doesn't need to be a "but" when you're "condemning" murder

So what you are saying is, the systems fine as is. No notes? 

Absolutely not. I have a lot of thoughts about improving the healthcare system which does not work as well as it could. But no one should be murdering anyone.

Literally no one in position of authority is saying that should happen. You seem to be taking issue with the fact some politicians have decided to address the root cause of the anger that led to murder after saying Murder is bad.

When they are equivocating, yes I am

mace1229

josevolution said:

You know what’s bizarre about this killing which by the way I don’t condone! Pundits on fox are outraged about the sympathizers of Luigi but cheered loudly when Kyle Rittenhouse killed the protesters! 

You can't compare the two. One was a cold blood assassination, the other he fled for his life before fighting back.

Gern Blansten

pjl44 said:

One of my biggest hobby horses with healthcare that is probably way too involved to discuss on a message board: disentangle health insurance from employers. There are too many bad downstream effects that come from your health insurance being tied to your job.

I agree with that. I'm all for single payer or universal. 

Gern Blansten

mace1229 said:

josevolution said:

You know what’s bizarre about this killing which by the way I don’t condone! Pundits on fox are outraged about the sympathizers of Luigi but cheered loudly when Kyle Rittenhouse killed the protesters! 

You can't compare the two. One was a cold blood assassination, the other he fled for his life before fighting back.

But he inserted himself in the middle of a protest that he had no business being in.

mace1229

Gern Blansten said:

mace1229 said:

josevolution said:

You know what’s bizarre about this killing which by the way I don’t condone! Pundits on fox are outraged about the sympathizers of Luigi but cheered loudly when Kyle Rittenhouse killed the protesters! 

You can't compare the two. One was a cold blood assassination, the other he fled for his life before fighting back.

But he inserted himself in the middle of a protest that he had no business being in.

I would agree a 17 year old should not be allowed to be armed in public. 
But he has as much business being there as anyone else.

pjl44

Gern Blansten said:

mace1229 said:

josevolution said:

You know what’s bizarre about this killing which by the way I don’t condone! Pundits on fox are outraged about the sympathizers of Luigi but cheered loudly when Kyle Rittenhouse killed the protesters! 

You can't compare the two. One was a cold blood assassination, the other he fled for his life before fighting back.

But he inserted himself in the middle of a protest that he had no business being in.

Horrible decision. Not a crime 

Gern Blansten

mace1229 said:

Gern Blansten said:

mace1229 said:

josevolution said:

You know what’s bizarre about this killing which by the way I don’t condone! Pundits on fox are outraged about the sympathizers of Luigi but cheered loudly when Kyle Rittenhouse killed the protesters! 

You can't compare the two. One was a cold blood assassination, the other he fled for his life before fighting back.

But he inserted himself in the middle of a protest that he had no business being in.

I would agree a 17 year old should not be allowed to be armed in public. 
But he has as much business being there as anyone else.

Not carrying an assault rifle. My opinion.

mace1229

Gern Blansten said:

mace1229 said:

Gern Blansten said:

mace1229 said:

josevolution said:

You know what’s bizarre about this killing which by the way I don’t condone! Pundits on fox are outraged about the sympathizers of Luigi but cheered loudly when Kyle Rittenhouse killed the protesters! 

You can't compare the two. One was a cold blood assassination, the other he fled for his life before fighting back.

But he inserted himself in the middle of a protest that he had no business being in.

I would agree a 17 year old should not be allowed to be armed in public. 
But he has as much business being there as anyone else.

Not carrying an assault rifle. My opinion.

I agree with part of your original statement, it was weird some outlets praised him as a hero. Just don't think it compares to this assassination. 

Gern Blansten

mace1229 said:

Gern Blansten said:

mace1229 said:

Gern Blansten said:

mace1229 said:

josevolution said:

You know what’s bizarre about this killing which by the way I don’t condone! Pundits on fox are outraged about the sympathizers of Luigi but cheered loudly when Kyle Rittenhouse killed the protesters! 

You can't compare the two. One was a cold blood assassination, the other he fled for his life before fighting back.

But he inserted himself in the middle of a protest that he had no business being in.

I would agree a 17 year old should not be allowed to be armed in public. 
But he has as much business being there as anyone else.

Not carrying an assault rifle. My opinion.

I agree with part of your original statement, it was weird some outlets praised him as a hero. Just don't think it compares to this assassination. 

The lack of empathy for Rittenhouse's victims is definitely the same. The circumstances are different but his victims didn't have assault rifles.

Tim Simmons

pjl44 said:

Tim Simmons said:

pjl44 said:

Tim Simmons said:

pjl44 said:

Gern Blansten said:

pjl44 said:

Tim Simmons said:

pjl44 said:

Tim Simmons said:

pjl44 said:

Gern Blansten said:

pjl44 said:

Putting aside Elizabeth Warren's baseline stupidity and overinflated sense of self, it seems insane for a divisive government official to put this out in the ether. For self preservation if nothing else.

She's right. People will fight back as evidenced right here in front of you.

If the Presidential election were held next week I probably would have voted for Trump. 

This is fucking hilarious BTW.  But I get it, you’d hate to be associated with monsters who have vile positions on topics. 

No what I'm saying is I'm being forced to associate with monsters at either turn. I would love for the standard Democrat line on this be in lockstep with Fetterman and Shapiro.

It is. 

It's not Elizabeth Warren's. Do you think that she and you are saying the same thing those guys are?

Your own post shows that she condemned the killing...what else do you want? 

No equivocating like Fetterman and Shapiro

pjl44 said:

There doesn't need to be a "but" when you're "condemning" murder

So what you are saying is, the systems fine as is. No notes? 

Absolutely not. I have a lot of thoughts about improving the healthcare system which does not work as well as it could. But no one should be murdering anyone.

Literally no one in position of authority is saying that should happen. You seem to be taking issue with the fact some politicians have decided to address the root cause of the anger that led to murder after saying Murder is bad.

When they are equivocating, yes I am

Big thoughts and prayers energy.

Lerxst1992

..

Lerxst1992

pjl44 said:

Gern Blansten said:

pjl44 said:

Putting aside Elizabeth Warren's baseline stupidity and overinflated sense of self, it seems insane for a divisive government official to put this out in the ether. For self preservation if nothing else.

She's right. People will fight back as evidenced right here in front of you.

If the Presidential election were held next week I probably would have voted for Trump. The reaction of the left to this (including prominent elected officials as noted here) is batshit insane and most generously puts them at a wash with Republican looniness. (Unless they had a sane candidate speaking out clearly against this a la Fetterman or Shapiro.)

I'll preface by saying this murder is 100% wrong. But there is something alot more serious than an executive getting wealthy by killing his customers.  It's weird that the left is getting ripped for this online  behavior, when it was republicans winning with the poorer voters. The problem for America is, one day the poor will realize the manipulation from the right is greater than from the left...

"I heard a Ted talk years ago that posited that if the wealth gap was not fixed, people would come for the uber rich with torches and pitchforks. Only the uber rich had a solution—start a culture war. Trans people, immigration, Jewish space lasers, black people on welfare. There is a famous editorial cartoon. A man that looks like Rupert Murdoch has 1000 cookies in front of him. Another man has one cookie, a third, an immigrant has none. Rupert Murdoch says to the first man “Watch out, that man is going to take your cookie.”

Lerxst1992

pjl44 said:

Any changes to the healthcare system should be made because they improve the healthcare system. Congress can get to work on that. It's not easy, it's complex. Warren's intimation that it becomes more urgent under threat of a bullet is vile.

It can be fixed quicker than any reply to this comment.

1. Let patient's doctors make complex healthcare decisions.

2. Tie out of pocket costs directly to the patients ability to pay.

Lerxst1992

pjl44 said:

Tim Simmons said:

And when a dogs been beat down, don’t be surprised when it bites you one day. I’m not saying it’s correct or just or right, I’m saying don’t be surprised. 

Does that also apply to January 6 rioters?

This is a werid analogy and explains exactly how millions get duped by the maga lies

J6 rioters made a decision to break the law, act violently and harm people and property.

A patient in pain and/or at risk of death and not being able to be treated by their doctor is completely different.

Your j6 obfuscation is eerily similar to the Ruppert cookie story

pjl44

This is fascinating, by the way. Very similar to feelings on "Congress" vs. "My Congressperson."

https://x.com/ForecasterEnten/status/1866856971011514517

Tim Simmons

Lerxst1992 said:

pjl44 said:

Gern Blansten said:

pjl44 said:

Putting aside Elizabeth Warren's baseline stupidity and overinflated sense of self, it seems insane for a divisive government official to put this out in the ether. For self preservation if nothing else.

She's right. People will fight back as evidenced right here in front of you.

If the Presidential election were held next week I probably would have voted for Trump. The reaction of the left to this (including prominent elected officials as noted here) is batshit insane and most generously puts them at a wash with Republican looniness. (Unless they had a sane candidate speaking out clearly against this a la Fetterman or Shapiro.)

I'll preface by saying this murder is 100% wrong. But

NO YOU CANT DO THIS! Once you say “but” further discourse is no longer allowed! 

mickeyrat

pjl44 said:

One of my biggest hobby horses with healthcare that is probably way too involved to discuss on a message board: disentangle health insurance from employers. There are too many bad downstream effects that come from your health insurance being tied to your job.

you are free to choose from any number of plans within the aca.  even if or when you have employer offered insurance.

pjl44

Lerxst1992 said:

pjl44 said:

Any changes to the healthcare system should be made because they improve the healthcare system. Congress can get to work on that. It's not easy, it's complex. Warren's intimation that it becomes more urgent under threat of a bullet is vile.

It can be fixed quicker than any reply to this comment.

1. Let patient's doctors make complex healthcare decisions.

2. Tie out of pocket costs directly to the patients ability to pay.

Number 2 is extraordinarily difficult to execute fairly. It's why applying for Medicaid is a labyrinth.

pjl44

mickeyrat said:

pjl44 said:

One of my biggest hobby horses with healthcare that is probably way too involved to discuss on a message board: disentangle health insurance from employers. There are too many bad downstream effects that come from your health insurance being tied to your job.

you are free to choose from any number of plans within the aca.  even if or when you have employer offered insurance.

For most people it would be far more costly to opt out of their employer offered coverage and enroll in an ACA plan. I'm sure there are scenarios where it makes sense, but I'm talking about severing the tie to employment completely.

mace1229

Gern Blansten said:

mace1229 said:

Gern Blansten said:

mace1229 said:

Gern Blansten said:

mace1229 said:

josevolution said:

You know what’s bizarre about this killing which by the way I don’t condone! Pundits on fox are outraged about the sympathizers of Luigi but cheered loudly when Kyle Rittenhouse killed the protesters! 

You can't compare the two. One was a cold blood assassination, the other he fled for his life before fighting back.

But he inserted himself in the middle of a protest that he had no business being in.

I would agree a 17 year old should not be allowed to be armed in public. 
But he has as much business being there as anyone else.

Not carrying an assault rifle. My opinion.

I agree with part of your original statement, it was weird some outlets praised him as a hero. Just don't think it compares to this assassination. 

The lack of empathy for Rittenhouse's victims is definitely the same. The circumstances are different but his victims didn't have assault rifles.

Well, I have a hard time having empathy for someone who see's someone with an assault rifle running away from the crowd and thinks to themselves "Let me chase them down and swing this skateboard at their head." There were a lot of poor decisions made that night all around

mace1229

mickeyrat said:

pjl44 said:

One of my biggest hobby horses with healthcare that is probably way too involved to discuss on a message board: disentangle health insurance from employers. There are too many bad downstream effects that come from your health insurance being tied to your job.

you are free to choose from any number of plans within the aca.  even if or when you have employer offered insurance.

I would save a lot of money if my employer just paid me directly what they claim to pay insurance, and I was free to get my own coverage with it. These group policies tied to work have usually been junk when I compare cost to coverage. But it isn't worth it to pay 100% out of pocket for premiums by going somewhere else. 

mickeyrat

pjl44 said:

mickeyrat said:

pjl44 said:

One of my biggest hobby horses with healthcare that is probably way too involved to discuss on a message board: disentangle health insurance from employers. There are too many bad downstream effects that come from your health insurance being tied to your job.

you are free to choose from any number of plans within the aca.  even if or when you have employer offered insurance.

For most people it would be far more costly to opt out of their employer offered coverage and enroll in an ACA plan. I'm sure there are scenarios where it makes sense, but I'm talking about severing the tie to employment completely.

thanks but no. my employer is great. uhc administered hsa plan. 4k deductible.  6k total out of pocket for in network providers. out of network is still 4k deductable, total out of pocket doubles to 12k . in fact they strongly encourage the hsa plan as the cheaper option overall. having tested the waters last year , I kick myself for staying on ppo plan for so long.

out of pocket til 4k is reached but I pay insurance discounted pricing.

I am recovering from a total knee replacement surgery done yesterday. with few exceptions my employer has born all cost for me and my wife since April 1. No joke. Meds are co-pay for some of hers mine are at generic pricing.

I shouldnt see a medical bill and will pay for pt in the new plan year.

hsa dollars carryover and are investable with fidelity who also run our 401k plan....

ownership is conservative politically. but sees the value in taking care of drivers....

pjl44

mace1229 said:

mickeyrat said:

pjl44 said:

One of my biggest hobby horses with healthcare that is probably way too involved to discuss on a message board: disentangle health insurance from employers. There are too many bad downstream effects that come from your health insurance being tied to your job.

you are free to choose from any number of plans within the aca.  even if or when you have employer offered insurance.

I would save a lot of money if my employer just paid me directly what they claim to pay insurance, and I was free to get my own coverage with it. These group policies tied to work have usually been junk when I compare cost to coverage. But it isn't worth it to pay 100% out of pocket for premiums by going somewhere else. 

This, this, this

Lerxst1992

pjl44 said:

mickeyrat said:

pjl44 said:

One of my biggest hobby horses with healthcare that is probably way too involved to discuss on a message board: disentangle health insurance from employers. There are too many bad downstream effects that come from your health insurance being tied to your job.

you are free to choose from any number of plans within the aca.  even if or when you have employer offered insurance.

For most people it would be far more costly to opt out of their employer offered coverage and enroll in an ACA plan. I'm sure there are scenarios where it makes sense, but I'm talking about severing the tie to employment completely.

With this I completely agree. As far as medicaid being too difficult, people with limited resources figure out how to apply all the time. But....I was referring to a private insurance scheme where the max out of pocket is tied to salary. Most policies have a max out of pocket of approx $12k. Change that to percent of salary. Seems an easy fix, but....the wealthy buy senators and presidents and the masses get duped. Back to the Ruppert cookie story

Lerxst1992

pjl44 said:

There doesn't need to be a "but" when you're "condemning" murder

Here comes more but jokes...

But we can't ignore the why...

When you deny a medically needed procedure and instead tell the patient to stay loaded with pain medications there is significant risk of breaking someone's brain, which appears could be the cause of the murder here. If the perps brain was broken by the insurance company, why do we not assign any blame to them?

josevolution

pjl44 said:

josevolution said:

You know what’s bizarre about this killing which by the way I don’t condone! Pundits on fox are outraged about the sympathizers of Luigi but cheered loudly when Kyle Rittenhouse killed the protesters! 

Because Rittenhouse shot someone who attacked him. He didn't sneak out from behind a car and shoot someone in the back. You can question the wisdom of him putting himself in that situation but these incidents are not remotely analogous.

He became a MAGA hero invited to the WH by orange man! And why was he attacked? Because he was menacing protesters who were expressing their right to protest I get it they did cause damage but he was brandishing an AR15! So the right cheered for him they were happy he gunned down those protesters! Luigi needs to be put away for life no doubt 

Tim Simmons

Lerxst1992 said:

pjl44 said:

There doesn't need to be a "but" when you're "condemning" murder

why do we not assign any blame to them?

Well, we do have laws. And the law assigns all the blame to the perp. 

But self reflection by society and its institutions should always be occurring. And that’s what this has seemingly spurred. Hopefully we keep the discussion going. 

Lerxst1992

Tim Simmons said:

Lerxst1992 said:

pjl44 said:

There doesn't need to be a "but" when you're "condemning" murder

why do we not assign any blame to them?

Well, we do have laws. And the law assigns all the blame to the perp. 

But self reflection by society and its institutions should always be occurring. And that’s what this has seemingly spurred. Hopefully we keep the discussion going. 

C'mon man, editing out removes context. I'll answer your question with the Ruppert cookie story. That's the danger here. If one day the masses wake up after being dupped for so long (... manipulation of the law is part of the obfuscation...) there's going to be a violent hell to pay in this great country


"I heard a Ted talk years ago that posited that if the wealth gap was not fixed, people would come for the uber rich with torches and pitchforks. Only the uber rich had a solution—start a culture war. Trans people, immigration, Jewish space lasers, black people on welfare. There is a famous editorial cartoon. A man that looks like Rupert Murdoch has 1000 cookies in front of him. Another man has one cookie, a third, an immigrant has none. Rupert Murdoch says to the first man “Watch out, that man is going to take your cookie.”


This is all about Ruppert's cookies.

Tim Simmons

I agree. I edited to get more to the point that all systems are working as designed. 

I’m advocating reflection because we can only work within the frame work of these “perfect” systems and right now it’s try this murderer and let’s have the dialog on what can we do to prevent this (more fixes to HC in America).