Also (and I'm sorry if this is out of line) but did anyone else think of that Simps episode where Homer skipped church on a snowy Sunday and made waffles wrapped around a stick of butter?
They're his parents. They're supposed to make him do stuff they believe in.
Exactly this is what parents do instill values, educate, teach what they themselves believe in
and then children take what speaks to their hearts and go as adults.
I was not taught religion because my parents weren't.
I was an atheist till I was 40 so I did not give my children the knowledge of God.
It is upon them now to seek out what they believe and they are.
But still I did not give the joy I now have in my heart to them at a much earlier age.
I did not know God to give to them. It is a great gift to give.
So... the children born of Westboro Church goers must adopt their parents' values and perpetuate the extreme ideologies because these are the wishes of the parents? This is a gift?
Bilnd obediance and indoctrination? Ridiculous.
If the OP doesn't wish to buy in to the story of religion... then he has the right to move forward into a lifestyle he is comfortable in without condemnation. He's 17 years old and from the sounds of things... religion has been hammered at him. From what I read, he's been very respectful and more than accomodated to this point in time. At what point is he free to make his own decisions?
They're his parents. They're supposed to make him do stuff they believe in.
Exactly this is what parents do instill values, educate, teach what they themselves believe in
and then children take what speaks to their hearts and go as adults.
I was not taught religion because my parents weren't.
I was an atheist till I was 40 so I did not give my children the knowledge of God.
It is upon them now to seek out what they believe and they are.
But still I did not give the joy I now have in my heart to them at a much earlier age.
I did not know God to give to them. It is a great gift to give.
So... the children born of Westboro Church goers must adopt their parents' values and perpetuate the extreme ideologies because these are the wishes of the parents? This is a gift?
Bilnd obediance and indoctrination? Ridiculous.
If the OP doesn't wish to buy in to the story of religion... then he has the right to move forward into a lifestyle he is comfortable in without condemnation. He's 17 years old and from the sounds of things... religion has been hammered at him. From what I read, he's been very respectful and more than accomodated to this point in time. At what point is he free to make his own decisions?
Exactly. The OP is more than at an age where one needs to question and seek for one's self (which, it would seem he is doing). Having controlling parents will mean he will have to 'comply' whilst he is living in their house. Whilst the role of the parent is to impart knowledge, values, etc., it is not to indoctrinate and stifle the child's mind, not giving an opportunity for this child to develop as his/her own being. Once this young man is independent (or semi if off to university, etc.), he will have the freedom he needs to fully develop as his own person. What works for the parents, may not work for the child. What the parents find joy and truth in, the child might find confinement and hypocrisy.
Whilst we are not believers in a religion, in her early teens, my daughter was interested in finding out about the various religions and what they were all about. Nothing hit a chord with her but she was inquisitive. Should she have 'found' herself in a belief, we would have fully supported her in that. I really can't understand how young and older adults can go through a large part of their lives without even looking at what is around... It's really more 'general knowledge' and curiosity, if nothing else.
Do some here think it is blind indoctrination to teach your children not to do drugs?
To do well in school, to respect people of all races?
I'm assuming that those so against teaching religion think teaching your children
all these other things are great and will help make a young responsible adult.
Just not God because why again .... would that have anything to do with not believing ?
If so great for you and your children, I didn't teach mine either, but not for others
who have God and religion to share.
Children remain under the guidance of their parents till they can provide for themselves.
If that means out of the home off to college I'm sure that child will decide whether
or not to attend in absence from their parents.
Like I said before hopefully a free heart will keep its warmth and
sensitivity towards the parents who gave them so much and attend church
occasionally out of loving respect for them, their family.
Also (and I'm sorry if this is out of line) but did anyone else think of that Simps episode where Homer skipped church on a snowy Sunday and made waffles wrapped around a stick of butter?
Ha, I didn’t even see that. We must be linked together on some level of unconsciousness. :geek:
Or maybe we just both watched a ton of The Simpsons back in the day.
Do some here think it is blind indoctrination to teach your children not to do drugs?
To do well in school, to respect people of all races?
I'm assuming that those so against teaching religion think teaching your children
all these other things are great and will help make a young responsible adult.
Just not God because why again .... would that have anything to do with not believing ?
If so great for you and your children, I didn't teach mine either, but not for others
who have God and religion to share.
Children remain under the guidance of their parents till they can provide for themselves.
If that means out of the home off to college I'm sure that child will decide whether
or not to attend in absence from their parents.
Like I said before hopefully a free heart will keep its warmth and
sensitivity towards the parents who gave them so much and attend church
occasionally out of loving respect for them, their family.
What kind of child are you?
my parents would never, and will never, EVER ask me as an adult to attend anything that goes against my beliefs. the kind of parent that would ask that of their child (as an adult) is, to be blunt, selfish and an asshole.
Gimli 1993
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
Do some here think it is blind indoctrination to teach your children not to do drugs?
To do well in school, to respect people of all races?
I'm assuming that those so against teaching religion think teaching your children
all these other things are great and will help make a young responsible adult.
just to be clear, the things you describe here belong to the term socialization, not indoctrination. you'd be wise to learn the difference.
Gimli 1993
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
asking someone to do something that they don't believe in is not love. it's control.
They're his parents. They're supposed to make him do stuff they believe in.
No they are supposed to listen to hi's choice and state their case but not make him go to church ....And you said it stuff they believe in not what he feels , believe me i have two kids a 19yrold son 16yr old daughter ...
I'm 17 yrs old. Every single Sunday I'm forced to go to church. Every single Sunday since I was born. I've been straight forward with my parents and told them that I want no part of it. I don't know whether or not I believe, but all I know is that I do not want to attend church regularly. They scold me and tell me I'm fucked up. They can't accept it. Its just getting old at this point. Endless arguing all the time has become redundant. I have no problem with religion or people who choose to lead a religious-based life. I just don't see that as something I want for myself. So has anyone ever had this experience before? Any suggestions on how to get my parents to respect my point of view?
You're going to have to endure it until you're free, and then RUN, RUN FAR AWAY! Good Luck.
Do some here think it is blind indoctrination to teach your children not to do drugs?
To do well in school, to respect people of all races?
I'm assuming that those so against teaching religion think teaching your children
all these other things are great and will help make a young responsible adult.
Just not God because why again .... would that have anything to do with not believing ?
If so great for you and your children, I didn't teach mine either, but not for others
who have God and religion to share.
Children remain under the guidance of their parents till they can provide for themselves.
If that means out of the home off to college I'm sure that child will decide whether
or not to attend in absence from their parents.
Like I said before hopefully a free heart will keep its warmth and
sensitivity towards the parents who gave them so much and attend church
occasionally out of loving respect for them, their family.
What kind of child are you?
Fuck it...this is my last ever post on the subject of religion on this most enjoyable and thought provoking forums around, as it now makes me far too angry to be objective
Blind indoctrination only survives in one area as far as I can see, in all forms of religion, bar none.
There is no God.
There are no Gods.
I hope the OP finds an escape without losing any love or respect from his parents.
I hope Hugh Freakin Dillons nephew found some answers at his Bible class.
Exactly Jason. You do what your parents do when you're a kid, then, hopefully, you are allowed to develop your own ideas, your critical thinking skills are developing, your mind is expanding. You get to know what is 'your thing' and parents should support the young person with that - either way (note I am speaking of religion/god stuff, not developing to be a killer or something!). Some come to that point earlier than others, some never seek. I guess some more controlling parents see that as a rejection of their values/lifestyle and have a hard time with it. Maybe they weren't given the opportunity of free thinking when they were younger? It usually isn't rebellion against anything at all, just another young person maturing within their own ideas whilst still accepting the parents' values - just not letting them control his/her way of thinking anymore. What is good for the goose is not always good for the gander.
Do some here think it is blind indoctrination to teach your children not to do drugs?
To do well in school, to respect people of all races?
I'm assuming that those so against teaching religion think teaching your children
all these other things are great and will help make a young responsible adult.
Just not God because why again .... would that have anything to do with not believing ?
If so great for you and your children, I didn't teach mine either, but not for others
who have God and religion to share.
Children remain under the guidance of their parents till they can provide for themselves.
If that means out of the home off to college I'm sure that child will decide whether
or not to attend in absence from their parents.
Like I said before hopefully a free heart will keep its warmth and
sensitivity towards the parents who gave them so much and attend church
occasionally out of loving respect for them, their family.
What kind of child are you?
Fuck it...this is my last ever post on the subject of religion on this most enjoyable and thought provoking forums around, as it now makes me far too angry to be objective
Blind indoctrination only survives in one area as far as I can see, in all forms of religion, bar none.
There is no God.
There are no Gods.
I hope the OP finds an escape without losing any love or respect from his parents.
I hope Hugh Freakin Dillons nephew found some answers at his Bible class.
Please enjoy the never ending debate... :fp:
fun part is you teach your children, I teach mine, someone else teaches theirs
there is no debate just respect for each other's beliefs and why can't people do that?
I think some who are very negative towards religion use the word indoctrination
which synonyms for this process are ...
educate, teach, instruct ... gee sounds like what parents do for children.
Of course if religion is something bad to you you'll make it negative.
Why is it the atheists must try to take away religion from others?
To dispel the choice.
This thread everyone agrees an adult makes the choice to follow a religion or not.
But atheists must add a parent should not teach their child their beliefs.
When I know, because I was an atheist til 40, I taught my children that.
I didn't purposely but it was my belief, there is no God.
Not so good for them but they are finding their way with the open-mindedness
I hoped for.
So let's just respect a parents right to guide their child till their child is no longer a child.
Let them choose to do what is right for their own family. Then let the child choose to do
what is right for themselves.
I was wondering are atheists afraid to attend church after they have dispelled God?
Afraid might be the wrong word.
I ask because of some not considering even being able to go to be with loved ones.
Why not go to church just to be with family, to make memories,
to be thankful, not to God, but to each other for each other?
Why so stringent and ungiving?
I was an atheist and went to be with my boyfriend because he loved me and wanted me there.
What's the big deal to cut off family? Whether you believe or not you believe in love and bonds.
Sounds like it might have to do with pride or something. I try to understand that but really can't.
I'm 17 yrs old. Every single Sunday I'm [b]forced to go to church. Every single Sunday since I was born. I've been straight forward with my parents and told them that I want no part of it. I don't know whether or not I believe, but all I know is that I do not want to attend church regularly. They scold me and tell me I'm fucked up. They can't accept it. Its just getting old at this point. Endless arguing all the time has become redundant. I have no problem with religion or people who choose to lead a religious-based life. I just don't see that as something I want for mysel. So has anyone ever had this experience before? Any suggestions on how to get my parents to respect my point of view?
I was thinking it might be a good time to remind ourselves of the original post before 'we' lose track of what this thread is about. I just highlighted the main points.
I think we all agreed that whilst the child is small and not yet capable of critical thinking, the parents will impart their values (whichever ones they may be), take them to church (or not), etc. Part of parenting as Jason said.
BUT... once this child grows up to be a young adult; one that thinks for himself/herself, one that questions; the parents are very much controlling and forcing their beliefs down the young person's throat if they do not allow him/her to mature following his/her own path. I say indoctrination - some may understand this word in a different way than others - is what the parents are doing. You MUST go to church, if not you're FUCKED! Now, is that a way to show guidance and love to your young adult? Good parenting for me would allow the young person to grow in his beliefs (or non) and allow him/her to seek. This young man does NOT want to go to church anymore - he has already been 'making memories' for 17 years. I'm guessing those type of memories will not be good ones.
Whilst we all seem to agree that the OP will probably have to respect his parents orders as long as he lives with them, the parents are certainly not respecting his views and desires.
We're not talking about parents not teaching their children about god if they wish to do so, we're not talking about cutting off family, etc. Drama... I think most are talking about freedom of choice, freedom of expression, freedom of being who you are.
Ha! ... no 17 year old but a saint would choose to get up on a Sunday morning
and go to church whether they believed or not. That's like saying give a 17 year old the choice
to go to school or sleep in :? The choice to go to college or sluff off.
Parents make children abide by house rules, what the family does until they are out on their own.
Of course some parents don't make kids do anything or give any consequence
and so we have lazy adults who haven't learned personal discipline. They say I don't want to...
of course you don't want to but you have to.
Many of my friends from back home, Catholic. When they hit choice time they didn't attend out
of laziness. Hung over, rather wash the car, lay around watch a movie, whatever.
But that didn't last long and when they had kids they were again going to church as a family.
Presto.Realized what was valuable in life. Cycle will repeat.
get a job & make your own money to pay your own phone bill & buy your own television & pay the cable guy his monthly charge or give up cable altogether.
not bad advice.....
although, and i don't know about his family or plans, but it could impact other things like college funding.
suck tho...i feel for you kid. i guess it could be a life lesson...that sometimes we just gotta do shit even if we don't wanna do shit. my advice...find a cute girl and an empty room.
pretty frickin solid square ass advise there mr. 81. always use a condom & treat the ladies with respect.
I'm 17 yrs old. Every single Sunday I'm forced to go to church. Every single Sunday since I was born. I've been straight forward with my parents and told them that I want no part of it. I don't know whether or not I believe, but all I know is that I do not want to attend church regularly. They scold me and tell me I'm fucked up. They can't accept it. Its just getting old at this point. Endless arguing all the time has become redundant. I have no problem with religion or people who choose to lead a religious-based life. I just don't see that as something I want for myself. So has anyone ever had this experience before? Any suggestions on how to get my parents to respect my point of view?
You're going to have to endure it until you're free, and then RUN, RUN FAR AWAY! Good Luck.
What I find quite sad for the OP is that his parents are not even open to discussion. Open (and loving?) enough to hear/see his point of view, to discuss it with him. He mentions his feelings/his desires, he gets yelled at and told he's fucked up. No respect, just power and control. He seems to want to reach to them, they don't seem interested.
What I find quite sad for the OP is that his parents are not even open to discussion. Open (and loving?) enough to hear/see his point of view, to discuss it with him. He mentions his feelings/his desires, he gets yelled at and told he's fucked up. No respect, just power and control. He seems to want to reach to them, they don't seem interested.
Do some here think it is blind indoctrination to teach your children not to do drugs?
To do well in school, to respect people of all races?
I'm assuming that those so against teaching religion think teaching your children
all these other things are great and will help make a young responsible adult.
Just not God because why again .... would that have anything to do with not believing ?
If so great for you and your children, I didn't teach mine either, but not for others
who have God and religion to share.
Children remain under the guidance of their parents till they can provide for themselves.
If that means out of the home off to college I'm sure that child will decide whether
or not to attend in absence from their parents.
Like I said before hopefully a free heart will keep its warmth and
sensitivity towards the parents who gave them so much and attend church
occasionally out of loving respect for them, their family.
What kind of child are you?
I found it hard to follow your line of thinking here.
I also wasn't too sure who you were addressing your post to. With this said... who is your last question intended for?
Do some here think it is blind indoctrination to teach your children not to do drugs?
To do well in school, to respect people of all races?
I'm assuming that those so against teaching religion think teaching your children
all these other things are great and will help make a young responsible adult.
Just not God because why again .... would that have anything to do with not believing ?
If so great for you and your children, I didn't teach mine either, but not for others
who have God and religion to share.
Children remain under the guidance of their parents till they can provide for themselves.
If that means out of the home off to college I'm sure that child will decide whether
or not to attend in absence from their parents.
Like I said before hopefully a free heart will keep its warmth and
sensitivity towards the parents who gave them so much and attend church
occasionally out of loving respect for them, their family.
What kind of child are you?
I found it hard to follow your line of thinking here.
I also wasn't too sure who you were addressing your post to. With this said... who is your last question intended for?
I think a few people addressed it already...
Last line really for everyone adult and child alike.
I hope everyone feels they are the kind of child to be proud of.
That every parent feels their child knows they did their best, what they felt was right,
though neither ever perfect.
I have found people really think they can do a better job raising other people's children...
well until they try
Know... you might wish to revisit your post and think about that for a few minutes (or hours).
Are you suggesting that lineage should dictate what type of person you must become? Never a chance to become your own person? Even if the stuff one's parents want their child to believe is hurtful to others or- for lack of a better term at the moment- dumb?
I stand by my statement and your response to it shows you don't really understand what I was saying.
I didn't say that the child HAS to grow up to be exactly what the parents want or try to dictate.
What I'm saying is that it's a parents job to PARENT them and make them do things that they value and try to raise them to the best of their ability.
The only people we should try to get even with...
...are those who've helped us.
Right 'round the corner could be bigger than ourselves.
Know... you might wish to revisit your post and think about that for a few minutes (or hours).
Are you suggesting that lineage should dictate what type of person you must become? Never a chance to become your own person? Even if the stuff one's parents want their child to believe is hurtful to others or- for lack of a better term at the moment- dumb?
I stand by my statement and your response to it shows you don't really understand what I was saying.
I didn't say that the child HAS to grow up to be exactly what the parents want or try to dictate.
What I'm saying is that it's a parents job to PARENT them and make them do things that they value and try to raise them to the best of their ability.
Oh I get what you were saying. You still haven't thought this one out.
The guy is 17 years old. He's learned how to cross the street. He's learned how to wipe his ass. He's nearing the age where he will be on his own making every decision for himself. He's also been exposed to a religion he doesn't wish to subscribe to.
The parenting job is less intensive as the child gets older- he's trying to become his own man. Insisting he continues with the suggested way to live is dictating the type of person he should become.
He reached out on the forum and asked for advice. He's gotten some pretty good advice, but to be honest... nobody can really give sure advice given we aren't there- and haven't been from day 1- to really have our fingers on the pulse of the situation. The advice I disagree with is to simply conform to please. Of course... I could be wrong.
I stand by my statement and your response to it shows you don't really understand what I was saying.
I didn't say that the child HAS to grow up to be exactly what the parents want or try to dictate.
What I'm saying is that it's a parents job to PARENT them and make them do things that they value and try to raise them to the best of their ability.
my job as a parent is to expose my daughters to as much as I can so they can make well rounded decisions based on their likes/dislikes/passions/etc. It is NOT my job to tell them they have to conform to something I value. I value music. I will expose them to that. I have. I will NEVER force them to do something they don't value themselves. I respect them as individuals to choose what they want to do.
Gimli 1993
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
Children are little us's ... it is so true. It is nature. That can be very good and very bad
as we can imagine but what happens is no one sees themselves as they truly are....
well until they see their adult children.
Be the best role model you can be that is how they learn. That is how you will be proud one day.
And hopefully worry a lot less.
The advice I disagree with is to simply conform to please. Of course... I could be wrong.
you are not wrong. it's a preposterous suggestion. any parent respectful of their grown child's beliefs and individuality would never ask that of them.
Gimli 1993
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
my job as a parent is to expose my daughters to as much as I can so they can make well rounded decisions based on their likes/dislikes/passions/etc. It is NOT my job to tell them they have to conform to something I value. I value music. I will expose them to that. I have. I will NEVER force them to do something they don't value themselves. I respect them as individuals to choose what they want to do.
+1
You impart your knowledge, share your passion, give them the tools to discover themselves and the world, guide them, give them advice when needed. There comes a time when they make their own decisions as to where their path takes them - then you are in a support role. This time comes earlier than thought, sometimes it's a gradual process, sometimes it can be a sudden 'flash'. Parents need to respect that and let go. My daughter is not a 'mini-me'. She is an individual in her own right and has been since the day she was born.
I stand by my statement and your response to it shows you don't really understand what I was saying.
I didn't say that the child HAS to grow up to be exactly what the parents want or try to dictate.
What I'm saying is that it's a parents job to PARENT them and make them do things that they value and try to raise them to the best of their ability.
my job as a parent is to expose my daughters to as much as I can so they can make well rounded decisions based on their likes/dislikes/passions/etc. It is NOT my job to tell them they have to conform to something I value. I value music. I will expose them to that. I have. I will NEVER force them to do something they don't value themselves. I respect them as individuals to choose what they want to do.
But that's YOUR opinion of how to raise children and doesn't mean it's the only way or the right way.
The only people we should try to get even with...
...are those who've helped us.
Right 'round the corner could be bigger than ourselves.
Comments
So... the children born of Westboro Church goers must adopt their parents' values and perpetuate the extreme ideologies because these are the wishes of the parents? This is a gift?
Bilnd obediance and indoctrination? Ridiculous.
If the OP doesn't wish to buy in to the story of religion... then he has the right to move forward into a lifestyle he is comfortable in without condemnation. He's 17 years old and from the sounds of things... religion has been hammered at him. From what I read, he's been very respectful and more than accomodated to this point in time. At what point is he free to make his own decisions?
Exactly. The OP is more than at an age where one needs to question and seek for one's self (which, it would seem he is doing). Having controlling parents will mean he will have to 'comply' whilst he is living in their house. Whilst the role of the parent is to impart knowledge, values, etc., it is not to indoctrinate and stifle the child's mind, not giving an opportunity for this child to develop as his/her own being. Once this young man is independent (or semi if off to university, etc.), he will have the freedom he needs to fully develop as his own person. What works for the parents, may not work for the child. What the parents find joy and truth in, the child might find confinement and hypocrisy.
Whilst we are not believers in a religion, in her early teens, my daughter was interested in finding out about the various religions and what they were all about. Nothing hit a chord with her but she was inquisitive. Should she have 'found' herself in a belief, we would have fully supported her in that. I really can't understand how young and older adults can go through a large part of their lives without even looking at what is around... It's really more 'general knowledge' and curiosity, if nothing else.
Hedonist and Jason...
Do some here think it is blind indoctrination to teach your children not to do drugs?
To do well in school, to respect people of all races?
I'm assuming that those so against teaching religion think teaching your children
all these other things are great and will help make a young responsible adult.
Just not God because why again .... would that have anything to do with not believing ?
If so great for you and your children, I didn't teach mine either, but not for others
who have God and religion to share.
Children remain under the guidance of their parents till they can provide for themselves.
If that means out of the home off to college I'm sure that child will decide whether
or not to attend in absence from their parents.
Like I said before hopefully a free heart will keep its warmth and
sensitivity towards the parents who gave them so much and attend church
occasionally out of loving respect for them, their family.
What kind of child are you?
Or maybe we just both watched a ton of The Simpsons back in the day.
my parents would never, and will never, EVER ask me as an adult to attend anything that goes against my beliefs. the kind of parent that would ask that of their child (as an adult) is, to be blunt, selfish and an asshole.
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
just to be clear, the things you describe here belong to the term socialization, not indoctrination. you'd be wise to learn the difference.
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
No they are supposed to listen to hi's choice and state their case but not make him go to church ....And you said it stuff they believe in not what he feels , believe me i have two kids a 19yrold son 16yr old daughter ...
You're going to have to endure it until you're free, and then RUN, RUN FAR AWAY! Good Luck.
Fuck it...this is my last ever post on the subject of religion on this most enjoyable and thought provoking forums around, as it now makes me far too angry to be objective
Blind indoctrination only survives in one area as far as I can see, in all forms of religion, bar none.
There is no God.
There are no Gods.
I hope the OP finds an escape without losing any love or respect from his parents.
I hope Hugh Freakin Dillons nephew found some answers at his Bible class.
Please enjoy the never ending debate... :fp:
I think when they are around 16 the child should have the right to choose not to go.
I think my sister stopped going when she was a senior in HS. I was an alter boy up through the end of HS. I think I've been back around 10 times.
there is no debate just respect for each other's beliefs and why can't people do that?
which synonyms for this process are ...
educate, teach, instruct ... gee sounds like what parents do for children.
Of course if religion is something bad to you you'll make it negative.
Why is it the atheists must try to take away religion from others?
To dispel the choice.
This thread everyone agrees an adult makes the choice to follow a religion or not.
But atheists must add a parent should not teach their child their beliefs.
When I know, because I was an atheist til 40, I taught my children that.
I didn't purposely but it was my belief, there is no God.
Not so good for them but they are finding their way with the open-mindedness
I hoped for.
So let's just respect a parents right to guide their child till their child is no longer a child.
Let them choose to do what is right for their own family. Then let the child choose to do
what is right for themselves.
I was wondering are atheists afraid to attend church after they have dispelled God?
Afraid might be the wrong word.
I ask because of some not considering even being able to go to be with loved ones.
Why not go to church just to be with family, to make memories,
to be thankful, not to God, but to each other for each other?
Why so stringent and ungiving?
I was an atheist and went to be with my boyfriend because he loved me and wanted me there.
What's the big deal to cut off family? Whether you believe or not you believe in love and bonds.
Sounds like it might have to do with pride or something. I try to understand that but really can't.
I was thinking it might be a good time to remind ourselves of the original post before 'we' lose track of what this thread is about. I just highlighted the main points.
I think we all agreed that whilst the child is small and not yet capable of critical thinking, the parents will impart their values (whichever ones they may be), take them to church (or not), etc. Part of parenting as Jason said.
BUT... once this child grows up to be a young adult; one that thinks for himself/herself, one that questions; the parents are very much controlling and forcing their beliefs down the young person's throat if they do not allow him/her to mature following his/her own path. I say indoctrination - some may understand this word in a different way than others - is what the parents are doing. You MUST go to church, if not you're FUCKED! Now, is that a way to show guidance and love to your young adult? Good parenting for me would allow the young person to grow in his beliefs (or non) and allow him/her to seek. This young man does NOT want to go to church anymore - he has already been 'making memories' for 17 years. I'm guessing those type of memories will not be good ones.
Whilst we all seem to agree that the OP will probably have to respect his parents orders as long as he lives with them, the parents are certainly not respecting his views and desires.
We're not talking about parents not teaching their children about god if they wish to do so, we're not talking about cutting off family, etc. Drama... I think most are talking about freedom of choice, freedom of expression, freedom of being who you are.
and go to church whether they believed or not. That's like saying give a 17 year old the choice
to go to school or sleep in :? The choice to go to college or sluff off.
Parents make children abide by house rules, what the family does until they are out on their own.
Of course some parents don't make kids do anything or give any consequence
and so we have lazy adults who haven't learned personal discipline. They say I don't want to...
of course you don't want to but you have to.
Many of my friends from back home, Catholic. When they hit choice time they didn't attend out
of laziness. Hung over, rather wash the car, lay around watch a movie, whatever.
But that didn't last long and when they had kids they were again going to church as a family.
Presto.Realized what was valuable in life. Cycle will repeat.
next.
"Hear me, my chiefs!
I am tired; my heart is
sick and sad. From where
the sun stands I will fight
no more forever."
Chief Joseph - Nez Perce
"Hear me, my chiefs!
I am tired; my heart is
sick and sad. From where
the sun stands I will fight
no more forever."
Chief Joseph - Nez Perce
And it's just about attending church regularly.
And he isn't even posting anymore.
I found it hard to follow your line of thinking here.
I also wasn't too sure who you were addressing your post to. With this said... who is your last question intended for?
Last line really for everyone adult and child alike.
I hope everyone feels they are the kind of child to be proud of.
That every parent feels their child knows they did their best, what they felt was right,
though neither ever perfect.
I have found people really think they can do a better job raising other people's children...
well until they try
I stand by my statement and your response to it shows you don't really understand what I was saying.
I didn't say that the child HAS to grow up to be exactly what the parents want or try to dictate.
What I'm saying is that it's a parents job to PARENT them and make them do things that they value and try to raise them to the best of their ability.
...are those who've helped us.
Right 'round the corner could be bigger than ourselves.
Oh I get what you were saying. You still haven't thought this one out.
The guy is 17 years old. He's learned how to cross the street. He's learned how to wipe his ass. He's nearing the age where he will be on his own making every decision for himself. He's also been exposed to a religion he doesn't wish to subscribe to.
The parenting job is less intensive as the child gets older- he's trying to become his own man. Insisting he continues with the suggested way to live is dictating the type of person he should become.
He reached out on the forum and asked for advice. He's gotten some pretty good advice, but to be honest... nobody can really give sure advice given we aren't there- and haven't been from day 1- to really have our fingers on the pulse of the situation. The advice I disagree with is to simply conform to please. Of course... I could be wrong.
my job as a parent is to expose my daughters to as much as I can so they can make well rounded decisions based on their likes/dislikes/passions/etc. It is NOT my job to tell them they have to conform to something I value. I value music. I will expose them to that. I have. I will NEVER force them to do something they don't value themselves. I respect them as individuals to choose what they want to do.
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
as we can imagine but what happens is no one sees themselves as they truly are....
well until they see their adult children.
Be the best role model you can be that is how they learn. That is how you will be proud one day.
And hopefully worry a lot less.
you are not wrong. it's a preposterous suggestion. any parent respectful of their grown child's beliefs and individuality would never ask that of them.
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
+1
You impart your knowledge, share your passion, give them the tools to discover themselves and the world, guide them, give them advice when needed. There comes a time when they make their own decisions as to where their path takes them - then you are in a support role. This time comes earlier than thought, sometimes it's a gradual process, sometimes it can be a sudden 'flash'. Parents need to respect that and let go. My daughter is not a 'mini-me'. She is an individual in her own right and has been since the day she was born.
But that's YOUR opinion of how to raise children and doesn't mean it's the only way or the right way.
...are those who've helped us.
Right 'round the corner could be bigger than ourselves.