Obamacare sucks

The Fixer

I'm in medical sales. I have a number of manufacturers that I represent, with Welch Allyn being one of my most prominent product lines. Family owned and operated in upstate NY...great people at this private company. Reading this article and firsthand seeing good people that I work with being let go so that 'free' healthcare can be given away to those who can't support themselves is flat out wrong.

My mind was already made up on who I'm voting for. This is just another reason why I cannot support Obama.


Medical Device Tax Blamed for Welch Allyn Layoffs


By: Jamie Hartford
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Welch Allyn yesterday became the latest medical device company to announce a round of layoffs it’s blaming on the medical device tax.

The Skaneateles Falls, NY-based manufacturer of medical diagnostic and therapeutic devices, cardiac defibrillators, patient monitoring systems, and miniature precision lamps says it will eliminate around 275 jobs over the next three years through voluntary and involuntary measures. The layoffs will affect around 10% of the company’s 2,750 employees. Welch Allyn will also perform a 90-day evaluation of its European operations and reorganize its business in Latin America.

As part of the restructuring, the company will consolidate its North American manufacturing. Production of its patient monitoring, systems, and low acuity vital signs products will move from Beaverton, OR, to Skaneateles Falls, while production of thermometer probe covers, lamps, and some blood pressure cuff will move from Skaneateles Falls to Tijuana Mexico, where the company also plans to open a shared service center. Welch Allyn will also open three new product development centers, in Skaneateles Falls; Beaverton, OR; and Singapore.

"This restructuring plan will help us maintain competitive levels of investment in new products and technologies that are necessary to meet the changing needs of the global healthcare environment," CEO Steve Meyer said in a statement.

Welch Allyn’s announcement comes less than a week after Medtronic announced that has cut about half of the 1,000 positions it intends to eliminate by the end of 2013 in an attempt to save as much as $125 million and less than two weeks after St. Jude Medical laid off 300 workers in a bid to save up to $60 million starting next year. On August 29, Reuters reported that Boston Scientific is also planning an unspecified number of layoffs.

Welch Allyn is also among the growing medical device companies that have blamed the 2.3% medical tax included in the Affordable Care Act for layoffs. Stryker cited that tax in its decision to eliminate 5% of its workforce last November. In late July, Cook Medical said it would curb plans for growth due to the tax, which is set to take effect in January.




http://www.mddionline.com/article/medic ... yn-layoffs

Johnny Abruzzo

I would agree that the medical device manufacturers were unfairly targeted in Obamacare. If I happened to work in that industry, I could see why one would be opposed to the law.

At least if you got laid off or your daughter had a preexisting condition you could get insurance...

BinFrog

Well at least that's the entire story.

Oh, right.

http://www.tnr.com/blog/plank/107878/um ... evice-tax#

Godfather.

:thumbup:
to some on here 275 job's is a small price to pay for Nobama care but X's that by a few thousand other plants/employers that will also lay off many employees because of this "great idea"...yea it sucks !!!

Godfather.

Godfather.

Johnny Abruzzo wrote:

I would agree that the medical device manufacturers were unfairly targeted in Obamacare. If I happened to work in that industry, I could see why one would be opposed to the law.

At least if you got laid off or your daughter had a preexisting condition you could get insurance...

he would have had insc. had he not been layed off in the name of Obamacare.


Godfather.

Cliffy6745

And the Bloomberg editorial that the article above references

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-06-0 ... althy.html

I haven't spoken to analysts and am not going to claim to be an expert on the topic and medical devices may have a case if they are being taxed more than other healtcare verticals, but simple supply and demand would indicate this doesn't necessarily add up.

usamamasan1

Look what I found. I didn't fact check though.

Woot

The word "Dhimmitude" is found in the new health care bill;
so what does it mean?

Thought this was interesting and worth passing on.

Dhimmitude


Obama used it in the health care bill.
Now isn't this interesting?
It is also included in the health care law.

Dhimmitude -- I had never heard the word until now. Type it into
Google and start reading. Pretty interesting. It's on page 107 of the
healthcare bill.  I looked this up on Google and yep, it exists.  It is a
REAL word.


Dhimmitude is the Muslim system of controlling non-Muslim populations
conquered through jihad (Holy War). Specifically, it is the TAXING of

non-Muslims in exchange for tolerating their presence AND as a coercive

means of converting conquered remnants to Islam.



ObamaCare allows the establishment of Dhimmitude and Sharia Muslim
diktat in the United States . Muslims are specifically exempted from
the government mandate to purchase insurance, and also from the
penalty tax for being uninsured. Islam considers insurance to be
"gambling", "risk-taking", and "usury" and is thus banned. Muslims are
specifically granted exemption based on this.



How convenient. So I, as a Christian, will have crippling IRS liens
placed against all of my assets, including real estate, cattle, and
even accounts receivable, and will face hard prison time because I
refuse to buy insurance or pay the penalty tax. Meanwhile, Louis
Farrakhan will have no such penalty and will have 100% of his health
insurance needs paid for by the de facto government insurance.
Non-Muslims will be paying a tax to subsidize Muslims. This is Dhimmitude.

Johnny Abruzzo

BinFrog wrote:

Well at least that's the entire story.

Oh, right.

http://www.tnr.com/blog/plank/107878/um ... evice-tax#

It's a little weird that a 2.3% tax could cause layoffs of 10% of employees. Couldn't you just pass the cost along to the providers?

Well, I said I thought it was an unfair target of the law, and the law clearly has some issues that I hope everybody can work out after this election is over, i.e. put in malpractice reform, increase flexibility for high-deductible plans with HSA's.


Auto response from some right wing person: This law is terrible and the whole thing has to be repealed.

Cliffy6745

Oh god

Johnny Abruzzo

Cliffy6745 wrote:

Oh god

You mean Allah.

polaris_x

the thing also is that the entire political discourse has become so toxic that it's hard to take anything at face value ... a company may institute layoffs for political purposes under the guise of the tax ... if these companies are publicly traded - it would be interesting to see their financial statements ...

it should be quite simple ... is demand higher with the tax or not ...

Cliffy6745

Johnny Abruzzo wrote:

BinFrog wrote:

Well at least that's the entire story.

Oh, right.

http://www.tnr.com/blog/plank/107878/um ... evice-tax#

It's a little weird that a 2.3% tax could cause layoffs of 10% of employees. Couldn't you just pass the cost along to the providers?

Well, I said I thought it was an unfair target of the law, and the law clearly has some issues that I hope everybody can work out after this election is over, i.e. put in malpractice reform, increase flexibility for high-deductible plans with HSA's.


Auto response from some right wing person: This law is terrible and the whole thing has to be repealed.

You were just one upped. It's muslim law.

Cliffy6745

Johnny Abruzzo wrote:

Cliffy6745 wrote:

Oh god

You mean Allah.

Johnny Abruzzo

polaris_x wrote:

the thing also is that the entire political discourse has become so toxic that it's hard to take anything at face value ... a company may institute layoffs for political purposes under the guise of the tax ... if these companies are publicly traded - it would be interesting to see their financial statements ...

it should be quite simple ... is demand higher with the tax or not ...

Perhaps the problem is that the tax started already but the additional people won't be covered until 2014, so there is a gap and layoffs are required to survive the gap.

I'm trying to be rational here, unlike some people. :roll:

The Fixer

Johnny Abruzzo wrote:

I would agree that the medical device manufacturers were unfairly targeted in Obamacare. If I happened to work in that industry, I could see why one would be opposed to the law.

At least if you got laid off or your daughter had a preexisting condition you could get insurance...

I'm not getting laid off. I did find out that in lue of this news that my Welch Allyn products will incur a 20% price increase. That should really help my sales numbers :roll:

Combine that with the fact that good, hard-working people are losing their jobs thru no fault of their own...and yeah, it's frustrating

Johnny Abruzzo

Cliffy6745 wrote:

You were just one upped. It's muslim law.

Yeah, I can't say I was expecting that.

Godfather.

usamamasan1 wrote:

Look what I found. I didn't fact check though.

Woot

The word "Dhimmitude" is found in the new health care bill;
so what does it mean?

Thought this was interesting and worth passing on.

Dhimmitude


Obama used it in the health care bill.
Now isn't this interesting?
It is also included in the health care law.

Dhimmitude -- I had never heard the word until now. Type it into
Google and start reading. Pretty interesting. It's on page 107 of the
healthcare bill.  I looked this up on Google and yep, it exists.  It is a
REAL word.


Dhimmitude is the Muslim system of controlling non-Muslim populations
conquered through jihad (Holy War). Specifically, it is the TAXING of

non-Muslims in exchange for tolerating their presence AND as a coercive

means of converting conquered remnants to Islam.



ObamaCare allows the establishment of Dhimmitude and Sharia Muslim
diktat in the United States . Muslims are specifically exempted from
the government mandate to purchase insurance, and also from the
penalty tax for being uninsured. Islam considers insurance to be
"gambling", "risk-taking", and "usury" and is thus banned. Muslims are
specifically granted exemption based on this.



How convenient. So I, as a Christian, will have crippling IRS liens
placed against all of my assets, including real estate, cattle, and
even accounts receivable, and will face hard prison time because I
refuse to buy insurance or pay the penalty tax. Meanwhile, Louis
Farrakhan will have no such penalty and will have 100% of his health
insurance needs paid for by the de facto government insurance.
Non-Muslims will be paying a tax to subsidize Muslims. This is Dhimmitude.

your post just made hate obama....I thought he was a usless piece of shit.


Godfather.

The Fixer

BinFrog wrote:

Well at least that's the entire story.

Oh, right.

http://www.tnr.com/blog/plank/107878/um ... evice-tax#

The logic behind the tax was simple: expanding coverage to 30 million new people will bring new business to medical device makers, as it would to insurers, hospitals and drug companies, and so device makers, like those other sectors, would chip in for a share of the cost. Hardly had Obama’s signature dried, though, than medical device makers started agitating against the tax, saying it would force layoffs and undermine innovation


read the last line...um, that's EXACTLY what has happened here

BinFrog

The Fixer wrote:

Johnny Abruzzo wrote:

I would agree that the medical device manufacturers were unfairly targeted in Obamacare. If I happened to work in that industry, I could see why one would be opposed to the law.

At least if you got laid off or your daughter had a preexisting condition you could get insurance...

I'm not getting laid off. I did find out that in lue of this news that my Welch Allyn products will incur a 20% price increase. That should really help my sales numbers :roll:

Combine that with the fact that good, hard-working people are losing their jobs thru no fault of their own...and yeah, it's frustrating

The tax is their excuse for layoffs, and they are using layoffs for political purposes.

Your 20% cost increase is not due to the ~2% tax.

The Fixer

polaris_x wrote:

the thing also is that the entire political discourse has become so toxic that it's hard to take anything at face value ... a company may institute layoffs for political purposes under the guise of the tax ... if these companies are publicly traded - it would be interesting to see their financial statements ...

it should be quite simple ... is demand higher with the tax or not ...

you must have missed my OP, which states that Welch Allyn is a private company

you can't walk into any doctors office in the US without seeing something made by Welch Allyn

polaris_x

Godfather. wrote:

usamamasan1 wrote:

Look what I found. I didn't fact check though.

Woot

The word "Dhimmitude" is found in the new health care bill;
so what does it mean?

Thought this was interesting and worth passing on.

Dhimmitude


Obama used it in the health care bill.
Now isn't this interesting?
It is also included in the health care law.

Dhimmitude -- I had never heard the word until now. Type it into
Google and start reading. Pretty interesting. It's on page 107 of the
healthcare bill.  I looked this up on Google and yep, it exists.  It is a
REAL word.


Dhimmitude is the Muslim system of controlling non-Muslim populations
conquered through jihad (Holy War). Specifically, it is the TAXING of

non-Muslims in exchange for tolerating their presence AND as a coercive

means of converting conquered remnants to Islam.



ObamaCare allows the establishment of Dhimmitude and Sharia Muslim
diktat in the United States . Muslims are specifically exempted from
the government mandate to purchase insurance, and also from the
penalty tax for being uninsured. Islam considers insurance to be
"gambling", "risk-taking", and "usury" and is thus banned. Muslims are
specifically granted exemption based on this.



How convenient. So I, as a Christian, will have crippling IRS liens
placed against all of my assets, including real estate, cattle, and
even accounts receivable, and will face hard prison time because I
refuse to buy insurance or pay the penalty tax. Meanwhile, Louis
Farrakhan will have no such penalty and will have 100% of his health
insurance needs paid for by the de facto government insurance.
Non-Muslims will be paying a tax to subsidize Muslims. This is Dhimmitude.

your post just made hate obama....I thought he was a usless piece of shit.


Godfather.

why do you folks continue to show your lack of independent thought? ... seriously, aren't you embarrassed every time you fall for one of these things?? ... you would think after the first dozen or so - you would take a step back and say - this sounds too absurd even tho I don't like Obama and check it ...

http://urbanlegends.about.com/od/govern ... andate.htm

Johnny Abruzzo

I, of course, wouldn't expect you to fact check yourselves.

http://www.factcheck.org/2010/05/dhimmitude-and-the-muslim-exemption/

Q: Will Muslim Americans be exempt from the mandate to have health insurance?

A: The Muslim faith does not forbid purchasing health insurance, and no Muslim group has ever been considered exempt under the definitions used in the health care law.

FULL QUESTION

Are Muslims exempted from the new health care law? Is any of the following chain e-mail true?

Word of the Day: Dhimmitude

Dhimmitude is the Muslim system of controlling non-muslim populations conquered through jihad. Specifically, it is the TAXING of non-muslims in exchange for tolerating their presence AND as a coercive means of converting conquered remnants to islam.

The ObamaCare bill is the establishment of Dhimmitude and Sharia muslim diktat in the United States . Muslims are specifically exempted from the government mandate to purchase insurance, and also from the penalty tax for being uninsured. Islam considers insurance to be "gambling", "risk-taking" and "usury" and is thus banned. Muslims are specifically granted exemption based on this.

FULL ANSWER

In our article "More Malarkey About Health Care," we wrote that some religious groups may indeed be considered exempt from the requirement to have health insurance. The law defines exempt groups using the definition from 26 U.S. Code section 1402(g)(1), which describes the religious groups currently considered exempt from Social Security payroll taxes. Eligible sects must forbid any payout in the event of death, disability, old age or retirement, including Social Security and Medicare.

Since we posted our article, we’ve obtained a list through the Freedom of Information Act of all the groups that have successfully applied for exemptions from payroll taxes. (We have posted the Excel file here.) The overwhelming majority of them are explicitly Anabaptist — that is, Mennonite, Amish or Hutterite. Those that don’t specify their denomination are still explicitly Christian. Having gone through the list, we can say with certainty that no Muslim group, and indeed no non-Christian group, has ever qualified for an exemption under the statute used to define exempt religious groups in the health care law.

Nor are they likely to want to, says Ibrahim Hooper of the Council on American-Islamic Relations, which opposes discrimination and defamation against Muslims. "I’ve never even heard it brought up as an issue," Hooper told us. "I have health insurance. We give health insurance to our employees. Every Muslim group I know of does the same thing." Hooper told us that he has seen some Muslims raise religious objections to life insurance, but not health insurance, and that, in fact, providing health coverage is very much in line with Islamic ideals of social justice.

As for "dhimmitude," it’s a politically charged academic concept, not a tenet of Muslim faith. The term was coined by scholar Bat Ye’or to describe the condition of the "dhimmis," protected non-Muslims living in Muslim empires starting in the 7th century. Dhimmi populations, Ye’or says, were allowed by their lands’ Muslim conquerors to keep property and practice their faith, as long as they paid a poll tax. It is Ye’or’s assertion that the condition of dhimmitude still persists in countries under shari’a law, and that, furthermore, it is spreading worldwide. In particular, she says, Europeans are accepting a state of dhimmitude and moving toward becoming "Eurabia." This position is controversial, and Ye’or is not secretive about her political commitments. For instance, she is a vocal supporter of Geert Wilders, the Dutch politician who was once banned from the United Kingdom because of his inflammatory anti-Islam views. For the e-mail to present "dhimmitude" as an established Muslim value rather than a scholarly concept from an author with open political commitments is misleading.

Finally, the e-mail repeats one other claim we’ve debunked before. It says that "I … will face hard prison time because I refuse to buy insurance or pay the penalty tax." This is false. The House version of the bill left open the possibility of criminal penalties for deliberately evading a tax for not having health insurance, but the Senate version did not, nor did the final law.

– Jess Henig

EDIT: someone else beat me to it, but factcheck.org is always reliable.

Don't let your posts be dictated by fact checkers.

polaris_x

The Fixer wrote:

polaris_x wrote:

the thing also is that the entire political discourse has become so toxic that it's hard to take anything at face value ... a company may institute layoffs for political purposes under the guise of the tax ... if these companies are publicly traded - it would be interesting to see their financial statements ...

it should be quite simple ... is demand higher with the tax or not ...

you must have missed my OP, which states that Welch Allyn is a private company

you can't walk into any doctors office in the US without seeing something made by Welch Allyn

no ... i got that ... i was speaking in general terms as one company may have layoffs while others may hire ... all i'm saying is that without knowing what the actual results are - one can speculate on motivation ... would like to see the actual statements from companies ...

polaris_x

Johnny Abruzzo wrote:

EDIT: someone else beat me to it, but factcheck.org is always reliable.

Don't let your posts be dictated by fact checkers.

like ... is brainwashed too strong here? ...

Johnny Abruzzo

polaris_x wrote:

Johnny Abruzzo wrote:

EDIT: someone else beat me to it, but factcheck.org is always reliable.

Don't let your posts be dictated by fact checkers.

like ... is brainwashed too strong here? ...

But I got an e-mail from my uncle who's really smart and knows this stuff and it said that the Muslim passed this law that blah blah blah...

The Fixer

Cliffy6745 wrote:

And the Bloomberg editorial that the article above references

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-06-0 ... althy.html

I haven't spoken to analysts and am not going to claim to be an expert on the topic and medical devices may have a case if they are being taxed more than other healtcare verticals, but simple supply and demand would indicate this doesn't necessarily add up.

Dude, this article is 4 months old. Ie, published before all of these layoffs started

So, if you look at the projected layoffs and impact of moving overseas in the article...then compare it to the recent events in the med device industry...it looks to me like your article is dead wrong

Cosmo

usamamasan1 wrote:

Look what I found. I didn't fact check though.

...
Hint: Maybe you should have...
http://www.snopes.com/politics/medical/exemptions.asp

polaris_x

Johnny Abruzzo wrote:

But I got an e-mail from my uncle who's really smart and knows this stuff and it said that the Muslim passed this law that blah blah blah...

like ... this whole muslim thing is so ridiculous ... it really shows how ignorant a large swath of the population really are ... the amount of time and energy wasted from his birth certificate to this kind of garbage is actually time one could spend educating themselves ...

polaris_x

sorry Fixer for the derail ...

i would say - let's see the whole story ... it's really fairly simple ... if there are more layoffs than hiring/sales ... then it clearly didn't work ... but we can't simply discount the political motivations of some companies ...

bellosjam

Medical device reps and pharmaceutical reps are way overpaid for what little training they have. These 6-figure employment opportunities are basically glorified sales positions which are universally commission driven, the end-game being increasing profits for both pharmaceutical and medical device companys. These inflated salaries are ultimately passed on to the patients through increased cost of services/products. If any pharmaceutical or medical device company decides to layoff workers because of cost cutting proposals included in Obamacare than that just tough luck for a small, essentially unskilled, portion of the work force that again was overcompensated for their knowledge base and skill level. And just to clarify, pharmaceutical and medical device representative layoffs began way before Obamacare was passed.

usamamasan1

Thanks for fact checking for me, I love this community.

Now I know and knowing is half the battle!
Carry on
Woot