Pandora; I surely can relate to being afraid to speak here. Still am. My very first posts hit that snag so I pouted and I checked out for a time. Gary Carters post, I think, was referring to this as well.
P.s. about feeling our way thru life; techno inanimate its are here to show us what it's like to exist without emotion. Mr. Roboto comes to mind.
I'm sorry that happened to you.
Oh one of my first posts the nastiness went right to the bone.
I quoted one of my favorites, Jack White, and was called out for whining in the South.
And this poster was so sick of it and the South It was obvious the bias
and the falling on deaf ears.
They were from Chicagoland 90 miles from where I was born raised and lived for 35 years.
Yet without thought that person intended to insult me without even knowing me.
That was a real lesson on the fools we find.
There should be no "fear" of speaking...here, of all places.
Speak loud, speak honestly, speak for yourself, speak without childlike tantrums...y'know, basic shit
What happens in these forums isn't so different from what occurs in everyday life; you have those with bias, forever angry! Those fairly openminded...those in between. All colors.
We're all learning, I think - or trying to, anyway.
There should be no "fear" of speaking...here, of all places.
Speak loud, speak honestly, speak for yourself, speak without childlike tantrums...y'know, basic shit
What happens in these forums isn't so different from what occurs in everyday life; you have those with bias, forever angry! Those fairly openminded...those in between. All colors.
We're all learning, I think - or trying to, anyway.
...
ADD:
People should understand that no one is going to change anyone's minds. That is NOT the intent. And people need to understand, there is not 'Winning' a debate in which subjective viewpoints are expressed.
Anyone one that thinks they can 'win' a debate by changing someone's mind... really needs to go over and 'win' the debate on which picture of Eddie is the sexiest.
The purpose of a debate is to bring truths and facts to support WHY your opinion is formed as such. For example, when debating about the Presidency... bring out TRUTHS backed with FACTUAL data to dispell rumors, half-truths and outright lies people find on the Internet and Television/Radio.
The only thing people should be afraid of is getting their arguement/point they get off of television or a clearly biased website... ripped to shreds by truth and fact.
Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
Hail, Hail!!!
Cosmo; hmm. I've got plenty of things I really want to do in my short time on this ol' planet, so when I take time to express an opinion I'm passionate about, it's because I DO want others to think more expansively about same said topic and that just maybe - agree. So, I guess I'm not sure why you express yours?
Cosmo; hmm. I've got plenty of things I really want to do in my short time on this ol' planet, so when I take time to express an opinion I'm passionate about, it's because I DO want others to think more expansively about same said topic and that just maybe - agree. So, I guess I'm not sure why you express yours?
...
You can be passionate about things... that is great. But why feel the urge to dissuade someone of what they are passionate about? I don't. I just lay it out there... like it or not, that's what it is. I will provide what I can to fortify my thoughts and reasoning... but, I really don't expect anyone to take on my opinions or beliefs. I can and will counter any point you have... if it does not make reasonable sense to me. Doesn't mean i am trying to dissuade you... i'm merely telling you I don't feel the same way and why I don't feel that way.
That is what debate is.. the sharing of ideas. As an example, There is no one real answer to which is Pearl Jam's greatest song. It is subjective to the person and not taken as an absolute truth. There are a myriad of varying factors, such as emotional connections you have to the song... at a place in YOUR life... that I can never fully comprehend. So, I simply accept your subjective answer to whatever song you select... for you. The same way I would express to you what my song is... i don't expect you to agree, because my variables to not fit your equation.
Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
Hail, Hail!!!
There should be no "fear" of speaking...here, of all places.
Speak loud, speak honestly, speak for yourself, speak without childlike tantrums...y'know, basic shit
What happens in these forums isn't so different from what occurs in everyday life; you have those with bias, forever angry! Those fairly openminded...those in between. All colors.
We're all learning, I think - or trying to, anyway.
I like what you've said here. And I agree with you on greatest song as well
As far as emotions/feelings vs. intellect/fact...I think both are necessary. Ideally there would be a balance between the two. We're each going to lean more one way or the other...which is cool...it's just how we're wired. Feelings can be strong motivators...anger, fear, sadness can make us passionate to make a change....but they can also be blinders. It's really important to know what we're feeling and why...and to understand that just because we or someone we know had a particular experience, that experience may not necessarily apply to everyone else. There are always different factors at play, no two situations are alike. That's where backing up the argument with facts is important. That's not to say that personal experiences and anecdotes aren't relevant...but they're just one person's experience and can't be generalized to everyone. I have been challenged and called out on here at times, and I appreciate being forced to think more about my opinions or argument on a topic, especially when it's done in a way in which I can actually hear the message.
"I need your strength for me to be strong...I need your love to feel loved"
Actually intimidation is the name of the game for some on MT...
perhaps that feels empowering to them. Perhaps that's the way they behave in real life.
Perhaps it is immaturity, lack of living the golden rule, perhaps it's just bully and jag...
Those who fear can ignore that and come and speak their minds though
because their are some fair minded people here that want to listen and learn.
I have been challenged and called out on here at times, and I appreciate being forced to think more about my opinions or argument on a topic, especially when it's done in a way in which I can actually hear the message.
As far as emotions/feelings vs. intellect/fact...I think both are necessary. Ideally there would be a balance between the two. We're each going to lean more one way or the other...which is cool...it's just how we're wired. Feelings can be strong motivators...anger, fear, sadness can make us passionate to make a change....but they can also be blinders. It's really important to know what we're feeling and why...and to understand that just because we or someone we know had a particular experience, that experience may not necessarily apply to everyone else. There are always different factors at play, no two situations are alike. That's where backing up the argument with facts is important. That's not to say that personal experiences and anecdotes aren't relevant...but they're just one person's experience and can't be generalized to everyone. I have been challenged and called out on here at times, and I appreciate being forced to think more about my opinions or argument on a topic, especially when it's done in a way in which I can actually hear the message.
...
I also think that there should be a balance in life... emotional and intellectual. That is the compositional aspects of life.
Like the Pearl Jam song example... it is subjective. There is no one correct answer to the question, "What is the greatest Pearl Jam song?". Everyone is going to answer with something different. Some people will undoubtedly agree, but not for the same exact reasons.
Example: I tend to favor the song, 'Daughter'. Not necessarily for any message the song may carry, but because it invokes a specific time in my life when I would play 'vs.' in my piece of crap VW Beetle up 101 North to see a gal that i loved very much, at that time. The song reminds me of the winding path through those sunlighted amber rolling hills, dotted with mighty, old California Great Oaks that lead me to her face. People may agree with the song 'Daughter', but not for those same reasons as me.
That is an emotional response that is tempered with intellectual reasoning of why I feel this way. So, it does not always mean one or the other... sometimes, it is both.
Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
Hail, Hail!!!
I've learned real humor is great on AMT ...
not the making fun of others or at the expense of feelings or with motive to humiliate
but honest good humor. We have some witty folk on all the forums
but it is very welcome here to lighten.
That really speaks to life in general and how humor is the
very best distraction to problems and the very best healer to hurts.
As far as emotions/feelings vs. intellect/fact...I think both are necessary. Ideally there would be a balance between the two. We're each going to lean more one way or the other...which is cool...it's just how we're wired. Feelings can be strong motivators...anger, fear, sadness can make us passionate to make a change....but they can also be blinders. It's really important to know what we're feeling and why...and to understand that just because we or someone we know had a particular experience, that experience may not necessarily apply to everyone else. There are always different factors at play, no two situations are alike. That's where backing up the argument with facts is important. That's not to say that personal experiences and anecdotes aren't relevant...but they're just one person's experience and can't be generalized to everyone. I have been challenged and called out on here at times, and I appreciate being forced to think more about my opinions or argument on a topic, especially when it's done in a way in which I can actually hear the message.
...
I also think that there should be a balance in life... emotional and intellectual. That is the compositional aspects of life.
Like the Pearl Jam song example... it is subjective. There is no one correct answer to the question, "What is the greatest Pearl Jam song?". Everyone is going to answer with something different. Some people will undoubtedly agree, but not for the same exact reasons.
Example: I tend to favor the song, 'Daughter'. Not necessarily for any message the song may carry, but because it invokes a specific time in my life when I would play 'vs.' in my piece of crap VW Beetle up 101 North to see a gal that i loved very much, at that time. The song reminds me of the winding path through those sunlighted amber rolling hills, dotted with mighty, old California Great Oaks that lead me to her face. People may agree with the song 'Daughter', but not for those same reasons as me.
That is an emotional response that is tempered with intellectual reasoning of why I feel this way. So, it does not always mean one or the other... sometimes, it is both.
That is such a great example. Two people may pick the same song, but maybe for one person it is a reminder of a great time in their life, while another might identify with the lyrics, and someone else may connect with the beat of the music. We all put a bit of ourselves in what we see...so our perceptions are reflections of ourselves to a certain extent, both on this forum and in the rest of our lives. That's why 2 people can look at the exact same thing (whether it's a post or something else) and interpret it completely differently. And now you've taken me back to my own memories of 'Daughter' Thank you!
"I need your strength for me to be strong...I need your love to feel loved"
That is such a great example. Two people may pick the same song, but maybe for one person it is a reminder of a great time in their life, while another might identify with the lyrics, and someone else may connect with the beat of the music. We all put a bit of ourselves in what we see...so our perceptions are reflections of ourselves to a certain extent, both on this forum and in the rest of our lives. That's why 2 people can look at the exact same thing (whether it's a post or something else) and interpret it completely differently. And now you've taken me back to my own memories of 'Daughter' Thank you!
...
Precisely. That is why there in no 'winning' a debate on religion, for example. On topics such as Gun Control, there is hard data that can be manipulated and interpreted to support either side of the debate.
I position is to take as an objective view as I can and make the best informed decision possible... which is always going to be tempered with emotional responses that sway me towards one side. That is part of what makes us human... the ability to reason, using the tools of analysis and logic to arrive at truth. With religion, it is purely subjective because there is no objective truth.
When discussing topics, such as religion, the best way I have found to deal with it is to express my viewpoint and accept varying viewpoints. Because a topic such as religion... no one knows. We ALL know that no one knows. We believe... yes. Know? Nope.
Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
Hail, Hail!!!
That is such a great example. Two people may pick the same song, but maybe for one person it is a reminder of a great time in their life, while another might identify with the lyrics, and someone else may connect with the beat of the music. We all put a bit of ourselves in what we see...so our perceptions are reflections of ourselves to a certain extent, both on this forum and in the rest of our lives. That's why 2 people can look at the exact same thing (whether it's a post or something else) and interpret it completely differently. And now you've taken me back to my own memories of 'Daughter' Thank you!
...
Precisely. That is why there in no 'winning' a debate on religion, for example. On topics such as Gun Control, there is hard data that can be manipulated and interpreted to support either side of the debate.
I position is to take as an objective view as I can and make the best informed decision possible... which is always going to be tempered with emotional responses that sway me towards one side. That is part of what makes us human... the ability to reason, using the tools of analysis and logic to arrive at truth. With religion, it is purely subjective because there is no objective truth.
When discussing topics, such as religion, the best way I have found to deal with it is to express my viewpoint and accept varying viewpoints. Because a topic such as religion... no one knows. We ALL know that no one knows. We believe... yes. Know? Nope.
are you baiting me again?
How can you be so sure someone does not know?
We know you don't know but that does not mean everyone does not know God.
I understand though this is your belief or do you know it?
I understand this makes you feel more comfortable about your where you sit with God
at least this is what you have expressed numerous times.
But remember there are no absolutes, not always, nor never, there is some and sometimes.
I've learned here on the AMT that some posters love others no matter what they know or believe.
They are truly accepting.
That is such a great example. Two people may pick the same song, but maybe for one person it is a reminder of a great time in their life, while another might identify with the lyrics, and someone else may connect with the beat of the music. We all put a bit of ourselves in what we see...so our perceptions are reflections of ourselves to a certain extent, both on this forum and in the rest of our lives. That's why 2 people can look at the exact same thing (whether it's a post or something else) and interpret it completely differently. And now you've taken me back to my own memories of 'Daughter' Thank you!
...
Precisely. That is why there in no 'winning' a debate on religion, for example. On topics such as Gun Control, there is hard data that can be manipulated and interpreted to support either side of the debate.
I position is to take as an objective view as I can and make the best informed decision possible... which is always going to be tempered with emotional responses that sway me towards one side. That is part of what makes us human... the ability to reason, using the tools of analysis and logic to arrive at truth. With religion, it is purely subjective because there is no objective truth.
When discussing topics, such as religion, the best way I have found to deal with it is to express my viewpoint and accept varying viewpoints. Because a topic such as religion... no one knows. We ALL know that no one knows. We believe... yes. Know? Nope.
That's probably one of the things I like best about this forum - reading other people's views on some of the topics you mentioned...often things I haven't considered or thought about in a certain way before. Some of it will resonate and stick with me...some of it I'll let go. I like learning about how other people view the world and the things that have influenced and shaped that perspective. I've learned that I can learn a lot from people even if our views on things are different.
"I need your strength for me to be strong...I need your love to feel loved"
That's probably one of the things I like best about this forum - reading other people's views on some of the topics you mentioned...often things I haven't considered or thought about in a certain way before. Some of it will resonate and stick with me...some of it I'll let go. I like learning about how other people view the world and the things that have influenced and shaped that perspective. I've learned that I can learn a lot from people even if our views on things are different.
...
My viewpoint is that people do themselves a great disservice by sheltering themselves only in opinions that they agree with. Like only listening to or watching only those broadcasts that they believe to be true... by only talking hot topic issues with like minded people in an agree-fest... by writing off dissenting opinions or views as stupid, evil or destructive. What happens is they create an alternative reality that they believe actually exists. When reality comes crashing down on them, instead of re-thinking their position, they typically find fault with the opposition group. If you read the Drudge Report... read the Huffington Post, too (and vice versa). And try doing it from an objective viewpoint. Failing to do so, you are basically brainwashing yourself into believing the world should be as you see it... because everyone around you believes it... therefore, the majority of people must also believe it.
Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
Hail, Hail!!!
...
My viewpoint is that people do themselves a great disservice by sheltering themselves only in opinions that they agree with. Like only listening to or watching only those broadcasts that they believe to be true... by only talking hot topic issues with like minded people in an agree-fest... by writing off dissenting opinions or views as stupid, evil or destructive. What happens is they create an alternative reality that they believe actually exists. When reality comes crashing down on them, instead of re-thinking their position, they typically find fault with the opposition group. If you read the Drudge Report... read the Huffington Post, too (and vice versa). And try doing it from an objective viewpoint. Failing to do so, you are basically brainwashing yourself into believing the world should be as you see it... because everyone around you believes it... therefore, the majority of people must also believe it.
This reminds me of some (so-called) celebrities who surround themselves with yes-men; makes them think they're always right, insulates them from reality.
"Yes, Lady Gaga, those shoes really DO look good on you! Comfortable too."
"Sure, Madonna, you look great in that too-tight corset. And of COURSE you should flash your ass to your audience!"
Sometimes people are only too happy to keep their blinders on, perhaps out of fear of what they'd really see - have to face - without them.
That's probably one of the things I like best about this forum - reading other people's views on some of the topics you mentioned...often things I haven't considered or thought about in a certain way before. Some of it will resonate and stick with me...some of it I'll let go. I like learning about how other people view the world and the things that have influenced and shaped that perspective. I've learned that I can learn a lot from people even if our views on things are different.
...
My viewpoint is that people do themselves a great disservice by sheltering themselves only in opinions that they agree with. Like only listening to or watching only those broadcasts that they believe to be true... by only talking hot topic issues with like minded people in an agree-fest... by writing off dissenting opinions or views as stupid, evil or destructive. What happens is they create an alternative reality that they believe actually exists. When reality comes crashing down on them, instead of re-thinking their position, they typically find fault with the opposition group. If you read the Drudge Report... read the Huffington Post, too (and vice versa). And try doing it from an objective viewpoint. Failing to do so, you are basically brainwashing yourself into believing the world should be as you see it... because everyone around you believes it... therefore, the majority of people must also believe it.
That makes a lot of sense. Most of us probably fall somewhere on the continuum in terms of our political views...not necessarily all the way to the right or left, and our position may change depending on the issue and over time. Somebody on "the other side" might have a really good idea, but would we automatically dismiss it because we consider them the opposition? That's why I don't like the dismissing of people as a liberal/democrat/blue vs. conservative/republican/red. Sometimes someone expresses a view and they're automatically categorized as one or the other and then the listener might be quick to dismiss what else they have to say. We've already formed our opinion about their opinion. Does it have to be us vs. them? None of us is all-knowing. I think we just sometimes have different priorities and different ideas about how to address those priorities.
This reminds me of some (so-called) celebrities who surround themselves with yes-men; makes them think they're always right, insulates them from reality.
"Yes, Lady Gaga, those shoes really DO look good on you! Comfortable too."
"Sure, Madonna, you look great in that too-tight corset. And of COURSE you should flash your ass to your audience!"
Sometimes people are only too happy to keep their blinders on, perhaps out of fear of what they'd really see - have to face - without them.
Good point hedonist. It can be jarring to have those blinders knocked off...but sometimes absolutely necessary. However I do plan to surround myself only with people who do tell me they like my shoes
"I need your strength for me to be strong...I need your love to feel loved"
Okay you guys have me laughing. And also thinking, musing. This thread went awry, for my intention anyway, but it has given you (I think) a needed dialogue. I've been keeping up, feel like I'm getting to know you all, a nibble at a time. No, probably won't surround myself with people who like my shoes, but yeah, anyone who likes my landscaping is a shoe-in for life!
I'm musing though, realizing its not my place to try and redirect this thread back to the question I posed (several times) but rather - simply enjoy where you guys have taken it. So yeah, its been my privilege.
However, next post - I'm gonna be more specific!
Okay you guys have me laughing. And also thinking, musing. This thread went awry, for my intention anyway, but it has given you (I think) a needed dialogue. I've been keeping up, feel like I'm getting to know you all, a nibble at a time. No, probably won't surround myself with people who like my shoes, but yeah, anyone who likes my landscaping is a shoe-in for life!
I'm musing though, realizing its not my place to try and redirect this thread back to the question I posed (several times) but rather - simply enjoy where you guys have taken it. So yeah, its been my privilege.
However, next post - I'm gonna be more specific!
Cosmo, your thoughts about using our minds remind me that the other day I watched "Idiocracy". It's an incredible dumb movie that makes a good point (although a much shorter version would have worked for me- maybe 10 minutes ). But yeah, it's just too easy to grab a sound bite, Google a few "facts", stick them in the micro wave and , voila, an opinion.
Dancepartner- yeah, it's easy to jaded or even bitter at times and we all do that here but hopefully we're learning and it's good to have a fresh voice here such as yours. And a good well-aged port on a cold day- oh yeah!
granted it was a movie about incredible dumbness but are you sure idiocracy is an incredibly dumb movie?
p.s. i dont own a microwave.
hear my name
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
Okay you guys have me laughing. And also thinking, musing. This thread went awry, for my intention anyway, but it has given you (I think) a needed dialogue. I've been keeping up, feel like I'm getting to know you all, a nibble at a time. No, probably won't surround myself with people who like my shoes, but yeah, anyone who likes my landscaping is a shoe-in for life!
I'm musing though, realizing its not my place to try and redirect this thread back to the question I posed (several times) but rather - simply enjoy where you guys have taken it. So yeah, its been my privilege.
However, next post - I'm gonna be more specific!
CBG has done it again
You love hearing about my shoes :wave:
"I need your strength for me to be strong...I need your love to feel loved"
I posted a video about irresponsibility in another thread ...
it says we can never see it in the mirror but certainly can in others.
I would say this is very true of us all.
Okay you guys have me laughing. And also thinking, musing. This thread went awry, for my intention anyway, but it has given you (I think) a needed dialogue. I've been keeping up, feel like I'm getting to know you all, a nibble at a time. No, probably won't surround myself with people who like my shoes, but yeah, anyone who likes my landscaping is a shoe-in for life!
I'm musing though, realizing its not my place to try and redirect this thread back to the question I posed (several times) but rather - simply enjoy where you guys have taken it. So yeah, its been my privilege.
However, next post - I'm gonna be more specific!
...
Wait... I thought the topic of this discussion was "What I Have Learned on This 'Moving Train".
Are you simply stating what You (dancepartner) have learned here... or are you asking Me (Cosmo, Hedonist, ComeBackGirl, et. al.) what I have learned from this 'Moving Train'?
Because if you want to know what WE have learned... it is going to be far different from what you have learned, isn't it? That's because we all process things differently, based upon our own perspectives... mostly based upon our life experiences. And part of the learning process is observation of the environment. This involves processing limited incoming information in order to form an opinion on where people are coming from.. based solely on what is type out on here... from basically, an anonymous source.
...
So... I don't get what you are saying here... do you want to know what we have learned here... or do you want to express wht you have learned... and want feed back on your learning experience here?
Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
Hail, Hail!!!
Okay you guys have me laughing. And also thinking, musing. This thread went awry, for my intention anyway, but it has given you (I think) a needed dialogue. I've been keeping up, feel like I'm getting to know you all, a nibble at a time. No, probably won't surround myself with people who like my shoes, but yeah, anyone who likes my landscaping is a shoe-in for life!
I'm musing though, realizing its not my place to try and redirect this thread back to the question I posed (several times) but rather - simply enjoy where you guys have taken it. So yeah, its been my privilege.
However, next post - I'm gonna be more specific!
i have not replied because i hadn't had time to read through all of the thread and compose my thoughts.
i have learned a lot on here. a lot about life in general, and also a lot of factual stuff and history and politics. i've also learned a lot of practical information like "be careful who you trust".
i have viewed forums all over the internet and for some reason this forum, a vast majority of the time, seems to be the most warm and highbrow and diverse. some forums if you are a liberal it is better to not get involved there. some are the same way but about conservatives. we have a good mix here with liberals, democrats, republicans, independants, third party supporters, tea partiers, and people from all over the world of differing political philosophies.
i have been around here for a long time and i have seen various incarnations of AMT. i have developed great relationships on here, friendships and otherwise. even the most tragic relationship of my life was with someone i met on this very forum, but that is an entirely different story. i think years ago before posters had to be paying members to post it was much more diverse. we had people from all walks of life from all corners of the world posting on there. i got to know some people pretty well back then that seemed to disappear overnight when the board became pay-to-post. i think tenclub might have done itself a disservice when they made that decision, but i can't judge when i do not know the factors involved in the decision. i do sometimes wonder about some of those people and wonder how they are doing.
it is just like life when you read enough posts by someone that you feel like you kind of know them in some way and you can almost predict what they might say in certain threads. i think we have that here now. there are regulars here and we kind of know each others' politics and positions on issues. but also just like in life, people come and go. for whatever reasons, you develop relationships and become friends with people and after awhile they come and go.
i think the best analogy that i can come up with to describe the community on here would be like when i was living in a fraternity house in college. there are people from all over the place. different states, countries, political affiliations, socioeconomic statuses, etc, but there is something that unites us and keeps us coming back. that thing here is pearl jam.
in the fraternity house we had about 50 guys living there. it was like living in an apartment complex where everyone leaves for a bit and then comes back at the end of the day. i knew a bit about everyone but there were people that i tended to gravitate to and get to know a little better and i got very close to some people. just like on here. there were people there that i did not see eye to eye with, or didn't particularly like. we never wished each other ill, we just were not close. just like on here. i used to go at it pretty hard with some people on here and i have to admit that i really did not like some of those guys, but at PJ 20 we all met, shared beer and jager, had discussions, and we patched up any animosity that there may have been. i can't believe that it's been a year since i argued with any of them on here but bonding over beer was how we handled such things in the house too...ahhh the healing powers of booze.. lol....
in the house we used to talk trash to each other and we used to try to have intelligent discussion about the issues of the day, just as we do on here. only back then i remember 2 guys fistfighting over nafta in 1993, but that again is a different story.. when things went well for one or a few guys we celebrated and were happy for them, just like on here. as years went on people would move out of the house and new ones would move in. just like on here. when one of the brothers died tragically, we all mourned together. just like we have done on here when posters have passed away.
people will always come and go in our lives, but institutions remain. just as i left the house in 1998, the fraternity remains. when people come and go here, long after i have left, pearl jam and their legacy will remain.
perhaps the biggest thing that i have learned, even though the lesson escapes me all the time, is this... i am just a dude sitting behind a keyboard reading things typed by others on this website. i reply, or post, or quote and reply to someone, and i forget that that person i reply to is another real person on the other end of the internet reading my words. and there are all these other real people at other corners of the internet reading the exchange between that poster and i. these people are reading it and thinking about it. some blow me off, most times rightfully so lol... some process that and formulate and type a reply, some add to it, some offer a rebuttal and then the direction of this thread full of words and letters changes and evolves. and it absolutely fucking blows me away how that works.... the lesson i keep losing is that we are all real people, we all have real feelings, and we all have our real lives. and to me THAT is the biggest lesson and the biggest thing i need to keep in mind when i post.
"You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry." - Lincoln
Comments
Oh one of my first posts the nastiness went right to the bone.
I quoted one of my favorites, Jack White, and was called out for whining in the South.
And this poster was so sick of it and the South
and the falling on deaf ears.
They were from Chicagoland 90 miles from where I was born raised and lived for 35 years.
Yet without thought that person intended to insult me without even knowing me.
That was a real lesson on the fools we find.
Speak loud, speak honestly, speak for yourself, speak without childlike tantrums...y'know, basic shit
What happens in these forums isn't so different from what occurs in everyday life; you have those with bias, forever angry! Those fairly openminded...those in between. All colors.
We're all learning, I think - or trying to, anyway.
ADD:
People should understand that no one is going to change anyone's minds. That is NOT the intent. And people need to understand, there is not 'Winning' a debate in which subjective viewpoints are expressed.
Anyone one that thinks they can 'win' a debate by changing someone's mind... really needs to go over and 'win' the debate on which picture of Eddie is the sexiest.
The purpose of a debate is to bring truths and facts to support WHY your opinion is formed as such. For example, when debating about the Presidency... bring out TRUTHS backed with FACTUAL data to dispell rumors, half-truths and outright lies people find on the Internet and Television/Radio.
The only thing people should be afraid of is getting their arguement/point they get off of television or a clearly biased website... ripped to shreds by truth and fact.
Hail, Hail!!!
You can be passionate about things... that is great. But why feel the urge to dissuade someone of what they are passionate about? I don't. I just lay it out there... like it or not, that's what it is. I will provide what I can to fortify my thoughts and reasoning... but, I really don't expect anyone to take on my opinions or beliefs. I can and will counter any point you have... if it does not make reasonable sense to me. Doesn't mean i am trying to dissuade you... i'm merely telling you I don't feel the same way and why I don't feel that way.
That is what debate is.. the sharing of ideas. As an example, There is no one real answer to which is Pearl Jam's greatest song. It is subjective to the person and not taken as an absolute truth. There are a myriad of varying factors, such as emotional connections you have to the song... at a place in YOUR life... that I can never fully comprehend. So, I simply accept your subjective answer to whatever song you select... for you. The same way I would express to you what my song is... i don't expect you to agree, because my variables to not fit your equation.
Hail, Hail!!!
As to greatest song?
Well hell...pretty sure it's obvious
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U68TnjHz ... re=related
sidewalks, cigarettes, and scenes......whoa!
As far as emotions/feelings vs. intellect/fact...I think both are necessary. Ideally there would be a balance between the two. We're each going to lean more one way or the other...which is cool...it's just how we're wired. Feelings can be strong motivators...anger, fear, sadness can make us passionate to make a change....but they can also be blinders. It's really important to know what we're feeling and why...and to understand that just because we or someone we know had a particular experience, that experience may not necessarily apply to everyone else. There are always different factors at play, no two situations are alike. That's where backing up the argument with facts is important. That's not to say that personal experiences and anecdotes aren't relevant...but they're just one person's experience and can't be generalized to everyone. I have been challenged and called out on here at times, and I appreciate being forced to think more about my opinions or argument on a topic, especially when it's done in a way in which I can actually hear the message.
"I need your strength for me to be strong...I need your love to feel loved"
perhaps that feels empowering to them. Perhaps that's the way they behave in real life.
Perhaps it is immaturity, lack of living the golden rule, perhaps it's just bully and jag...
Those who fear can ignore that and come and speak their minds though
because their are some fair minded people here that want to listen and learn.
I also think that there should be a balance in life... emotional and intellectual. That is the compositional aspects of life.
Like the Pearl Jam song example... it is subjective. There is no one correct answer to the question, "What is the greatest Pearl Jam song?". Everyone is going to answer with something different. Some people will undoubtedly agree, but not for the same exact reasons.
Example: I tend to favor the song, 'Daughter'. Not necessarily for any message the song may carry, but because it invokes a specific time in my life when I would play 'vs.' in my piece of crap VW Beetle up 101 North to see a gal that i loved very much, at that time. The song reminds me of the winding path through those sunlighted amber rolling hills, dotted with mighty, old California Great Oaks that lead me to her face. People may agree with the song 'Daughter', but not for those same reasons as me.
That is an emotional response that is tempered with intellectual reasoning of why I feel this way. So, it does not always mean one or the other... sometimes, it is both.
Hail, Hail!!!
not the making fun of others or at the expense of feelings or with motive to humiliate
but honest good humor. We have some witty folk on all the forums
but it is very welcome here to lighten.
That really speaks to life in general and how humor is the
very best distraction to problems and the very best healer to hurts.
"I need your strength for me to be strong...I need your love to feel loved"
Precisely. That is why there in no 'winning' a debate on religion, for example. On topics such as Gun Control, there is hard data that can be manipulated and interpreted to support either side of the debate.
I position is to take as an objective view as I can and make the best informed decision possible... which is always going to be tempered with emotional responses that sway me towards one side. That is part of what makes us human... the ability to reason, using the tools of analysis and logic to arrive at truth. With religion, it is purely subjective because there is no objective truth.
When discussing topics, such as religion, the best way I have found to deal with it is to express my viewpoint and accept varying viewpoints. Because a topic such as religion... no one knows. We ALL know that no one knows. We believe... yes. Know? Nope.
Hail, Hail!!!
How can you be so sure someone does not know?
We know you don't know but that does not mean everyone does not know God.
I understand though this is your belief or do you know it?
I understand this makes you feel more comfortable about your where you sit with God
at least this is what you have expressed numerous times.
But remember there are no absolutes, not always, nor never, there is some and sometimes.
I've learned here on the AMT that some posters love others no matter what they know or believe.
They are truly accepting.
"I need your strength for me to be strong...I need your love to feel loved"
My viewpoint is that people do themselves a great disservice by sheltering themselves only in opinions that they agree with. Like only listening to or watching only those broadcasts that they believe to be true... by only talking hot topic issues with like minded people in an agree-fest... by writing off dissenting opinions or views as stupid, evil or destructive. What happens is they create an alternative reality that they believe actually exists. When reality comes crashing down on them, instead of re-thinking their position, they typically find fault with the opposition group. If you read the Drudge Report... read the Huffington Post, too (and vice versa). And try doing it from an objective viewpoint. Failing to do so, you are basically brainwashing yourself into believing the world should be as you see it... because everyone around you believes it... therefore, the majority of people must also believe it.
Hail, Hail!!!
"Yes, Lady Gaga, those shoes really DO look good on you! Comfortable too."
"Sure, Madonna, you look great in that too-tight corset. And of COURSE you should flash your ass to your audience!"
Sometimes people are only too happy to keep their blinders on, perhaps out of fear of what they'd really see - have to face - without them.
Good point hedonist. It can be jarring to have those blinders knocked off...but sometimes absolutely necessary. However I do plan to surround myself only with people who do tell me they like my shoes
"I need your strength for me to be strong...I need your love to feel loved"
I'm musing though, realizing its not my place to try and redirect this thread back to the question I posed (several times) but rather - simply enjoy where you guys have taken it. So yeah, its been my privilege.
However, next post - I'm gonna be more specific!
CBG has done it again
granted it was a movie about incredible dumbness but are you sure idiocracy is an incredibly dumb movie?
p.s. i dont own a microwave.
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
How do you cook hot pockets? :P
dancepartner, sorry...tangents tend to happen. Hope you can take umbrage in that this has mostly been a refreshingly open and positive thread.
"I need your strength for me to be strong...I need your love to feel loved"
I posted a video about irresponsibility in another thread ...
it says we can never see it in the mirror but certainly can in others.
I would say this is very true of us all.
Wait... I thought the topic of this discussion was "What I Have Learned on This 'Moving Train".
Are you simply stating what You (dancepartner) have learned here... or are you asking Me (Cosmo, Hedonist, ComeBackGirl, et. al.) what I have learned from this 'Moving Train'?
Because if you want to know what WE have learned... it is going to be far different from what you have learned, isn't it? That's because we all process things differently, based upon our own perspectives... mostly based upon our life experiences. And part of the learning process is observation of the environment. This involves processing limited incoming information in order to form an opinion on where people are coming from.. based solely on what is type out on here... from basically, an anonymous source.
...
So... I don't get what you are saying here... do you want to know what we have learned here... or do you want to express wht you have learned... and want feed back on your learning experience here?
Hail, Hail!!!
I love it here
i have learned a lot on here. a lot about life in general, and also a lot of factual stuff and history and politics. i've also learned a lot of practical information like "be careful who you trust".
i have viewed forums all over the internet and for some reason this forum, a vast majority of the time, seems to be the most warm and highbrow and diverse. some forums if you are a liberal it is better to not get involved there. some are the same way but about conservatives. we have a good mix here with liberals, democrats, republicans, independants, third party supporters, tea partiers, and people from all over the world of differing political philosophies.
i have been around here for a long time and i have seen various incarnations of AMT. i have developed great relationships on here, friendships and otherwise. even the most tragic relationship of my life was with someone i met on this very forum, but that is an entirely different story. i think years ago before posters had to be paying members to post it was much more diverse. we had people from all walks of life from all corners of the world posting on there. i got to know some people pretty well back then that seemed to disappear overnight when the board became pay-to-post. i think tenclub might have done itself a disservice when they made that decision, but i can't judge when i do not know the factors involved in the decision. i do sometimes wonder about some of those people and wonder how they are doing.
it is just like life when you read enough posts by someone that you feel like you kind of know them in some way and you can almost predict what they might say in certain threads. i think we have that here now. there are regulars here and we kind of know each others' politics and positions on issues. but also just like in life, people come and go. for whatever reasons, you develop relationships and become friends with people and after awhile they come and go.
i think the best analogy that i can come up with to describe the community on here would be like when i was living in a fraternity house in college. there are people from all over the place. different states, countries, political affiliations, socioeconomic statuses, etc, but there is something that unites us and keeps us coming back. that thing here is pearl jam.
in the fraternity house we had about 50 guys living there. it was like living in an apartment complex where everyone leaves for a bit and then comes back at the end of the day. i knew a bit about everyone but there were people that i tended to gravitate to and get to know a little better and i got very close to some people. just like on here. there were people there that i did not see eye to eye with, or didn't particularly like. we never wished each other ill, we just were not close. just like on here. i used to go at it pretty hard with some people on here and i have to admit that i really did not like some of those guys, but at PJ 20 we all met, shared beer and jager, had discussions, and we patched up any animosity that there may have been. i can't believe that it's been a year since i argued with any of them on here but bonding over beer was how we handled such things in the house too...ahhh the healing powers of booze.. lol....
in the house we used to talk trash to each other and we used to try to have intelligent discussion about the issues of the day, just as we do on here. only back then i remember 2 guys fistfighting over nafta in 1993, but that again is a different story.. when things went well for one or a few guys we celebrated and were happy for them, just like on here. as years went on people would move out of the house and new ones would move in. just like on here. when one of the brothers died tragically, we all mourned together. just like we have done on here when posters have passed away.
people will always come and go in our lives, but institutions remain. just as i left the house in 1998, the fraternity remains. when people come and go here, long after i have left, pearl jam and their legacy will remain.
perhaps the biggest thing that i have learned, even though the lesson escapes me all the time, is this... i am just a dude sitting behind a keyboard reading things typed by others on this website. i reply, or post, or quote and reply to someone, and i forget that that person i reply to is another real person on the other end of the internet reading my words. and there are all these other real people at other corners of the internet reading the exchange between that poster and i. these people are reading it and thinking about it. some blow me off, most times rightfully so lol... some process that and formulate and type a reply, some add to it, some offer a rebuttal and then the direction of this thread full of words and letters changes and evolves. and it absolutely fucking blows me away how that works.... the lesson i keep losing is that we are all real people, we all have real feelings, and we all have our real lives. and to me THAT is the biggest lesson and the biggest thing i need to keep in mind when i post.
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."