I recall Eddie making fun of coorporations offering money to use Betterman in a Dodge commercial jingle.."Can't find a better van"..."Alive" in a Viagra commericial.."I'm still Alive" with a dancing penis..and really giving it to MTV @ the Singles party in PJ20 getting super trashed...the infamous "beginning of no"..
Eddie was quoted in PJ20 that alot of what they did early on was to counter the cooporate rock image that Kurt Cobain had said they had @ the beginning of their career.
This is just so contrary to what they previously stood for.
Makes me wonder ....is this the "Beginning of Yes"??
Bridge Benefit 1994, San Francisco 1995, San Diego 1995 1 & 2, Missoula 1998, Los Angeles 2000, San Diego 2000, Eddie Vedder/Beck 2/26/2002, Santa Barbara 2003, Irvine 2003, San Diego 2003, Vancouver 2005, Gorge 2005, San Diego 2006, Los Angeles 2006 1 & 2, Santa Barbara 2006, Eddie Vedder 4/10/08, Eddie Vedder 4/12/08, Eddie Vedder 4/15/08, 7/12/2008, SF 8/28/09, LA 9/30/09, LA 10/1/09, LA 10/06/09, LA 10/07/09, San Diego 10/09/09, Eddie Vedder 7/6/2011, Eddie Vedder 7/8/2011, PJ20 9/3/2011, PJ20 9/4/2011, Vancouver 9/25/2011, San Diego 11/21/13, LA 11/24/13, Ohana 9/25/21, Ohana 9/26/21, Ohana 10/1/21, EV 2/17/22, LA Forum 5/6/22, LA Forum 5/7/22, EV 10/1/22, EV 9/30/23
I recall Eddie making fun of coorporations offering money to use Betterman in a Dodge commercial jingle.."Can't find a better van"...
Greek Theatre, 2000 tour. Dodge banners were hanging outside the venue. Eddie said they refused to play until they were taken down.
People are allowed to change their minds/stances on what they believe in. I'm allowed to change my mind on how much I love this band. It's been declining for the past few years. This year was the first time I really had to think about renewing for another year of the fan club. This Oracle show might be the final straw. I don't know yet, I'm still trying to process this whole thing. And it doesn't appear that any answers are forthcoming to help me alleviate my confusion over it.
Eddie said at Storytellers that the fans had changed the meaning of Alive. It appears that the meaning of Not For You has changed as well. As a Bay Area resident, this gig is Not For Me.
This doesn't really upset me. I mean the band has played SNL how many times? And back when they played the show NBC was owned by GE. And with all the divisions GE has (including ones that make military equipment, ones that make nuclear reactors, and ones in the oil and gas field) supporting GE should upset people way more than supporting a company that makes military equipment. If anyone can explain why it doesn't I would be interested.
I was drawn to PJ at the start because I was an idealistic young man, and because they played some amazing music. I agreed with most of what they believed in (or vice versa, if you want). Over the years I have seen this band (especially Vedder) slowly veer away from the ideals,if not the music, that made them so appealing to me in the early 90's, culminating in this bullshit.
Music to me is more than just a hobby, it's a way of life, I'm sure I'm not alone. This is why the decision to play an event like this is so disappointing.
OK, I knew they weren't Crass or Fugazi but I was under the impression that they had some ideals left, obviously I was wrong, and I’m absolutely gutted. I’m sure I’ll be accused of taking this too seriously, maybe I am but this is how I feel. This shit matters to me.
This is the end of PJ as we know them, certainly for me it is, I just can’t let this slide, I wish I could, but I can’t, I've lost all respect for them.
I'd be very interested to hear what Ian MacKaye or Neil Young have to say about this.
This is just plain wrong, take off those PJ tinted specs and Flex Your Head.
No need for ANYONE to apologize for taking it seriously or for any other feelings about this. I think your feelings are totally valid... everyone's feelings about this are valid, whatever they are (the criticism of how people are feelings is annoying). Because I don't want to feel the sensation of being completely jaded, and because I have some faith left, I've chosen to write this off as a mistake that won't be repeated. My love for the band is still stable. If they keep doing shit like this, my disappointment will deepen.
PS - I wish Fugazi would come out of their indefinite hiatus. That would make me feel much better!
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
i hate them now! anthony never would have done this in 1986! he told us so! i will never buy another thing from them, their music lost all meaning, they are sellouts, we have nothing in common anymore! i resent their ability to perform their trade to make a living!
this thread is a joke.
I don't know much about the Chili Peppers but I've never heard them to be a preachy band like PJ was.
No, they aren't. We're talking about PJ here. Whole other story from other bands. Plus, the RHCP are not very good... you can listen to them for about 10 minutes, and you've pretty much listened to everything they can do. So I don't give a shit what they're up to. Just sayin'.
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
I'd be very interested to hear what Ian MacKaye or Neil Young have to say about this.
Neil Young may be hard to get a hold of. He spends his summers playing the Budweiser and Coke stages at festivals all over the world. This note really was for them! Not to mention he has ties with Apple now.
By the way, does anyone remember using Real Player? Funny story about a party they threw 10 years ago.......
This doesn't really upset me. I mean the band has played SNL how many times? And back when they played the show NBC was owned by GE. And with all the divisions GE has (including ones that make military equipment, ones that make nuclear reactors, and ones in the oil and gas field) supporting GE should upset people way more than supporting a company that makes military equipment. If anyone can explain why it doesn't I would be interested.
It's moreso the fact that's it's a corporate convention/conference. Don't think they played GE's yearly company meeting.
can this alone make you not listen to them anymore?
or are you a lover of ten through binaural and this just makes it easier to cut the cord?
I love all their stuff and will always listen to them no matter how bad it gets, even tho stuff like this is a major piss off
Ditto.
Plus, if this kind of thing keeps happening, I think my deeper passion for the band would be diminished. It wouldn't ever affect how much I love the sound of the music, but my "obsession" runs deeper than that, and that's what would be threatened. I am not at that point now though.
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
can this alone make you not listen to them anymore?
or are you a lover of ten through binaural and this just makes it easier to cut the cord?
You've made many good and significant points in this thread and to answer your question, I will always love the band's music that I love now. I didn't find myself blown away by Backspacer and I saw that type of album coming when the Sony deal had run it's course as it's probably harder to find a market for PJ independently after so many years on a major label. Yeah, Target and the deal done with them was a corporate move but then so was signing to Sony, playing sponsored festivals and Ticketmaster venues, etc. I won't stop listening because of this one thing alone as for me it will always be about the music. I do think some of the band's credibility has been lost through this especially as they have decided to remain silent on the subject so far and I wouldn't be too surprised if album sales slumped a bit more next time. On the other hand they are still winning new fans, fans who don't care about the 90's or whether the die-hards consider their new favourite band to be hypocritical sell outs. There is a reason for playing this show that up until now we are unaware of and I'm pretty divided on whether I actually care anymore or not? I just want the band to record a credible new album and bring it on the road yet at the back of my mind there is the disappointing thought that this is purely a take the money and run gig that they honestly don't need to do. Something about this doesn't smell right for sure but I'm not convinced there isn't some underlying reason that will make the reactions of some people here look a bit over the top when the truth comes out? Right now it looks very anti-PJ and yes, I do understand why there's so many pages here already and many angry/disappointed reactions among them. I think if you want to accuse PJ of being sellouts now then you're probably already too late but until they start doing high profile, heavily advertised tours sponsored by Coca-Cola or some other brand name I guess they'll still be my cup of tea. Unless in future they keep on producing Backspacer standard albums! :?
Like a book among the many on a shelf...
Dublin 02 Arena - 22/6/10. Belfast Odyssey Arena - 23/6/10. London Hyde Park - 25/6/10. Berlin Wuhlheide - 30/6/10.
Manchester MEN - 20/06/12. Manchester MEN - 21/06/12
I care more about the Eagles 4th string cornerbacks right now.
As long as they bring it to every concert that's all that matters. And for what it's worth...I think they need to come out with more merch. I want to rock some cool PJ gear and not every 5 years a backpack comes out drop $200 for it.
To me, they fought a huge, huge uphill battle with that choices and stances they made in the '90s and now that they are older and have an established fan base they deserve to sit back and do whatever the hell they want to do. I can't stand at all when bands get into politics at all and I cringe when Eddie starts ranting about Obama or whatever the heck he talks about. But at the end of the day it's about 2-3 minutes out of a 2 and a half hour concert and I'll deal with it.
Hey, it's America baby....make all the damn money you want. I won't stop you
O and it looks like the Discover option for $75 gets you in. At least from what I saw real fast...not sure if someone else dove a little deeper and I'm wrong?
O and it looks like the Discover option for $75 gets you in. At least from what I saw real fast...not sure if someone else dove a little deeper and I'm wrong?
Yes you're wrong :(
"The good thing about science is that it's true whether or not you believe in it"
Neil deGrasse Tyson
O and it looks like the Discover option for $75 gets you in. At least from what I saw real fast...not sure if someone else dove a little deeper and I'm wrong?
Yes you're wrong :(
Figured it was too good to be true. I'm not going so I gave it the good ol' half-ass attempt.
O and it looks like the Discover option for $75 gets you in. At least from what I saw real fast...not sure if someone else dove a little deeper and I'm wrong?
Yes you're wrong :(
Figured it was too good to be true. I'm not going so I gave it the good ol' half-ass attempt.
1998 - Noblesville 2000 - Noblesville 2010 - Noblesville 2011 - EV solo St Louis, PJ20 Alpine Valley 2012 - San Fran (Oracle) 2013 - Wrigley, Pittsburgh, Buffalo 2014 - Cincy, St Louis, Detroit 2016 - Lexington, Wrigley 2018 - Wrigley 2022 - Nashville, St Louis
Wait just a minute - I think I've misunderstood something here...Pearl Jam is NOT playing a private show for that lady from the Matrix?
Osaka, Japan (2/21/95), San Diego (7/10/98), Las Vegas (10/22/00), San Diego (10/25/00), Las Vegas (6/6/03), Las Vegas (7/6/06), Los Angeles (7/9/06), VH1 Rock Honors (7/12/08), Ed Solo (7/8/11), Ed Solo (11/1/12), Los Angeles (11/23/13)
This doesn't really upset me. I mean the band has played SNL how many times? And back when they played the show NBC was owned by GE. And with all the divisions GE has (including ones that make military equipment, ones that make nuclear reactors, and ones in the oil and gas field) supporting GE should upset people way more than supporting a company that makes computer equipment. If anyone can explain why it doesn't I would be interested.
It's moreso the fact that's it's a corporate convention/conference. Don't think they played GE's yearly company meeting.
Still playing SNL pretty directly benefited GE as a company the same way playing this event is benefiting Oracle. Plus knowing how hard it is to get tickets to SNL I am sure the studio audience had a number of GE/NBC big wigs in it. Plus like I said why is it so much worse to be supporting a company that makes servers and Openoffice, compared to a company that actually makes nuclear reactors and military equipment?
Plus like I said why is it so much worse to be supporting a company that makes servers and Openoffice, compared to a company that actually makes nuclear reactors and military equipment?
Still playing SNL pretty directly benefited GE as a company the same way playing this event is benefiting Oracle. Plus knowing how hard it is to get tickets to SNL I am sure the studio audience had a number of GE/NBC big wigs in it. Plus like I said why is it so much worse to be supporting a company that makes servers and Openoffice, compared to a company that actually makes nuclear reactors and military equipment?
even I think this one is a major stretch. playing SNL wasn't a private gig. if this was being televised, I'm sure it would be a different story.
Gimli 1993
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
Still playing SNL pretty directly benefited GE as a company the same way playing this event is benefiting Oracle. Plus knowing how hard it is to get tickets to SNL I am sure the studio audience had a number of GE/NBC big wigs in it. Plus like I said why is it so much worse to be supporting a company that makes servers and Openoffice, compared to a company that actually makes nuclear reactors and military equipment?
even I think this one is a major stretch. playing SNL wasn't a private gig. if this was being televised, I'm sure it would be a different story.
So is it the fact that the show is private that is upsetting people, not who is benefiting from the show? Would a private show for people who work for the Red Cross upset people just as much, assuming it wasn't televised? I personally don't really care I am just trying to figure out what the guidelines are for some people as to what upsets them about this kind of thing.
So is it the fact that the show is private that is upsetting people, not who is benefiting from the show? Would a private show for people who work for the Red Cross upset people just as much, assuming it wasn't televised? I personally don't really care I am just trying to figure out what the guidelines are for some people as to what upsets them about this kind of thing.
I think it's more the "corporate" aspect to this. I'm sure you could come up with any relation of everything they've ever done to being corporate. For example, the SNL-GE analogy. What about playing in a stadium/arena that is owend and operated by a coporation of some kind? Does the venue sell Coca Cola? Should the band not play those? That's what I meant about the SNL-GE thing being a bit of a stretch.
I think what people are upset about is the perception that they are playing a corporate party, for people who are linked to that corporation directly, not by six degrees of seperation.
Gimli 1993
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
I think what people are upset about is the perception that they are playing a corporate party, for people who are linked to that corporation directly, not by six degrees of seperation.
This doesn't really upset me. I mean the band has played SNL how many times? And back when they played the show NBC was owned by GE. And with all the divisions GE has (including ones that make military equipment, ones that make nuclear reactors, and ones in the oil and gas field) supporting GE should upset people way more than supporting a company that makes computer equipment. If anyone can explain why it doesn't I would be interested.
It's moreso the fact that's it's a corporate convention/conference. Don't think they played GE's yearly company meeting.
Still playing SNL pretty directly benefited GE as a company the same way playing this event is benefiting Oracle. Plus knowing how hard it is to get tickets to SNL I am sure the studio audience had a number of GE/NBC big wigs in it. Plus like I said why is it so much worse to be supporting a company that makes servers and Openoffice, compared to a company that actually makes nuclear reactors and military equipment?
It's not the same at all.
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
It's moreso the fact that's it's a corporate convention/conference. Don't think they played GE's yearly company meeting.
Still playing SNL pretty directly benefited GE as a company the same way playing this event is benefiting Oracle. Plus knowing how hard it is to get tickets to SNL I am sure the studio audience had a number of GE/NBC big wigs in it. Plus like I said why is it so much worse to be supporting a company that makes servers and Openoffice, compared to a company that actually makes nuclear reactors and military equipment?
It's not the same at all.
But why is one so much worse? I am just curious why people are so outraged about this?
Still playing SNL pretty directly benefited GE as a company the same way playing this event is benefiting Oracle. Plus knowing how hard it is to get tickets to SNL I am sure the studio audience had a number of GE/NBC big wigs in it. Plus like I said why is it so much worse to be supporting a company that makes servers and Openoffice, compared to a company that actually makes nuclear reactors and military equipment?
It's not the same at all.
But why is one so much worse? I am just curious why people are so outraged about this?
This whole thread explains that... so if you haven't read it, do, and your question will be answered.
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
Pine Knob, MI Lollapalooza 1992 / Soldier Field, Chicago 1995 / Savage Hall, Toledo 1996 / Palace, Detroit 1998 / Palace, Detroit 2000 / Pine Knob, MI 2003 / Showbox, Seattle 2004 / MSG, NYC 2008 / Key Arena I & II, Seattle 2009 / Eddie Vedder Beacon, NYC 2011 / Eddie Vedder Benaroya, Hall Seattle 2011 / Barclays, Brooklyn I &II 2013 / Wells Fargo, Philadelphia II 2013 / Wuhlheide, Berlin, Germany 2014 / Wells Fargo, Philadelphia 1 2016 / Madison Square Garden, NYC 2 2016 / Wrigley 2, Chicago 2016/ Fenway 1, Boston 2018/
Comments
Eddie was quoted in PJ20 that alot of what they did early on was to counter the cooporate rock image that Kurt Cobain had said they had @ the beginning of their career.
This is just so contrary to what they previously stood for.
Makes me wonder ....is this the "Beginning of Yes"??
Greek Theatre, 2000 tour. Dodge banners were hanging outside the venue. Eddie said they refused to play until they were taken down.
People are allowed to change their minds/stances on what they believe in. I'm allowed to change my mind on how much I love this band. It's been declining for the past few years. This year was the first time I really had to think about renewing for another year of the fan club. This Oracle show might be the final straw. I don't know yet, I'm still trying to process this whole thing. And it doesn't appear that any answers are forthcoming to help me alleviate my confusion over it.
Eddie said at Storytellers that the fans had changed the meaning of Alive. It appears that the meaning of Not For You has changed as well. As a Bay Area resident, this gig is Not For Me.
PS - I wish Fugazi would come out of their indefinite hiatus. That would make me feel much better!
Neil Young may be hard to get a hold of. He spends his summers playing the Budweiser and Coke stages at festivals all over the world. This note really was for them! Not to mention he has ties with Apple now.
By the way, does anyone remember using Real Player? Funny story about a party they threw 10 years ago.......
It's moreso the fact that's it's a corporate convention/conference. Don't think they played GE's yearly company meeting.
do you still love the band's music, and if so:
can this alone make you not listen to them anymore?
or are you a lover of ten through binaural and this just makes it easier to cut the cord?
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
I love all their stuff and will always listen to them no matter how bad it gets, even tho stuff like this is a major piss off
St.John's 9/25/2005
Toronto 9/11/2011
Toronto 9/12/2011
Quebec City 5/5/2016
Ottawa 5/8/2016
Plus, if this kind of thing keeps happening, I think my deeper passion for the band would be diminished. It wouldn't ever affect how much I love the sound of the music, but my "obsession" runs deeper than that, and that's what would be threatened. I am not at that point now though.
You've made many good and significant points in this thread and to answer your question, I will always love the band's music that I love now. I didn't find myself blown away by Backspacer and I saw that type of album coming when the Sony deal had run it's course as it's probably harder to find a market for PJ independently after so many years on a major label. Yeah, Target and the deal done with them was a corporate move but then so was signing to Sony, playing sponsored festivals and Ticketmaster venues, etc. I won't stop listening because of this one thing alone as for me it will always be about the music. I do think some of the band's credibility has been lost through this especially as they have decided to remain silent on the subject so far and I wouldn't be too surprised if album sales slumped a bit more next time. On the other hand they are still winning new fans, fans who don't care about the 90's or whether the die-hards consider their new favourite band to be hypocritical sell outs. There is a reason for playing this show that up until now we are unaware of and I'm pretty divided on whether I actually care anymore or not? I just want the band to record a credible new album and bring it on the road yet at the back of my mind there is the disappointing thought that this is purely a take the money and run gig that they honestly don't need to do. Something about this doesn't smell right for sure but I'm not convinced there isn't some underlying reason that will make the reactions of some people here look a bit over the top when the truth comes out? Right now it looks very anti-PJ and yes, I do understand why there's so many pages here already and many angry/disappointed reactions among them. I think if you want to accuse PJ of being sellouts now then you're probably already too late but until they start doing high profile, heavily advertised tours sponsored by Coca-Cola or some other brand name I guess they'll still be my cup of tea. Unless in future they keep on producing Backspacer standard albums! :?
Dublin 02 Arena - 22/6/10. Belfast Odyssey Arena - 23/6/10. London Hyde Park - 25/6/10. Berlin Wuhlheide - 30/6/10.
Manchester MEN - 20/06/12. Manchester MEN - 21/06/12
As long as they bring it to every concert that's all that matters. And for what it's worth...I think they need to come out with more merch. I want to rock some cool PJ gear and not every 5 years a backpack comes out drop $200 for it.
To me, they fought a huge, huge uphill battle with that choices and stances they made in the '90s and now that they are older and have an established fan base they deserve to sit back and do whatever the hell they want to do. I can't stand at all when bands get into politics at all and I cringe when Eddie starts ranting about Obama or whatever the heck he talks about. But at the end of the day it's about 2-3 minutes out of a 2 and a half hour concert and I'll deal with it.
Hey, it's America baby....make all the damn money you want. I won't stop you
'10- MSG 1-2 '11- PJ20
'12- MIA; DeLuna '13- Wrigley; Pitt; Brooklyn 1-2; Philly 1-2; Baltimore; Seattle
'14- Denver '16- Philly 1-2; MSG 2
'17- Pilgrimage Music Fest (Eddie)
'18- Fenway
'10- MSG 1-2 '11- PJ20
'12- MIA; DeLuna '13- Wrigley; Pitt; Brooklyn 1-2; Philly 1-2; Baltimore; Seattle
'14- Denver '16- Philly 1-2; MSG 2
'17- Pilgrimage Music Fest (Eddie)
'18- Fenway
Yes you're wrong :(
Neil deGrasse Tyson
Why not (V) (°,,,,°) (V) ?
Was installing Java when Oracle show'd up, I thought of Pearl Jam. :oops:
Figured it was too good to be true. I'm not going so I gave it the good ol' half-ass attempt.
http://www.oracle.com/openworld/register/benefits/index.html#tab
Just snagged this link and it says it gives you access to the music festival....?
'10- MSG 1-2 '11- PJ20
'12- MIA; DeLuna '13- Wrigley; Pitt; Brooklyn 1-2; Philly 1-2; Baltimore; Seattle
'14- Denver '16- Philly 1-2; MSG 2
'17- Pilgrimage Music Fest (Eddie)
'18- Fenway
Yes but the Oracle Appreciation Event is what Pearl Jam is headlining. The Oracle Music Festival is this: http://www.oracle.com/events/us/en/music-festival/index.html
2000 - Noblesville
2010 - Noblesville
2011 - EV solo St Louis, PJ20 Alpine Valley
2012 - San Fran (Oracle)
2013 - Wrigley, Pittsburgh, Buffalo
2014 - Cincy, St Louis, Detroit
2016 - Lexington, Wrigley
2018 - Wrigley
2022 - Nashville, St Louis
'10- MSG 1-2 '11- PJ20
'12- MIA; DeLuna '13- Wrigley; Pitt; Brooklyn 1-2; Philly 1-2; Baltimore; Seattle
'14- Denver '16- Philly 1-2; MSG 2
'17- Pilgrimage Music Fest (Eddie)
'18- Fenway
Oh no no no no!! :nono:
Still playing SNL pretty directly benefited GE as a company the same way playing this event is benefiting Oracle. Plus knowing how hard it is to get tickets to SNL I am sure the studio audience had a number of GE/NBC big wigs in it. Plus like I said why is it so much worse to be supporting a company that makes servers and Openoffice, compared to a company that actually makes nuclear reactors and military equipment?
what about oracle's partnership with monsanto?
https://blogs.oracle.com/exadatapartner ... _seeds_for
even I think this one is a major stretch. playing SNL wasn't a private gig. if this was being televised, I'm sure it would be a different story.
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
So is it the fact that the show is private that is upsetting people, not who is benefiting from the show? Would a private show for people who work for the Red Cross upset people just as much, assuming it wasn't televised? I personally don't really care I am just trying to figure out what the guidelines are for some people as to what upsets them about this kind of thing.
I think it's more the "corporate" aspect to this. I'm sure you could come up with any relation of everything they've ever done to being corporate. For example, the SNL-GE analogy. What about playing in a stadium/arena that is owend and operated by a coporation of some kind? Does the venue sell Coca Cola? Should the band not play those? That's what I meant about the SNL-GE thing being a bit of a stretch.
I think what people are upset about is the perception that they are playing a corporate party, for people who are linked to that corporation directly, not by six degrees of seperation.
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
ding ding ding
But why is one so much worse? I am just curious why people are so outraged about this?