[
yes, I couldn't care less what he believes as an adult. I don't fault him for anything for his beliefs. I don't fault anyone for their beliefs. I fault parents for indoctrination.
I didn't know you answered the question because it wasn't really an answer.
ah ha you didn't like it...
I said
it is a way of life. That would be why you would teach your children from young on.
Religion unites, bonds and teaches age appropriate lessons that the whole family can share.
I related watching my daughter at her age and the remarkable difference church has had and said
This would be true from small on. It would matter not what age your child is,
a parent would see the positive that church can provide.
People who don't like religion or church call it indoctrination or forcing religion.
Many many need and love it and enjoy the family bonding time church and shared beliefs bring.
Thats' my answer...
yeah, I saw that, and it's not that I don't like it. it just doesn't answer the question. your daughter found her faith at a much older age, when she was able to make that choice on her own, away from any other sources of impression. I see nothing wrong with that. that's her choice, and she's free to make it and I respect that.
I never said I don't like religion or don't like church. I think it would be naive to paint it all with one brush. Keep it to what this thread is about: forced religion. it's wrong and it shouldn't be done.
but how do we know it's forced... for the OP yes but what about the countless other
young people who find it awesome? Are you saying no children should be allowed to go to church?
Or just that it is up to the parents?
To touch on discipline... doing something you don't want to do because you have to.
Teaching children there are things they must do. This is all about good parenting.
As far as my daughter I think she might have wished she had grown up in church because
it makes her think, learn, feel, believe in other people. It is good, very good.
She missed out on this until she is 27.How much more awesome might she have been?
Good parenting is not about yelling at your son and telling him he's fucked because, as a young adult, he found the beliefs of his parents are not his anymore. Something very personal that a parent should respect and not insult him for it.
Thus the importance of the role of the parents in giving the children all the tools and exposure necessary to find their path as they are growing up. And respecting that path.
but how do we know it's forced... for the OP yes but what about the countless other
young people who find it awesome? Are you saying no children should be allowed to go to church?
Or just that it is up to the parents?
To touch on discipline... doing something you don't want to do because you have to.
Teaching children there are things they must do. This is all about good parenting.
As far as my daughter I think she might have wished she had grown up in church because
it makes her think, learn, feel, believe in other people. It is good, very good.
She missed out on this until she is 27.How much more awesome might she have been?
I'm talking about situations like the OP's.......people who are teenagers, starting to think for themselves and question the world that is around them. If you don't let them express themselves, then you are hurting them and yourselves and their future selves. it's irresponsible.
I enjoyed sunday school. But when I got too old for that (12) and my parents saw how I was at church during the sermons, and since I was then old enough to be at home alone, they realized they should leave it up to me. what's the point if I get nothing out of it? I'm not saying leave it up to a 4 year old. My kids (6 and 3) love it when my wife takes them to children's mass once a month. and there's a pancake breakfast after. they love it. I'm not going to take that away from them. I'm just not going to join in. I don't believe in god, I'm not going to go spend time with people who worship him and listen to what I consider nonsense for an hour. I'm with my kids the other 167 hours of the week, I think they can do without me for that 1. I'd never say to anyone, child, parent, spouse, ANYONE, "come with me to church, so we can be together". We can be together at home too, or in the park, some place we both enjoy. Asking someone to go somewhere they don't like or don't believe in is SELFISH.
Gimli 1993
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
As far as my daughter I think she might have wished she had grown up in church because
it makes her think, learn, feel, believe in other people. It is good, very good.
She missed out on this until she is 27.How much more awesome might she have been?
I don't know, maybe just accept her for how awesome she is, not how awesome she could have been.
I see what you mean about tolerance, and I agree. But how can you tolerate people who preach hate messages? you're ok with that?
My point is that religion/spirituality should be a journey of the individual that one finds on their own through experience and searching. not "sit here and listen". Christianity is not my way. And it shouldn't have been pushed on me, and it wasn't. I was given the option, rightfully so. I think the way my parents handled it was top notch. and I have found my own way now.
it's interesting that people think someone who is legally allowed to choose who to have sex with and drive a car on their own still think it's ok to force them how to think on Sundays.
Gimli 1993
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
get a job & make your own money to pay your own phone bill & buy your own television & pay the cable guy his monthly charge or give up cable altogether.
not bad advice.....
although, and i don't know about his family or plans, but it could impact other things like college funding.
suck tho...i feel for you kid. i guess it could be a life lesson...that sometimes we just gotta do shit even if we don't wanna do shit. my advice...find a cute girl and an empty room.
Good parenting is not about yelling at your son and telling him he's fucked because, as a young adult, he found the beliefs of his parents are not his anymore. Something very personal that a parent should respect and not insult him for it.
Thus the importance of the role of the parents in giving the children all the tools and exposure necessary to find their path as they are growing up. And respecting that path.
You are taking this from one side...
My experience tells me something very different.
I have cared for and guided many a teen into their 20's, you must read between the lines.
Everything said about their parent was not quite right on.
They left their parents home and came to ours because of
communication breakdowns in a couple of the cases. They did not have bad parents.
It is not cut and dried the parents fault when you are dealing
with a 17 year old wishing they were an adult. They hear their parents in a different way.
And rebel against their way whatever way that is.
Many teens do not want to do what they are supposed to do. What they are told.
But that is good parenting. To be the tough guy sometimes.
Now approaching 30 these young people realize what their parents were trying to do for them.
I hope this young adult after time away, as in college or out on their own, or choosing to
live with another family, will return with a more accurate opinion of the loving parents
they have known.Those who sacrificed, taught values and morals, was there conceiving,
raising, loving them their lifetime.
You may hope for something different.
Our biggest difference in opinion here is you think a 17 year old living under their parents roof
should be allowed to go against family values. I do not.
When they are out on their own of course they will follow their own path...
who here is saying otherwise?
You also for some reason disregard these parents and seem to demonize them,
making them solely the bad guys. Why I asked about your personal experience.
Mine tells me they are good parents at a bad time in the teen years. That happens.
As far as my daughter I think she might have wished she had grown up in church because
it makes her think, learn, feel, believe in other people. It is good, very good.
She missed out on this until she is 27.How much more awesome might she have been?
I don't know, maybe just accept her for how awesome she is, not how awesome she could have been.
I see what you mean about tolerance, and I agree. But how can you tolerate people who preach hate messages? you're ok with that?
My point is that religion/spirituality should be a journey of the individual that one finds on their own through experience and searching. not "sit here and listen". Christianity is not my way. And it shouldn't have been pushed on me, and it wasn't. I was given the option, rightfully so. I think the way my parents handled it was top notch. and I have found my own way now.
it's interesting that people think someone who is legally allowed to choose who to have sex with and drive a car on their own still think it's ok to force them how to think on Sundays.
The point I was making was about her happiness.
The changes I have seen not awesomeness as far as person but a life.
For me you can't pick and choose tolerance ... it is a way of life. Either tolerate everyone,
try to understand, and give love and acceptance or risk being the bigot you are pointing out.
The moment you yourself are not tolerating, which I never liked that word,
it implies someone or something is wrong, you are judging.
It all comes down to motives, what is in the heart. Like your brother. He is very religious.
His religion guides him. His religion tells him homosexuality is not evil, it is not the
devils work, it is a disease. Do we agree? no. But I do not think his motive is hate.
And I think your despise for religion is getting in the way of your relationship.
I think for religious families, which yours is not, your father was not, there is a divided message.
For many families where there is not division, like the OP, it is within the parameters of raising
and teaching your child to include religion in a family who believes.
In our lives 18 years is nothing. A child can go to church, learn, practice religion
along side their parents then choose when they are on their own if it is meaningful in their lives.
I guess you're right again Pandora.... I know nothing about teens and cannot 'read' them.... :roll:
But you do... so let's leave it at that.
"You may hope for something different." ??? :?
I believe in a two-way communication with children. You may believe in 'imposition'. Your perogative.
Going around in circles again... might as well stop now... getting dizzy..
dizzy ... is this when your opinion is challenged :?
You can believe in two way communication as we all do of course.
This is what we hope for as adults. But again that implies a teen wants to listen and communicate.
Not always the case, sometimes they only hear it like they want to hear it.
She missed out on this until she is 27.How much more awesome might she have been?
Wow, really? How much MORE awesome might have she been? I don't think there's an emoticon for the face I just made.....I'm gonna keep my comment to that and bite my lip.
dizzy ... is this when your opinion is challenged :?
My opinion has been challenged many times and it makes interesting and constructive debate (and I have had many in this forum)
As another poster described 'passive aggressive nonsensical comments' do not constitute a challenge and invite debate.
Again.. full circle achieved.
I would describe a parent who is spineless to be passive agressive
Definition of PASSIVE-AGGRESSIVE
: being, marked by, or displaying behavior characterized by the expression of negative feelings, resentment, and aggression in an unassertive passive way (as through procrastination and stubbornness)
She missed out on this until she is 27.How much more awesome might she have been?
Wow, really? How much MORE awesome might have she been? I don't think there's an emoticon for the face I just made.....I'm gonna keep my comment to that and bite my lip.
As I explained I meant her life as in happiness...
but people who do not believe seem to not want to hear about the happiness of others.
The positivity that a person finds with religion /God.
I mean the positive changes in my daughters path have been more than awesome.
I really don't understand the negativity even here on how you would take another person who has
found happiness. Why?
[quote="pandora"
As far as my daughter I think she might have wished she had grown up in church because
it makes her think, learn, feel, believe in other people. It is good, very good.
She missed out on this until she is 27.How much more awesome might she have been?[/quote]
[quote="pandora"
As far as my daughter I think she might have wished she had grown up in church because
it makes her think, learn, feel, believe in other people. It is good, very good.
She missed out on this until she is 27.How much more awesome might she have been?
Wow.
maybe read my explanation three times over or maybe just go uninformed on the matter
[quote="pandora"
As far as my daughter I think she might have wished she had grown up in church because
it makes her think, learn, feel, believe in other people. It is good, very good.
She missed out on this until she is 27.How much more awesome might she have been?
Wow.
maybe read my explanation three times over or maybe just go uninformed on the matter
Oh, I've read your explanation- if that's what you are calling it. I'd never even mistakenly utter something like that about either of my children.
maybe read my explanation three times over or maybe just go uninformed on the matter
Oh, I've read your explanation- if that's what you are calling it. I'd never even mistakenly utter something like that about either of my children.
calling what? I guess if you won't except explanations that would be on you
Her newly discovered happiness within the church is making a markedly awesome effect on her,
her happiness and her life.
I'm sure that would be awesome for you to see changes like that in your children,
well unless you would not celebrate this with them. Are your children awesome in your eyes?
Will they grow more awesome throughout life? I'm sure so.
calling what? I guess if you won't except explanations that would be on you
Her newly discovered happiness within the church is making a markedly awesome effect on her,
her happiness and her life.
I'm sure that would be awesome for you to see changes like that in your children,
well unless you would not celebrate this with them. Are your children awesome in your eyes?
Will they grow more awesome throughout life? I'm sure so.
Easy concept.
Own your words, maam.
My kids won't grow more awesome in life. They will change; but for the better or for the worse... my estimation for their level of awesomeness will not deter in the slightest for me: they are at the pinnacle of awesomeness and have been there since birth.
calling what? I guess if you won't except explanations that would be on you
Her newly discovered happiness within the church is making a markedly awesome effect on her,
her happiness and her life.
I'm sure that would be awesome for you to see changes like that in your children,
well unless you would not celebrate this with them. Are your children awesome in your eyes?
Will they grow more awesome throughout life? I'm sure so.
Easy concept.
Own your words, maam.
My kids won't grow more awesome in life. They will change; but for the better or for the worse... my estimation for their level of awesomeness will not deter in the slightest for me: they are at the pinnacle of awesomeness and have been there since birth.
Yes that is the proud that parents know... me too
I remember when I was not always so awesome in fact I was not even doing fine.
I know my Mama saw that as well. I know she celebrated with me in my triumphs.
Everyone goes through this at different points in life.
Being with anyone who is and seeing them emerge better is awesome in itself!
Awesomer... more awesome It is a celebration! But one must be honest and admit
first where they were. Some people are not honest about that because they think it shows
weakness when actually it is the opposite. They put on a perfect so the world won't see.
How can one become more awesome if they do that ?... I ask you...
Pandora, I think you need to take that "positive" mask your wearing off. You're coming off as being fake and plastic. Unless that's really who you are.....
Pandora, I think you need to take that "positive" mask your wearing off. You're coming off as being fake and plastic. Unless that's really who you are.....
Actually it is a rebirth from the depths of hell badbrains try it you might like it
No kidding aside...
once a person really tries seeing things positively it feels good.
People in your life follow your lead and it is inspiring.
Do I get down of course, do we have troubles of course.
Why focus on what's negative? That is common sense it is counter productive.
The way to make your life happy is to focus on happiness and the happiness of others.
Pandora, I think you need to take that "positive" mask your wearing off. You're coming off as being fake and plastic. Unless that's really who you are.....
Actually it is a rebirth from the depths of hell badbrains try it you might like it
No kidding aside...
once a person really tries seeing things positively it feels good.
People in your life follow your lead and it is inspiring.
Do I get down of course, do we have troubles of course.
Why focus on what's negative? That is common sense it is counter productive.
The way to make your life happy is to focus on happiness and the happiness of others.
And now you're a shrink :fp: Go walk in an Iraqis shoes, see the world through an Iraqis moms eyes. Or better yet, just watch from the safety of your tv. You dnt want your positive outlook on life to be fucked. :thumbup:
It all comes down to motives, what is in the heart. Like your brother. He is very religious.
His religion guides him. His religion tells him homosexuality is not evil, it is not the
devils work, it is a disease. Do we agree? no. But I do not think his motive is hate.
And I think your despise for religion is getting in the way of your relationship.
I think for religious families, which yours is not, your father was not, there is a divided message.
For many families where there is not division, like the OP, it is within the parameters of raising
and teaching your child to include religion in a family who believes.
In our lives 18 years is nothing. A child can go to church, learn, practice religion
along side their parents then choose when they are on their own if it is meaningful in their lives.
do you even understand the meaning of the word "bigot"? look it up. I'm not a bigot for calling someone a bigot. a bigot is someone who prejudices someone based on race, gender, sexual orientation, religious beleifs, etc. I don't think he's a bigot because of his religion. I think he's a bigot for judging others based on their sexual orientation.
it doesn't matter what his motives are. he judges based on sexual orientation. end of story. and you prove time and time again you aren't reading or comprehending what you are reading. I came from a religious family. My dad became agnostic over the past several years, but we all went to church when I was little and they both continued going to church as a couple long after I stopped. we had bible readings every wednesday night at home, etc. there was no division.
and I stated quite clearly that I don't have anything against religion. either read my post and understand it or don't comment on it.
Gimli 1993
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
I would describe a parent who is spineless to be passive agressive
Definition of PASSIVE-AGGRESSIVE
: being, marked by, or displaying behavior characterized by the expression of negative feelings, resentment, and aggression in an unassertive passive way (as through procrastination and stubbornness)
yep I'm one negative beotch
it doesn't have to be negative. that's just the one definition you chose to post.
Passive-aggressive behavior is a category of interpersonal interactions characterised by an obstructionist or hostile manner that indicates aggression, or, in more general terms, expressing aggression in non-assertive, subtle (that is, passive or indirect) ways.
Gimli 1993
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
0
81
Needing a ride to Forest Hills and a ounce of weed. Please inquire within. Thanks. Or not. Posts: 58,276
Comments
Wrong assumption again
young people who find it awesome? Are you saying no children should be allowed to go to church?
Or just that it is up to the parents?
To touch on discipline... doing something you don't want to do because you have to.
Teaching children there are things they must do. This is all about good parenting.
As far as my daughter I think she might have wished she had grown up in church because
it makes her think, learn, feel, believe in other people. It is good, very good.
She missed out on this until she is 27.How much more awesome might she have been?
he just wants to skip church maybe not lunch
Someone's making assumptions of someone who left a long time ago.
Thus the importance of the role of the parents in giving the children all the tools and exposure necessary to find their path as they are growing up. And respecting that path.
What does this have to do with the assumptions you made about the intention of my post ? You're getting muddled with all your assumptions!
I'm talking about situations like the OP's.......people who are teenagers, starting to think for themselves and question the world that is around them. If you don't let them express themselves, then you are hurting them and yourselves and their future selves. it's irresponsible.
I enjoyed sunday school. But when I got too old for that (12) and my parents saw how I was at church during the sermons, and since I was then old enough to be at home alone, they realized they should leave it up to me. what's the point if I get nothing out of it? I'm not saying leave it up to a 4 year old. My kids (6 and 3) love it when my wife takes them to children's mass once a month. and there's a pancake breakfast after. they love it. I'm not going to take that away from them. I'm just not going to join in. I don't believe in god, I'm not going to go spend time with people who worship him and listen to what I consider nonsense for an hour. I'm with my kids the other 167 hours of the week, I think they can do without me for that 1. I'd never say to anyone, child, parent, spouse, ANYONE, "come with me to church, so we can be together". We can be together at home too, or in the park, some place we both enjoy. Asking someone to go somewhere they don't like or don't believe in is SELFISH.
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
I don't know, maybe just accept her for how awesome she is, not how awesome she could have been.
I see what you mean about tolerance, and I agree. But how can you tolerate people who preach hate messages? you're ok with that?
My point is that religion/spirituality should be a journey of the individual that one finds on their own through experience and searching. not "sit here and listen". Christianity is not my way. And it shouldn't have been pushed on me, and it wasn't. I was given the option, rightfully so. I think the way my parents handled it was top notch. and I have found my own way now.
it's interesting that people think someone who is legally allowed to choose who to have sex with and drive a car on their own still think it's ok to force them how to think on Sundays.
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
And get some condoms! :thumbup:
My experience tells me something very different.
I have cared for and guided many a teen into their 20's, you must read between the lines.
Everything said about their parent was not quite right on.
They left their parents home and came to ours because of
communication breakdowns in a couple of the cases. They did not have bad parents.
It is not cut and dried the parents fault when you are dealing
with a 17 year old wishing they were an adult. They hear their parents in a different way.
And rebel against their way whatever way that is.
Many teens do not want to do what they are supposed to do. What they are told.
But that is good parenting. To be the tough guy sometimes.
Now approaching 30 these young people realize what their parents were trying to do for them.
I hope this young adult after time away, as in college or out on their own, or choosing to
live with another family, will return with a more accurate opinion of the loving parents
they have known.Those who sacrificed, taught values and morals, was there conceiving,
raising, loving them their lifetime.
You may hope for something different.
Our biggest difference in opinion here is you think a 17 year old living under their parents roof
should be allowed to go against family values. I do not.
When they are out on their own of course they will follow their own path...
who here is saying otherwise?
You also for some reason disregard these parents and seem to demonize them,
making them solely the bad guys. Why I asked about your personal experience.
Mine tells me they are good parents at a bad time in the teen years. That happens.
But you do... so let's leave it at that.
"You may hope for something different." ??? :?
I believe in a two-way communication with children whilst still being the parent. You may believe in 'imposition'. Your perogative.
Going around in circles again... might as well stop now... getting dizzy..
The changes I have seen not awesomeness as far as person but a life.
For me you can't pick and choose tolerance ... it is a way of life. Either tolerate everyone,
try to understand, and give love and acceptance or risk being the bigot you are pointing out.
The moment you yourself are not tolerating, which I never liked that word,
it implies someone or something is wrong, you are judging.
It all comes down to motives, what is in the heart. Like your brother. He is very religious.
His religion guides him. His religion tells him homosexuality is not evil, it is not the
devils work, it is a disease. Do we agree? no. But I do not think his motive is hate.
And I think your despise for religion is getting in the way of your relationship.
I think for religious families, which yours is not, your father was not, there is a divided message.
For many families where there is not division, like the OP, it is within the parameters of raising
and teaching your child to include religion in a family who believes.
In our lives 18 years is nothing. A child can go to church, learn, practice religion
along side their parents then choose when they are on their own if it is meaningful in their lives.
You can believe in two way communication as we all do of course.
This is what we hope for as adults. But again that implies a teen wants to listen and communicate.
Not always the case, sometimes they only hear it like they want to hear it.
Wow, really? How much MORE awesome might have she been? I don't think there's an emoticon for the face I just made.....I'm gonna keep my comment to that and bite my lip.
My opinion has been challenged many times and it makes interesting and constructive debate (and I have had many in this forum)
As another poster described 'passive aggressive nonsensical comments' do not constitute a challenge and invite debate.
Again.. full circle achieved.
Definition of PASSIVE-AGGRESSIVE
: being, marked by, or displaying behavior characterized by the expression of negative feelings, resentment, and aggression in an unassertive passive way (as through procrastination and stubbornness)
yep I'm one negative beotch
but people who do not believe seem to not want to hear about the happiness of others.
The positivity that a person finds with religion /God.
I mean the positive changes in my daughters path have been more than awesome.
I really don't understand the negativity even here on how you would take another person who has
found happiness. Why?
As far as my daughter I think she might have wished she had grown up in church because
it makes her think, learn, feel, believe in other people. It is good, very good.
She missed out on this until she is 27.How much more awesome might she have been?[/quote]
Wow.
Oh, I've read your explanation- if that's what you are calling it. I'd never even mistakenly utter something like that about either of my children.
Her newly discovered happiness within the church is making a markedly awesome effect on her,
her happiness and her life.
I'm sure that would be awesome for you to see changes like that in your children,
well unless you would not celebrate this with them. Are your children awesome in your eyes?
Will they grow more awesome throughout life? I'm sure so.
Easy concept.
Own your words, maam.
My kids won't grow more awesome in life. They will change; but for the better or for the worse... my estimation for their level of awesomeness will not deter in the slightest for me: they are at the pinnacle of awesomeness and have been there since birth.
I remember when I was not always so awesome in fact I was not even doing fine.
I know my Mama saw that as well. I know she celebrated with me in my triumphs.
Everyone goes through this at different points in life.
Being with anyone who is and seeing them emerge better is awesome in itself!
Awesomer... more awesome
first where they were. Some people are not honest about that because they think it shows
weakness when actually it is the opposite. They put on a perfect so the world won't see.
How can one become more awesome if they do that ?... I ask you...
No kidding aside...
once a person really tries seeing things positively it feels good.
People in your life follow your lead and it is inspiring.
Do I get down of course, do we have troubles of course.
Why focus on what's negative? That is common sense it is counter productive.
The way to make your life happy is to focus on happiness and the happiness of others.
And now you're a shrink :fp: Go walk in an Iraqis shoes, see the world through an Iraqis moms eyes. Or better yet, just watch from the safety of your tv. You dnt want your positive outlook on life to be fucked. :thumbup:
do you even understand the meaning of the word "bigot"? look it up. I'm not a bigot for calling someone a bigot. a bigot is someone who prejudices someone based on race, gender, sexual orientation, religious beleifs, etc. I don't think he's a bigot because of his religion. I think he's a bigot for judging others based on their sexual orientation.
it doesn't matter what his motives are. he judges based on sexual orientation. end of story. and you prove time and time again you aren't reading or comprehending what you are reading. I came from a religious family. My dad became agnostic over the past several years, but we all went to church when I was little and they both continued going to church as a couple long after I stopped. we had bible readings every wednesday night at home, etc. there was no division.
and I stated quite clearly that I don't have anything against religion. either read my post and understand it or don't comment on it.
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
it doesn't have to be negative. that's just the one definition you chose to post.
Passive-aggressive behavior is a category of interpersonal interactions characterised by an obstructionist or hostile manner that indicates aggression, or, in more general terms, expressing aggression in non-assertive, subtle (that is, passive or indirect) ways.
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014