A Year In Jail For Not Believing in God? Oh, Kentucky.

redrock

catefrances wrote:

hedonist wrote:

..... Fear does things to people, albeit differently.

I'll even admit that when Danny went in for his second lung surgery and I was alone in the waiting room for hours, I was thinking "if there IS a god, please look after him and have him come through this OK".....

aah yes the old no atheist in the foxhole adage. i have known fear.. i remain an atheist.

I've known fear, stared death in the eyes a couple of times and hedonist, like you, had a loved one go through major medical trauma (my husband 'died' a couple of times). Even then, way down deep, I did not go down the 'if there is a god' route. I tried to find my strength from within and, for my husband, instead of 'summoning' a god, I was conguring his inner strength. We human beings are very powerful in ourselves and we should believe in this power before relying on an external factor.

catefrances

redrock wrote:

catefrances wrote:

hedonist wrote:

..... Fear does things to people, albeit differently.

I'll even admit that when Danny went in for his second lung surgery and I was alone in the waiting room for hours, I was thinking "if there IS a god, please look after him and have him come through this OK".....

aah yes the old no atheist in the foxhole adage. i have known fear.. i remain an atheist.

I've known fear, stared death in the eyes a couple of times and hedonist, like you, had a loved one go through major medical trauma (my husband 'died' a couple of times). Even then, way down deep, I did not go down the 'if there is a god' route. I tried to find my strength from within and, for my husband, instead of 'summoning' a god, I was conguring his inner strength. We human beings are very powerful in ourselves and we should believe in this power before relying on an external factor.

you know i never deny having a soul...its what i call my conscience. and just reading your post redrock i wonder if perhaps what people call God is actually that deep well within themselves from which they summon strength when needed, to which they ask for guidance and give thanks in acknowledgement of knowing what was needed when it was needed. to me this makes sense considering mankind has created God in his own image.

pandora

hedonist wrote:

My comment came from earlier posts of yours – “free yourself to believe”, etc. I inferred it as one being closeminded or mentally/emotionally chained if they come to the conclusion to NOT believe…or to say they simply don’t know.

(and…”common sense to know and feel god”? C’mon now)

Free yourself to believe is the option to not use logical thought.
Easier than it sounds for many.

What is your definition of common sense? Apply it to your own.
Perhaps through understanding you can then apply it to knowing and feeling God
and the presence of God that others have experienced, leaving this to be common sense.

pandora

redrock wrote:

I've known fear, stared death in the eyes a couple of times and hedonist, like you, had a loved one go through major medical trauma (my husband 'died' a couple of times). Even then, way down deep, I did not go down the 'if there is a god' route. I tried to find my strength from within and, for my husband, instead of 'summoning' a god, I was conguring his inner strength. We human beings are very powerful in ourselves and we should believe in this power before relying on an external factor.

Point is God is not an external factor ...

God was there whether you wanted this positive loving strength or not.
It is a force you and I can not shed.
You can not turn this off because you do not believe. God does not exist at your whim.

The fear I speak of does not rely on circumstance nor another human being.
Again logic applied. I am speaking of the fear that is you and I alone.

pandora

catefrances wrote:

you know i never deny having a soul...its what i call my conscience. and just reading your post redrock i wonder if perhaps what people call God is actually that deep well within themselves from which they summon strength when needed, to which they ask for guidance and give thanks in acknowledgement of knowing what was needed when it was needed. to me this makes sense considering mankind has created God in his own image.[/quote]

You give yourself too much credit Cate. I hear your human factor caged in oneness instead
of the beings we truly are. I also hear the propaganda of religion that confines you.

God was experienced long before Earth was created. God was within us long before
we walked the Earth. Man did not create God, man created religion. You are confusing
the two. Both you and red rock were indoctrinated in religion and abolished
it and in doing so you think you have abolished God from your soul.

Our souls are far more than knowing right from wrong and making choices based on that.
Our soul connection to God is the basis of us and our path our journey together.

Of course this is my belief and one you do not agree with.

redrock

pandora wrote:

Both you and red rock were indoctrinated in religion and abolished
it and in doing so you think you have abolished God from your soul..[/i]

Do not speak of me and things you do not know. This is the kind of post someone talking out of her arse would write. End of.

redrock

catefrances wrote:

you know i never deny having a soul...its what i call my conscience. and just reading your post redrock i wonder if perhaps what people call God is actually that deep well within themselves from which they summon strength when needed, to which they ask for guidance and give thanks in acknowledgement of knowing what was needed when it was needed. to me this makes sense considering mankind has created God in his own image.

Our soul, our psyche, our conscience. What makes us who we are. An infinite source of strength which we can draw upon (if we open ourselves to it )

Personally, I don't believe those who get their strength from an external, almighty source would consider the immense power of the 'within' and would consider that this would be 'god'. But for me, we are each our own god/goddess!

Of course this is my belief and some may not agree.

hedonist

redrock wrote:

I've known fear, stared death in the eyes a couple of times and hedonist, like you, had a loved one go through major medical trauma (my husband 'died' a couple of times). Even then, way down deep, I did not go down the 'if there is a god' route. I tried to find my strength from within and, for my husband, instead of 'summoning' a god, I was conguring his inner strength. We human beings are very powerful in ourselves and we should believe in this power before relying on an external factor.

Though I know in that time I was as strong as I was able to muster, I do wish I could've been moreso. Perhaps that was borne of fear or trying to relate to/pick up on what my father/his family relied upon in their times of trouble.

Live, learn, try to be(come) strong(er).

Sometimes, it is a struggle.

I'm glad your husband came through, and for how YOU got through it

hedonist

catefrances wrote:

you know i never deny having a soul...its what i call my conscience. and just reading your post redrock i wonder if perhaps what people call God is actually that deep well within themselves from which they summon strength when needed, to which they ask for guidance and give thanks in acknowledgement of knowing what was needed when it was needed. to me this makes sense considering mankind has created God in his own image.

Insightful...kinda makes sense to me. I'm gonna chew on this one for awhile.

keeponrockin

Nobody's answered my question.

Why is this a law?

riotgrl

This is such a great conversation. Makes me wish we were all sitting together enjoying a glass of wine (or whatever ) discussing this!

For my persepctive, I consider myself agnostic, I suppose. Although, only because I don't KNOW anything for sure. I remember as a young child questioning all the religous beliefs that i was being taught because it just didn't make sense. I have faith in a lot of poeple and ideas but the concept of "god" - I like cates explanation of it being MY voice, MY conscience that is guiding and directing me not some outside source that "we" have labeled "god". I have a stronger belief in nature and our place in nature and the cycle of life. Animism is not exactly what I mean but it might be the closest to my true beliefs. Humans are not living in harmony with the natural world and I think that is why we need to seek out "god" to fill that void that we seem to be missing. It's taken me a long time to shed the religious trappings that have shaped a good portion of my life but I finally feel that I've been freed from believing in a concept that never resonated with me.

riotgrl

keeponrockin wrote:

Nobody's answered my question.

Why is this a law?

While this article doesn't comletely explain the rationale it does shed some light

http://www.kentucky.com/2011/10/29/1938427/court-upholds-kentucky-law-requiring.html

redrock

hedonist wrote:

Though I know in that time I was as strong as I was able to muster, I do wish I could've been moreso. Perhaps that was borne of fear or trying to relate to/pick up on what my father/his family relied upon in their times of trouble.

Live, learn, try to be(come) strong(er).

Sometimes, it is a struggle.

I'm glad your husband came through, and for how YOU got through it

One does what one can given the circumstances. And it definitely can be a struggle but isnt' that what we're all about? Pushing the boundaries, struggling with that but believing in ourselves, each time learning more about our capabilities, getting stronger and succeeding.

What you say is a reality for a lot of people - in times of 'need' (whatever this need may be) and when one feels too overwhelmed, one can turn to a 'helping hand' - 'god' is a common one. I'm sure if there had been a human being that you thought had the power to ensure Danny would be safe through surgery (or others said this person had the power), you would have 'prayed' to this human!

My husband came through everything with his own strength and power (and the help of doctors!). His strength also came from our daughter, me and his parents. He willed himself to live for us. It could have just as easily gone the other way. As for me, I could do no less than what my husband was doing....

redrock

riotgrl wrote:

.... I have a stronger belief in nature and our place in nature and the cycle of life. .... Humans are not living in harmony with the natural world .....

At one with nature, at one with mankind. Ideally.

pandora

The logical mind has trouble going beyond what is proven and seen.
People can see and feel nature,
people can see and feel mankind...
right there to see, to touch, to know.

But what is keeping some minds from seeing and feeling God?
when this energy connects all life.
Is God and the concept only linked to religion for some?
So walls of avoidance exist... a great disconnect.

All the while the connection of life exists between them ...
nature, mankind, God, no need to separate.

brianlux

redrock wrote:

riotgrl wrote:

.... I have a stronger belief in nature and our place in nature and the cycle of life. .... Humans are not living in harmony with the natural world .....

At one with nature, at one with mankind. Ideally.

I awoke with the power out this morning (and am lucky to have it on right now- we're in for three days of big-time storm weather on the west coast) and my first thought was- crap, I have a doctors appt. this morning and no shower or heat and work to do later at home today that can't be done with the power off. My second thought was- my god, how far removed from nature I've become. I realized my life had become dependent on the grid and the industrial system. I knew I would make a poor Fijian. I wanted to start over and only know life as lived in the cycles of nature-- simple, easy, natural. How do we go back to that?

keeponrockin

pandora wrote:

But what is keeping some minds from seeing and feeling God?

Because there's no evidence.

redrock

Some do Brian but it must be very difficult. Completely 'unlearning' our life, our conditioning. You mentioned Gaia in another thread... How can we become part of this community (as a living organism) again? Not just the tangible aspect of mother nature but the wider 'philosophical' earth, the 'connection'.

PJ_Soul

keeponrockin wrote:

pandora wrote:

But what is keeping some minds from seeing and feeling God?

Because there's no evidence.

Also it makes no sense.

riotgrl

PJ_Soul wrote:

keeponrockin wrote:

pandora wrote:

But what is keeping some minds from seeing and feeling God?

Because there's no evidence.

Also it makes no sense.

I would also contend that modern "religion" is only about 10,000 years old. Hinduism is probably a bit older than that but because we do not have the entirety of written records we cannot know for sure. What did peoples do about religion before that time? They did not believe in a Hindu nor Buddhist nor Christian nor Muslim god. In my mind, that means they probably followed some form of an animist religion which we have moved away from since that time and it has become this organized religion that we say has truth and knowing, at least for some.