..... Fear does things to people, albeit differently.
I'll even admit that when Danny went in for his second lung surgery and I was alone in the waiting room for hours, I was thinking "if there IS a god, please look after him and have him come through this OK".....
aah yes the old no atheist in the foxhole adage. i have known fear.. i remain an atheist.
I've known fear, stared death in the eyes a couple of times and hedonist, like you, had a loved one go through major medical trauma (my husband 'died' a couple of times). Even then, way down deep, I did not go down the 'if there is a god' route. I tried to find my strength from within and, for my husband, instead of 'summoning' a god, I was conguring his inner strength. We human beings are very powerful in ourselves and we should believe in this power before relying on an external factor.
..... Fear does things to people, albeit differently.
I'll even admit that when Danny went in for his second lung surgery and I was alone in the waiting room for hours, I was thinking "if there IS a god, please look after him and have him come through this OK".....
aah yes the old no atheist in the foxhole adage. i have known fear.. i remain an atheist.
I've known fear, stared death in the eyes a couple of times and hedonist, like you, had a loved one go through major medical trauma (my husband 'died' a couple of times). Even then, way down deep, I did not go down the 'if there is a god' route. I tried to find my strength from within and, for my husband, instead of 'summoning' a god, I was conguring his inner strength. We human beings are very powerful in ourselves and we should believe in this power before relying on an external factor.
you know i never deny having a soul...its what i call my conscience. and just reading your post redrock i wonder if perhaps what people call God is actually that deep well within themselves from which they summon strength when needed, to which they ask for guidance and give thanks in acknowledgement of knowing what was needed when it was needed. to me this makes sense considering mankind has created God in his own image.
hear my name
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
My comment came from earlier posts of yours – “free yourself to believe”, etc. I inferred it as one being closeminded or mentally/emotionally chained if they come to the conclusion to NOT believe…or to say they simply don’t know.
(and…”common sense to know and feel god”? C’mon now)
Free yourself to believe is the option to not use logical thought.
Easier than it sounds for many.
What is your definition of common sense? Apply it to your own.
Perhaps through understanding you can then apply it to knowing and feeling God
and the presence of God that others have experienced, leaving this to be common sense.
I've known fear, stared death in the eyes a couple of times and hedonist, like you, had a loved one go through major medical trauma (my husband 'died' a couple of times). Even then, way down deep, I did not go down the 'if there is a god' route. I tried to find my strength from within and, for my husband, instead of 'summoning' a god, I was conguring his inner strength. We human beings are very powerful in ourselves and we should believe in this power before relying on an external factor.
Point is God is not an external factor ...
God was there whether you wanted this positive loving strength or not.
It is a force you and I can not shed.
You can not turn this off because you do not believe. God does not exist at your whim.
The fear I speak of does not rely on circumstance nor another human being.
Again logic applied. I am speaking of the fear that is you and I alone.
you know i never deny having a soul...its what i call my conscience. and just reading your post redrock i wonder if perhaps what people call God is actually that deep well within themselves from which they summon strength when needed, to which they ask for guidance and give thanks in acknowledgement of knowing what was needed when it was needed. to me this makes sense considering mankind has created God in his own image.[/quote]
You give yourself too much credit Cate. I hear your human factor caged in oneness instead
of the beings we truly are. I also hear the propaganda of religion that confines you.
God was experienced long before Earth was created. God was within us long before
we walked the Earth. Man did not create God, man created religion. You are confusing
the two. Both you and red rock were indoctrinated in religion and abolished
it and in doing so you think you have abolished God from your soul.
Our souls are far more than knowing right from wrong and making choices based on that.
Our soul connection to God is the basis of us and our path our journey together.
Of course this is my belief and one you do not agree with.
you know i never deny having a soul...its what i call my conscience. and just reading your post redrock i wonder if perhaps what people call God is actually that deep well within themselves from which they summon strength when needed, to which they ask for guidance and give thanks in acknowledgement of knowing what was needed when it was needed. to me this makes sense considering mankind has created God in his own image.
Our soul, our psyche, our conscience. What makes us who we are. An infinite source of strength which we can draw upon (if we open ourselves to it )
Personally, I don't believe those who get their strength from an external, almighty source would consider the immense power of the 'within' and would consider that this would be 'god'. But for me, we are each our own god/goddess!
Of course this is my belief and some may not agree.
I've known fear, stared death in the eyes a couple of times and hedonist, like you, had a loved one go through major medical trauma (my husband 'died' a couple of times). Even then, way down deep, I did not go down the 'if there is a god' route. I tried to find my strength from within and, for my husband, instead of 'summoning' a god, I was conguring his inner strength. We human beings are very powerful in ourselves and we should believe in this power before relying on an external factor.
Though I know in that time I was as strong as I was able to muster, I do wish I could've been moreso. Perhaps that was borne of fear or trying to relate to/pick up on what my father/his family relied upon in their times of trouble.
Live, learn, try to be(come) strong(er).
Sometimes, it is a struggle.
I'm glad your husband came through, and for how YOU got through it
you know i never deny having a soul...its what i call my conscience. and just reading your post redrock i wonder if perhaps what people call God is actually that deep well within themselves from which they summon strength when needed, to which they ask for guidance and give thanks in acknowledgement of knowing what was needed when it was needed. to me this makes sense considering mankind has created God in his own image.
Insightful...kinda makes sense to me. I'm gonna chew on this one for awhile.
Believe me, when I was growin up, I thought the worst thing you could turn out to be was normal, So I say freaks in the most complementary way. Here's a song by a fellow freak - E.V
This is such a great conversation. Makes me wish we were all sitting together enjoying a glass of wine (or whatever ) discussing this!
For my persepctive, I consider myself agnostic, I suppose. Although, only because I don't KNOW anything for sure. I remember as a young child questioning all the religous beliefs that i was being taught because it just didn't make sense. I have faith in a lot of poeple and ideas but the concept of "god" - I like cates explanation of it being MY voice, MY conscience that is guiding and directing me not some outside source that "we" have labeled "god". I have a stronger belief in nature and our place in nature and the cycle of life. Animism is not exactly what I mean but it might be the closest to my true beliefs. Humans are not living in harmony with the natural world and I think that is why we need to seek out "god" to fill that void that we seem to be missing. It's taken me a long time to shed the religious trappings that have shaped a good portion of my life but I finally feel that I've been freed from believing in a concept that never resonated with me.
Are we getting something out of this all-encompassing trip?
Seems my preconceptions are what should have been burned...
Though I know in that time I was as strong as I was able to muster, I do wish I could've been moreso. Perhaps that was borne of fear or trying to relate to/pick up on what my father/his family relied upon in their times of trouble.
Live, learn, try to be(come) strong(er).
Sometimes, it is a struggle.
I'm glad your husband came through, and for how YOU got through it
One does what one can given the circumstances. And it definitely can be a struggle but isnt' that what we're all about? Pushing the boundaries, struggling with that but believing in ourselves, each time learning more about our capabilities, getting stronger and succeeding.
What you say is a reality for a lot of people - in times of 'need' (whatever this need may be) and when one feels too overwhelmed, one can turn to a 'helping hand' - 'god' is a common one. I'm sure if there had been a human being that you thought had the power to ensure Danny would be safe through surgery (or others said this person had the power), you would have 'prayed' to this human!
My husband came through everything with his own strength and power (and the help of doctors!). His strength also came from our daughter, me and his parents. He willed himself to live for us. It could have just as easily gone the other way. As for me, I could do no less than what my husband was doing....
.... I have a stronger belief in nature and our place in nature and the cycle of life. .... Humans are not living in harmony with the natural world .....
The logical mind has trouble going beyond what is proven and seen.
People can see and feel nature,
people can see and feel mankind...
right there to see, to touch, to know.
But what is keeping some minds from seeing and feeling God?
when this energy connects all life.
Is God and the concept only linked to religion for some?
So walls of avoidance exist... a great disconnect.
All the while the connectionof life exists between them ...
nature, mankind, God, no need to separate.
0
brianlux
Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 42,090
.... I have a stronger belief in nature and our place in nature and the cycle of life. .... Humans are not living in harmony with the natural world .....
At one with nature, at one with mankind. Ideally.
I awoke with the power out this morning (and am lucky to have it on right now- we're in for three days of big-time storm weather on the west coast) and my first thought was- crap, I have a doctors appt. this morning and no shower or heat and work to do later at home today that can't be done with the power off. My second thought was- my god, how far removed from nature I've become. I realized my life had become dependent on the grid and the industrial system. I knew I would make a poor Fijian. I wanted to start over and only know life as lived in the cycles of nature-- simple, easy, natural. How do we go back to that?
“The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.” Variously credited to Mark Twain or Edward Abbey.
But what is keeping some minds from seeing and feeling God?
Because there's no evidence.
Believe me, when I was growin up, I thought the worst thing you could turn out to be was normal, So I say freaks in the most complementary way. Here's a song by a fellow freak - E.V
Some do Brian but it must be very difficult. Completely 'unlearning' our life, our conditioning. You mentioned Gaia in another thread... How can we become part of this community (as a living organism) again? Not just the tangible aspect of mother nature but the wider 'philosophical' earth, the 'connection'.
But what is keeping some minds from seeing and feeling God?
Because there's no evidence.
Also it makes no sense.
I would also contend that modern "religion" is only about 10,000 years old. Hinduism is probably a bit older than that but because we do not have the entirety of written records we cannot know for sure. What did peoples do about religion before that time? They did not believe in a Hindu nor Buddhist nor Christian nor Muslim god. In my mind, that means they probably followed some form of an animist religion which we have moved away from since that time and it has become this organized religion that we say has truth and knowing, at least for some.
Are we getting something out of this all-encompassing trip?
Seems my preconceptions are what should have been burned...
But what is keeping some minds from seeing and feeling God?
Because there's no evidence.
Ah will you accept a miracle/ phenomenon when it comes
or leave the walls up? and denounce.
Will you allow yourself to experience what is available to you?
It depends on how much you want to learn in this life...
not talking facts, figures, or even emotions.
It is up to you how much you take with you on your journey...
why not start now? why wait til you leave this world?
But what is keeping some minds from seeing and feeling God?
Because there's no evidence.
Ah will you accept a miracle/ phenomenon when it comes
or leave the walls up? and denounce.
Will you allow yourself to experience what is available to you?
It depends on how much you want to learn in this life...
not talking facts, figures, or even emotions.
It is up to you how much you take with you on your journey...
why not start now? why wait til you leave this world?
That is common sense to me.
If I see a miracle in front of me, I will accept it. But I need evidence as to why/how it occurred. Without evidence, I don't believe it.
Believe me, when I was growin up, I thought the worst thing you could turn out to be was normal, So I say freaks in the most complementary way. Here's a song by a fellow freak - E.V
Ah will you accept a miracle/ phenomenon when it comes
or leave the walls up? and denounce.
Will you allow yourself to experience what is available to you?
It depends on how much you want to learn in this life...
not talking facts, figures, or even emotions.
It is up to you how much you take with you on your journey...
why not start now? why wait til you leave this world?
That is common sense to me.
If I see a miracle in front of me, I will accept it. But I need evidence as to why/how it occurred. Without evidence, I don't believe it.
You will accept it happened but not believe it?
I have to ponder this and try to relate it to my own experiences.
You won't deny it but will find no truth in it?
I will say sometimes the evidence is in the fact it can not be explained.
If I see a miracle in front of me, I will accept it. But I need evidence as to why/how it occurred. Without evidence, I don't believe it.
Need to think of what you would consider a 'miracle' that would warrant such awe that one would think it is 'divine'. Maybe once 'looked into', just an unusual/improbable/extraordinary phenomena.
Critical thinking is essential when it comes to 'phenomena' - not blindly accepting/believing.
If I see a miracle in front of me, I will accept it. But I need evidence as to why/how it occurred. Without evidence, I don't believe it.
Need to think of what you would consider a 'miracle' that would warrant such awe that one would think it is 'divine'. Maybe once 'looked into', just an unusual/improbable/extraordinary phenomena.
Critical thinking is essential when it comes to 'phenomena' - not blindly accepting/believing.
yes this is my thinkng too.. what do we class as a miracle? i wonder what has one person dying from a head injury after a blow where another person may just shake it off. this happened to me a few years back. i struck my head at the temple with force sustaining only a beautiful black eye. yet i hear of people who hit their heads with varying degrees of force and die as a result, even when that force seems negligible.. i ended up surmising that not only may my skull be thicker, but that the mechanics involved as well as the site of the blow came into play.. i certainly never thought it was, to speak in my vernacular, a bloody miracle i wasnt knocked out or worse.
some say birth is a miracle but to me thats just humans being arrogant. birth happens with too much frequency to be considered a miracle(for want of a better word). not to mention it is simply the possible result of a biological cycle that starts with sexual intercourse.
hear my name
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
Don't come to AMT and post much. I do like to read it though.
Reading this topic my first question is why those who don't believe in a god continue to use the honorific capital G?
I do see this is a discussion about a god and not religions.
My life experiences seem the reverse of Ps. I was indoctrinated as a youth. Now as an adult with 3 grown children I have seen the effects of allowing freedom of beliefs in my children. They have always been free to attend any type of service. 2 of them I would call Agnostic and the other is firmly Atheist.
I understand the concept of god you are presenting Pandora but think it follows more of a Buddhist philosophy. I am curious about how you celebrate this god. Did/do you attend services? Did/do you take your children to these services?
I have no problem seeing outside the box and I can see the connectivity that exists in nature. Since the beginning of man unexplained phenomena have been attributed to gods. Eventually these things were explained but the indoctrination of a higher power had already been achieved.
I have first hand seen the good and evil the human animal has done and I am not impressed. The oneness of the planet would be better served with fewer of us.
Concerning the original topic.....that's just ridiculous in a modern society.
Don't come to AMT and post much. I do like to read it though.
Reading this topic my first question is why those who don't believe in a god continue to use the honorific capital G?
I do see this is a discussion about a god and not religions.
My life experiences seem the reverse of Ps. I was indoctrinated as a youth. Now as an adult with 3 grown children I have seen the effects of allowing freedom of beliefs in my children. They have always been free to attend any type of service. 2 of them I would call Agnostic and the other is firmly Atheist.
I understand the concept of god you are presenting Pandora but think it follows more of a Buddhist philosophy. I am curious about how you celebrate this god. Did/do you attend services? Did/do you take your children to these services?
I have no problem seeing outside the box and I can see the connectivity that exists in nature. Since the beginning of man unexplained phenomena have been attributed to gods. Eventually these things were explained but the indoctrination of a higher power had already been achieved.
I have first hand seen the good and evil the human animal has done and I am not impressed. The oneness of the planet would be better served with fewer of us.
Concerning the original topic.....that's just ridiculous in a modern society.
Damn!
My boy Horos was smoking the good shit today!
:P
Take me piece by piece..... Till there aint nothing left worth taking away from me.....
If I see a miracle in front of me, I will accept it. But I need evidence as to why/how it occurred. Without evidence, I don't believe it.
Need to think of what you would consider a 'miracle' that would warrant such awe that one would think it is 'divine'. Maybe once 'looked into', just an unusual/improbable/extraordinary phenomena.
Critical thinking is essential when it comes to 'phenomena' - not blindly accepting/believing.
Exactly. A 'miracle' would probably easily be explained by science.
Believe me, when I was growin up, I thought the worst thing you could turn out to be was normal, So I say freaks in the most complementary way. Here's a song by a fellow freak - E.V
Comments
I've known fear, stared death in the eyes a couple of times and hedonist, like you, had a loved one go through major medical trauma (my husband 'died' a couple of times). Even then, way down deep, I did not go down the 'if there is a god' route. I tried to find my strength from within and, for my husband, instead of 'summoning' a god, I was conguring his inner strength. We human beings are very powerful in ourselves and we should believe in this power before relying on an external factor.
you know i never deny having a soul...its what i call my conscience. and just reading your post redrock i wonder if perhaps what people call God is actually that deep well within themselves from which they summon strength when needed, to which they ask for guidance and give thanks in acknowledgement of knowing what was needed when it was needed. to me this makes sense considering mankind has created God in his own image.
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
Easier than it sounds for many.
What is your definition of common sense? Apply it to your own.
Perhaps through understanding you can then apply it to knowing and feeling God
and the presence of God that others have experienced, leaving this to be common sense.
God was there whether you wanted this positive loving strength or not.
It is a force you and I can not shed.
You can not turn this off because you do not believe. God does not exist at your whim.
The fear I speak of does not rely on circumstance nor another human being.
Again logic applied. I am speaking of the fear that is you and I alone.
of the beings we truly are. I also hear the propaganda of religion that confines you.
God was experienced long before Earth was created. God was within us long before
we walked the Earth. Man did not create God, man created religion. You are confusing
the two. Both you and red rock were indoctrinated in religion and abolished
it and in doing so you think you have abolished God from your soul.
Our souls are far more than knowing right from wrong and making choices based on that.
Our soul connection to God is the basis of us and our path our journey together.
Of course this is my belief and one you do not agree with.
Personally, I don't believe those who get their strength from an external, almighty source would consider the immense power of the 'within' and would consider that this would be 'god'. But for me, we are each our own god/goddess!
Of course this is my belief and some may not agree.
Live, learn, try to be(come) strong(er).
Sometimes, it is a struggle.
I'm glad your husband came through, and for how YOU got through it
Why is this a law?
For my persepctive, I consider myself agnostic, I suppose. Although, only because I don't KNOW anything for sure. I remember as a young child questioning all the religous beliefs that i was being taught because it just didn't make sense. I have faith in a lot of poeple and ideas but the concept of "god" - I like cates explanation of it being MY voice, MY conscience that is guiding and directing me not some outside source that "we" have labeled "god". I have a stronger belief in nature and our place in nature and the cycle of life. Animism is not exactly what I mean but it might be the closest to my true beliefs. Humans are not living in harmony with the natural world and I think that is why we need to seek out "god" to fill that void that we seem to be missing. It's taken me a long time to shed the religious trappings that have shaped a good portion of my life but I finally feel that I've been freed from believing in a concept that never resonated with me.
Seems my preconceptions are what should have been burned...
I AM MINE
While this article doesn't comletely explain the rationale it does shed some light
http://www.kentucky.com/2011/10/29/1938427/court-upholds-kentucky-law-requiring.html
Seems my preconceptions are what should have been burned...
I AM MINE
What you say is a reality for a lot of people - in times of 'need' (whatever this need may be) and when one feels too overwhelmed, one can turn to a 'helping hand' - 'god' is a common one. I'm sure if there had been a human being that you thought had the power to ensure Danny would be safe through surgery (or others said this person had the power), you would have 'prayed' to this human!
My husband came through everything with his own strength and power (and the help of doctors!). His strength also came from our daughter, me and his parents. He willed himself to live for us. It could have just as easily gone the other way. As for me, I could do no less than what my husband was doing....
At one with nature, at one with mankind. Ideally.
People can see and feel nature,
people can see and feel mankind...
right there to see, to touch, to know.
But what is keeping some minds from seeing and feeling God?
when this energy connects all life.
Is God and the concept only linked to religion for some?
So walls of avoidance exist... a great disconnect.
All the while the connection of life exists between them ...
nature, mankind, God, no need to separate.
I awoke with the power out this morning (and am lucky to have it on right now- we're in for three days of big-time storm weather on the west coast) and my first thought was- crap, I have a doctors appt. this morning and no shower or heat and work to do later at home today that can't be done with the power off. My second thought was- my god, how far removed from nature I've become. I realized my life had become dependent on the grid and the industrial system. I knew I would make a poor Fijian. I wanted to start over and only know life as lived in the cycles of nature-- simple, easy, natural. How do we go back to that?
I would also contend that modern "religion" is only about 10,000 years old. Hinduism is probably a bit older than that but because we do not have the entirety of written records we cannot know for sure. What did peoples do about religion before that time? They did not believe in a Hindu nor Buddhist nor Christian nor Muslim god. In my mind, that means they probably followed some form of an animist religion which we have moved away from since that time and it has become this organized religion that we say has truth and knowing, at least for some.
Seems my preconceptions are what should have been burned...
I AM MINE
or leave the walls up? and denounce.
Will you allow yourself to experience what is available to you?
It depends on how much you want to learn in this life...
not talking facts, figures, or even emotions.
It is up to you how much you take with you on your journey...
why not start now? why wait til you leave this world?
That is common sense to me.
edit
I need to research better what a very smart person said awhile back
about the law though not being against the law to not believe...
I read it I guess I'm not alone though
I have to ponder this and try to relate it to my own experiences.
You won't deny it but will find no truth in it?
I will say sometimes the evidence is in the fact it can not be explained.
Need to think of what you would consider a 'miracle' that would warrant such awe that one would think it is 'divine'. Maybe once 'looked into', just an unusual/improbable/extraordinary phenomena.
Critical thinking is essential when it comes to 'phenomena' - not blindly accepting/believing.
i believe the zombie apocalypse will take care of that.
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
yes this is my thinkng too.. what do we class as a miracle? i wonder what has one person dying from a head injury after a blow where another person may just shake it off. this happened to me a few years back. i struck my head at the temple with force sustaining only a beautiful black eye. yet i hear of people who hit their heads with varying degrees of force and die as a result, even when that force seems negligible.. i ended up surmising that not only may my skull be thicker, but that the mechanics involved as well as the site of the blow came into play.. i certainly never thought it was, to speak in my vernacular, a bloody miracle i wasnt knocked out or worse.
some say birth is a miracle but to me thats just humans being arrogant. birth happens with too much frequency to be considered a miracle(for want of a better word). not to mention it is simply the possible result of a biological cycle that starts with sexual intercourse.
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
Reading this topic my first question is why those who don't believe in a god continue to use the honorific capital G?
I do see this is a discussion about a god and not religions.
My life experiences seem the reverse of Ps. I was indoctrinated as a youth. Now as an adult with 3 grown children I have seen the effects of allowing freedom of beliefs in my children. They have always been free to attend any type of service. 2 of them I would call Agnostic and the other is firmly Atheist.
I understand the concept of god you are presenting Pandora but think it follows more of a Buddhist philosophy. I am curious about how you celebrate this god. Did/do you attend services? Did/do you take your children to these services?
I have no problem seeing outside the box and I can see the connectivity that exists in nature. Since the beginning of man unexplained phenomena have been attributed to gods. Eventually these things were explained but the indoctrination of a higher power had already been achieved.
I have first hand seen the good and evil the human animal has done and I am not impressed. The oneness of the planet would be better served with fewer of us.
Concerning the original topic.....that's just ridiculous in a modern society.
My boy Horos was smoking the good shit today!
:P
Till there aint nothing left worth taking away from me.....