Why own a gun?

Zoso

pandora wrote:

comebackgirl wrote:

You're right - it's all speculation. It's so hard to fathom that a sane person would does this that we want to believe he's insane to make sense of it. I just really really fear of the stigma this can create for Aspergers. The ways people on the spectrum relate normally would look like decompensation of mental health for neurotypicals (social withdrawal, fixation on one thing), but it's not for these folks. And there is no connection between asperger's and this kind of violence. It would be like mentioning the shooter had diabetes. I really worry about so much misinformation being spread. It's very harmful


Poor Zoso being felt up all over the place :shock:

You said that about James Holmes too when we debated his mental illness.
I guess you don't have to now though...speculate on him.


In my logical opinion it is a combination unique to the shooter ...
mental illness and basic inherent traits, experiences and interwoven relationships,
failures of those who should have helped him, a culture of gun glory and
obsessive gun play. His mother's personality playing a huge part. His fathers
leaving him. He suffered classic betrayal from his world.
Asperger's has no more connection then other illnesses
is what I heard an expert report. But coupled with his other mental illness , his life,
his influences, his isolation and growing frustration, together it made what we got.

so you agree finally that the only difference in america is the gun glory and gun culture. ok now we're getting some place... but it has taken about 15 pages worth of posts.

blackredyellow

dignin wrote:

pandora wrote:

Oh great a defeatist...
welcome to what the mentally ill face everyday ...they are disposable trash. The less than.
Sorry I think this boy could have been helped ... silly me.

No, no. Silly me thinking I could have a reasonable debate with you without you trying to make it personal. This is not about me or you.

I deal with mental illness everyday with a Brother who is bi-polar. I have a great deal of experience with the mentally ill. Do you? Forget about it, don't bother answering. I don't really care.

You have a fine track record. I will no longer bother trying.

Pandora 101... make mostly baseless assumptions, when asked to back them up, she argues against strawmen and makes herself the victim.

Jason P

One of my old friends broke into his ex-girlfriends house yesterday and apparantly shot the place up with two handguns. Thank God no one was home at the time.

He surrendered to police when the arrived. He was covered with blood from when he broke the door glass to gain entry. Apparantly their was a trail of blood as he searched around the house looking for her.

:?

I used to hang out with him a lot, but he has been in a steady systematic decline in alcoholism for the last 3 years to the point that most of his friend abandoned him and his destructive ways.

Looks like it will be another 10 - 15 years before I see him again.

pandora

Zoso wrote:

troubled kids everywhere aren't shooting up schools on a global size... please answer why American mentally ill are more prone to picking up a gun and shooting people? The mentally ill boy in Belgium or Japan haven't got access to a gun if they want to inflict pain... for the 15 time.

Do you read my posts? Of course this is unique to the US for more reasons than one.
We have covered this but it changes nothing. We are speaking of the US.

And pages back I said...

pandora wrote:

this is my agenda... mental health care and awareness...
gunbanners can continue with theirs... together perhaps change can come

I noticed no one quoted that and said yes, indeed ...

I'm even on board with state level regulations :? But I realize you are an extremist..
yes? ...
a gunbanner that we can not agree on. So we just must agree to disagree.

pandora

Jason P wrote:

One of my old friends broke into his ex-girlfriends house yesterday and apparantly shot the place up with two handguns. Thank God no one was home at the time.

He surrendered to police when the arrived. He was covered with blood from when he broke the door glass to gain entry. Apparantly their was a trail of blood as he searched around the house looking for her.

:?

I used to hang out with him a lot, but he has been in a steady systematic decline in alcoholism for the last 3 years to the point that most of his friend abandoned him and his destructive ways.

Looks like it will be another 10 - 15 years before I see him again.

Oh I'm sorry... lots of people drink to excess because they are undiagnosed bi polar
or in a deep depression. Our prisons full of the mentally ill.

MotoDC

Jason P wrote:

One of my old friends broke into his ex-girlfriends house yesterday and apparantly shot the place up with two handguns. Thank God no one was home at the time.

He surrendered to police when the arrived. He was covered with blood from when he broke the door glass to gain entry. Apparantly their was a trail of blood as he searched around the house looking for her.

:?

I used to hang out with him a lot, but he has been in a steady systematic decline in alcoholism for the last 3 years to the point that most of his friend abandoned him and his destructive ways.

Looks like it will be another 10 - 15 years before I see him again.

Holy shit.

hedonist

Jason P wrote:

One of my old friends broke into his ex-girlfriends house yesterday and apparantly shot the place up with two handguns. Thank God no one was home at the time.

He surrendered to police when the arrived. He was covered with blood from when he broke the door glass to gain entry. Apparantly their was a trail of blood as he searched around the house looking for her.

:?

I used to hang out with him a lot, but he has been in a steady systematic decline in alcoholism for the last 3 years to the point that most of his friend abandoned him and his destructive ways.

Looks like it will be another 10 - 15 years before I see him again.

Holy hell.

Jason P

Police arrived to the scene around noon. It didn't mention in the news if he was drunk, but I'd say its a safe bet his BAC was over .25

dignin

Jason P wrote:

One of my old friends broke into his ex-girlfriends house yesterday and apparantly shot the place up with two handguns. Thank God no one was home at the time.

He surrendered to police when the arrived. He was covered with blood from when he broke the door glass to gain entry. Apparantly their was a trail of blood as he searched around the house looking for her.

:?

I used to hang out with him a lot, but he has been in a steady systematic decline in alcoholism for the last 3 years to the point that most of his friend abandoned him and his destructive ways.

Looks like it will be another 10 - 15 years before I see him again.

Scary story, sorry to here about your friend but glad he was the only one hurt.

comebackgirl

pandora wrote:

comebackgirl wrote:

You're right - it's all speculation. It's so hard to fathom that a sane person would does this that we want to believe he's insane to make sense of it. I just really really fear of the stigma this can create for Aspergers. The ways people on the spectrum relate normally would look like decompensation of mental health for neurotypicals (social withdrawal, fixation on one thing), but it's not for these folks. And there is no connection between asperger's and this kind of violence. It would be like mentioning the shooter had diabetes. I really worry about so much misinformation being spread. It's very harmful


Poor Zoso being felt up all over the place :shock:

You said that about James Holmes too when we debated his mental illness.
I guess you don't have to now though...speculate on him.


In my logical opinion it is a combination unique to the shooter ...
mental illness and basic inherent traits, experiences and interwoven relationships,
failures of those who should have helped him, a culture of gun glory and
obsessive gun play. His mother's personality playing a huge part. His fathers
leaving him. He suffered classic betrayal from his world.
Asperger's has no more connection then other illnesses
is what I heard an expert report. But coupled with his other mental illness , his life,
his influences, his isolation and growing frustration, together it made what we got.

Right - and I still don't have clarification of James Holmes' diagnosis, do you? I know he saw the psychiatrist for an evaluation, and as I said then and still say now, I don't know if that's because he has a psychotic disorder, a dissociative disorder, a personality disorder, a combination, or none of the above. I haven't been privy to his assessments.

Pandora it's clear that you are unfamiliar with the nature of autism spectrum disorders and how they present. This is a good learning opportunity as you further your mental health advocacy

So we know there are angry and unstable people out there who readily access guns. What do we do about that? And back to the OP why have one, especially if a loved one is angry, suicidal or unstable?

JonnyPistachio

Cosmos post got me thinking too. Why own a gun?

I read this in an article yesterday:
"Firearms are very unevenly distributed around the world. The image we have of certain regions such as Africa or Latin America being awash with weapons -- these images are certainly misleading," Small Arms Survey director Keith Krause said, "Weapons ownership may be correlated with rising levels of wealth, and that means we need to think about future demand in parts of the world where economic growth is giving people larger disposable income," he told a Geneva news conference.

...and it made sense to me...I have quite a few friends who have them because they're so accessible and they have money to spend. and if we didnt have so much crap -- huge TVs, Ps3s, ipads, iphones, and whatnot, we wouldnt need to defend it all...

Then there's the fact that gun sales SOARED since Obama took office...and ironically, he's done nothing in terms of gun control. Is that unfounded fear? maybe.

Zoso

pandora wrote:

Zoso wrote:

troubled kids everywhere aren't shooting up schools on a global size... please answer why American mentally ill are more prone to picking up a gun and shooting people? The mentally ill boy in Belgium or Japan haven't got access to a gun if they want to inflict pain... for the 15 time.

Do you read my posts? Of course this is unique to the US for more reasons than one.
We have covered this but it changes nothing. We are speaking of the US.

And pages back I said...

pandora wrote:

this is my agenda... mental health care and awareness...
gunbanners can continue with theirs... together perhaps change can come

I noticed no one quoted that and said yes, indeed ...

I'm even on board with state level regulations :? But I realize you are an extremist..
yes? ...
a gunbanner that we can not agree on. So we just must agree to disagree.

I live a crazy extreme life... you should how extreme my day has been today... Politically, not really just on par with the Jon Stewart's of this world.

redrock

Scary stuff Jason P. Alcohol & guns certainly don't mix.

dignin

blackredyellow wrote:

dignin wrote:

pandora wrote:

Oh great a defeatist...
welcome to what the mentally ill face everyday ...they are disposable trash. The less than.
Sorry I think this boy could have been helped ... silly me.

No, no. Silly me thinking I could have a reasonable debate with you without you trying to make it personal. This is not about me or you.

I deal with mental illness everyday with a Brother who is bi-polar. I have a great deal of experience with the mentally ill. Do you? Forget about it, don't bother answering. I don't really care.

You have a fine track record. I will no longer bother trying.

Pandora 101... make mostly baseless assumptions, when asked to back them up, she argues against strawmen and makes herself the victim.

A tad bit sad

pandora

blackredyellow wrote:

dignin wrote:

pandora wrote:

Oh great a defeatist...
welcome to what the mentally ill face everyday ...they are disposable trash. The less than.
Sorry I think this boy could have been helped ... silly me.

No, no. Silly me thinking I could have a reasonable debate with you without you trying to make it personal. This is not about me or you.

I deal with mental illness everyday with a Brother who is bi-polar. I have a great deal of experience with the mentally ill. Do you? Forget about it, don't bother answering. I don't really care.

You have a fine track record. I will no longer bother trying.

Pandora 101... make mostly baseless assumptions, when asked to back them up, she argues against strawmen and makes herself the victim.

Personal insulting comments get people banned.. there's that word again
now that ban I'm in favor of most especially when one resorts to not following the guidelines
of our dear community. Why must you break the guidelines?

pandora

Zoso wrote:

pandora wrote:

comebackgirl wrote:

You're right - it's all speculation. It's so hard to fathom that a sane person would does this that we want to believe he's insane to make sense of it. I just really really fear of the stigma this can create for Aspergers. The ways people on the spectrum relate normally would look like decompensation of mental health for neurotypicals (social withdrawal, fixation on one thing), but it's not for these folks. And there is no connection between asperger's and this kind of violence. It would be like mentioning the shooter had diabetes. I really worry about so much misinformation being spread. It's very harmful


Poor Zoso being felt up all over the place :shock:

You said that about James Holmes too when we debated his mental illness.
I guess you don't have to now though...speculate on him.


In my logical opinion it is a combination unique to the shooter ...
mental illness and basic inherent traits, experiences and interwoven relationships,
failures of those who should have helped him, a culture of gun glory and
obsessive gun play. His mother's personality playing a huge part. His fathers
leaving him. He suffered classic betrayal from his world.
Asperger's has no more connection then other illnesses
is what I heard an expert report. But coupled with his other mental illness , his life,
his influences, his isolation and growing frustration, together it made what we got.

so you agree finally that the only difference in america is the gun glory and gun culture. ok now we're getting some place... but it has taken about 15 pages worth of posts.

Huh that is all I've been saying in every thread ...

comebackgirl

Jason P wrote:

One of my old friends broke into his ex-girlfriends house yesterday and apparantly shot the place up with two handguns. Thank God no one was home at the time.

He surrendered to police when the arrived. He was covered with blood from when he broke the door glass to gain entry. Apparantly their was a trail of blood as he searched around the house looking for her.

:?

I used to hang out with him a lot, but he has been in a steady systematic decline in alcoholism for the last 3 years to the point that most of his friend abandoned him and his destructive ways.

Looks like it will be another 10 - 15 years before I see him again.

Scary, scary, scary. I'm glad his ex wasn't home and he surrendered.

Jason P

Here is the article on the guy ...

http://www.staceypageonline.com/2012/12 ... ends-home/

I used to call him The Mayor because he knew everyone in the county and had a great personality. It's sad how the alcohol took over. We intervened and got him in rehab and he made it a solid year without any problems. There were whispers in the last year that he had started boozing again.

Maybe prison is what he needs to sober up.

Very sad.

comebackgirl

pandora wrote:

blackredyellow wrote:

dignin wrote:

No, no. Silly me thinking I could have a reasonable debate with you without you trying to make it personal. This is not about me or you.

I deal with mental illness everyday with a Brother who is bi-polar. I have a great deal of experience with the mentally ill. Do you? Forget about it, don't bother answering. I don't really care.

You have a fine track record. I will no longer bother trying.

Pandora 101... make mostly baseless assumptions, when asked to back them up, she argues against strawmen and makes herself the victim.

Personal insulting comments get people banned.. there's that word again
now that ban I'm in favor of most especially when one resorts to not following the guidelines
of our dear community. Why must you break the guidelines?

If you hate something, don't you do it too

pandora

comebackgirl wrote:

pandora wrote:

comebackgirl wrote:

You're right - it's all speculation. It's so hard to fathom that a sane person would does this that we want to believe he's insane to make sense of it. I just really really fear of the stigma this can create for Aspergers. The ways people on the spectrum relate normally would look like decompensation of mental health for neurotypicals (social withdrawal, fixation on one thing), but it's not for these folks. And there is no connection between asperger's and this kind of violence. It would be like mentioning the shooter had diabetes. I really worry about so much misinformation being spread. It's very harmful


Poor Zoso being felt up all over the place :shock:

You said that about James Holmes too when we debated his mental illness.
I guess you don't have to now though...speculate on him.


In my logical opinion it is a combination unique to the shooter ...
mental illness and basic inherent traits, experiences and interwoven relationships,
failures of those who should have helped him, a culture of gun glory and
obsessive gun play. His mother's personality playing a huge part. His fathers
leaving him. He suffered classic betrayal from his world.
Asperger's has no more connection then other illnesses
is what I heard an expert report. But coupled with his other mental illness , his life,
his influences, his isolation and growing frustration, together it made what we got.

Right - and I still don't have clarification of James Holmes' diagnosis, do you? I know he saw the psychiatrist for an evaluation, and as I said then and still say now, I don't know if that's because he has a psychotic disorder, a dissociative disorder, a personality disorder, a combination, or none of the above. I haven't been privy to his assessments.

Pandora it's clear that you are unfamiliar with the nature of autism spectrum disorders and how they present. This is a good learning opportunity as you further your mental health advocacy

So we know there are angry and unstable people out there who readily access guns. What do we do about that? And back to the OP why have one, especially if a loved one is angry, suicidal or unstable?

Actually I do know much about autism spectrum and see it as part of the package that
I mentioned bringing this boy to where he was in a lifetime.
But then I'm free to see things you are not. Maybe its a law or something.

Totally agree with your last statements. Guns are not for the mentally ill or suicidal
but I think everyone agrees with that.