Why own a gun?

dignin

pandora wrote:

comebackgirl wrote:

I feel you and your sensitivity

I'm not even sure why mental illness has become the focus when I've yet to hear if the shooter had a mental illness. So far I've heard he may have had Asperger's, which is a neurodevelopmental disorder and wouldn't explain this violence. We do know that he used a gun though, so maybe we should start with what we know for sure, rather than what is simply speculation

Wow head in sand syndrome. Says a lot about our mental health care
in our country.Losing....
That is exactly the point... all the warning signs and no metal health diagnosis or treatment.
Good going America!

This disease coupled with focus, obsession with guns and hours of gun play daily in a bunker type room
along with withdrawal from human contact, human bonds and being ostrichsized in his town
might have played a little role in why he did what he did. Maybe just maybe :fp:
that is sarcasm. And we know from his brother and father he had other issues.

A blow out at the school the day before set if off. The kid was on the brink
but I wonder if anyone even noticed, let alone cared. When will they?

When will mental health professionals make the demands needed to provide care to people,
ball in their court.
.

You are pushing an agenda based on no evidence and all speculation, you must see that.

pandora

blackredyellow wrote:

pandora wrote:

As far as gun regulations I am in favor of changes by state amendments and the people's choice
in each perspective state. By vote, by the people. Not by Federal bans.

Here is the problem with state laws... people travel all of the time across state lines. If I live in NY with strict gun laws, then I can just drive a half hour into PA, and buy whatever arsenal I want and shoot up a school in NY.

It needs to be federally enforced to have any effectiveness whatsoever.

And quit using the word "ban". The vast majority of people just want stronger background checks and training involved, and some sort of restrictions on types of guns (semi auto rifles, large capacity magazines, etc).

Yes I know about the difference in state laws, accepting permits between states etc.
People find a way don't they? I'm against Federal bans.
No, we will have to agree to disagree on what gunbanners want.
When I see the word ban in a Federal bill I know what they want its pretty clear.

comebackgirl

pandora wrote:

comebackgirl wrote:

I feel you and your sensitivity

I'm not even sure why mental illness has become the focus when I've yet to hear if the shooter had a mental illness. So far I've heard he may have had Asperger's, which is a neurodevelopmental disorder and wouldn't explain this violence. We do know that he used a gun though, so maybe we should start with what we know for sure, rather than what is simply speculation

Wow head in sand syndrome. Says a lot about our mental health care
in our country.Losing....
That is exactly the point... all the warning signs and no metal health diagnosis or treatment.
Good going America!

This disease coupled with focus, obsession with guns and hours of gun play daily in a bunker type room
along with withdrawal from human contact, human bonds and being ostrichsized in his town
might have played a little role in why he did what he did. Maybe just maybe :fp:
that is sarcasm. And we know from his brother and father he had other issues.

A blow out at the school the day before set if off. The kid was on the brink
but I wonder if anyone even noticed, let alone cared. When will they?

When will mental health professionals make the demands needed to provide care to people,
ball in their court.
.

I'll ignore the personal insult. This time.

What other diagnosis and treatment should he have had Pandora? It certainly seems like the family had the financial means to seek an assessment and get treatment. Not every killer is mentally ill. Shocking I know. It's also been reported that he may have had a personality disorder, which would make a lot of sense with regard to this kind of violence, but that hasn't been confirmed. People with personality disorders blame others for their problems and always feel victimized. They often seek revenge. This is their way of relating,but there is no pill that will cure it. The hyper focus on games and social isolation is often a part of autism spectrum disorders and not necessarily a cause for concern. Some people focus on games, others its sharks or history, etc. it's part of the neurological functioning. It's very possible the shooter had a personality disorder or another diagnosis in addition to the Asperger's, but this hasn't been confirmed You seem to have more information than I do about his symptoms. We do know he used guns though and we know how he got them

pandora

dignin wrote:

pandora wrote:

comebackgirl wrote:

I feel you and your sensitivity

I'm not even sure why mental illness has become the focus when I've yet to hear if the shooter had a mental illness. So far I've heard he may have had Asperger's, which is a neurodevelopmental disorder and wouldn't explain this violence. We do know that he used a gun though, so maybe we should start with what we know for sure, rather than what is simply speculation

Wow head in sand syndrome. Says a lot about our mental health care
in our country.Losing....
That is exactly the point... all the warning signs and no metal health diagnosis or treatment.
Good going America!

This disease coupled with focus, obsession with guns and hours of gun play daily in a bunker type room
along with withdrawal from human contact, human bonds and being ostrichsized in his town
might have played a little role in why he did what he did. Maybe just maybe :fp:
that is sarcasm. And we know from his brother and father he had other issues.

A blow out at the school the day before set if off. The kid was on the brink
but I wonder if anyone even noticed, let alone cared. When will they?

When will mental health professionals make the demands needed to provide care to people,
ball in their court.
.

You are pushing an agenda based on no evidence and all speculation, you must see that.

You think this young man was not mentally ill after all the reports? After a look into his life
and what others have said... or is it... it would not matter to you if he was.

JK_Livin

http://amanpour.blogs.cnn.com/2012/12/1 ... -in-japan/

Thirty Bills Unpaid

pandora wrote:

blackredyellow wrote:

pandora wrote:

As far as gun regulations I am in favor of changes by state amendments and the people's choice
in each perspective state. By vote, by the people. Not by Federal bans.

Here is the problem with state laws... people travel all of the time across state lines. If I live in NY with strict gun laws, then I can just drive a half hour into PA, and buy whatever arsenal I want and shoot up a school in NY.

It needs to be federally enforced to have any effectiveness whatsoever.

And quit using the word "ban". The vast majority of people just want stronger background checks and training involved, and some sort of restrictions on types of guns (semi auto rifles, large capacity magazines, etc).

Yes I know about the difference in state laws, accepting permits between states etc.
People find a way don't they? I'm against Federal bans.
No, we will have to agree to disagree on what gunbanners want.
When I see the word ban in a Federal bill I know what they want its pretty clear.

Oh good. So we are clear on what the intent of the word 'ban' might mean: safer classrooms, malls, and movie theaters.

You're coming around finally! Well done.

And just remember... even if all those really awesome guns do become banned... you can still have shotguns and rifles! A shotgun would be a great home invasion deterrent... dontcha think? Everybody wins! Yay.

riotgrl

JonnyPistachio wrote:

Zoso wrote:

mental illness needs to be addressed but their is no link on a world scale to mental illness and mass shootings or violence for that matter..... mental illness is a problem everywhere but mental illness/mass shootings isn't a factor anywhere else but America. So there is no link. the only difference in America to everywhere else is the access and amount of guns... that is it. I have said this 10 times. it's simple.

people all over the world suffer from mental illness but AREN'T SHOOTING UP SCHOOLS.... next distraction....

Good point. its our culture too...and the availability of guns. It really makes one wonder if its not just too late to do anything. :(

Not sure if this article was posted elsewhere so I apologize if it has.

http://www.courier-journal.com/comments/usatodayarticle/1776191

Interesting point about the root cause of gun violence in our country although other nations have high gun ownerhsip as well. A change in culture is definitely in order. Rather than focusing on the individual perhaps we should focus on increasing our collective mentality. That means a focus on community and fostering empathy for those within our community. Schools are on the right track in regards to demanding volunteer hours for their students but where some of these initiatives fail is that the focus is still on the individual. Usually students undertake these effortts in a quest to gain college admittance or schoarlships.

Thirty Bills Unpaid

JK_Livin wrote:

http://amanpour.blogs.cnn.com/2012/12/18/getting-a-gun-in-japan/

Debate over.

Zoso

JK_Livin wrote:

http://amanpour.blogs.cnn.com/2012/12/18/getting-a-gun-in-japan/

this should be the way it is in America also.... anyone care to tell me when the last shot was fired to kill someone in Japan? this should be the case worldwide but it won't ever happen in America. it's a sick culture.

redrock

comebackgirl wrote:

So according to the articles investigators didn't find any psychotropic meds and don't know if he had ever received a diagnosis for a mental illness. So far what I've read hasn't pointed to an illness that can be treated, but more to socialization and environmental issues.

As said before CBG.. all speculation.

People having their 15 minutes of fame by giving 'insight' to the reporters. From the plumber and the gardener, the family member who has not seen the family for years, the school friend (who didn't really know him but just saw him in the corridors) to the 'undisclosed source, the 'insider source' and the plain anonymous source. All wanting a piece of the action.

I've read reports where it was said the killer was anywhere from an OK but odd person to a complete psycho. I've read reports from a babysitter who was told not to turn her back on him - one would automatically think because he would be up to no good but no, a couple of lines will say it's because he had a physical impairment which meant he could not feel pain and therefore could get hurt very easily. I've read reports his mother was devoted to him and not the nutter some would like to portray her as. I've read that he was certainly well looked after.

One thing most seem to agree on is that he had some form of Asperger's. Reports associate his Asperger's to being a psycho to murdering children.

An insult to those suffering of Asperger Syndrome.

We just don't know. And we probably never will.

Oh... and stop feeling Zoso's sensitivity in public.

Zoso

redrock wrote:

comebackgirl wrote:

So according to the articles investigators didn't find any psychotropic meds and don't know if he had ever received a diagnosis for a mental illness. So far what I've read hasn't pointed to an illness that can be treated, but more to socialization and environmental issues.

As said before CBG.. all speculation.

People having their 15 minutes of fame by giving 'insight' to the reporters. From the plumber and the gardener, the family member who has not seen the family for years, the school friend (who didn't really know him but just saw him in the corridors) to the 'undisclosed source, the 'insider source' and the plain anonymous source. All wanting a piece of the action.

I've read reports where it was said the killer was anywhere from an OK but odd person to a complete psycho. I've read reports from a babysitter who was told not to turn her back on him - one would automatically think because he would be up to no good but no, a couple of lines will say it's because he had a physical impairment which meant he could not feel pain and therefore could get hurt very easily. I've read reports his mother was devoted to him and not the nutter some would like to portray her as. I've read that he was certainly well looked after.

One thing most seem to agree on is that he had some form of Asperger's. Reports associate his Asperger's to being a psycho to murdering children.

An insult to those suffering of Asperger Syndrome.

We just don't know. And we probably never will.

Oh... and stop feeling Zoso's sensitivity in public.

anything to distract from the4 gun culture so people can keep their guns...

I have been felt up enough the last couple of days.

comebackgirl

riotgrl wrote:

JonnyPistachio wrote:

Zoso wrote:

mental illness needs to be addressed but their is no link on a world scale to mental illness and mass shootings or violence for that matter..... mental illness is a problem everywhere but mental illness/mass shootings isn't a factor anywhere else but America. So there is no link. the only difference in America to everywhere else is the access and amount of guns... that is it. I have said this 10 times. it's simple.

people all over the world suffer from mental illness but AREN'T SHOOTING UP SCHOOLS.... next distraction....

Good point. its our culture too...and the availability of guns. It really makes one wonder if its not just too late to do anything. :(

Not sure if this article was posted elsewhere so I apologize if it has.

http://www.courier-journal.com/comments/usatodayarticle/1776191

Interesting point about the root cause of gun violence in our country although other nations have high gun ownerhsip as well. A change in culture is definitely in order. Rather than focusing on the individual perhaps we should focus on increasing our collective mentality. That means a focus on community and fostering empathy for those within our community. Schools are on the right track in regards to demanding volunteer hours for their students but where some of these initiatives fail is that the focus is still on the individual. Usually students undertake these effortts in a quest to gain college admittance or schoarlships.

Thank you for posting this. I think this has a lot to do with the problems we are seeing. There is a reason that there are much lower rates of gun violence in other countries and it has a lot to do with social values

dignin

pandora wrote:

You think this young man was not mentally ill after all the reports? After a look into his life
and what others have said... or is it... it would not matter to you if he was.

I'm sure I have read on here somewhere that you said you can't trust the media. Why do you trust what they are reporting now? They have gotten so many things wrong so far, there has been so much speculation and you seem to be taking it as gospel. They have been in such a rush to scoop each other that they get things wrong. They bring on talking heads who push there own agendas and speculate more.

Take a deep breath and let the facts come out, they will. Then have a healthy debate about the facts.

pandora

comebackgirl wrote:

pandora wrote:

comebackgirl wrote:

I feel you and your sensitivity

I'm not even sure why mental illness has become the focus when I've yet to hear if the shooter had a mental illness. So far I've heard he may have had Asperger's, which is a neurodevelopmental disorder and wouldn't explain this violence. We do know that he used a gun though, so maybe we should start with what we know for sure, rather than what is simply speculation

Wow head in sand syndrome. Says a lot about our mental health care
in our country.Losing....
That is exactly the point... all the warning signs and no metal health diagnosis or treatment.
Good going America!

This disease coupled with focus, obsession with guns and hours of gun play daily in a bunker type room
along with withdrawal from human contact, human bonds and being ostrichsized in his town
might have played a little role in why he did what he did. Maybe just maybe :fp:
that is sarcasm. And we know from his brother and father he had other issues.

A blow out at the school the day before set if off. The kid was on the brink
but I wonder if anyone even noticed, let alone cared. When will they?

When will mental health professionals make the demands needed to provide care to people,
ball in their court.
.

I'll ignore the personal insult. This time.

What other diagnosis and treatment should he have had Pandora? It certainly seems like the family had the financial means to seek an assessment and get treatment. Not every killer is mentally ill. Shocking I know. It's also been reported that he may have had a personality disorder, which would make a lot of sense with regard to this kind of violence, but that hasn't been confirmed. People with personality disorders blame others for their problems and always feel victimized. They often seek revenge. This is their way of relating,but there is no pill that will cure it. The hyper focus on games and social isolation is often a part of autism spectrum disorders and not necessarily a cause for concern. Some people focus on games, others its sharks or history, etc. it's part of the neurological functioning. It's very possible the shooter had a personality disorder or another diagnosis in addition to the Asperger's, but this hasn't been confirmed You seem to have more information than I do about his symptoms. We do know he used guns though and we know how he got them

Oh please...
Well I guess his focus mattered in this case as we see. If he had not had a gun it would be
a car and and schoolyard of children. His pain came from exactly where he took his anger.
isn't that the way... There where he never fit in.
He was at a breaking point, a boil over and he did not get the help he needed to avoid this.
Our society, our school system, our parents, our utter blind eyes to the mentally ill
caused this tragedy.

Is James Holmes mentally ill? I think I heard yes
hmmmm interesting and so very obvious but maybe it was only to me.
I know it mattered not to many here, no forgiving even the mentally ill.

Sometimes the obvious is hard to see for the walls put in place.
It is true some can not feel it and that is not funny, it's part of the problem.
This most especially in our healthcare industry. Been there done that, most ineffectively
and with much disappointment.

Cosmo

...
Good question.. and I thought about it alot last night. Why?
Is it because your fear the tyranny of your Representative Government?
Are you afraid that the Government is going to knock down your door and confiscate all of your possessions?
Are you afraid of an invading army from a Foriegn Land... like Canada?
How about an invading hoard of busboys... from Mexico?
Or... are you afraid of other Americans?
...
I think the latter comes into play 99% of the time. The other 1% are those crazy militia types and their looney conspiracies about black helicopters and blue helmets and contrails of doom. The truth is... we don't trust our fellow citizens.
In case of a disaster... is the Government going to come and take away your food and water? No. Your neighbors are. Is the Government going to break into your house at night to steal your flat screen T.V? No. An American is.
The bottom line being... we may say we don't trust the Government... which is certifiable beacuse they certainly do things that garner our weariness... but, we buy guns because, at the base of our fear, we do not trust our people and feel the need to protect ourselves from them... the Americans.

Zoso

the mental health industry is in crisis ALL over the world. This doesn't happen in France or Belgium. I need you to tell me why you think mentally ill Americans decide to shoot up school and others don't from other countries who are mentally ill?

ALL other factors are the same worldwide: violent movies, games etc...

Zoso

Cosmo wrote:

Good question.. and I thought about it alot last night. Why?
Is it because your fear the tyranny of your Representative Government?
Are you afraid that the Government is going to knock down your door and confiscate all of your possessions?
Are you afraid of an invading army from a Foriegn Land... like Canada?
How about an invading hoard of busboys... from Mexico?
Or... are you afraid of other Americans?
...
I think the latter comes into play 99% of the time. The other 1% are those crazy militia types and their looney conspiracies about black helicopters and blue helmets and contrails of doom. The truth is... we don't trust our fellow citizens.
In case of a disaster... is the Government going to come and take away your food and water? No. Your neighbors are. Is the Government going to break into your house at night to steal your flat screen T.V? No. An American is.
The bottom line being... we may say we don't trust the Government... which is certifiable beacuse they certainly do things that garner our weariness... but, we buy guns because, at the base of our fear, we do not trust our people and feel the need to protect ourselves from them... the Americans.

the stats don't lie.. as much people like to have guns for self defense.. 1 out of 50 gun deaths are people murdering in self defense/protecting themselves the other 49 are accident's, actual murders, mass muders and suicides.... this can't be explained away.

JimmyV

Zoso wrote:

the mental health industry is in crisis ALL over the world. This doesn't happen in France or Belgium. I need you to tell me why you think mentally ill Americans decide to shoot up school and others don't from other countries who are mentally ill?

This is the all important question, isn't it?

Proper attention to mental illness is indeed important but I have not seen any information (yet) that in this case the issue is anything more than a smokescreen.

pandora

dignin wrote:

pandora wrote:

You think this young man was not mentally ill after all the reports? After a look into his life
and what others have said... or is it... it would not matter to you if he was.

I'm sure I have read on here somewhere that you said you can't trust the media. Why do you trust what they are reporting now? They have gotten so many things wrong so far, there has been so much speculation and you seem to be taking it as gospel. They have been in such a rush to scoop each other that they get things wrong. They bring on talking heads who push there own agendas and speculate more.

Take a deep breath and let the facts come out, they will. Then have a healthy debate about the facts.

I said I had not heard such conflicting reports... like a twitter fest or something the hours following.
I think they should wait for facts officials release and not give this the massive airtime they do.

These new facts are coming out days later and are released into many media venues.
The gaming aspect was released as soon as the brother and father finished their police interviews.
And yes this is the boy we all made and all failed.

You didn't answer my questions though ...
do you think he was mentally ill based on the info you have and would that matter to you?

Cosmo

Zoso wrote:

the stats don't lie.. as much people like to have guns for self defense.. 1 out of 50 gun deaths are people murdering in self defense/protecting themselves the other 49 are accident's, actual murders, mass muders and suicides.... this can't be explained away.

...
Agree. Those are the outcomes... the results of guns in the hands of the citizenry.
Know1 was looking for the answer to WHY people buy guns in the first place. And as you said, 'It's for protection' is probably the number one reason given. Protection, not from the tyranny of our government, but the threat of harm... from our own citizenry... our armed and dangerous citizenry.