What I've learned on "This Moving Train"
Comments
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I'm sorry that happened to you.dancepartner wrote:Pandora; I surely can relate to being afraid to speak here. Still am. My very first posts hit that snag so I pouted and I checked out for a time. Gary Carters post, I think, was referring to this as well.
P.s. about feeling our way thru life; techno inanimate its are here to show us what it's like to exist without emotion. Mr. Roboto comes to mind.
Oh one of my first posts the nastiness went right to the bone.
I quoted one of my favorites, Jack White, and was called out for whining in the South.
And this poster was so sick of it and the South
It was obvious the bias
and the falling on deaf ears.
They were from Chicagoland 90 miles from where I was born raised and lived for 35 years.
Yet without thought that person intended to insult me without even knowing me.
That was a real lesson on the fools we find.0 -
There should be no "fear" of speaking...here, of all places.
Speak loud, speak honestly, speak for yourself, speak without childlike tantrums...y'know, basic shit
What happens in these forums isn't so different from what occurs in everyday life; you have those with bias, forever angry! Those fairly openminded...those in between. All colors.
We're all learning, I think - or trying to, anyway.0 -
...hedonist wrote:There should be no "fear" of speaking...here, of all places.
Speak loud, speak honestly, speak for yourself, speak without childlike tantrums...y'know, basic shit
What happens in these forums isn't so different from what occurs in everyday life; you have those with bias, forever angry! Those fairly openminded...those in between. All colors.
We're all learning, I think - or trying to, anyway.
ADD:
People should understand that no one is going to change anyone's minds. That is NOT the intent. And people need to understand, there is not 'Winning' a debate in which subjective viewpoints are expressed.
Anyone one that thinks they can 'win' a debate by changing someone's mind... really needs to go over and 'win' the debate on which picture of Eddie is the sexiest.
The purpose of a debate is to bring truths and facts to support WHY your opinion is formed as such. For example, when debating about the Presidency... bring out TRUTHS backed with FACTUAL data to dispell rumors, half-truths and outright lies people find on the Internet and Television/Radio.
The only thing people should be afraid of is getting their arguement/point they get off of television or a clearly biased website... ripped to shreds by truth and fact.Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
Hail, Hail!!!0 -
Cosmo; hmm. I've got plenty of things I really want to do in my short time on this ol' planet, so when I take time to express an opinion I'm passionate about, it's because I DO want others to think more expansively about same said topic and that just maybe - agree. So, I guess I'm not sure why you express yours?0
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...dancepartner wrote:Cosmo; hmm. I've got plenty of things I really want to do in my short time on this ol' planet, so when I take time to express an opinion I'm passionate about, it's because I DO want others to think more expansively about same said topic and that just maybe - agree. So, I guess I'm not sure why you express yours?
You can be passionate about things... that is great. But why feel the urge to dissuade someone of what they are passionate about? I don't. I just lay it out there... like it or not, that's what it is. I will provide what I can to fortify my thoughts and reasoning... but, I really don't expect anyone to take on my opinions or beliefs. I can and will counter any point you have... if it does not make reasonable sense to me. Doesn't mean i am trying to dissuade you... i'm merely telling you I don't feel the same way and why I don't feel that way.
That is what debate is.. the sharing of ideas. As an example, There is no one real answer to which is Pearl Jam's greatest song. It is subjective to the person and not taken as an absolute truth. There are a myriad of varying factors, such as emotional connections you have to the song... at a place in YOUR life... that I can never fully comprehend. So, I simply accept your subjective answer to whatever song you select... for you. The same way I would express to you what my song is... i don't expect you to agree, because my variables to not fit your equation.Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
Hail, Hail!!!0 -
You're a good man, Cosmo. I suspect we see some things not necessarily eye to eye, but I'd have you in my home again anytime.
As to greatest song?
Well hell...pretty sure it's obvious
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U68TnjHz ... re=related
sidewalks, cigarettes, and scenes......whoa!0 -
I like what you've said here. And I agree with you on greatest song as wellhedonist wrote:There should be no "fear" of speaking...here, of all places.
Speak loud, speak honestly, speak for yourself, speak without childlike tantrums...y'know, basic shit
What happens in these forums isn't so different from what occurs in everyday life; you have those with bias, forever angry! Those fairly openminded...those in between. All colors.
We're all learning, I think - or trying to, anyway.
As far as emotions/feelings vs. intellect/fact...I think both are necessary. Ideally there would be a balance between the two. We're each going to lean more one way or the other...which is cool...it's just how we're wired. Feelings can be strong motivators...anger, fear, sadness can make us passionate to make a change....but they can also be blinders. It's really important to know what we're feeling and why...and to understand that just because we or someone we know had a particular experience, that experience may not necessarily apply to everyone else. There are always different factors at play, no two situations are alike. That's where backing up the argument with facts is important. That's not to say that personal experiences and anecdotes aren't relevant...but they're just one person's experience and can't be generalized to everyone. I have been challenged and called out on here at times, and I appreciate being forced to think more about my opinions or argument on a topic, especially when it's done in a way in which I can actually hear the message.
"I need your strength for me to be strong...I need your love to feel loved"0 -
Actually intimidation is the name of the game for some on MT...
perhaps that feels empowering to them. Perhaps that's the way they behave in real life.
Perhaps it is immaturity, lack of living the golden rule, perhaps it's just bully and jag...
Those who fear can ignore that and come and speak their minds though
because their are some fair minded people here that want to listen and learn.
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:thumbup:comebackgirl wrote:I have been challenged and called out on here at times, and I appreciate being forced to think more about my opinions or argument on a topic, especially when it's done in a way in which I can actually hear the message.0 -
...comebackgirl wrote:As far as emotions/feelings vs. intellect/fact...I think both are necessary. Ideally there would be a balance between the two. We're each going to lean more one way or the other...which is cool...it's just how we're wired. Feelings can be strong motivators...anger, fear, sadness can make us passionate to make a change....but they can also be blinders. It's really important to know what we're feeling and why...and to understand that just because we or someone we know had a particular experience, that experience may not necessarily apply to everyone else. There are always different factors at play, no two situations are alike. That's where backing up the argument with facts is important. That's not to say that personal experiences and anecdotes aren't relevant...but they're just one person's experience and can't be generalized to everyone. I have been challenged and called out on here at times, and I appreciate being forced to think more about my opinions or argument on a topic, especially when it's done in a way in which I can actually hear the message.
I also think that there should be a balance in life... emotional and intellectual. That is the compositional aspects of life.
Like the Pearl Jam song example... it is subjective. There is no one correct answer to the question, "What is the greatest Pearl Jam song?". Everyone is going to answer with something different. Some people will undoubtedly agree, but not for the same exact reasons.
Example: I tend to favor the song, 'Daughter'. Not necessarily for any message the song may carry, but because it invokes a specific time in my life when I would play 'vs.' in my piece of crap VW Beetle up 101 North to see a gal that i loved very much, at that time. The song reminds me of the winding path through those sunlighted amber rolling hills, dotted with mighty, old California Great Oaks that lead me to her face. People may agree with the song 'Daughter', but not for those same reasons as me.
That is an emotional response that is tempered with intellectual reasoning of why I feel this way. So, it does not always mean one or the other... sometimes, it is both.Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
Hail, Hail!!!0 -
I've learned real humor is great on AMT ...
not the making fun of others or at the expense of feelings or with motive to humiliate
but honest good humor. We have some witty folk on all the forums
but it is very welcome here to lighten.
That really speaks to life in general and how humor is the
very best distraction to problems and the very best healer to hurts.0 -
That is such a great example. Two people may pick the same song, but maybe for one person it is a reminder of a great time in their life, while another might identify with the lyrics, and someone else may connect with the beat of the music. We all put a bit of ourselves in what we see...so our perceptions are reflections of ourselves to a certain extent, both on this forum and in the rest of our lives. That's why 2 people can look at the exact same thing (whether it's a post or something else) and interpret it completely differently. And now you've taken me back to my own memories of 'Daughter'Cosmo wrote:
...comebackgirl wrote:As far as emotions/feelings vs. intellect/fact...I think both are necessary. Ideally there would be a balance between the two. We're each going to lean more one way or the other...which is cool...it's just how we're wired. Feelings can be strong motivators...anger, fear, sadness can make us passionate to make a change....but they can also be blinders. It's really important to know what we're feeling and why...and to understand that just because we or someone we know had a particular experience, that experience may not necessarily apply to everyone else. There are always different factors at play, no two situations are alike. That's where backing up the argument with facts is important. That's not to say that personal experiences and anecdotes aren't relevant...but they're just one person's experience and can't be generalized to everyone. I have been challenged and called out on here at times, and I appreciate being forced to think more about my opinions or argument on a topic, especially when it's done in a way in which I can actually hear the message.
I also think that there should be a balance in life... emotional and intellectual. That is the compositional aspects of life.
Like the Pearl Jam song example... it is subjective. There is no one correct answer to the question, "What is the greatest Pearl Jam song?". Everyone is going to answer with something different. Some people will undoubtedly agree, but not for the same exact reasons.
Example: I tend to favor the song, 'Daughter'. Not necessarily for any message the song may carry, but because it invokes a specific time in my life when I would play 'vs.' in my piece of crap VW Beetle up 101 North to see a gal that i loved very much, at that time. The song reminds me of the winding path through those sunlighted amber rolling hills, dotted with mighty, old California Great Oaks that lead me to her face. People may agree with the song 'Daughter', but not for those same reasons as me.
That is an emotional response that is tempered with intellectual reasoning of why I feel this way. So, it does not always mean one or the other... sometimes, it is both. Thank you!
"I need your strength for me to be strong...I need your love to feel loved"0 -
...comebackgirl wrote:That is such a great example. Two people may pick the same song, but maybe for one person it is a reminder of a great time in their life, while another might identify with the lyrics, and someone else may connect with the beat of the music. We all put a bit of ourselves in what we see...so our perceptions are reflections of ourselves to a certain extent, both on this forum and in the rest of our lives. That's why 2 people can look at the exact same thing (whether it's a post or something else) and interpret it completely differently. And now you've taken me back to my own memories of 'Daughter' Thank you!
Precisely. That is why there in no 'winning' a debate on religion, for example. On topics such as Gun Control, there is hard data that can be manipulated and interpreted to support either side of the debate.
I position is to take as an objective view as I can and make the best informed decision possible... which is always going to be tempered with emotional responses that sway me towards one side. That is part of what makes us human... the ability to reason, using the tools of analysis and logic to arrive at truth. With religion, it is purely subjective because there is no objective truth.
When discussing topics, such as religion, the best way I have found to deal with it is to express my viewpoint and accept varying viewpoints. Because a topic such as religion... no one knows. We ALL know that no one knows. We believe... yes. Know? Nope.Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
Hail, Hail!!!0 -
Cosmo wrote:
...comebackgirl wrote:That is such a great example. Two people may pick the same song, but maybe for one person it is a reminder of a great time in their life, while another might identify with the lyrics, and someone else may connect with the beat of the music. We all put a bit of ourselves in what we see...so our perceptions are reflections of ourselves to a certain extent, both on this forum and in the rest of our lives. That's why 2 people can look at the exact same thing (whether it's a post or something else) and interpret it completely differently. And now you've taken me back to my own memories of 'Daughter' Thank you!
Precisely. That is why there in no 'winning' a debate on religion, for example. On topics such as Gun Control, there is hard data that can be manipulated and interpreted to support either side of the debate.
I position is to take as an objective view as I can and make the best informed decision possible... which is always going to be tempered with emotional responses that sway me towards one side. That is part of what makes us human... the ability to reason, using the tools of analysis and logic to arrive at truth. With religion, it is purely subjective because there is no objective truth.
When discussing topics, such as religion, the best way I have found to deal with it is to express my viewpoint and accept varying viewpoints. Because a topic such as religion... no one knows. We ALL know that no one knows. We believe... yes. Know? Nope. are you baiting me again?
How can you be so sure someone does not know?
We know you don't know but that does not mean everyone does not know God.
I understand though this is your belief or do you know it?
I understand this makes you feel more comfortable about your where you sit with God
at least this is what you have expressed numerous times.
But remember there are no absolutes, not always, nor never, there is some and sometimes.
I've learned here on the AMT that some posters love others no matter what they know or believe.
They are truly accepting.0 -
That's probably one of the things I like best about this forum - reading other people's views on some of the topics you mentioned...often things I haven't considered or thought about in a certain way before. Some of it will resonate and stick with me...some of it I'll let go. I like learning about how other people view the world and the things that have influenced and shaped that perspective. I've learned that I can learn a lot from people even if our views on things are different.Cosmo wrote:
...comebackgirl wrote:That is such a great example. Two people may pick the same song, but maybe for one person it is a reminder of a great time in their life, while another might identify with the lyrics, and someone else may connect with the beat of the music. We all put a bit of ourselves in what we see...so our perceptions are reflections of ourselves to a certain extent, both on this forum and in the rest of our lives. That's why 2 people can look at the exact same thing (whether it's a post or something else) and interpret it completely differently. And now you've taken me back to my own memories of 'Daughter' Thank you!
Precisely. That is why there in no 'winning' a debate on religion, for example. On topics such as Gun Control, there is hard data that can be manipulated and interpreted to support either side of the debate.
I position is to take as an objective view as I can and make the best informed decision possible... which is always going to be tempered with emotional responses that sway me towards one side. That is part of what makes us human... the ability to reason, using the tools of analysis and logic to arrive at truth. With religion, it is purely subjective because there is no objective truth.
When discussing topics, such as religion, the best way I have found to deal with it is to express my viewpoint and accept varying viewpoints. Because a topic such as religion... no one knows. We ALL know that no one knows. We believe... yes. Know? Nope.
"I need your strength for me to be strong...I need your love to feel loved"0 -
...comebackgirl wrote:That's probably one of the things I like best about this forum - reading other people's views on some of the topics you mentioned...often things I haven't considered or thought about in a certain way before. Some of it will resonate and stick with me...some of it I'll let go. I like learning about how other people view the world and the things that have influenced and shaped that perspective. I've learned that I can learn a lot from people even if our views on things are different.
My viewpoint is that people do themselves a great disservice by sheltering themselves only in opinions that they agree with. Like only listening to or watching only those broadcasts that they believe to be true... by only talking hot topic issues with like minded people in an agree-fest... by writing off dissenting opinions or views as stupid, evil or destructive. What happens is they create an alternative reality that they believe actually exists. When reality comes crashing down on them, instead of re-thinking their position, they typically find fault with the opposition group. If you read the Drudge Report... read the Huffington Post, too (and vice versa). And try doing it from an objective viewpoint. Failing to do so, you are basically brainwashing yourself into believing the world should be as you see it... because everyone around you believes it... therefore, the majority of people must also believe it.Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
Hail, Hail!!!0 -
This reminds me of some (so-called) celebrities who surround themselves with yes-men; makes them think they're always right, insulates them from reality.Cosmo wrote:...
My viewpoint is that people do themselves a great disservice by sheltering themselves only in opinions that they agree with. Like only listening to or watching only those broadcasts that they believe to be true... by only talking hot topic issues with like minded people in an agree-fest... by writing off dissenting opinions or views as stupid, evil or destructive. What happens is they create an alternative reality that they believe actually exists. When reality comes crashing down on them, instead of re-thinking their position, they typically find fault with the opposition group. If you read the Drudge Report... read the Huffington Post, too (and vice versa). And try doing it from an objective viewpoint. Failing to do so, you are basically brainwashing yourself into believing the world should be as you see it... because everyone around you believes it... therefore, the majority of people must also believe it.
"Yes, Lady Gaga, those shoes really DO look good on you! Comfortable too."
"Sure, Madonna, you look great in that too-tight corset. And of COURSE you should flash your ass to your audience!"
Sometimes people are only too happy to keep their blinders on, perhaps out of fear of what they'd really see - have to face - without them.0 -
That makes a lot of sense. Most of us probably fall somewhere on the continuum in terms of our political views...not necessarily all the way to the right or left, and our position may change depending on the issue and over time. Somebody on "the other side" might have a really good idea, but would we automatically dismiss it because we consider them the opposition? That's why I don't like the dismissing of people as a liberal/democrat/blue vs. conservative/republican/red. Sometimes someone expresses a view and they're automatically categorized as one or the other and then the listener might be quick to dismiss what else they have to say. We've already formed our opinion about their opinion. Does it have to be us vs. them? None of us is all-knowing. I think we just sometimes have different priorities and different ideas about how to address those priorities.Cosmo wrote:
...comebackgirl wrote:That's probably one of the things I like best about this forum - reading other people's views on some of the topics you mentioned...often things I haven't considered or thought about in a certain way before. Some of it will resonate and stick with me...some of it I'll let go. I like learning about how other people view the world and the things that have influenced and shaped that perspective. I've learned that I can learn a lot from people even if our views on things are different.
My viewpoint is that people do themselves a great disservice by sheltering themselves only in opinions that they agree with. Like only listening to or watching only those broadcasts that they believe to be true... by only talking hot topic issues with like minded people in an agree-fest... by writing off dissenting opinions or views as stupid, evil or destructive. What happens is they create an alternative reality that they believe actually exists. When reality comes crashing down on them, instead of re-thinking their position, they typically find fault with the opposition group. If you read the Drudge Report... read the Huffington Post, too (and vice versa). And try doing it from an objective viewpoint. Failing to do so, you are basically brainwashing yourself into believing the world should be as you see it... because everyone around you believes it... therefore, the majority of people must also believe it.
Good point hedonist. It can be jarring to have those blinders knocked off...but sometimes absolutely necessary. However I do plan to surround myself only with people who do tell me they like my shoeshedonist wrote:This reminds me of some (so-called) celebrities who surround themselves with yes-men; makes them think they're always right, insulates them from reality.
"Yes, Lady Gaga, those shoes really DO look good on you! Comfortable too."
"Sure, Madonna, you look great in that too-tight corset. And of COURSE you should flash your ass to your audience!"
Sometimes people are only too happy to keep their blinders on, perhaps out of fear of what they'd really see - have to face - without them.
"I need your strength for me to be strong...I need your love to feel loved"0 -
I've learned that I agree with most of you on social issues but not on economic issues.0
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Okay you guys have me laughing. And also thinking, musing. This thread went awry, for my intention anyway, but it has given you (I think) a needed dialogue. I've been keeping up, feel like I'm getting to know you all, a nibble at a time. No, probably won't surround myself with people who like my shoes,
but yeah, anyone who likes my landscaping is a shoe-in for life!
I'm musing though, realizing its not my place to try and redirect this thread back to the question I posed (several times) but rather - simply enjoy where you guys have taken it. So yeah, its been my privilege.
However, next post - I'm gonna be more specific! 0
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