Forced Religion
Comments
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You don't have to convince me. Actually I was going to say if anyone can help your nephewHugh Freaking Dillon wrote:pandora wrote:It seems your mother and your brother connected with the message.
I'm glad they have each other in their faith.
Do you think having to go to church taught you to be a more disciplined adult?
If I saw your nephew I would see the young man very differently than you do.
I am not afraid of God, religion or the very faithful. You see this as negative, I can not.
As brainwashing, I will not.
The only negative I saw was one brother pitted against the other.
I'm sure your young adult in your family sees the same. He sees you wanting him to denounce
what you have. This boy's faith is not a competition between brothers.
We don't have to share the same beliefs. You are preaching tolerance, show some.
Unconditional love will win every time. You can be a great example role model to him still.
For him always...forever. He has a lot of learning to do.
it's funny that you assume my mother and brother are connected in their faith. that couldn't be further from the truth. my mother herself has told him to stuff it with all his preaching (for example, whenever she'd say "oh my god", he'd say in a snarky way "mine too!"). She is very private in her beliefs and has told him to keep his to himself as well.
I'm not "pitted" against my brother. we just don't have the same beliefs.
OUR FAMILY IS INTENSELY CLOSE. IT BECAME CLOSER WHEN WE TOLD THE BELIEVERS TO KEEP THEIR BULLSHIT TO THEMSELVES. EVEN MY BROTHER WOULD AGREE THAT OUR FAMILY IS BETTER OFF FOR HIM AND HIS WIFE KEEPING THEIR MOUTHS SHUT.
no, you don't know what you'd think if you saw my nephew. you have no idea what it was like. I have more tolerance than you care to see, and that's your problem. I just don't have tolerance for assholes who smirk and tell me I'm going to hell because I don't do/believe what they do.
I am a great role model for my nephew. I don't need to go to church or believe in god to show him that. My sister's husband believes in god and is a fucking drunk loser who is a horrible role model. if god was a such a good role model, why would my brother be teaching his son that homosexuality is a disease that can be cured through the love the god? it's hate speech is what it is.
why the hell would going to church have any effect on how disciplined an adult a person is?
with tolerance it would be you. You get heated, angry on this subject and negative.
Family dynamics come into play as well that keeps things from being impartial.
It is always good to avoid religion and politics in family discussions when emotions run so high.
Speaking of hate you sound like you are hating. I thought bringing in unconditional love
for these family members, as you are asking of them, that perhaps you could be the example
of this love and acceptance that will shine through to your nephew. He could see you accept
him whatever his beliefs and the same for his Dad.
It doesn't bother me your brother would think I am hell bound. I got that a lot in life.
I know better. If you surround yourself with love not much hurts.
Be the bigger brother the one with the big heart. Ignore the rest.
It's that heart your nephew will see just not overnight.0 -
I answered why I thought religion is taught at a young age. Maybe you didn't like my answer.Hugh Freaking Dillon wrote:again you choose to read what you want and assume even more. I only call it brainwashing when it involves children. once again, no one will answer the question why we "teach" religion to kids when they could easily be taught this when they are older and able to understand the concepts. the only reason it's taught as a young age is because if you told them this at an age of being able to think critically, they'd call you insane.
I am not afraid of god any more than I'm afraid of the loch ness monster.although, I do think it's more believable to acknowledge the existence of the latter.
my nephew doesn't view me as me wanting him to denounce anything. I simply want him to think for himself, which he hasn't done yet. which can't really be expected of him at this age anyway.
it's very telling that I'm not out to "bring him to the dark side" since up until a few months ago, he assumed our whole family believed the same as he and his parents do. yeah, that's how active we are against the church.
It was positive, family based.
I used the word afraid because you mentioned scary thats all.
I hope your expectations for your nephew are only happiness, in whatever way makes him so.
He may think for himself and it might not be what you believe or want. Hopefully if he thinks
and believes similar to his Dad you won't dispel that and say he is not thinking for himself.
Religion might remain a huge part of his life. That's exciting too.0 -
pandora wrote:
I answered why I thought religion is taught at a young age. Maybe you didn't like my answer.Hugh Freaking Dillon wrote:again you choose to read what you want and assume even more. I only call it brainwashing when it involves children. once again, no one will answer the question why we "teach" religion to kids when they could easily be taught this when they are older and able to understand the concepts. the only reason it's taught as a young age is because if you told them this at an age of being able to think critically, they'd call you insane.
I am not afraid of god any more than I'm afraid of the loch ness monster.although, I do think it's more believable to acknowledge the existence of the latter.
my nephew doesn't view me as me wanting him to denounce anything. I simply want him to think for himself, which he hasn't done yet. which can't really be expected of him at this age anyway.
it's very telling that I'm not out to "bring him to the dark side" since up until a few months ago, he assumed our whole family believed the same as he and his parents do. yeah, that's how active we are against the church.
It was positive, family based.
I used the word afraid because you mentioned scary thats all.
I hope your expectations for your nephew are only happiness, in whatever way makes him so.
He may think for himself and it might not be what you believe or want. Hopefully if he thinks
and believes similar to his Dad you won't dispel that and say he is not thinking for himself.
Religion might remain a huge part of his life. That's exciting too.
yes, I couldn't care less what he believes as an adult. I don't fault him for anything for his beliefs. I don't fault anyone for their beliefs. I fault parents for indoctrination.
I didn't know you answered the question because it wasn't really an answer.Gimli 1993
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 20140 -
He is a young adult but not an adult.redrock wrote:know1 - it's fantastic that you have found a church you enjoy attending and that you find it a positive experience. Unfortunately, for the young man from the original post, the church does not bring him anything positive - on the contrary. I understand that his parents,as part of their understanding of parenting, 'shared' their beliefs and how to express those beliefs with him and he accepted that. Now that he is a young adult, all he is asking is that his parents accept his beliefs without being 'demonised' for them. Acceptance/tolerance goes both ways.
He is part of this family, this family goes to church as a family.
When he leaves as an adult he will choose for himself. He may choose to please his parents
and still attend when he is staying in their family home. Absence does make the heart grow fonder.
To me that is respectful and done out of love.
Then they'll go out for a great Sunday brunch after. And he might even realize he has missed
this family tradition just a little bit, he's missed this family bond. Memories are made of this.0 -
ah ha you didn't like it...Hugh Freaking Dillon wrote:[
yes, I couldn't care less what he believes as an adult. I don't fault him for anything for his beliefs. I don't fault anyone for their beliefs. I fault parents for indoctrination.
I didn't know you answered the question because it wasn't really an answer.
I said
it is a way of life. That would be why you would teach your children from young on.
Religion unites, bonds and teaches age appropriate lessons that the whole family can share.
I related watching my daughter at her age and the remarkable difference church has had and said
This would be true from small on. It would matter not what age your child is,
a parent would see the positive that church can provide.
People who don't like religion or church call it indoctrination or forcing religion.
Many many need and love it and enjoy the family bonding time church and shared beliefs bring.
Thats' my answer...0 -
pandora wrote:You don't have to convince me. Actually I was going to say if anyone can help your nephew
with tolerance it would be you. You get heated, angry on this subject and negative.
Family dynamics come into play as well that keeps things from being impartial.
It is always good to avoid religion and politics in family discussions when emotions run so high.
Speaking of hate you sound like you are hating. I thought bringing in unconditional love
for these family members, as you are asking of them, that perhaps you could be the example
of this love and acceptance that will shine through to your nephew. He could see you accept
him whatever his beliefs and the same for his Dad.
It doesn't bother me your brother would think I am hell bound. I got that a lot in life.
I know better. If you surround yourself with love not much hurts.
Be the bigger brother the one with the big heart. Ignore the rest.
It's that heart your nephew will see just not overnight.
I get heated with anyone who makes wild assumptions and makes passive aggressive nonsensical comments to other people, all the while judging them. you keep making it personal and it's annoying.
my hour long discussion with my brother and his wife and his son, even though they were judging my very being and saying many condescending things that you have often said in threads of this nature, was very respectful and calm.
I don't hate anyone or anything. that's a waste of energy and time.Gimli 1993
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 20140 -
ok...Hugh Freaking Dillon wrote:pandora wrote:You don't have to convince me. Actually I was going to say if anyone can help your nephew
with tolerance it would be you. You get heated, angry on this subject and negative.
Family dynamics come into play as well that keeps things from being impartial.
It is always good to avoid religion and politics in family discussions when emotions run so high.
Speaking of hate you sound like you are hating. I thought bringing in unconditional love
for these family members, as you are asking of them, that perhaps you could be the example
of this love and acceptance that will shine through to your nephew. He could see you accept
him whatever his beliefs and the same for his Dad.
It doesn't bother me your brother would think I am hell bound. I got that a lot in life.
I know better. If you surround yourself with love not much hurts.
Be the bigger brother the one with the big heart. Ignore the rest.
It's that heart your nephew will see just not overnight.
I get heated with anyone who makes wild assumptions and makes passive aggressive nonsensical comments to other people, all the while judging them. you keep making it personal and it's annoying.
my hour long discussion with my brother and his wife and his son, even though they were judging my very being and saying many condescending things that you have often said in threads of this nature, was very respectful and calm.
I don't hate anyone or anything. that's a waste of energy and time.0 -
pandora wrote:
ah ha you didn't like it...Hugh Freaking Dillon wrote:[
yes, I couldn't care less what he believes as an adult. I don't fault him for anything for his beliefs. I don't fault anyone for their beliefs. I fault parents for indoctrination.
I didn't know you answered the question because it wasn't really an answer.
I said
it is a way of life. That would be why you would teach your children from young on.
Religion unites, bonds and teaches age appropriate lessons that the whole family can share.
I related watching my daughter at her age and the remarkable difference church has had and said
This would be true from small on. It would matter not what age your child is,
a parent would see the positive that church can provide.
People who don't like religion or church call it indoctrination or forcing religion.
Many many need and love it and enjoy the family bonding time church and shared beliefs bring.
Thats' my answer...
yeah, I saw that, and it's not that I don't like it. it just doesn't answer the question. your daughter found her faith at a much older age, when she was able to make that choice on her own, away from any other sources of impression. I see nothing wrong with that. that's her choice, and she's free to make it and I respect that.
I never said I don't like religion or don't like church. I think it would be naive to paint it all with one brush. Keep it to what this thread is about: forced religion. it's wrong and it shouldn't be done.Gimli 1993
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 20140 -
pandora wrote:Then they'll go out for a great Sunday brunch after.
Awww.... How quaint. Makes it all ok then for this young man. Makes it ok that his parents think he is fucked. Makes it ok that his parents have no tolerance towards his beliefs, no acceptance. Yep a nice brunch will erase all those memories already made. Let's be real here.0 -
sounds like you could be speaking from your own experience maybe :?redrock wrote:pandora wrote:Then they'll go out for a great Sunday brunch after.
Awww.... How quaint. Makes it all ok then for this young man. Makes it ok that his parents think he is fucked. Makes it ok that his parents have no tolerance towards his beliefs, no acceptance. Yep a nice brunch will erase all those memories already made. Let's be real here.
I speak from my own also0 -
but how do we know it's forced... for the OP yes but what about the countless otherHugh Freaking Dillon wrote:pandora wrote:
ah ha you didn't like it...Hugh Freaking Dillon wrote:[
yes, I couldn't care less what he believes as an adult. I don't fault him for anything for his beliefs. I don't fault anyone for their beliefs. I fault parents for indoctrination.
I didn't know you answered the question because it wasn't really an answer.
I said
it is a way of life. That would be why you would teach your children from young on.
Religion unites, bonds and teaches age appropriate lessons that the whole family can share.
I related watching my daughter at her age and the remarkable difference church has had and said
This would be true from small on. It would matter not what age your child is,
a parent would see the positive that church can provide.
People who don't like religion or church call it indoctrination or forcing religion.
Many many need and love it and enjoy the family bonding time church and shared beliefs bring.
Thats' my answer...
yeah, I saw that, and it's not that I don't like it. it just doesn't answer the question. your daughter found her faith at a much older age, when she was able to make that choice on her own, away from any other sources of impression. I see nothing wrong with that. that's her choice, and she's free to make it and I respect that.
I never said I don't like religion or don't like church. I think it would be naive to paint it all with one brush. Keep it to what this thread is about: forced religion. it's wrong and it shouldn't be done.
young people who find it awesome? Are you saying no children should be allowed to go to church?
Or just that it is up to the parents?
To touch on discipline... doing something you don't want to do because you have to.
Teaching children there are things they must do. This is all about good parenting.
As far as my daughter I think she might have wished she had grown up in church because
it makes her think, learn, feel, believe in other people. It is good, very good.
She missed out on this until she is 27.How much more awesome might she have been?0 -
pandora wrote:
Someone's making assumptions of someone who left a long time ago.0 -
Good parenting is not about yelling at your son and telling him he's fucked because, as a young adult, he found the beliefs of his parents are not his anymore. Something very personal that a parent should respect and not insult him for it.pandora wrote:This is all about good parenting.
Thus the importance of the role of the parents in giving the children all the tools and exposure necessary to find their path as they are growing up. And respecting that path.pandora wrote:She missed out on this until she is 27.0 -
:?pandora wrote:
What does this have to do with the assumptions you made about the intention of my post ? You're getting muddled with all your assumptions! 0 -
You're probably right Jeanwah! Though you never know - he might be lurking. A bit bewildered about the turn of things, perhaps!
0 -
pandora wrote:but how do we know it's forced... for the OP yes but what about the countless other
young people who find it awesome? Are you saying no children should be allowed to go to church?
Or just that it is up to the parents?
To touch on discipline... doing something you don't want to do because you have to.
Teaching children there are things they must do. This is all about good parenting.
As far as my daughter I think she might have wished she had grown up in church because
it makes her think, learn, feel, believe in other people. It is good, very good.
She missed out on this until she is 27.How much more awesome might she have been?
I'm talking about situations like the OP's.......people who are teenagers, starting to think for themselves and question the world that is around them. If you don't let them express themselves, then you are hurting them and yourselves and their future selves. it's irresponsible.
I enjoyed sunday school. But when I got too old for that (12) and my parents saw how I was at church during the sermons, and since I was then old enough to be at home alone, they realized they should leave it up to me. what's the point if I get nothing out of it? I'm not saying leave it up to a 4 year old. My kids (6 and 3) love it when my wife takes them to children's mass once a month. and there's a pancake breakfast after. they love it. I'm not going to take that away from them. I'm just not going to join in. I don't believe in god, I'm not going to go spend time with people who worship him and listen to what I consider nonsense for an hour. I'm with my kids the other 167 hours of the week, I think they can do without me for that 1. I'd never say to anyone, child, parent, spouse, ANYONE, "come with me to church, so we can be together". We can be together at home too, or in the park, some place we both enjoy. Asking someone to go somewhere they don't like or don't believe in is SELFISH.Gimli 1993
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 20140 -
pandora wrote:As far as my daughter I think she might have wished she had grown up in church because
it makes her think, learn, feel, believe in other people. It is good, very good.
She missed out on this until she is 27.How much more awesome might she have been?
I don't know, maybe just accept her for how awesome she is, not how awesome she could have been.
I see what you mean about tolerance, and I agree. But how can you tolerate people who preach hate messages? you're ok with that?
My point is that religion/spirituality should be a journey of the individual that one finds on their own through experience and searching. not "sit here and listen". Christianity is not my way. And it shouldn't have been pushed on me, and it wasn't. I was given the option, rightfully so. I think the way my parents handled it was top notch. and I have found my own way now.
it's interesting that people think someone who is legally allowed to choose who to have sex with and drive a car on their own still think it's ok to force them how to think on Sundays.Gimli 1993
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 20140 -
81 wrote:chadwick wrote:get a job & make your own money to pay your own phone bill & buy your own television & pay the cable guy his monthly charge or give up cable altogether.
not bad advice.....
although, and i don't know about his family or plans, but it could impact other things like college funding.
suck tho...i feel for you kid. i guess it could be a life lesson...that sometimes we just gotta do shit even if we don't wanna do shit. my advice...find a cute girl and an empty room.
And get some condoms! :thumbup:0
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