One of my biggest hobby horses with healthcare that is probably way too involved to discuss on a message board: disentangle health insurance from employers. There are too many bad downstream effects that come from your health insurance being tied to your job.
you are free to choose from any number of plans within the aca. even if or when you have employer offered insurance.
I would save a lot of money if my employer just paid me directly what they claim to pay insurance, and I was free to get my own coverage with it. These group policies tied to work have usually been junk when I compare cost to coverage. But it isn't worth it to pay 100% out of pocket for premiums by going somewhere else.
Yeah skateboard vs assault rifle sounds fair...
Remember the Thomas Nine !! (10/02/2018) The Golden Age is 2 months away. And guess what….. you’re gonna love it! (teskeinc 11.19.24)
1998: Noblesville; 2003: Noblesville; 2009: EV Nashville, Chicago, Chicago 2010: St Louis, Columbus, Noblesville; 2011: EV Chicago, East Troy, East Troy 2013: London ON, Wrigley; 2014: Cincy, St Louis, Moline (NO CODE) 2016: Lexington, Wrigley #1; 2018: Wrigley, Wrigley, Boston, Boston 2020: Oakland, Oakland:2021: EV Ohana, Ohana, Ohana, Ohana 2022: Oakland, Oakland, Nashville, Louisville; 2023: Chicago, Chicago, Noblesville 2024: Noblesville, Wrigley, Wrigley, Ohana, Ohana; 2025: Pitt1, Pitt2
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
Concept of plan to be implemented by 1st week of February 2039! This incoming administration doesn’t want good healthcare if that was the case why not already have the blueprint for a plan to benefit all Americans? It’s been 9 years and running and Republicans don’t have a fucking clue on a plan and the head 🤡 has a concept but ACA is bad.
Concept of plan to be implemented by 1st week of February 2039! This incoming administration doesn’t want good healthcare if that was the case why not already have the blueprint for a plan to benefit all Americans? It’s been 9 years and running and Republicans don’t have a fucking clue on a plan and the head 🤡 has a concept but ACA is bad.
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
Concept of plan to be implemented by 1st week of February 2039! This incoming administration doesn’t want good healthcare if that was the case why not already have the blueprint for a plan to benefit all Americans? It’s been 9 years and running and Republicans don’t have a fucking clue on a plan and the head 🤡 has a concept but ACA is bad.
and he saved it....
😂😂 yes and he’s also responsible for the 1st man on the 🌚
There doesn't need to be a "but" when you're "condemning" murder
why do we not assign any blame to them?
Well, we do have laws. And the law assigns all the blame to the perp.
But self reflection by society and its institutions should always be occurring. And that’s what this has seemingly spurred. Hopefully we keep the discussion going.
A better writer than me summarizes my feelings re Warren and (maybe?) to your point here
There doesn't need to be a "but" when you're "condemning" murder
why do we not assign any blame to them?
Well, we do have laws. And the law assigns all the blame to the perp.
But self reflection by society and its institutions should always be occurring. And that’s what this has seemingly spurred. Hopefully we keep the discussion going.
A better writer than me summarizes my feelings re Warren and (maybe?) to your point here
There doesn't need to be a "but" when you're "condemning" murder
why do we not assign any blame to them?
Well, we do have laws. And the law assigns all the blame to the perp.
But self reflection by society and its institutions should always be occurring. And that’s what this has seemingly spurred. Hopefully we keep the discussion going.
A better writer than me summarizes my feelings re Warren and (maybe?) to your point here
With this in mind, what’s your take on the Daniel Penny situation?
But also, we should extract no lesson from this? or do they just not like warren so its convenient to tie a message and person they don't like together?
Like I said earlier, this reeks of being adjacent to every mass shooting dialog. People come out claiming that its "too soon" to address guns in society after a tragedy. But these same people never circle back to it (which is exactly how they want to deal with it) after some appropriate time. I don't think there is anything wrong with saying, this is a deplorable event, but do you see the correlation here too. Lets reflect on that and try to spur change to not only prevent people from thinking this is OK but also to improve lives.
This statement of Elizabeth’s is what has the fauxrage machine working overtime?
“The visceral response from people across the country who feel cheated, ripped off, and threatened by the vile practices of their insurance companies should be a warning to everyone in the healthcare system,”
There doesn't need to be a "but" when you're "condemning" murder
why do we not assign any blame to them?
Well, we do have laws. And the law assigns all the blame to the perp.
But self reflection by society and its institutions should always be occurring. And that’s what this has seemingly spurred. Hopefully we keep the discussion going.
A better writer than me summarizes my feelings re Warren and (maybe?) to your point here
With this in mind, what’s your take on the Daniel Penny situation?
But also, we should extract no lesson from this? or do they just not like warren so its convenient to tie a message and person they don't like together?
Like I said earlier, this reeks of being adjacent to every mass shooting dialog. People come out claiming that its "too soon" to address guns in society after a tragedy. But these same people never circle back to it (which is exactly how they want to deal with it) after some appropriate time. I don't think there is anything wrong with saying, this is a deplorable event, but do you see the correlation here too. Lets reflect on that and try to spur change to not only prevent people from thinking this is OK but also to improve lives.
Link below. Maybe paywalled? Also includes a similar contrast with Fetterman.
And correct we do not need to extract a lesson from a psychopath murdering someone in the street. We arrest and try them and get on with our day.
But also, we should extract no lesson from this? or do they just not like warren so its convenient to tie a message and person they don't like together?
Like I said earlier, this reeks of being adjacent to every mass shooting dialog. People come out claiming that its "too soon" to address guns in society after a tragedy. But these same people never circle back to it (which is exactly how they want to deal with it) after some appropriate time. I don't think there is anything wrong with saying, this is a deplorable event, but do you see the correlation here too. Lets reflect on that and try to spur change to not only prevent people from thinking this is OK but also to improve lives.
And correct we do not need to extract a lesson from a psychopath murdering someone in the street. We arrest and try them and get on with our day.
Ah so its EXACTLY like the guns argument. Standing athwart yelling, too bad so sad
But also, we should extract no lesson from this? or do they just not like warren so its convenient to tie a message and person they don't like together?
Like I said earlier, this reeks of being adjacent to every mass shooting dialog. People come out claiming that its "too soon" to address guns in society after a tragedy. But these same people never circle back to it (which is exactly how they want to deal with it) after some appropriate time. I don't think there is anything wrong with saying, this is a deplorable event, but do you see the correlation here too. Lets reflect on that and try to spur change to not only prevent people from thinking this is OK but also to improve lives.
Link below. Maybe paywalled? Also includes a similar contrast with Fetterman.
And correct we do not need to extract a lesson from a psychopath murdering someone in the street. We arrest and try them and get on with our day.
Ah so its EXACTLY like the guns argument. Standing athwart yelling, too bad so sad
I don't agree. Here's what I think the argument is:
You and I would probably disagree on how to reform the healthcare system despite agreeing it needs fixing. I have strong opinions but it's so convoluted that some of them could be wrong or produce unintended consequences. Hopefully you'd approach your views with the same humility. We could have had that discussion a month ago. I know I have with others here at least.
A healthcare executive being assassinated changes nothing. We could have the same conversation today or next week and it has no impact on my opinions. But that's embedded in what Warren and her ilk are saying. That this should move people's positions. Which is grotesque to take away from a murder.
But it's not too soon. You can have whatever conversation you want about healthcare whenever you want. There's just no reason to expect anyone's positions to have changed from a month ago.
But it did change something. The day after this BCBS reversed a policy on limiting payments for anesthesia.
But its not even about the how to fix things. Its about seeing this and saying, I understand how a misanthrope came to the decision to do this. Its not right and its not just, but the system which has been broken for sometime, has brought the end all be all worst consequence. Maybe we should attempt to improve society somewhat to prevent this from happening further. This is not a (non) negotiation with terrorists, this is the further eroding of societal balance because of misplaced priorities.
But it did change something. The day after this BCBS reversed a policy on limiting payments for anesthesia.
But its not even about the how to fix things. Its about seeing this and saying, I understand how a misanthrope came to the decision to do this. Its not right and its not just, but the system which has been broken for sometime, has brought the end all be all worst consequence. Maybe we should attempt to improve society somewhat to prevent this from happening further. This is not a (non) negotiation with terrorists, this is the further eroding of societal balance because of misplaced priorities.
We just disagree then. I completely reject this framing and the ideology that drives it.
There doesn't need to be a "but" when you're "condemning" murder
why do we not assign any blame to them?
Well, we do have laws. And the law assigns all the blame to the perp.
But self reflection by society and its institutions should always be occurring. And that’s what this has seemingly spurred. Hopefully we keep the discussion going.
A better writer than me summarizes my feelings re Warren and (maybe?) to your point here
With this in mind, what’s your take on the Daniel Penny situation?
Correct verdict by the jury
So you’re seeing an avoidable killing as justified.
I think there is an element of I don’t like this person regardless (the left, Warren, etc) and even if they say 2+2=4, I'm still gonna disagree. Ben has always had that huge energy. Thats NR article has it too. Because again, no one is saying murder is ok. People are just upset that empathy isn’t consistent across all murder.
There doesn't need to be a "but" when you're "condemning" murder
why do we not assign any blame to them?
Well, we do have laws. And the law assigns all the blame to the perp.
But self reflection by society and its institutions should always be occurring. And that’s what this has seemingly spurred. Hopefully we keep the discussion going.
A better writer than me summarizes my feelings re Warren and (maybe?) to your point here
With this in mind, what’s your take on the Daniel Penny situation?
Correct verdict by the jury
So you’re seeing an avoidable killing as justified.
If you at all see similarities between Daniel Penny and Luigi Mangione it's pointless to have a conversation
I think there is an element of I don’t like this person regardless (the left, Warren, etc) and even if they say 2+2=4, I'm still gonna disagree. Ben has always had that huge energy. Thats NR article has it too. Because again, no one is saying murder is ok. People are just upset that empathy isn’t consistent across all murder.
What? I thought it was about the healthcare system.
It is. People were meh on this guy getting killed because the HC system is broken and people have gone into debt or died because lack of coverage. That specific reaction to his death seems to have rubbed people the wrong way. So much so people wish they voted for Trump instead of being associated with liberalism and wish that all liberals would be outraged because murder rather than having varying degrees of empathy towards this situation.
But I don’t think we are gonna get anywhere new today. We both agree murder is murder hard stop. I’m just fine with people being thoughtful and self reflective on how we got to this place.
There doesn't need to be a "but" when you're "condemning" murder
why do we not assign any blame to them?
Well, we do have laws. And the law assigns all the blame to the perp.
But self reflection by society and its institutions should always be occurring. And that’s what this has seemingly spurred. Hopefully we keep the discussion going.
A better writer than me summarizes my feelings re Warren and (maybe?) to your point here
With this in mind, what’s your take on the Daniel Penny situation?
Correct verdict by the jury
So you’re seeing an avoidable killing as justified.
If you at all see similarities between Daniel Penny and Luigi Mangione it's pointless to have a conversation
Good that’s not all I see then. What a lot of your comments are about is being disturbed because people are justifying and/or empathizing with Mangione’s motive. So I’m asking do you justify Penny’s actions?
Yeah I don't agree with Luigi's tactics but we've all (most likely) been burned by our healthcare system over the years so we can see the frustration that builds. No different than the racists that kill perceived immigrants because trump constantly says they are murderers and rapists.
Remember the Thomas Nine !! (10/02/2018) The Golden Age is 2 months away. And guess what….. you’re gonna love it! (teskeinc 11.19.24)
1998: Noblesville; 2003: Noblesville; 2009: EV Nashville, Chicago, Chicago 2010: St Louis, Columbus, Noblesville; 2011: EV Chicago, East Troy, East Troy 2013: London ON, Wrigley; 2014: Cincy, St Louis, Moline (NO CODE) 2016: Lexington, Wrigley #1; 2018: Wrigley, Wrigley, Boston, Boston 2020: Oakland, Oakland:2021: EV Ohana, Ohana, Ohana, Ohana 2022: Oakland, Oakland, Nashville, Louisville; 2023: Chicago, Chicago, Noblesville 2024: Noblesville, Wrigley, Wrigley, Ohana, Ohana; 2025: Pitt1, Pitt2
The similarity I see with Penny/Rittenhouse/Zimmerman* with Luigi is more cultural than legal. We celebrate killing. As surprised I was was to see the celebration of the murder, maybe in hindsight I should not be. Kyle Rittenhouse is a cult hero because he went out an manufactured self defense so he could shoot people. We celebrate cops for shooting anyone that doesn't comply.
The difference is that this is just a very black-and-white assassination with no grey area.** But in terms of lionizing shooting people, this is the path we were on.
*If Zimmerman's incident had happened five-to-ten years later, I think he'd be every bit the cult hero that Rittenhouse is.
**I actually don't think this is a difference with Zimmerman; that was a cold-blooded murder.
1995 Milwaukee 1998 Alpine, Alpine 2003 Albany, Boston, Boston, Boston 2004 Boston, Boston 2006 Hartford, St. Paul (Petty), St. Paul (Petty) 2011 Alpine, Alpine 2013 Wrigley 2014 St. Paul 2016 Fenway, Fenway, Wrigley, Wrigley 2018 Missoula, Wrigley, Wrigley 2021 Asbury Park 2022 St Louis 2023 Austin, Austin
But it did change something. The day after this BCBS reversed a policy on limiting payments for anesthesia.
But its not even about the how to fix things. Its about seeing this and saying, I understand how a misanthrope came to the decision to do this. Its not right and its not just, but the system which has been broken for sometime, has brought the end all be all worst consequence. Maybe we should attempt to improve society somewhat to prevent this from happening further. This is not a (non) negotiation with terrorists, this is the further eroding of societal balance because of misplaced priorities.
We just disagree then. I completely reject this framing and the ideology that drives it.
As long as money dominates politics, it is extremely unlikely insurance companies will treat customers fairly. Or
Honest question, if your job involved putting your customers lives in extreme risk, and others in so much pain their mental health deteriorates...
... would you belive your job was safe or dangerous?
Comments
The Golden Age is 2 months away. And guess what….. you’re gonna love it! (teskeinc 11.19.24)
1998: Noblesville; 2003: Noblesville; 2009: EV Nashville, Chicago, Chicago
2010: St Louis, Columbus, Noblesville; 2011: EV Chicago, East Troy, East Troy
2013: London ON, Wrigley; 2014: Cincy, St Louis, Moline (NO CODE)
2016: Lexington, Wrigley #1; 2018: Wrigley, Wrigley, Boston, Boston
2020: Oakland, Oakland: 2021: EV Ohana, Ohana, Ohana, Ohana
2022: Oakland, Oakland, Nashville, Louisville; 2023: Chicago, Chicago, Noblesville
2024: Noblesville, Wrigley, Wrigley, Ohana, Ohana; 2025: Pitt1, Pitt2
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
and he saved it....
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
Libtardaplorable©. And proud of it.
Brilliantati©
Libtardaplorable©. And proud of it.
Brilliantati©
But also, we should extract no lesson from this? or do they just not like warren so its convenient to tie a message and person they don't like together?
Like I said earlier, this reeks of being adjacent to every mass shooting dialog. People come out claiming that its "too soon" to address guns in society after a tragedy. But these same people never circle back to it (which is exactly how they want to deal with it) after some appropriate time. I don't think there is anything wrong with saying, this is a deplorable event, but do you see the correlation here too. Lets reflect on that and try to spur change to not only prevent people from thinking this is OK but also to improve lives.
“But people can only be pushed so far.”
https://www.politico.com/news/2024/12/11/unitedhealthcare-ceo-killing-00193776
Libtardaplorable©. And proud of it.
Brilliantati©
And correct we do not need to extract a lesson from a psychopath murdering someone in the street. We arrest and try them and get on with our day.
https://www.nationalreview.com/corner/how-to-respond-to-an-assassination-and-how-never-to/
You and I would probably disagree on how to reform the healthcare system despite agreeing it needs fixing. I have strong opinions but it's so convoluted that some of them could be wrong or produce unintended consequences. Hopefully you'd approach your views with the same humility. We could have had that discussion a month ago. I know I have with others here at least.
A healthcare executive being assassinated changes nothing. We could have the same conversation today or next week and it has no impact on my opinions. But that's embedded in what Warren and her ilk are saying. That this should move people's positions. Which is grotesque to take away from a murder.
But it's not too soon. You can have whatever conversation you want about healthcare whenever you want. There's just no reason to expect anyone's positions to have changed from a month ago.
But its not even about the how to fix things. Its about seeing this and saying, I understand how a misanthrope came to the decision to do this. Its not right and its not just, but the system which has been broken for sometime, has brought the end all be all worst consequence. Maybe we should attempt to improve society somewhat to prevent this from happening further. This is not a (non) negotiation with terrorists, this is the further eroding of societal balance because of misplaced priorities.
The Golden Age is 2 months away. And guess what….. you’re gonna love it! (teskeinc 11.19.24)
1998: Noblesville; 2003: Noblesville; 2009: EV Nashville, Chicago, Chicago
2010: St Louis, Columbus, Noblesville; 2011: EV Chicago, East Troy, East Troy
2013: London ON, Wrigley; 2014: Cincy, St Louis, Moline (NO CODE)
2016: Lexington, Wrigley #1; 2018: Wrigley, Wrigley, Boston, Boston
2020: Oakland, Oakland: 2021: EV Ohana, Ohana, Ohana, Ohana
2022: Oakland, Oakland, Nashville, Louisville; 2023: Chicago, Chicago, Noblesville
2024: Noblesville, Wrigley, Wrigley, Ohana, Ohana; 2025: Pitt1, Pitt2
The difference is that this is just a very black-and-white assassination with no grey area.** But in terms of lionizing shooting people, this is the path we were on.
*If Zimmerman's incident had happened five-to-ten years later, I think he'd be every bit the cult hero that Rittenhouse is.
**I actually don't think this is a difference with Zimmerman; that was a cold-blooded murder.
2013 Wrigley 2014 St. Paul 2016 Fenway, Fenway, Wrigley, Wrigley 2018 Missoula, Wrigley, Wrigley 2021 Asbury Park 2022 St Louis 2023 Austin, Austin
His speech was protected until people started to actually listen and do the things he/she/they wanted.
I'm for free speech until it becomes libel.
Honest question, if your job involved putting your customers lives in extreme risk, and others in so much pain their mental health deteriorates...
... would you belive your job was safe or dangerous?