A Year In Jail For Not Believing in God? Oh, Kentucky.
Comments
-
It is false to think you cannot know God without leaving this world.Cosmo wrote:I think the entire God Concept is something we can know and understand... based upon the origins of the concept. But, it remains a concept and never even enters the realm of theory.
I believe we exist within the constraints of this physical Universe and are incapable of knowing the true nature of God. Perhaps, if there was a way to go beyond the bounds of this universe, to a different level of consciousness, we may be able to understand... therefore, know the truth about God.
In order to do that, we must die and release the live energy trapped in this physical form. And no one... as far as I know... has gone the complete route to tell us the truth. Not near-death... but actual death.
We are here to know God.
Our purpose, our beings, our consciousness and especially our subconscious
is directly connected to God.
The problem is most people can not connect because of logical thinking,
conscious walls that have been built to not allow themselves to connect.
If you know energy will live on then also know you begin the journey here
not when you leave.0 -
cate, I respect your views and your curiosity (rather than derision).catefrances wrote:im just very curious. im fascinated by psychology and so i find belief in God/s extremely interesting. what makes one person believe in God and the next person to not believe? is their belief the result of some trauma or the result of life long indoctrination or perhaps evolution revelation? if it was the result of trauma what was it that made them turn to God and not just sort through it logically? is it illogical to even turn to God?or do some think for them it was the only logical step? tho i have many many questions and always have had, once i came to the conclusion that for me the existence of God was not a truth for me my atheism didnt waver. and that is my truth.
The old adage "there are no atheists in foxholes" is something my dad said many times to me. When he was in WWII, he on more than one occasion experienced this with his fellow fighters. Fear does things to people, albeit differently.
I'll even admit that when Danny went in for his second lung surgery and I was alone in the waiting room for hours, I was thinking "if there IS a god, please look after him and have him come through this OK".
Beliefs (and non-beliefs) for some, I think, just evolve over time and experiences. Like Cosmo said, no problem with anyone believing as they do. Just do it peacefully.0 -
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mg-e9MtnWGY speaking of Big Bang
And have you hear about the 12 year old genius who is working on disproving the theory
along with many other scientists
http://www.theblaze.com/stories/a-beaut ... -big-bang/
we have so much to learn ...0 -
-
pandora wrote:I would say often non-belief is due to trauma. Being indoctrinated as a child, rebelling,
having family issues with that rebellion that carry into adulthood. People turn to atheism
because they do not connect nor feel the presence of God.
I use the word God for lack of a better word.
Absolutely not.
Who is really in control of God's presence? Does an individual have to be (required to) be 100% open and believing in God to feel it?
Every single atheist/agnostic I know very personally (and there are many), came to their beliefs through critical thinking and how they feel about the world around them. They aren't limited by something so catty as rebellion, indoctrination or trauma.Pick up my debut novel here on amazon: Jonny Bails Floatin (in paperback) (also available on Kindle for $2.99)0 -
Didn't read that way to me, but fair enough.pandora wrote:
Still, I think your "hung up" description isn't quite accurate.0 -
Oh so hung up ... I'm the Phedonist wrote:
Some people can not understand someone knowing because they can not.
Fighting against, freeing from the logical, many choose or can not.
Many believe they must wait to know at deaths door.0 -
How about this scenario? First was there was the Spirit, then came the sun. The sun brought forth the animals and the humans came later when the beaver pulled us from lumps of clay in a pond. The order seems correct to me. In fact, this particular version of the Blackfoot creation myth makes as much sense as any to me. Unfortunately, in part, the Blackfoot believing differently got them all (in a sense) jailed for life."It's a sad and beautiful world"-Roberto Benigni0
-
Hey Jonny,JonnyPistachio wrote:pandora wrote:I would say often non-belief is due to trauma. Being indoctrinated as a child, rebelling,
having family issues with that rebellion that carry into adulthood. People turn to atheism
because they do not connect nor feel the presence of God.
I use the word God for lack of a better word.
Absolutely not.
Who is really in control of God's presence? Does an individual have to be (required to) be 100% open and believing in God to feel it?
Every single atheist/agnostic I know very personally (and there are many), came to their beliefs through critical thinking and how they feel about the world around them. They aren't limited by something so catty as rebellion, indoctrination or trauma.
I was directing that to Cate to answer some questions she had and yes I believe
many leave religion due to the forced nature as children to learn and find faith.
This sets people up for failure, for expecting and not receiving.catefrances wrote:
im just very curious. im fascinated by psychology and so i find belief in God/s extremely interesting. what makes one person believe in God and the next person to not believe? is their belief the result of some trauma or the result of life long indoctrination or perhaps evolution revelation? if it was the result of trauma what was it that made them turn to God and not just sort through it logically? is it illogical to even turn to God?or do some think for them it was the only logical step? tho i have many many questions and always have had, once i came to the conclusion that for me the existence of God was not a truth for me my atheism didnt waver. and that is my truth.
Perhaps some are not honest with where their loss of belief came from.
Sometimes listening and reading between the lines one learns much about
the whys.
Critical thinking as in... ?
what one knows as fact?
Your first question ... it is not only within our control but our path to connect with God.0 -
Since the afterlife is a product of the indoctrination, I would venture that the majority would not.pandora wrote:If there were no religion, absolutely no indoctrination as children,
how many would believe in a supreme being, intelligent energy, a continuing existence,
after the human body ceases?
.
What does that have to do with religious indoctrination? One certainly does not need a god or religion to feel 'at one'. I would argue that, on the contrary, indoctrination is divisive and not unifying.pandora wrote:How many would feel the connection to others, to the universe?
.
Lennon couldn't have said it better:
Imagine there's no heaven
It's easy if you try
No hell below us
Above us only sky
Imagine all the people
Living for today...
Imagine there's no countries
It isn't hard to do
Nothing to kill or die for
And no religion too
Imagine all the people
Living life in peace...
You may say I'm a dreamer
But I'm not the only one
I hope someday you'll join us
And the world will be as one
Imagine no possessions
I wonder if you can
No need for greed or hunger
A brotherhood of man
Imagine all the people
Sharing all the world...
You may say I'm a dreamer
But I'm not the only one
I hope someday you'll join us
And the world will live as one0 -
Ahhh! (A Perfect Circle did a gorgeous cover of this)redrock wrote:What does that have to do with religious indoctrination? One certainly does not need a god or religion to feel 'at one'. I would argue that, on the contrary, indoctrination is divisive and not unifying.
Lennon couldn't have said it better:
Imagine there's no heaven
It's easy if you try
No hell below us
Above us only sky
Imagine all the people
Living for today...
Imagine there's no countries
It isn't hard to do
Nothing to kill or die for
And no religion too
Imagine all the people
Living life in peace...
You may say I'm a dreamer
But I'm not the only one
I hope someday you'll join us
And the world will be as one
Imagine no possessions
I wonder if you can
No need for greed or hunger
A brotherhood of man
Imagine all the people
Sharing all the world...
You may say I'm a dreamer
But I'm not the only one
I hope someday you'll join us
And the world will live as one
And, to add...
"I don't believe in Beatles
I just believe in me"
Like I said earlier - me...us...nature
(pandora - many choose not to believe or simply DON'T believe - and there's the rub...typically, I've found it's about choice; one's own path, and not inability or stubbornness or blindness)0 -
hedonist wrote:(pandora - many choose not to believe or simply DON'T believe - and there's the rub...typically, I've found it's about choice; one's own path, and not inability or stubbornness or blindness)
Exactly. Not a 'closed, cold heart' but maybe one open to, and accepting of, the tangible world (and also spiritual in a different way) around us.0 -
It's a stupid law to be sure, but reading that story, it's not a year in jail if you don't believe in God.
Perhaps poor reading comprehension leads to a lot of our differences.The only people we should try to get even with...
...are those who've helped us.
Right 'round the corner could be bigger than ourselves.0 -
I would say that there is probably no pattern as far as trauma and Atheism goes.pandora wrote:
I would say often non-belief is due to trauma. Being indoctrinated as a child, rebelling,catefrances wrote:
im just very curious. im fascinated by psychology and so i find belief in God/s extremely interesting. what makes one person believe in God and the next person to not believe? is their belief the result of some trauma or the result of life long indoctrination or perhaps evolution revelation? if it was the result of trauma what was it that made them turn to God and not just sort through it logically? is it illogical to even turn to God?or do some think for them it was the only logical step? tho i have many many questions and always have had, once i came to the conclusion that for me the existence of God was not a truth for me my atheism didnt waver. and that is my truth.
having family issues with that rebellion that carry into adulthood. People turn to atheism
because they do not connect nor feel the presence of God.
I use the word God for lack of a better word.
If there were no religion, absolutely no indoctrination as children,
how many would believe in a supreme being, intelligent energy, a continuing existence,
after the human body ceases?
How many would feel the connection to others, to the universe?
This is what is logical, what is common sense to believe.
Energy continues, there is no time and yes revelation, evolution it the key to
connecting. So is being open to the idea we are more than we appear,
being open to believe.
Just want to remind you that just because people are Atheists it doesn't necessarily mean they don't believe in some kind of continuing existence (I have no idea why some assume that this and God must go hand in hand), nor does it mean they lack that sense of connection to others or the universe. You don't need a belief in any God for those things, and you don't lose those things if you convert to Atheism ... I don't know why people turn to Atheism generally, but from my own experience, I can say that coming to the strong belief that God does not exist did not diminish my sense of connection to others or the universe at all. On the contrary. I feel that it actually expanded my sense of connection with nature and the universe, and made me feel quite liberated. I found the belief in God and its concept to act as a barrier to certain connections and possibilities, and no, I'm not talking about it in the restricted terms of organized religion (for me, organized religion is pretty much a human abomination, but that and the concept of God in and of itself are separate issues. By God I mean any kind of intelligent power or purposeful force in the world/universe. That is the most basic concept of God possible to still be talking about God IMO).
I understand why you talk about indoctrination and how without ever hearing of the concept of God, would we still feel that connection, and I think that Atheism actually proves that this is indeed the case.... Which kind of make the idea of God seem very pointless, actually. :think:With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata0 -
...hedonist wrote:cate, I respect your views and your curiosity (rather than derision).
The old adage "there are no atheists in foxholes" is something my dad said many times to me. When he was in WWII, he on more than one occasion experienced this with his fellow fighters. Fear does things to people, albeit differently.
I'll even admit that when Danny went in for his second lung surgery and I was alone in the waiting room for hours, I was thinking "if there IS a god, please look after him and have him come through this OK".
Beliefs (and non-beliefs) for some, I think, just evolve over time and experiences. Like Cosmo said, no problem with anyone believing as they do. Just do it peacefully.
To me... faith, hope and belief (including Religious belief) is a good thing and a positive human characteristic.
The problems arise when those traits are presented as a universal truth. The reason why it becomes a problem is because univeral truth applies to everyone.
So, everytime i hear anyone say they know, for a fact, that God exists... I know what it is.... religion. Religion is what proclaims belief as truth... whether it is the Catholic Church of Rome or one individual, it is the same thing. Faith is personal... belief is personal. My beliefs are personal and I only apply them to myself... i accept belief of others as their own and let them be. Just don't try to tell me that what you believe is the truth. It may be your truth... not anyone else's.
When someone says to me, 'You think too much'... I say, 'Yes, i do... because i am not stupid enough to blindly accept what you say is the truth'.Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
Hail, Hail!!!0 -
...hedonist wrote:Ahhh! (A Perfect Circle did a gorgeous cover of this)
And, to add...
"I don't believe in Beatles
I just believe in me"
Like I said earlier - me...us...nature
(pandora - many choose not to believe or simply DON'T believe - and there's the rub...typically, I've found it's about choice; one's own path, and not inability or stubbornness or blindness)
If there was no religion... we would have to pin everything we do on ourselves. No more blaming Satan... no more credit given to God. We would have to rely on ourselves to do what is right.
Even without religion... and the concept of God... we would still possess out spirit... our love... our hate... our thoughts... because those are all parts of our humanity.Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
Hail, Hail!!!0 -
Amen to that, Cos!Cosmo wrote:Faith is personal... belief is personal. My beliefs are personal and I only apply them to myself... i accept belief of others as their own and let them be. Just don't try to tell me that what you believe is the truth. It may be your truth... not anyone else's.0 -
I would agree indoctrination is not unifying at allredrock wrote:
Since the afterlife is a product of the indoctrination, I would venture that the majority would not.pandora wrote:If there were no religion, absolutely no indoctrination as children,
how many would believe in a supreme being, intelligent energy, a continuing existence,
after the human body ceases?
.
What does that have to do with religious indoctrination? One certainly does not need a god or religion to feel 'at one'. I would argue that, on the contrary, indoctrination is divisive and not unifying.pandora wrote:How many would feel the connection to others, to the universe?
.
Lennon couldn't have said it better:
Imagine there's no heaven
It's easy if you try
No hell below us
Above us only sky
Imagine all the people
Living for today...
Imagine there's no countries
It isn't hard to do
Nothing to kill or die for
And no religion too
Imagine all the people
Living life in peace...
You may say I'm a dreamer
But I'm not the only one
I hope someday you'll join us
And the world will be as one
Imagine no possessions
I wonder if you can
No need for greed or hunger
A brotherhood of man
Imagine all the people
Sharing all the world...
You may say I'm a dreamer
But I'm not the only one
I hope someday you'll join us
And the world will live as one0 -
Of course our life, our path is all about choices... what ever lead you to believe I do nothedonist wrote:
Ahhh! (A Perfect Circle did a gorgeous cover of this)redrock wrote:What does that have to do with religious indoctrination? One certainly does not need a god or religion to feel 'at one'. I would argue that, on the contrary, indoctrination is divisive and not unifying.
Lennon couldn't have said it better:
Imagine there's no heaven
It's easy if you try
No hell below us
Above us only sky
Imagine all the people
Living for today...
Imagine there's no countries
It isn't hard to do
Nothing to kill or die for
And no religion too
Imagine all the people
Living life in peace...
You may say I'm a dreamer
But I'm not the only one
I hope someday you'll join us
And the world will be as one
Imagine no possessions
I wonder if you can
No need for greed or hunger
A brotherhood of man
Imagine all the people
Sharing all the world...
You may say I'm a dreamer
But I'm not the only one
I hope someday you'll join us
And the world will live as one
And, to add...
"I don't believe in Beatles
I just believe in me"
Like I said earlier - me...us...nature
(pandora - many choose not to believe or simply DON'T believe - and there's the rub...typically, I've found it's about choice; one's own path, and not inability or stubbornness or blindness)
find this to be true? I speak of this often.
This as individual as each of us are.
Where does choice come from?
How do we choose?
Through my young life, being denied religion, helped me to view others
and how it effected them and their choices. As I grew and educated myself
on religion I found many of my peers turning away from God or their prescribed
teachings because of indoctrination, because of disappointment in what was expected
from religion /God.
Many are unable to even differentiate between God and religion,
as we see here on the forum. They are not one in the same, far from it.
But many can not understand this as never experiencing anything but God in religion.
Others like myself see no religion in God or the path that leads us from here.
It is common sense to know and feel this presence and the energy within us that
continues. So of course one does not need religion to feel one with the universe
or our supreme being.
I often hear the fear, disappointment, failure of God,
this from the child within the adult. I hear it here, I hear it from my past,
I hear it in my everyday life, we hear it in the world.
The failure lies within the individual though not within God.0
Categories
- All Categories
- 148.9K Pearl Jam's Music and Activism
- 110.1K The Porch
- 275 Vitalogy
- 35.1K Given To Fly (live)
- 3.5K Words and Music...Communication
- 39.2K Flea Market
- 39.2K Lost Dogs
- 58.7K Not Pearl Jam's Music
- 10.6K Musicians and Gearheads
- 29.1K Other Music
- 17.8K Poetry, Prose, Music & Art
- 1.1K The Art Wall
- 56.8K Non-Pearl Jam Discussion
- 22.2K A Moving Train
- 31.7K All Encompassing Trip
- 2.9K Technical Stuff and Help