US govt secretly collecting data on millions of Verizon user

hedonist

The Juggler wrote:

republican in office....democrat in office.

not sure how much more evidence people need to realize they're all the fucking same.

Huh. I read that as "they're all fucking the same".

Both fit.

unsung

Cliffy6745 wrote:

unsung wrote:

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/06/07/opinion/president-obamas-dragnet.html?ref=opinion


"The administration has now lost all credibility..."

"...on this issue"

Yeah, the issue of being for the people.

Byrnzie

hedonist wrote:

And what about other service providers? Why only Verizon?

This just doesn't make sense...why gather "anonymous" information - dates, times, calls made from X to Y - if further steps weren't in place?

viewtopic.php?f=13&t=207751#p5036373

The Juggler

unsung wrote:

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/06/07/opinion/president-obamas-dragnet.html?ref=opinion


"The administration has now lost all credibility..."

The New York Times Quietly Softened Its Scathing Obama Editorial

http://gawker.com/the-new-york-times-qu ... -511791553

....the new york times

Byrnzie

SPEEDY MCCREADY wrote:

Oh Oh

So the government will know who I ordered my pizza from last week?

:P

No, the government will intercept private telephone conversations between individuals they deem to be a threat (independently of any due process, or warrants - see the case of Dr. Sami Al-Arian: http://www.counterpunch.org/2007/03/03/ ... -al-arian/), classify the information they obtain as 'secret evidence' - meaning it needn't be disclosed in a court of law, and imprison U.S citizens indefinitely without charge or trial, on the grounds of 'Providing material support for terrorism', which includes offering “training,” “expert advice or assistance,” “service,” and “personnel.” I.e, anybody who says something they don't like involving any group the government decide is a terrorist organization, such as Hamas, the Kurdistan Workers' Party, and the governments of Cuba, and Iran, then they can be seized and carted off abroad under the terms of 'extraordinary rendition', and tortured, and imprisoned indefinitely without trial.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extraordinary_rendition
According to the former CIA case officer Bob Baer, "If you want a serious interrogation, you send a prisoner to Jordan. If you want them to be tortured, you send them to Syria. If you want someone to disappear—never to see them again—you send them to Egypt."

According to a 4 December 2005 article in The Washington Post by Dana Priest:

"Members of the Rendition Group follow a simple but standard procedure: Dressed head to toe in black, including masks, they blindfold and cut the clothes off their new captives, then administer an enema and sleeping drugs. They outfit detainees in a diaper and jumpsuit for what can be a day-long trip. Their destinations: either a detention facility operated by cooperative countries in the Middle East and Central Asia, including Afghanistan, or one of the CIA's own covert prisons—referred to in classified documents as "black sites," which at various times have been operated in eight countries, including several in Eastern Europe."


Not that I doubt you'll have anything to worry about. Just as most German citizens in the 1930's had nothing to worry about. But not everyone's so fortunate: http://www.salon.com/2012/04/16/persona ... es_abuses/





Enjoy your pizza.

Byrnzie

And it just gets better and better:


http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/ju ... s-nsa-data

NSA taps in to internet giants' systems to mine user data, secret files reveal

• Top secret PRISM program claims direct access to servers of firms including Google, Facebook and Apple
• Companies deny any knowledge of program in operation since 2007


Glenn Greenwald and Ewen MacAskill
The Guardian, Thursday 6 June 2013


The National Security Agency has obtained direct access to the systems of Google, Facebook, Apple and other US internet giants, according to a top secret document obtained by the Guardian.

The NSA access is part of a previously undisclosed program called PRISM, which allows officials to collect material including search history, the content of emails, file transfers and live chats, the document says.

The Guardian has verified the authenticity of the document, a 41-slide PowerPoint presentation – classified as top secret with no distribution to foreign allies – which was apparently used to train intelligence operatives on the capabilities of the program. The document claims "collection directly from the servers" of major US service providers.

Although the presentation claims the program is run with the assistance of the companies, all those who responded to a Guardian request for comment on Thursday denied knowledge of any such program...

even flow - question mark

Seems some people who have no problem with this happening as they have nothing to hide would have no problem with Jim down the street who thinks his wife is fooling around on him, looking in his neighbours windows to see if that is the house she is at. Don't think it is the same thing? The only thing different is Jim is not the government.

Jason P

Now that we know the US government is monitoring all electronic data, everyone should watch this YouTube video of a "mind reader".

Random people come in to get their mind's read and are blown away by how much this guy knows ... then they reveal that there are four guys behind a curtain on the internet doing searches on the marks.

The video was a PA to let everyone be aware of how much of their life is online.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F7pYHN9iC9I

riotgrl

Jason P wrote:

Now that we know the US government is monitoring all electronic data, everyone should watch this YouTube video of a "mind reader".

Random people come in to get their mind's read and are blown away by how much this guy knows ... then they reveal that there are four guys behind a curtain on the internet doing searches on the marks.

The video was a PA to let everyone be aware of how much of their life is online.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F7pYHN9iC9I

Makes me want to log off forever. But then I think about how difficult it would be to extricate myself from some things, like my bank account.

mikepegg44

JimmyV wrote:

Are my cell phone records being kept private really a civil liberty? I'm not so sure. My life is no different because the NSA has access to these records. I am no less free to do the things I want to do. This sounds like a scary issue on face but the more I think about it the less scary it is.

It isn't about assumed privacy. There is certainly no right to privacy explicitly guaranteed in the constitution. It is certainly implied by the 4th and 5th that our possible invasions of privacy will be given due process and protection from gov't agencies. (4th and 5th). The 4th amendment is a prime example of giving an inch to the gov't and they slowly but surely take that mile. Started in the mid 20th century and has slowly eroded to almost non-existent today.

Why is it, and I am not including you Jimmy in this because you are pretty consistent in your positions, that there are some who staunchly defend the 2nd amendment and call themselves defenders of the constitution are pretty much silent or ok with the assault that takes place daily on the 4th and 5th? those same constitutional defenders supported the Patriot Act. Those same constitutional defenders say things like, I don't care if the gov't does this, I have nothing to hide. Amazing what happens when the rights supposedly being violated belong to your neighbor and not yourself.

These stories will die out as quickly as they erupted and most won't give a god damn. The hardest part about being principled in your arguments is when you are faced with situations that may benefit what you perceive as a negative. Far too often those on the right are not consistent. They muddy the waters with exceptions to each principle they want everyone else to follow.

Tough on crime, forced collection of DNA when not found guilty of anything, keeping marijuana illegal, patriot act provisions that allow actions like the NSA took...all things the right continues to be all over the map on. The same principles that guide wanting the gov't out of your life applies to ALL things private...including drug use and gay marriage. Fucking hypocrites drive me bonkers.

/rant

pjhawks

chadwick wrote:

unsung wrote:

chadwick wrote:

wanna take your country back?

stop

stop everything & go on strike by the country size

i've always daydreamed about shutting down tobacco companies. every single person stops smoking & chewing. in one day they will be screwed. focus is our friend as is unity & strength & intelligence

throw phones in the trash. 30 days with no phone calls would be hysterical. don't buy the milk full of preservative & steroids

Everyone opt out of paying taxes until April 15. Don't give them a constant stream of spending money.

everyone would quit working for a few weeks or months rebooting the system

wow really. if everyone quit working for a few weeks or months the world economy would be destroyed and you would literally be back in the dark ages. pure lunacy.

Go Beavers

No one should be surprised by this, since it was outlined in Patriot Act a long time ago. I'm sure most of us can remember 11 or so years ago that if you questioned anything done under the guise of increasing security, you were a terrorist sympathizer. Now the same proud Americans are upset that their rights are infringed upon. Maybe they thought this would only be used against the dark skinned people?

Who's the dick who named it the 'Patriot Act' anyway?

hedonist

Byrnzie wrote:

hedonist wrote:

And what about other service providers? Why only Verizon?

This just doesn't make sense...why gather "anonymous" information - dates, times, calls made from X to Y - if further steps weren't in place?

viewtopic.php?f=13&t=207751#p5036373

Yup. Free (or feeling free) in some senses; others, not so much.

I love how the head of the NSA straight up lied about this, too.

unsung

"No more illegal wiretapping of American citizens, no more ignoring the law when it is an inconvenience, this administration acts like violating civil liberties is the way to enhance our security. It is not. There are no shortcuts to protecting America."

----Barack Obama 2007

mikepegg44

Go Beavers wrote:

Who's the dick who named it the 'Patriot Act' anyway?

Uniting and Stregnthening America by Providing Appropriate Tools Required (to) Intercept (and) Obstruct Terrorism act



Rep. Jim Sensenbrenner, R-Wisc

Just about exactly what I would have thought he would look like.

Hated it then, hate it more now after constant re-ups and re-authorizations by those who complain about gov't intrusion loudly. Expansion of the ideology that created the Patriot act into other acts and policies is going to greatly change this country in the next 30 years even more than the last 10-12 have. Makes me sad to think about.

But hey, if you aren't doing anything wrong you have nothing to worry about right?

pjhawks

mikepegg44 wrote:

Go Beavers wrote:

Who's the dick who named it the 'Patriot Act' anyway?

Uniting and Stregnthening America by Providing Appropriate Tools Required (to) Intercept (and) Obstruct Terrorism act



Rep. Jim Sensenbrenner, R-Wisc

Just about exactly what I would have thought he would look like.

Hated it then, hate it more now after constant re-ups and re-authorizations by those who complain about gov't intrusion loudly. Expansion of the ideology that created the Patriot act into other acts and policies is going to greatly change this country in the next 30 years even more than the last 10-12 have. Makes me sad to think about.

But hey, if you aren't doing anything wrong you have nothing to worry about right?

not defending what the gov't is doing here but can you give me one instance where your life on a daily basis is different today because of the Patriot Act than it was 10-12 years ago? the fact is for 99.99% of the US population it hasn't changed shit about their daily lives. so the government got my Verizon records, guess what some douche at Verizon already had access to them before the NSA did.

mikepegg44

pjhawks wrote:

not defending what the gov't is doing here but can you give me one instance where your life on a daily basis is different today because of the Patriot Act than it was 10-12 years ago? the fact is for 99.99% of the US population it hasn't changed shit about their daily lives. so the government got my Verizon records, guess what some douche at Verizon already had access to them before the NSA did.

Every American is affected by this in one way or another. Am I in jail, no. But other Americans have had their lives affected by it. Other people around the world have had their lives affected by it. Do you think they are all terrorists?

I guess I could simply look at it and say these actions are a collective effort to keep you safe. I guess when you specifically have your freedom taken away because you talked to someone for years who ended up not being who they portrayed themselves to be then we can complain?

Stop and Frisk in New York City is a direct result of this 'patriot act' line of thinking. Have I been frisked, no, have other innocent citizens, absolutely. Swallowing the patriot act because it has not directly affected the majority of Americans is going to just make the next poison pill that much easier to swallow. It isn't about me, it is about a great country turning on itself because some extremists are dangerous. I don't want that.

As I have said many times, when you allow a 'little', they will keep taking more in 'little' increments so that it always feel like it is simply just a little intrusion.

Jason P

mikepegg44 wrote:

Rep. Jim Sensenbrenner, R-Wisc

He looks like the Big Lebowski.

Jason P

unsung wrote:

"No more illegal wiretapping of American citizens, no more ignoring the law when it is an inconvenience, this administration acts like violating civil liberties is the way to enhance our security. It is not. There are no shortcuts to protecting America."

----Barack Obama 2007

Things become different when you are handed the big stick and have to deal with reality.

mikepegg44

Jason P wrote:

unsung wrote:

"No more illegal wiretapping of American citizens, no more ignoring the law when it is an inconvenience, this administration acts like violating civil liberties is the way to enhance our security. It is not. There are no shortcuts to protecting America."

----Barack Obama 2007

Things become different when you are handed the big stick and have to deal with reality.

is it that or is it that people are handed the big stick and don't want to give it up so they lose some of their principles in place of what will get them re-elected?