Ok. I won't ask you to answer my entire post. But, can you tell me about how it will "bend the cost curve?"
How about the above question?
Third time's the charm? It's been a week since I posted the cost question and nary an attempt to answer it. How did this pile of legislation "bend the cost curve" (it's original stated intent)?
Everyone focuses on pre-ex, etc. Nobody's against pre-ex coverage. We're all just wondering how we will pay for it. Giving out money is easy.
...
I have no idea what 'Bending the Cost Curve' means.
I know what 'Laying Off the Curve' means... but, I was never good with that... which is why I don't play baseball anymore.
That's why you didn't hear an answer from me.
Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
Hail, Hail!!!
Third time's the charm? It's been a week since I posted the cost question and nary an attempt to answer it. How did this pile of legislation "bend the cost curve" (it's original stated intent)?
Everyone focuses on pre-ex, etc. Nobody's against pre-ex coverage. We're all just wondering how we will pay for it. Giving out money is easy.
Well, it is designed to expand the marketplace through an individual mandate and health insurance exchanges. These exchanges, implemented in MA (https://www.mahealthconnector.org/portal/site/connector) and Utah (http://www.avenueh.com/), are supposed to open up the marketplace to new consumers. A capitalist idea, the end goal is to increase the pool of those insured, which, should reduce costs for all insured. The more people pumping money into the system--the insured--the lower costs should be. If you eliminate the freeloaders, costs should come down.
Another important aspect of the bill is the requirement that insurance companies use 85% of premiums for CARE, and not executive pay or golf outings for doctors or marketing. A good idea, but we are dealing with insurance companies here and ego and profit-driven executives who see themselves as gods i the company of minions. This seems like another good way to bring costs down.
What is needed, and what was cut from the bill, is a public option. In my opinion, a public option would give individuals another option, and it will offer some type of competition with respect to private markets. More importantly, if implemented as I think it should be, it could get people off of the Medicaid rolls by asking them (forcing them) to use the public option--pay something, $50, $100 a month, instead of simply taking money from Medicaid. It might also be possible that seniors would see the public option as a better fit for them. But, who fought the public option? The insurance companies!!
The problem is the insurance companies themselves. Doctors and those providing hands-on care are the ones who deserve the monetary rewards in the healthcare system. Executive pay dwarfs doctor pay. Unfortunately, there is a lot of waste in this system. Ask any pharmaceutical sales rep or medical devices sales rep. Healthcare in the U.S. is a profit driven industry. Should it be? Should an actor, or baseball player, or Jersey Shore "celebrity" have better access to healthcare than a middle school teacher? What is our philosophical foundation with respect to health in this country?
To truly put a dent in healthcare spending we could:
1. Eliminate Medicare and Medicaid. With the growing inequality gap and the inability of CEOs to pay a living wage, this will surely end well for our seniors and those who will not have a very large nest egg for retirement.
2. We can repeal Obamacare and everyone can be on their own for health insurance. Let's see how that works.
****3. We can, as a nation, get healthy!!! Yeah right. it is asking too much for the average American to shun the drive-thru and get off the fucking couch and detach themselves form the spell of the boob-tube.
In the end, nothing will bend the cost curve in any significant way. Single-payer? We're too unhealthy of a country and the few will ruin it for the many. That is what being part of a society is: it is always the few ruining it for the majority. When we can take the time to eat well and exercise, then maybe single-payer would be the way to go. But, we as a nation, are too stupid and lazy.
I know I didn't answer your question as you would have hoped. To put it simply, the cost curve will not bend as long as insurance companies are involved and as long s we are as stupid and lazy a group of people as we are.
We know how you feel- you've made that very evident with your long stream of juvenile posts.
Instead of just listening to your Dad and his dinner table talk and then repeating it on this forum... why don't you spend a few moments, research the two candidates, and then formulate (create) your own opinion.
After doing this, you might still feel the same way, but here's the second thing: then borrow a thesaurus from your school before writing your next post. Look up a comparable word to 'sucks' and use it instead. That way you don't make every Romney supporter look like a (insert word here).
Not only would you come across as more credible (believable)... you'd be helping your cause so much more.
i agree with you bigtime, mr. thirty bills unpaid. sometimes you and i agree others times we may not. but i will tell ya you are always intelligent... at least from what i have read of yours. nice job and great advice to a dude whom seems to get a kick out of getting under the skins of others who may not support a crooked ass multimillionaire who changes his mind as often as the wind shifts directions
Here's to you as well, sir!
For a consistent and well-played position on this forum I enjoy so much... I offer you a Wisers Society of Uncompromising Men 'slow clap'.
Douglas Zehner is the senior vice president and chief financial officer at MedStar Washington Hospital Center in northwest Washington, where Boone was treated. He said Medstar gave $22.1 million worth of care to uninsured or underinsured patients and forgave $85.1 million in debt last year. But that charity isn't free. The only way the hospital can recoup its losses, Zehner said, is by negotiating with private insurance providers for higher prices, a process known as "cost-shifting."
"I have to price my services with insurance carriers because that’s the only group I'm even in the room talking to about how much they're going to pay me for my services," Zehner said. "So the way the cost-shifting works is you basically back into how much [money] you need to run that service [for all patients] and apply it to the expected number of people that are coming in that have insurance to get that service."
The fewer people who have insurance, the greater the burden on those who do have coverage. In order to cover the costs of treating the uninsured, premiums go up. The American Hospital Association estimated that U.S. hospitals performed $39.3 billion worth of uncompensated care in 2010, the most recent year for which numbers are available. That's 5.8 percent of total expenses.
This is a problem that Obama's health care law seeks to address and one that Romney himself has acknowledged in the past, before he began pursuing the Republican presidential nomination.
"Look, it doesn't make a lot of sense for us to have millions and millions of people who have no health insurance and yet who can go to the emergency room and get entirely free care for which they have no responsibility, particularly if they are people who have sufficient means to pay their own way," he said in 2010.
In 2007, he used even starker language: "When [uninsured people] show up at the hospital, they get care. They get free care paid for by you and me. If that's not a form of socialism, I don't know what is."
Boone, who considers himself relatively apolitical, said he "absolutely" looks forward to the full implementation of Obamacare. "I'm so excited that this is happening," he said.
Given his pre-existing condition, Boone said, the cost of purchasing individual health insurance was astronomical. If an insurer even made him an offer, he said, he was seeing quotes of $1,000 per month -- far beyond what he could afford. Under Obamacare, Boone should be able to find an affordable plan on the new health care "exchanges" being established in 2014.
It's not a done deal, however. Although it's unlikely that Congress will have the Republican majorities required to approve a full repeal, a Romney presidency would have ways to hobble the law's implementation, jeopardizing coverage for people like Boone.
Douglas Zehner is the senior vice president and chief financial officer at MedStar Washington Hospital Center in northwest Washington, where Boone was treated. He said Medstar gave $22.1 million worth of care to uninsured or underinsured patients and forgave $85.1 million in debt last year. But that charity isn't free. The only way the hospital can recoup its losses, Zehner said, is by negotiating with private insurance providers for higher prices, a process known as "cost-shifting."
"I have to price my services with insurance carriers because that’s the only group I'm even in the room talking to about how much they're going to pay me for my services," Zehner said. "So the way the cost-shifting works is you basically back into how much [money] you need to run that service [for all patients] and apply it to the expected number of people that are coming in that have insurance to get that service."
The fewer people who have insurance, the greater the burden on those who do have coverage. In order to cover the costs of treating the uninsured, premiums go up. The American Hospital Association estimated that U.S. hospitals performed $39.3 billion worth of uncompensated care in 2010, the most recent year for which numbers are available. That's 5.8 percent of total expenses.
This is a problem that Obama's health care law seeks to address and one that Romney himself has acknowledged in the past, before he began pursuing the Republican presidential nomination.
"Look, it doesn't make a lot of sense for us to have millions and millions of people who have no health insurance and yet who can go to the emergency room and get entirely free care for which they have no responsibility, particularly if they are people who have sufficient means to pay their own way," he said in 2010.
In 2007, he used even starker language: "When [uninsured people] show up at the hospital, they get care. They get free care paid for by you and me. If that's not a form of socialism, I don't know what is."
Boone, who considers himself relatively apolitical, said he "absolutely" looks forward to the full implementation of Obamacare. "I'm so excited that this is happening," he said.
Given his pre-existing condition, Boone said, the cost of purchasing individual health insurance was astronomical. If an insurer even made him an offer, he said, he was seeing quotes of $1,000 per month -- far beyond what he could afford. Under Obamacare, Boone should be able to find an affordable plan on the new health care "exchanges" being established in 2014.
It's not a done deal, however. Although it's unlikely that Congress will have the Republican majorities required to approve a full repeal, a Romney presidency would have ways to hobble the law's implementation, jeopardizing coverage for people like Boone.
So,what it's saying is, he de facto has coverage either way, it's just the mechanism by which the cost is covered. If you don't find a way to manage costs, it's just a shell game. And this law does nothing to effect that.
Sorry. The world doesn't work the way you tell it to.
So,what it's saying is, he de facto has coverage either way, it's just the mechanism by which the cost is covered. If you don't find a way to manage costs, it's just a shell game. And this law does nothing to effect that.
Which is essentially what I said in response to your question that you asked 3 times.
You can put a foundation in place, but in the end, in a privatized healthcare system, the insured will be at the mercy of the insurance companies, and the insurance companies will be the ones dictating cost. At the same time, we will still have Big Pharma to deal with--why the big fuss over medical marijuana? We will still have pharmaceutical sales reps who spend an obscene amount of money taking doctors golfing, out to lunch, etc., just to get their drugs in their offices. We will continue to have doctors who care more about testing patiens--that's where the $$ is--than treating patients.
The problem is PEOPLE. The problem is the lust for $$$$ over all else; the problem is an unhealthy, fast food, boob tube addicted portion of society. The problem is PEOPLE.
you're all over the place dude. let's make a concerted effort to stay on topic here. if you try really hard I'm confident you can do it
the excise tax mentioned in the OP is part of obamacare. hence the moving of labor overseas. but again, I'm sure it's not obama's fault. nothing ever is
The excise tax in an industry that makes obscene profits. Do you know anyone in the medical device sales or pharmaceutical sales industry? The amount of markup on these devices, and the amount of money wasted on taking doctors golfing, out to lunch, etc., is staggering. And, that is part of the reason for the high costs of healthcare.
So, if they want to bitch and whine over a 2.3% tax while people in this country have trouble paying their healthcare bills, or simply go bankrupt due to them, or get coerced into being tested--how doctors make a lot of money, instead of being treated, they can bitch and whine. The truth is that they are selfish and greedy and have one thing in mind: $$$$.
As for me being all over the place, it's called a joke. And this comment, "if you try really hard I'm confident you can do it" is one you would never make if we were having a face to face discussion. it's easy being a tough guy when you are on a band's message board. but, I don't expect much from someone from Philly, "tough guy" capital of the world. Go back to Broad Street.
yeah, I'm in med device sales. as I stated numerous times in this thread. try reading, it's good for you.
not all med device companies make profits...not even close. you'd be surprised at how poorly a lot of companies are run.
also, it's pharma reps who were big on taking docs out to lunches and golf outings. all of which is now against the law. they can't even give pens away anymore.
you're obviously up past your bedtime on this topic. study up and come back when you have a clue
I am a left leaning independent with common sense and I'm guessing a lot more knowledge about the ACA and the healthcare industry than you. You're firing out empty rhetoric, catch phrases, and played out gimmicks. Try actually going out there and learning something for a change. You are just wrong here and out of your league.
OK, so according to you I'm out of my league. keep making blanket statements. you sound brilliant
you also say that obamacare has not led to job cuts. um, might want to check the news. you will be surprised to learn that domestic companies are in fact laying people off in lue of obamacare. that's what initiated my OP
for the first time in my life i have a primary health insurance and i even have a secondary insurance as well. all of this happened under obama. i am enjoying having my monthly and even weekly visits to the many doctors, clinics and multiple hospitals i see finally paid for.
fuck yes, obama!
you should be thanking those of us paying our taxes. we're the ones paying for you
Does anyone know WHY employers provide Health Care Insurance?
...
It is because it is one of many benefits companies use to obtain and retain employees. Prior to the 1930s... companies didn't have to provide shit to it workers other than a wage. Through collective bargaining agreements, workers got benefits, such as sick days, vacation days, paid holidays, medical insurance, etc... along with their wages.
It has evolved into something that people expect to get automatically.
your last line is one of the biggest problems in this country...sense of entitlement. the man is supposed to give, give, give
for the first time in my life i have a primary health insurance and i even have a secondary insurance as well. all of this happened under obama. i am enjoying having my monthly and even weekly visits to the many doctors, clinics and multiple hospitals i see finally paid for.
fuck yes, obama!
you should be thanking those of us paying our taxes. we're the ones paying for you
you're welcome
He credits Obama like he devised this monstrosity bill, that was actually written years ago by the Apollo Alliance. LOL Obama gets all the credit and all the blame....so which one will win out? Many people dont understand that the only revenue that comes in....is from %53 of our nation!
Theres no time like the present
A man that stands for nothing....will fall for anything!
I am a left leaning independent with common sense and I'm guessing a lot more knowledge about the ACA and the healthcare industry than you. You're firing out empty rhetoric, catch phrases, and played out gimmicks. Try actually going out there and learning something for a change. You are just wrong here and out of your league.
OK, so according to you I'm out of my league. keep making blanket statements. you sound brilliant
you also say that obamacare has not led to job cuts. um, might want to check the news. you will be surprised to learn that domestic companies are in fact laying people off in lue of obamacare. that's what initiated my OP
So from my entire post, you chose to keep the last few sentences and then say I only make blanket statements. Nice tactic.
I've done my research, and I happen to work with several people who know WAY more about this subject than I ever will. Having talked with them, and having done my own research, I can tell you that you are flat out wrong and are just listening to the fear mongers who say that every time Obama sneezes a billion people die.
You don't post anything of substance in your threads and then lash out when you get called out on it. And you wonder why nobody on here is taking you seriously. But that's fine, right? Rasmussen and Fox News have your back.
Bright eyed kid: "Wow Typo Man, you're the best!"
Typo Man: "Thanks kidz, but remembir, stay in skool!"
you're all over the place dude. let's make a concerted effort to stay on topic here. if you try really hard I'm confident you can do it
the excise tax mentioned in the OP is part of obamacare. hence the moving of labor overseas. but again, I'm sure it's not obama's fault. nothing ever is
The excise tax in an industry that makes obscene profits. Do you know anyone in the medical device sales or pharmaceutical sales industry? The amount of markup on these devices, and the amount of money wasted on taking doctors golfing, out to lunch, etc., is staggering. And, that is part of the reason for the high costs of healthcare.
So, if they want to bitch and whine over a 2.3% tax while people in this country have trouble paying their healthcare bills, or simply go bankrupt due to them, or get coerced into being tested--how doctors make a lot of money, instead of being treated, they can bitch and whine. The truth is that they are selfish and greedy and have one thing in mind: $$$$.
As for me being all over the place, it's called a joke. And this comment, "if you try really hard I'm confident you can do it" is one you would never make if we were having a face to face discussion. it's easy being a tough guy when you are on a band's message board. but, I don't expect much from someone from Philly, "tough guy" capital of the world. Go back to Broad Street.
yeah, I'm in med device sales. as I stated numerous times in this thread. try reading, it's good for you.
not all med device companies make profits...not even close. you'd be surprised at how poorly a lot of companies are run.
also, it's pharma reps who were big on taking docs out to lunches and golf outings. all of which is now against the law. they can't even give pens away anymore.
you're obviously up past your bedtime on this topic. study up and come back when you have a clue
Haha....look a these lines written by a smug prick: "you're obviously up past your bedtime on this topic. study up and come back when you have a clue."And this gem: "as I stated numerous times in this thread. try reading, it's good for you."
Everyone is a condescending tough guy when on an online chat board. I would love to see you try and make these comments if we were face to face in a bar. It would never happen, but I would love it if it did. I like laughing at people who live in a constant haze testosterone induced stupidity.
I would love to know what company you work for. Why don't you post a link to back up your intimate knowledge?
I know people in the pharma sales and med device sales industries, and from what I have heard the markup on medical devices is obscene. From what I have heard the $$ spend on "schmoozing" doctors is a complete waste. It doesn't matter that this is illegal now. Do you think it still doesn't happen?
I'm not wasting any more time on a smug prick like you. It's obvious that you have a monopoly on all the knowledge associated with this topic, so we should all shut up and get out of your way.
Here are just a few articles I have come across when reading about this topic. I try to stay away from the lunatic sites, and instead try to gather as much info as possible from those sites that do not rely on fear and/or propaganda:
Does anyone know WHY employers provide Health Care Insurance?
...
It is because it is one of many benefits companies use to obtain and retain employees. Prior to the 1930s... companies didn't have to provide shit to it workers other than a wage. Through collective bargaining agreements, workers got benefits, such as sick days, vacation days, paid holidays, medical insurance, etc... along with their wages.
It has evolved into something that people expect to get automatically.
your last line is one of the biggest problems in this country...sense of entitlement. the man is supposed to give, give, give
...
Hey, you know what?
I believe I shoud be taxed on the Cadillac Health Care Insurance I am provided by my company. They are giving me a GREAT deal on access to premium care that I could not otherwise afford. I am grateful for that.
Employer provided Health Care Insurance is a benefit that holds monetary value... I really believe that it should be lumped in as part of our annual salaries as a taxable benefit.
Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
Hail, Hail!!!
Does anyone know WHY employers provide Health Care Insurance?
...
It is because it is one of many benefits companies use to obtain and retain employees. Prior to the 1930s... companies didn't have to provide shit to it workers other than a wage. Through collective bargaining agreements, workers got benefits, such as sick days, vacation days, paid holidays, medical insurance, etc... along with their wages.
It has evolved into something that people expect to get automatically.
your last line is one of the biggest problems in this country...sense of entitlement. the man is supposed to give, give, give
...
Hey, you know what?
I believe I shoud be taxed on the Cadillac Health Care Insurance I am provided by my company. They are giving me a GREAT deal on access to premium care that I could not otherwise afford. I am grateful for that.
Employer provided Health Care Insurance is a benefit that holds monetary value... I really believe that it should be lumped in as part of our annual salaries as a taxable benefit.
Cosmo, how do you keep a straight face responding to this drivel.
Employer provided healthcare is now something that falls under the umbrella of "sense of entitlement?" It is now part of the "give me, give me" culture?
I am a left leaning independent with common sense and I'm guessing a lot more knowledge about the ACA and the healthcare industry than you. You're firing out empty rhetoric, catch phrases, and played out gimmicks. Try actually going out there and learning something for a change. You are just wrong here and out of your league.
OK, so according to you I'm out of my league. keep making blanket statements. you sound brilliant
you also say that obamacare has not led to job cuts. um, might want to check the news. you will be surprised to learn that domestic companies are in fact laying people off in lue of obamacare. that's what initiated my OP
So from my entire post, you chose to keep the last few sentences and then say I only make blanket statements. Nice tactic.
I've done my research, and I happen to work with several people who know WAY more about this subject than I ever will. Having talked with them, and having done my own research, I can tell you that you are flat out wrong and are just listening to the fear mongers who say that every time Obama sneezes a billion people die.
You don't post anything of substance in your threads and then lash out when you get called out on it. And you wonder why nobody on here is taking you seriously. But that's fine, right? Rasmussen and Fox News have your back.
another fox news reference!!! shocking!!!! NO ONE HERE MENTIONED THAT JOKE OF AN OUTLET. come up with something new. please
you should have the people who know so much more about you post here. then your posts would bring value
go back to the OP. how does that article fail to 'bring substance'?? Because of obamacare, domestic companies are cutting jobs and exporting labor. funny since two of his primary campaign platforms are increasing domestic jobs and incentivizing companies to stop sending labor overseas. if that's not a conlict of interest than I don't knw what is
I know, I know...it's never obama's fault. best president ever
...
Hey, you know what?
I believe I shoud be taxed on the Cadillac Health Care Insurance I am provided by my company. They are giving me a GREAT deal on access to premium care that I could not otherwise afford. I am grateful for that.
Employer provided Health Care Insurance is a benefit that holds monetary value... I really believe that it should be lumped in as part of our annual salaries as a taxable benefit.
Cosmo, how do you keep a straight face responding to this drivel.
Employer provided healthcare is now something that falls under the umbrella of "sense of entitlement?" It is now part of the "give me, give me" culture?
Unreal.
...
Please, re-read the statement I made.
I am saying I am willing to help PAY for my Employer provided Health Care Insurance by having to included as part of my wages. I am GRATEFUL they offer me this access I would, otherwise, not be able to afford. I should include the company provided insurance on my 1040 Form as income because I benefit from it.. but, only pay $460 of the $6,463 value of the coverage.
Post edited by Cosmo on
Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
Hail, Hail!!!
Haha....look a these lines written by a smug prick: "you're obviously up past your bedtime on this topic. study up and come back when you have a clue."And this gem: "as I stated numerous times in this thread. try reading, it's good for you."
Everyone is a condescending tough guy when on an online chat board. I would love to see you try and make these comments if we were face to face in a bar. It would never happen, but I would love it if it did. I like laughing at people who live in a constant haze testosterone induced stupidity.
I would love to know what company you work for. Why don't you post a link to back up your intimate knowledge?
I know people in the pharma sales and med device sales industries, and from what I have heard the markup on medical devices is obscene. From what I have heard the $$ spend on "schmoozing" doctors is a complete waste. It doesn't matter that this is illegal now. Do you think it still doesn't happen?
I'm not wasting any more time on a smug prick like you. It's obvious that you have a monopoly on all the knowledge associated with this topic, so we should all shut up and get out of your way.
Here are just a few articles I have come across when reading about this topic. I try to stay away from the lunatic sites, and instead try to gather as much info as possible from those sites that do not rely on fear and/or propaganda:
here are a few quotes that you actually used. then you try to make an intelligent post. um, doesn't work
'It would never happen, but I would love it if it did'
'from what I have heard the markup on med devices is obscene'. Nice source, and certainly not proof that all device companies make money or have the ability to incur a meaningless tax hike
'from what I have heard (AGAIN!! you 'hear' a lot of stuff, you shoudl be a reporter) the money spent on schmoozing doctros is a complete waste'
'I try to gather as much info as possible from sites that do not rely on fear and propaganda' um, I never posted links to any progaganda websites. just a press release based on recent happenings in the device industry
keep believing everything you 'hear and keep ignoring those who actually work in the indsutry for a living. I mentioned my job in the thread. again, reading...try it
Cosmo, how do you keep a straight face responding to this drivel.
Employer provided healthcare is now something that falls under the umbrella of "sense of entitlement?" It is now part of the "give me, give me" culture?
Unreal.
You love blanket statements. what's your point?
last time I checked they are called 'benefits' for a reaason. it's not mandatory that employers provide healthcare to their employees
Haha....look a these lines written by a smug prick: "you're obviously up past your bedtime on this topic. study up and come back when you have a clue."And this gem: "as I stated numerous times in this thread. try reading, it's good for you."
Everyone is a condescending tough guy when on an online chat board. I would love to see you try and make these comments if we were face to face in a bar. It would never happen, but I would love it if it did. I like laughing at people who live in a constant haze testosterone induced stupidity.
I would love to know what company you work for. Why don't you post a link to back up your intimate knowledge?
I know people in the pharma sales and med device sales industries, and from what I have heard the markup on medical devices is obscene. From what I have heard the $$ spend on "schmoozing" doctors is a complete waste. It doesn't matter that this is illegal now. Do you think it still doesn't happen?
I'm not wasting any more time on a smug prick like you. It's obvious that you have a monopoly on all the knowledge associated with this topic, so we should all shut up and get out of your way.
Here are just a few articles I have come across when reading about this topic. I try to stay away from the lunatic sites, and instead try to gather as much info as possible from those sites that do not rely on fear and/or propaganda:
here are a few quotes that you actually used. then you try to make an intelligent post. um, doesn't work
'It would never happen, but I would love it if it did'
'from what I have heard the markup on med devices is obscene'. Nice source, and certainly not proof that all device companies make money or have the ability to incur a meaningless tax hike
'from what I have heard (AGAIN!! you 'hear' a lot of stuff, you shoudl be a reporter) the money spent on schmoozing doctros is a complete waste'
'I try to gather as much info as possible from sites that do not rely on fear and propaganda' um, I never posted links to any progaganda websites. just a press release based on recent happenings in the device industry
keep believing everything you 'hear and keep ignoring those who actually work in the indsutry for a living. I mentioned my job in the thread. again, reading...try it
Once again, all over the place.
Reading your posts I envision my 3 year old nephew who is pissed off because he can't have ice cream.
How am I ignoring people in the industry? That's where I get my information from.
How do I know that you are in the industry? What proof do I have of that?
Keep comfy in that nice ego-protected womb you rest in.
Haha....look a these lines written by a smug prick: "you're obviously up past your bedtime on this topic. study up and come back when you have a clue."And this gem: "as I stated numerous times in this thread. try reading, it's good for you."
Everyone is a condescending tough guy when on an online chat board. I would love to see you try and make these comments if we were face to face in a bar. It would never happen, but I would love it if it did. I like laughing at people who live in a constant haze testosterone induced stupidity.
I would love to know what company you work for. Why don't you post a link to back up your intimate knowledge?
I know people in the pharma sales and med device sales industries, and from what I have heard the markup on medical devices is obscene. From what I have heard the $$ spend on "schmoozing" doctors is a complete waste. It doesn't matter that this is illegal now. Do you think it still doesn't happen?
I'm not wasting any more time on a smug prick like you. It's obvious that you have a monopoly on all the knowledge associated with this topic, so we should all shut up and get out of your way.
Here are just a few articles I have come across when reading about this topic. I try to stay away from the lunatic sites, and instead try to gather as much info as possible from those sites that do not rely on fear and/or propaganda:
here are a few quotes that you actually used. then you try to make an intelligent post. um, doesn't work
'It would never happen, but I would love it if it did'
'from what I have heard the markup on med devices is obscene'. Nice source, and certainly not proof that all device companies make money or have the ability to incur a meaningless tax hike
'from what I have heard (AGAIN!! you 'hear' a lot of stuff, you shoudl be a reporter) the money spent on schmoozing doctros is a complete waste'
'I try to gather as much info as possible from sites that do not rely on fear and propaganda' um, I never posted links to any progaganda websites. just a press release based on recent happenings in the device industry
keep believing everything you 'hear and keep ignoring those who actually work in the indsutry for a living. I mentioned my job in the thread. again, reading...try it
Once again, all over the place.
Reading your posts I envision my 3 year old nephew who is pissed off because he can't have ice cream.
How am I ignoring people in the industry? That's where I get my information from.
How do I know that you are in the industry? What proof do I have of that?
Keep comfy in that nice ego-protected womb you rest in.
I work in med sales dude...I have mentioned that a few times. You're not very good at reading.
funny that even the liberal turds are now pulling back on parts of obamacare...specifically, the device tax
what a fucking disaster...'change' that equals less domestic jobs. what an ass hole
Obama is possibly the worst president ever. And obamacare is possibly the worst thing ever (even worse tahn ruben amaro, which is virtually impossible)
Obama is possibly the worst president ever. And obamacare is possibly the worst thing ever (even worse tahn ruben amaro, which is virtually impossible)
You act like conservatives are any better.
From an independent viewpoint, both sides suck, and yes, Obama is not a great president, but then again no president is perfect and is liked by all.
Complaining about Obamacare, especially when it hasn't been out long, is pointless. If it turns out horribly bad then the next President, who will probably be Republican based off America's recent flip-flop voting, will end it.
~Carter~
You can spend your time alone, redigesting past regrets, oh
or you can come to terms and realize
you're the only one who can't forgive yourself, oh
makes much more sense to live in the present tense - Present Tense
http://youtu.be/gUoIa2Xu-UU
my new hero, dr. mark (i think is his name)
at first glance some of you will think he is an idiot with wild hair & goofy makeup
he is a wonderful psychiatrist with a genius brain
watch his videos
Here's the silliness of this idea - they spent 3.5 years preparing to implement the law. Then, when insurers stopped offering plans they said they weren't allowed to offer, they acted shocked and pointed fingers. Then, gave 3 weeks to undo it which if you knew what was required in filing rates, benefits, etc. would sound even more ludicrous than it already does.
Not only was it totally predictable - they created the situation!!!! How could they not see that plans they outlawed would be terminated? How does one go about being that stupid?
Sorry. The world doesn't work the way you tell it to.
Comments
I have no idea what 'Bending the Cost Curve' means.
I know what 'Laying Off the Curve' means... but, I was never good with that... which is why I don't play baseball anymore.
That's why you didn't hear an answer from me.
Hail, Hail!!!
Well, it is designed to expand the marketplace through an individual mandate and health insurance exchanges. These exchanges, implemented in MA (https://www.mahealthconnector.org/portal/site/connector) and Utah (http://www.avenueh.com/), are supposed to open up the marketplace to new consumers. A capitalist idea, the end goal is to increase the pool of those insured, which, should reduce costs for all insured. The more people pumping money into the system--the insured--the lower costs should be. If you eliminate the freeloaders, costs should come down.
Another important aspect of the bill is the requirement that insurance companies use 85% of premiums for CARE, and not executive pay or golf outings for doctors or marketing. A good idea, but we are dealing with insurance companies here and ego and profit-driven executives who see themselves as gods i the company of minions. This seems like another good way to bring costs down.
What is needed, and what was cut from the bill, is a public option. In my opinion, a public option would give individuals another option, and it will offer some type of competition with respect to private markets. More importantly, if implemented as I think it should be, it could get people off of the Medicaid rolls by asking them (forcing them) to use the public option--pay something, $50, $100 a month, instead of simply taking money from Medicaid. It might also be possible that seniors would see the public option as a better fit for them. But, who fought the public option? The insurance companies!!
The problem is the insurance companies themselves. Doctors and those providing hands-on care are the ones who deserve the monetary rewards in the healthcare system. Executive pay dwarfs doctor pay. Unfortunately, there is a lot of waste in this system. Ask any pharmaceutical sales rep or medical devices sales rep. Healthcare in the U.S. is a profit driven industry. Should it be? Should an actor, or baseball player, or Jersey Shore "celebrity" have better access to healthcare than a middle school teacher? What is our philosophical foundation with respect to health in this country?
To truly put a dent in healthcare spending we could:
1. Eliminate Medicare and Medicaid. With the growing inequality gap and the inability of CEOs to pay a living wage, this will surely end well for our seniors and those who will not have a very large nest egg for retirement.
2. We can repeal Obamacare and everyone can be on their own for health insurance. Let's see how that works.
****3. We can, as a nation, get healthy!!! Yeah right. it is asking too much for the average American to shun the drive-thru and get off the fucking couch and detach themselves form the spell of the boob-tube.
In the end, nothing will bend the cost curve in any significant way. Single-payer? We're too unhealthy of a country and the few will ruin it for the many. That is what being part of a society is: it is always the few ruining it for the majority. When we can take the time to eat well and exercise, then maybe single-payer would be the way to go. But, we as a nation, are too stupid and lazy.
I know I didn't answer your question as you would have hoped. To put it simply, the cost curve will not bend as long as insurance companies are involved and as long s we are as stupid and lazy a group of people as we are.
Here's to you as well, sir!
For a consistent and well-played position on this forum I enjoy so much... I offer you a Wisers Society of Uncompromising Men 'slow clap'.
Interesting story. I was mostly struck by this:
Douglas Zehner is the senior vice president and chief financial officer at MedStar Washington Hospital Center in northwest Washington, where Boone was treated. He said Medstar gave $22.1 million worth of care to uninsured or underinsured patients and forgave $85.1 million in debt last year. But that charity isn't free. The only way the hospital can recoup its losses, Zehner said, is by negotiating with private insurance providers for higher prices, a process known as "cost-shifting."
"I have to price my services with insurance carriers because that’s the only group I'm even in the room talking to about how much they're going to pay me for my services," Zehner said. "So the way the cost-shifting works is you basically back into how much [money] you need to run that service [for all patients] and apply it to the expected number of people that are coming in that have insurance to get that service."
The fewer people who have insurance, the greater the burden on those who do have coverage. In order to cover the costs of treating the uninsured, premiums go up. The American Hospital Association estimated that U.S. hospitals performed $39.3 billion worth of uncompensated care in 2010, the most recent year for which numbers are available. That's 5.8 percent of total expenses.
This is a problem that Obama's health care law seeks to address and one that Romney himself has acknowledged in the past, before he began pursuing the Republican presidential nomination.
"Look, it doesn't make a lot of sense for us to have millions and millions of people who have no health insurance and yet who can go to the emergency room and get entirely free care for which they have no responsibility, particularly if they are people who have sufficient means to pay their own way," he said in 2010.
In 2007, he used even starker language: "When [uninsured people] show up at the hospital, they get care. They get free care paid for by you and me. If that's not a form of socialism, I don't know what is."
Boone, who considers himself relatively apolitical, said he "absolutely" looks forward to the full implementation of Obamacare. "I'm so excited that this is happening," he said.
Given his pre-existing condition, Boone said, the cost of purchasing individual health insurance was astronomical. If an insurer even made him an offer, he said, he was seeing quotes of $1,000 per month -- far beyond what he could afford. Under Obamacare, Boone should be able to find an affordable plan on the new health care "exchanges" being established in 2014.
It's not a done deal, however. Although it's unlikely that Congress will have the Republican majorities required to approve a full repeal, a Romney presidency would have ways to hobble the law's implementation, jeopardizing coverage for people like Boone.
So,what it's saying is, he de facto has coverage either way, it's just the mechanism by which the cost is covered. If you don't find a way to manage costs, it's just a shell game. And this law does nothing to effect that.
Which is essentially what I said in response to your question that you asked 3 times.
You can put a foundation in place, but in the end, in a privatized healthcare system, the insured will be at the mercy of the insurance companies, and the insurance companies will be the ones dictating cost. At the same time, we will still have Big Pharma to deal with--why the big fuss over medical marijuana? We will still have pharmaceutical sales reps who spend an obscene amount of money taking doctors golfing, out to lunch, etc., just to get their drugs in their offices. We will continue to have doctors who care more about testing patiens--that's where the $$ is--than treating patients.
The problem is PEOPLE. The problem is the lust for $$$$ over all else; the problem is an unhealthy, fast food, boob tube addicted portion of society. The problem is PEOPLE.
So it goes, so it goes, so it goes.
yeah, I'm in med device sales. as I stated numerous times in this thread. try reading, it's good for you.
not all med device companies make profits...not even close. you'd be surprised at how poorly a lot of companies are run.
also, it's pharma reps who were big on taking docs out to lunches and golf outings. all of which is now against the law. they can't even give pens away anymore.
you're obviously up past your bedtime on this topic. study up and come back when you have a clue
OK, so according to you I'm out of my league. keep making blanket statements. you sound brilliant
you also say that obamacare has not led to job cuts. um, might want to check the news. you will be surprised to learn that domestic companies are in fact laying people off in lue of obamacare. that's what initiated my OP
you should be thanking those of us paying our taxes. we're the ones paying for you
you're welcome
your last line is one of the biggest problems in this country...sense of entitlement. the man is supposed to give, give, give
He credits Obama like he devised this monstrosity bill, that was actually written years ago by the Apollo Alliance. LOL Obama gets all the credit and all the blame....so which one will win out? Many people dont understand that the only revenue that comes in....is from %53 of our nation!
A man that stands for nothing....will fall for anything!
All people need to do more on every level!
Craze
Emoticon
Trolling or not, you really are the most useless poster on this entire board.
Typo Man: "Thanks kidz, but remembir, stay in skool!"
So from my entire post, you chose to keep the last few sentences and then say I only make blanket statements. Nice tactic.
I've done my research, and I happen to work with several people who know WAY more about this subject than I ever will. Having talked with them, and having done my own research, I can tell you that you are flat out wrong and are just listening to the fear mongers who say that every time Obama sneezes a billion people die.
http://www.forbes.com/sites/frederickal ... y-says-no/
You don't post anything of substance in your threads and then lash out when you get called out on it. And you wonder why nobody on here is taking you seriously. But that's fine, right? Rasmussen and Fox News have your back.
Typo Man: "Thanks kidz, but remembir, stay in skool!"
Haha....look a these lines written by a smug prick: "you're obviously up past your bedtime on this topic. study up and come back when you have a clue."And this gem: "as I stated numerous times in this thread. try reading, it's good for you."
Everyone is a condescending tough guy when on an online chat board. I would love to see you try and make these comments if we were face to face in a bar. It would never happen, but I would love it if it did. I like laughing at people who live in a constant haze testosterone induced stupidity.
I would love to know what company you work for. Why don't you post a link to back up your intimate knowledge?
I know people in the pharma sales and med device sales industries, and from what I have heard the markup on medical devices is obscene. From what I have heard the $$ spend on "schmoozing" doctors is a complete waste. It doesn't matter that this is illegal now. Do you think it still doesn't happen?
I'm not wasting any more time on a smug prick like you. It's obvious that you have a monopoly on all the knowledge associated with this topic, so we should all shut up and get out of your way.
Here are just a few articles I have come across when reading about this topic. I try to stay away from the lunatic sites, and instead try to gather as much info as possible from those sites that do not rely on fear and/or propaganda:
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-06-0 ... althy.html
http://www.cbpp.org/cms/?fa=view&id=3684
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000142 ... 88712.html
http://www.forbes.com/sites/kellyphilli ... obamacare/
Hey, you know what?
I believe I shoud be taxed on the Cadillac Health Care Insurance I am provided by my company. They are giving me a GREAT deal on access to premium care that I could not otherwise afford. I am grateful for that.
Employer provided Health Care Insurance is a benefit that holds monetary value... I really believe that it should be lumped in as part of our annual salaries as a taxable benefit.
Hail, Hail!!!
Cosmo, how do you keep a straight face responding to this drivel.
Employer provided healthcare is now something that falls under the umbrella of "sense of entitlement?" It is now part of the "give me, give me" culture?
Unreal.
another fox news reference!!! shocking!!!! NO ONE HERE MENTIONED THAT JOKE OF AN OUTLET. come up with something new. please
you should have the people who know so much more about you post here. then your posts would bring value
go back to the OP. how does that article fail to 'bring substance'?? Because of obamacare, domestic companies are cutting jobs and exporting labor. funny since two of his primary campaign platforms are increasing domestic jobs and incentivizing companies to stop sending labor overseas. if that's not a conlict of interest than I don't knw what is
I know, I know...it's never obama's fault. best president ever
And this is what you always fall back on, so we're even.
I am not an Obama sympathizer. I've made that clear.
Typo Man: "Thanks kidz, but remembir, stay in skool!"
Please, re-read the statement I made.
I am saying I am willing to help PAY for my Employer provided Health Care Insurance by having to included as part of my wages. I am GRATEFUL they offer me this access I would, otherwise, not be able to afford. I should include the company provided insurance on my 1040 Form as income because I benefit from it.. but, only pay $460 of the $6,463 value of the coverage.
Hail, Hail!!!
again, all. over. the. place.
here are a few quotes that you actually used. then you try to make an intelligent post. um, doesn't work
'It would never happen, but I would love it if it did'
'from what I have heard the markup on med devices is obscene'. Nice source, and certainly not proof that all device companies make money or have the ability to incur a meaningless tax hike
'from what I have heard (AGAIN!! you 'hear' a lot of stuff, you shoudl be a reporter) the money spent on schmoozing doctros is a complete waste'
'I try to gather as much info as possible from sites that do not rely on fear and propaganda' um, I never posted links to any progaganda websites. just a press release based on recent happenings in the device industry
keep believing everything you 'hear and keep ignoring those who actually work in the indsutry for a living. I mentioned my job in the thread. again, reading...try it
You love blanket statements. what's your point?
last time I checked they are called 'benefits' for a reaason. it's not mandatory that employers provide healthcare to their employees
Once again, all over the place.
Reading your posts I envision my 3 year old nephew who is pissed off because he can't have ice cream.
How am I ignoring people in the industry? That's where I get my information from.
How do I know that you are in the industry? What proof do I have of that?
Keep comfy in that nice ego-protected womb you rest in.
I work in med sales dude...I have mentioned that a few times. You're not very good at reading.
funny that even the liberal turds are now pulling back on parts of obamacare...specifically, the device tax
what a fucking disaster...'change' that equals less domestic jobs. what an ass hole
http://www.freeenterprise.com/health-ca ... t-industry
Obama is possibly the worst president ever. And obamacare is possibly the worst thing ever (even worse tahn ruben amaro, which is virtually impossible)
You act like conservatives are any better.
From an independent viewpoint, both sides suck, and yes, Obama is not a great president, but then again no president is perfect and is liked by all.
Complaining about Obamacare, especially when it hasn't been out long, is pointless. If it turns out horribly bad then the next President, who will probably be Republican based off America's recent flip-flop voting, will end it.
You can spend your time alone, redigesting past regrets, oh
or you can come to terms and realize
you're the only one who can't forgive yourself, oh
makes much more sense to live in the present tense - Present Tense
my new hero, dr. mark (i think is his name)
at first glance some of you will think he is an idiot with wild hair & goofy makeup
he is a wonderful psychiatrist with a genius brain
watch his videos
"Hear me, my chiefs!
I am tired; my heart is
sick and sad. From where
the sun stands I will fight
no more forever."
Chief Joseph - Nez Perce
Not only was it totally predictable - they created the situation!!!! How could they not see that plans they outlawed would be terminated? How does one go about being that stupid?