I've been involved in both, good and bad. The ones where fans have put themselves in control having arrived earliest using their own lists are the lines that I've seen the most abuse from. These lines have people farther back that get to watch some of those on the list who feel that it allows them to come and go all day rather than put in the true wait.[/quote]
Which PJ tour did you experience the bad lines?[/quote]
Mainly the 15 shows I caught during the Riot Act tour, but also Europe '07 and others. Sometimes it's been fine, when there's no list used.
1/95 DC 7/95 Chicago Tor Tol Cha 96 AlpV I II Chi St L KC 98 BSB I II 99 Phx Vegas Fresno SBern 00 BSB I II 01 (met ed) Vegas Phx Fargo St. Paul Chicago Alpine V Indy Col Virg Phi I II MSG I II (got on DVD!) 03 Calg 05 Clev Vegas LA I II SBar 06 Lon Dus Cop Nij Bel 07 Phi I II DC MSG I II Har BOS I II 08, LA3/4, SD '09, MSG I II '10, Missoula, London ONT, Wrigley, SD, LA1/2, Portland. Wrigley '16 I and II.
I've been involved in both, good and bad. The ones where fans have put themselves in control having arrived earliest using their own lists are the lines that I've seen the most abuse from. These lines have people farther back that get to watch some of those on the list who feel that it allows them to come and go all day rather than put in the true wait.
Which PJ tour did you experience the bad lines?
Mainly the 15 shows I caught during the Riot Act tour, but also Europe '07 and others. Sometimes it's been fine, when there's no list used.
The reason I ask is because I lined up in Europe last year and also a few US shows this year, and it's generally been a good experience. Maybe the abuse is a thing of the past if your last experience was from over 5 years ago and we shouldn't talk about it like it's happening in recent years (unless people have experienced it recently). Not saying it doesn't/won't happen but that generally hasn't been the spirit of the GA lines I've been in. I feel like if I were someone who has never waited in the GA line and I came across this thread, I would be so anxious about the whole thing!
Me and my girlfriend arrived at JPJ in Charlottesville at 7:00 and walked right up to 2nd from the rail on Mike's side. I don't see the need for a line or a list unless it's to satisfy the more anal members of the fan club.
Let's end this practice of first fans being in charge and creating "the list", writing ridiculous magic marker numbers on their hands, and abusing the actual wait that it takes to truly earn a good spot. The system needs to change. People can't enforce kicking out abusers that the list entitles. Where is the cutoff on being away from the line? Are you truly waiting when you're off at the pre-party eating for just a "quick bite"? It's total bullshit and needs to stop.
1/95 DC 7/95 Chicago Tor Tol Cha 96 AlpV I II Chi St L KC 98 BSB I II 99 Phx Vegas Fresno SBern 00 BSB I II 01 (met ed) Vegas Phx Fargo St. Paul Chicago Alpine V Indy Col Virg Phi I II MSG I II (got on DVD!) 03 Calg 05 Clev Vegas LA I II SBar 06 Lon Dus Cop Nij Bel 07 Phi I II DC MSG I II Har BOS I II 08, LA3/4, SD '09, MSG I II '10, Missoula, London ONT, Wrigley, SD, LA1/2, Portland. Wrigley '16 I and II.
I just saw this and I can't believe this is actually real. Also, I can't believe that people in line don't freak out when someone just drops in front of them. I mean if you need to hit the bathroom, sure...not a problem. But people leaving for hours? I...I just don't fathom how anyone could be ok with that.
It's happening. I read comments on the Facebook fan pages about people saying how glad they are that they can come and go.
1/95 DC 7/95 Chicago Tor Tol Cha 96 AlpV I II Chi St L KC 98 BSB I II 99 Phx Vegas Fresno SBern 00 BSB I II 01 (met ed) Vegas Phx Fargo St. Paul Chicago Alpine V Indy Col Virg Phi I II MSG I II (got on DVD!) 03 Calg 05 Clev Vegas LA I II SBar 06 Lon Dus Cop Nij Bel 07 Phi I II DC MSG I II Har BOS I II 08, LA3/4, SD '09, MSG I II '10, Missoula, London ONT, Wrigley, SD, LA1/2, Portland. Wrigley '16 I and II.
It's happening. I read comments on the Facebook fan pages about people saying how glad they are that they can come and go.
Then they're abusing the whole line/number thing or they don't understand the purpose. It's been ideal in Europe for situations where the venue hasn't yet put out the 'official' line/barriers. It means everyone knows in what order they arrived to queue should we have to move the line. Do people abuse it? Sure. Are they right to, hell no. If there wasn't a list/number thing going on would people abuse it? Of course (and in my experience in much greater numbers).
We (a couple) queue in Europe. There are 2 of us, we arrive together. We only leave for bathroom breaks and to buy a bite to eat and bring the food back to the line. It is extremely rare for both of us to be out of the line at the same time. Other than that, it's pavement time! The vast majority of people do exactly the same. I'd say less than 10% of people abuse it.
Before this started (and at gigs for other bands). You could be, say 15th, in the queue when you arrive. Sweet! By the time doors open each person/group of people tend to have friends/parents/kids join them (despite the mumblings of "we're just catching up, we won't be staying in line") and, bang, you're down to the 30s/40s. Also at a lot of venues they don't have lines etc. sorted out straight away so people just kind of congregate - when lines/barriers are set up it can then be a free for all and, despite having waited all day, you can get royally screewed over. We were at one gig where we were 4th and 5th in the queue when we arrived. By doors, there were 12 people ahead of us - that's waaaay more than 10%!! At another gig we were near the front of the queue. The venue decided quite late in the day they were going to use a different door for entry at the opposite end of the venue, as a result we were near the back of the queue as the people at the back of the line were nearer the new entrance.
Is it perfect? Nope. Will anything be perfect? Nope.
Would I favour with or without? I have to honestly say, with.
on2legs
Standing in the Jersey rain… Posts: 14,437
The drama caused by the the line and the list people including the OP will lead to the band dropping GA all together in the US. And you will have no one to blame but yourself.
1996: Randall's Island 2 1998: East Rutherford | MSG 1 & 2 2000: Cincinnati | Columbus | Jones Beach 1, 2, & 3 | Boston 1 | Camden 1 & 2 2003: Philadelphia | Uniondale | MSG 1 & 2 | Holmdel 2005: Atlantic City 1 2006: Camden 1 | East Rutherford 1 & 2 2008: Camden 1 & 2 | MSG 1 & 2 | Newark (EV) 2009: Philadelphia 1, 2 & 4 2010: Newark | MSG 1 & 2 2011: Toronto 1 2013: Wrigley Field | Brooklyn 2 | Philadelphia 1 & 2 | Baltimore 2015: Central Park 2016: Philadelphia 1 & 2 | MSG 1 & 2 | Fenway Park 2 | MSG (TOTD) 2017: Brooklyn (RnR HOF) 2020: MSG | Asbury Park2021: Asbury Park 2022: MSG | Camden | Nashville 2024: MSG 1 & 2 (#50) | Philadelphia 1 & 2 | Baltimore
We (a couple) queue in Europe. There are 2 of us, we arrive together. We only leave for bathroom breaks and to buy a bite to eat and bring the food back to the line. It is extremely rare for both of us to be out of the line at the same time. Other than that, it's pavement time! The vast majority of people do exactly the same. I'd say less than 10% of people abuse it.
Yep. Assholes are everywhere. But most people sit down and wait.
"Mostly I think that people react sensitively because they know you’ve got a point"
I'm just gonna put it out there that I hope there's a list and numbered hands in Dallas so we are free to roam until an hour or so before gates open. That'd be nice.
That's bullshit.
Agreed.
So, you run and touch a spot first, then get to enjoy the day doing no waiting, and are entitled to come strolling in anytime for your saved GA rail experience? Gimme a break. If it's worth the wait, then do the wait the right way. Drop the List, Drop the List....
The thing is. I went to one of the Philly shows, and where I was at in the line people were waiting (not counting going getting food or to the bathroom). So I don't think a list is wrong and the line is working, because from my experience people did do the waiting. At least around me, and everyone treated eachother great.
But, people saying "we should be able to roam free untill an hour till them opening the doors" are idiots. Those people have that kind of system - it's called reserved seating.
"Mostly I think that people react sensitively because they know you’ve got a point"
GA tix are pre-marked with priority numbers. Venue entrance priority (place in line) is based on that. That shifts the line with picking up the tickets and not getting into the venue.
Once tickets are picked up, go to the bar, do some sightseeing, and be back at the venue at a set time (say 4:30 PM) and claim the spot printed on your ticket.
Best of both worlds here, rewards people who get in line early to pick up tickets (a line you should not be able to leave), but allows you to go do some other things once they are picked up.
Maybe I'm not thinking this completely through, but seems like it would eliminate some of the GA problems people have been complaining about.
Either this, or hand out GA ticks randomly (in pairs with consecutive priority numbers) and eliminate the need to get there early at all. And as with the above, have a set time to be back and form the line.
Anyways, just my thoughts.
"Leave it to me as I find a way to be.
Consider me a satellite forever orbiting.
I knew all the rules but the rules did not know me.
Guaranteed."
The drama caused by the the line and the list people including the OP will lead to the band dropping GA all together in the US. And you will have no one to blame but yourself.
You think the band gives a shit about this crap??
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
I just think the list shouldn't be used. Nor should people have to mark numbers on their hands. If it's not run by the 10 Club or the venue, then I don't think any fan(s) has any such authority to implement it. At least until the end of Leg 2, fans are going to arrive early to line up to earn a great GA spot, there's no doubt about it. People that use the list to get out of truly waiting aren't acting with integrity. I agree that you should be able to leave for short times to use the bathroom, get food or drinks, get the tickets, etc. These breaks from the line really shouldn't last much longer than 10-15 minutes in my opinion. If you're off at the pre-party, or you're off showering at your hotel or any such absence from the line that lasts longer than 15 minutes and isn't really a necessity in nature, then in my eyes that is a bit abusive. I think it is worthy to see PJ up close whether it's on the rail or close to it. I understand why fans want to enjoy this experience and I have been able to do it a bunch of times myself. If you look at other famous groups, musicians, artists, the prices of tickets to experience them that close are sometimes in the thousands of dollars, or at least several hundreds for face value even. I'm sure the majority of fans are actually being great in line and having each other's backs. The fans that make the waiting the best it can be are of the right spirit. But let's face it: waiting all day on cement sidewalks sucks and isn't the easiest. That is why some will try to get out of it by claiming their numbered spot on the list. Fans should just show up, form the line, and be respectful about the process rather than being made to adhere to some list run by the earliest arriving fans.
1/95 DC 7/95 Chicago Tor Tol Cha 96 AlpV I II Chi St L KC 98 BSB I II 99 Phx Vegas Fresno SBern 00 BSB I II 01 (met ed) Vegas Phx Fargo St. Paul Chicago Alpine V Indy Col Virg Phi I II MSG I II (got on DVD!) 03 Calg 05 Clev Vegas LA I II SBar 06 Lon Dus Cop Nij Bel 07 Phi I II DC MSG I II Har BOS I II 08, LA3/4, SD '09, MSG I II '10, Missoula, London ONT, Wrigley, SD, LA1/2, Portland. Wrigley '16 I and II.
And just to provide an update. I did hear back from the 10 Club. Their message to me was this: If we change it for upcoming tours, we'll publish the change to let you know. For now, it's first come, first served.
So they didn't really have any comment on the list-making system by fans and its propensity in allowing some fans to get out of truly waiting.
1/95 DC 7/95 Chicago Tor Tol Cha 96 AlpV I II Chi St L KC 98 BSB I II 99 Phx Vegas Fresno SBern 00 BSB I II 01 (met ed) Vegas Phx Fargo St. Paul Chicago Alpine V Indy Col Virg Phi I II MSG I II (got on DVD!) 03 Calg 05 Clev Vegas LA I II SBar 06 Lon Dus Cop Nij Bel 07 Phi I II DC MSG I II Har BOS I II 08, LA3/4, SD '09, MSG I II '10, Missoula, London ONT, Wrigley, SD, LA1/2, Portland. Wrigley '16 I and II.
Haha, I was wondering the same thing. Surely someone who is actually involved in this list-making is reading this thread.... how about coming out of the shadows and explaining yourself?
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
Haha, I was wondering the same thing. Surely someone who is actually involved in this list-making is reading this thread.... how about coming out of the shadows and explaining yourself?
Haha, I was wondering the same thing. Surely someone who is actually involved in this list-making is reading this thread.... how about coming out of the shadows and explaining yourself?
They don't come around here. They're in line.
as for internet,they are on facebook-twitter,no here
at the venue they chat,having drinks,fun ,laughing,sharing stories,meetimg new and old frineds and will see in a few hours the best band on the planet from very close distance
best thing ever!!
"...Dimitri...He talks to me...'.."The Ghost of Greece..".
"..That's One Happy Fuckin Ghost.."
“..That came up on the Pillow Case...This is for the Greek, With Our Apologies.....”
"...Dimitri...He talks to me...'.."The Ghost of Greece..".
"..That's One Happy Fuckin Ghost.."
“..That came up on the Pillow Case...This is for the Greek, With Our Apologies.....”
i was a "list" man, but not by choice. i was first in line, thus as more people came it became a situation of people talking about the list, and it's such custom in the states that i wasn't going to be like "no list!". it didn't make much difference to me. of course people "abuse" the list, but what can you do? Beat em up? Even without a list or numbers it's still the same, it's fans governing fans. it's all a gray area. like where's the cutoff in the time you can leave? 10 mins? 20? so you see the only truly 100% "fair" way to do this is to literally never leave your spot in line, like how it is in south america. and that way would be fuckin brutal haha so as much as i think this line and list is ridiculous, i think considering our options it's the best way to make it "fair". it's a flawed system, but the alternative would be not even being able to leave to go to bathroom, or just chaos haha so yes, i was a "list" guy, what of it? :P
i was a "list" man, but not by choice. i was first in line, thus as more people came it became a situation of people talking about the list, and it's such custom in the states that i wasn't going to be like "no list!". it didn't make much difference to me. of course people "abuse" the list, but what can you do? Beat em up? Even without a list or numbers it's still the same, it's fans governing fans. it's all a gray area. like where's the cutoff in the time you can leave? 10 mins? 20? so you see the only truly 100% "fair" way to do this is to literally never leave your spot in line, like how it is in south america. and that way would be fuckin brutal haha so as much as i think this line and list is ridiculous, i think considering our options it's the best way to make it "fair". it's a flawed system, but the alternative would be not even being able to leave to go to bathroom, or just chaos haha so yes, i was a "list" guy, what of it? :P
Like you said, the list makes no difference, so lets get rid of it all together. It actually does make a difference, and that is it makes people think they can walk up to a line 5 hours later and step in front of somewhere because they have a number.
Comments
Which PJ tour did you experience the bad lines?[/quote]
Mainly the 15 shows I caught during the Riot Act tour, but also Europe '07 and others. Sometimes it's been fine, when there's no list used.
The reason I ask is because I lined up in Europe last year and also a few US shows this year, and it's generally been a good experience. Maybe the abuse is a thing of the past if your last experience was from over 5 years ago and we shouldn't talk about it like it's happening in recent years (unless people have experienced it recently). Not saying it doesn't/won't happen but that generally hasn't been the spirit of the GA lines I've been in. I feel like if I were someone who has never waited in the GA line and I came across this thread, I would be so anxious about the whole thing!
Let's end this practice of first fans being in charge and creating "the list", writing ridiculous magic marker numbers on their hands, and abusing the actual wait that it takes to truly earn a good spot. The system needs to change. People can't enforce kicking out abusers that the list entitles. Where is the cutoff on being away from the line? Are you truly waiting when you're off at the pre-party eating for just a "quick bite"? It's total bullshit and needs to stop.
'10- MSG 1-2 '11- PJ20
'12- MIA; DeLuna '13- Wrigley; Pitt; Brooklyn 1-2; Philly 1-2; Baltimore; Seattle
'14- Denver '16- Philly 1-2; MSG 2
'17- Pilgrimage Music Fest (Eddie)
'18- Fenway
Then they're abusing the whole line/number thing or they don't understand the purpose. It's been ideal in Europe for situations where the venue hasn't yet put out the 'official' line/barriers. It means everyone knows in what order they arrived to queue should we have to move the line. Do people abuse it? Sure. Are they right to, hell no. If there wasn't a list/number thing going on would people abuse it? Of course (and in my experience in much greater numbers).
We (a couple) queue in Europe. There are 2 of us, we arrive together. We only leave for bathroom breaks and to buy a bite to eat and bring the food back to the line. It is extremely rare for both of us to be out of the line at the same time. Other than that, it's pavement time! The vast majority of people do exactly the same. I'd say less than 10% of people abuse it.
Before this started (and at gigs for other bands). You could be, say 15th, in the queue when you arrive. Sweet! By the time doors open each person/group of people tend to have friends/parents/kids join them (despite the mumblings of "we're just catching up, we won't be staying in line") and, bang, you're down to the 30s/40s. Also at a lot of venues they don't have lines etc. sorted out straight away so people just kind of congregate - when lines/barriers are set up it can then be a free for all and, despite having waited all day, you can get royally screewed over. We were at one gig where we were 4th and 5th in the queue when we arrived. By doors, there were 12 people ahead of us - that's waaaay more than 10%!! At another gig we were near the front of the queue. The venue decided quite late in the day they were going to use a different door for entry at the opposite end of the venue, as a result we were near the back of the queue as the people at the back of the line were nearer the new entrance.
Is it perfect? Nope. Will anything be perfect? Nope.
Would I favour with or without? I have to honestly say, with.
http://www.strummersphotography.com
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Yep. Assholes are everywhere. But most people sit down and wait.
But, people saying "we should be able to roam free untill an hour till them opening the doors" are idiots. Those people have that kind of system - it's called reserved seating.
Christ.
All that I once held as true
I stand alone without beliefs
The only truth I know is you.
All that I once held as true
I stand alone without beliefs
The only truth I know is you.
GA tix are pre-marked with priority numbers. Venue entrance priority (place in line) is based on that. That shifts the line with picking up the tickets and not getting into the venue.
Once tickets are picked up, go to the bar, do some sightseeing, and be back at the venue at a set time (say 4:30 PM) and claim the spot printed on your ticket.
Best of both worlds here, rewards people who get in line early to pick up tickets (a line you should not be able to leave), but allows you to go do some other things once they are picked up.
Maybe I'm not thinking this completely through, but seems like it would eliminate some of the GA problems people have been complaining about.
Either this, or hand out GA ticks randomly (in pairs with consecutive priority numbers) and eliminate the need to get there early at all. And as with the above, have a set time to be back and form the line.
Anyways, just my thoughts.
"Leave it to me as I find a way to be.
Consider me a satellite forever orbiting.
I knew all the rules but the rules did not know me.
Guaranteed."
http://www.strummersphotography.com
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So they didn't really have any comment on the list-making system by fans and its propensity in allowing some fans to get out of truly waiting.
They don't come around here. They're in line.
7.9.03~9.28.04~10.1.05~5.12.06~5.13.06~5.27.06~5.28.06
8.5.08(EV)~10.9.09~5.21.10~6.20.11(EV)~7.5.11(EV)~7.9.11(EV)
11.21.13~8.27.16(EV)~11.14.16(TOTD)~4.13.20~9.27.20~9.26.21~10.2.21
2.15.22 (EV)~2.25.22 (EV)~2.27.22 (EV)~5.3.22~5.7.22~9.17.24~9.29.24
at the venue they chat,having drinks,fun ,laughing,sharing stories,meetimg new and old frineds and will see in a few hours the best band on the planet from very close distance
best thing ever!!
"..That's One Happy Fuckin Ghost.."
“..That came up on the Pillow Case...This is for the Greek, With Our Apologies.....”
But my avatar's message is in no way meant to include the word "you".
"..That's One Happy Fuckin Ghost.."
“..That came up on the Pillow Case...This is for the Greek, With Our Apologies.....”
Like you said, the list makes no difference, so lets get rid of it all together. It actually does make a difference, and that is it makes people think they can walk up to a line 5 hours later and step in front of somewhere because they have a number.
Let the line form at the ticket windows and then you get your "line" # based on how early you get your tickets.
1998: Noblesville; 2003: Noblesville; 2009: EV Nashville, Chicago, Chicago
2010: St Louis, Columbus, Noblesville; 2011: EV Chicago, East Troy, East Troy
2013: London ON, Chicago; 2014: Cincy, St Louis, Moline (NO CODE)
2016: Lexington, Wrigley #1; 2018: Wrigley, Wrigley, Boston, Boston
2020: Oakland, Oakland: 2021: EV Ohana, Ohana, Ohana, Ohana
2022: Oakland, Oakland, Nashville, Louisville; 2023: Chicago, Chicago, Noblesville
2024: Noblesville, Wrigley, Wrigley, Ohana, Ohana