Pearl Jam to play Oracle OpenWorld

SolarWorld

PJFLA wrote:

SolarWorld wrote:

Hugh Freaking Dillon wrote:

pearl jam IS a corporation, employing many people that depend on their bottom line. what is so hard to understand about that?

Technically, I would imagine Pearl Jam is set up as an LLC.

And technically, the C in LLC stands for???

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=What+does+LLC+mean%3F

PJ_Soul

Drowned Out wrote:

SolarWorld wrote:

Yeah, and the world is a very different place, the money party is over.

Intentions in the present?

HOW ABOUT PROVIDING FOR YOUR EMPLOYEES AND MAKING SURE YOUR FAMILY IS TAKEN CARE OF AFTER YOU ARE GONE.

You're pretty worked up arent ya, sunshine?
I'm sure Pj's families are going to be in line for foodstamps without this show.
I'm sure they have no other means of raising money to keep their employees paid.

As for the conference....you talk like the attendees are paying $2500 for this out of pocket, and are there solely to learn....c'mon man. Anyone who pays this out of pocket is a biz owner who is writing it off, or they're so loaded they don't give a shit how much it costs. You KNOW the average attendee was offered a trip to this thing as a perk, not as a way to further their career, or learn about the latest software. Do you work in the IT industry? I don't....but I know how it is in my industry, and every other industry that I know people in. it's a free vacation with a work veil. But keep looking down your nose with your superior worldview, telling everyone else they don't know what they're talking about....since apparently you are (sorry, your wife is) the only person who knows what goes on at biz conferences.

I'm not calling anyone money-grubbing assholes...my issue is that the band doesnt' seem to care about the optics of playing this gig...which sends a message that they don't care about their fans opinions at all. Which is fine, but like I said...the risk is losing long time fans over a one-time payday. Their prerogative.

Oh, well with that I'll disagree. Most of the people who attend these conferences are IT professionals who are sent by their employers, and the intent is indeed to learn some shit. That doesn't mean that it isn't basically a free vacation for the employee - that's still true! But it's not meant as a perk at all, and there do actually have to attend some workshops and learn something. Most employers make employees report on what it is they took away from the conference when they get back. And $2500 isn't totally out of line for such a conference. It's a bit pricey, but not way out there. That being said, I don't know a single person who wouldn't rather go and relax at a conference that offers rock concerts and parties at nice hotels after the couple of easy going and perfectly simple workshops than stay home and actually work! Because one thing that these conferences aren't is work!

PJ_Soul

Jeanwah wrote:

I think this entire thread should be placed as a reply to the "Let your voice be heard" thread.

...Since 10c wants to know...

I have a feeling someone at 10C besides Kat will be reading this thread. At least I hope so.

100 Pacer

:?

I can't believe this is such a hotly-contested issue.

They're entertainers. They're being paid to entertain. End of story.

ComeToTX

SolarWorld wrote:

Drowned Out wrote:

As for the conference....you talk like the attendees are paying $2500 for this out of pocket, and are there solely to learn....c'mon man. Anyone who pays this out of pocket is a biz owner who is writing it off, or they're so loaded they don't give a shit how much it costs. You KNOW the average attendee was offered a trip to this thing as a perk, not as a way to further their career, or learn about the latest software. Do you work in the IT industry? I don't....but I know how it is in my industry, and every other industry that I know people in. it's a free vacation with a work veil. But keep looking down your nose with your superior worldview, telling everyone else they don't know what they're talking about....since apparently you are (sorry, your wife is) the only person who knows what goes on at biz conferences.

I'm not calling anyone money-grubbing assholes...my issue is that the band doesnt' seem to care about the optics of playing this gig...which sends a message that they don't care about their fans opinions at all. Which is fine, but like I said...the risk is losing long time fans over a one-time payday. Their prerogative.

You dont have the slightest idea what, first, things cost in the Bay Area and two, what IT education costs. People in the Bay have money to pay this all day long. You are kidding yourself if you think its just companies are just writing checks sending people to these things.

And yes I WILL continue to look down my nose at people that continue to be clueless about how things work.

"Jeee wizzz, why did my favorite band that (in my little fantasy world) wants to be dirt poor and barely make it, do this cushy cooperate gig, I just cant figure it out..."

These guys were rich by 1993. Nobody wants them to be dirt poor. They're already millionaires. They have been for 20 years.

PJ_Soul

SolarWorld wrote:

Drowned Out wrote:

As for the conference....you talk like the attendees are paying $2500 for this out of pocket, and are there solely to learn....c'mon man. Anyone who pays this out of pocket is a biz owner who is writing it off, or they're so loaded they don't give a shit how much it costs. You KNOW the average attendee was offered a trip to this thing as a perk, not as a way to further their career, or learn about the latest software. Do you work in the IT industry? I don't....but I know how it is in my industry, and every other industry that I know people in. it's a free vacation with a work veil. But keep looking down your nose with your superior worldview, telling everyone else they don't know what they're talking about....since apparently you are (sorry, your wife is) the only person who knows what goes on at biz conferences.

I'm not calling anyone money-grubbing assholes...my issue is that the band doesnt' seem to care about the optics of playing this gig...which sends a message that they don't care about their fans opinions at all. Which is fine, but like I said...the risk is losing long time fans over a one-time payday. Their prerogative.

You dont have the slightest idea what, first, things cost in the Bay Area and two, what IT education costs. People in the Bay have money to pay this all day long. You are kidding yourself if you think its just companies are just writing checks sending people to these things.

And yes I WILL continue to look down my nose at people that continue to be clueless about how things work.

"Jeee wizzz, why did my favorite band that (in my little fantasy world) wants to be dirt poor and barely make it, do this cushy cooperate gig, I just cant figure it out..."

:fp: Yeah. THAT'S what we're saying. :roll: I'm starting think YOU are the one who is clueless. Until this comment, I was at least giving you credit for having on opinion based on how you interpret the world and how you personally view corporations and financial motivations. But now... not so much. So I dunno. Keep looking down your nose; it'll just make you cross-eyed.:D

rrivers

SolarWorld wrote:

Drowned Out wrote:

As for the conference....you talk like the attendees are paying $2500 for this out of pocket, and are there solely to learn....c'mon man. Anyone who pays this out of pocket is a biz owner who is writing it off, or they're so loaded they don't give a shit how much it costs. You KNOW the average attendee was offered a trip to this thing as a perk, not as a way to further their career, or learn about the latest software. Do you work in the IT industry? I don't....but I know how it is in my industry, and every other industry that I know people in. it's a free vacation with a work veil. But keep looking down your nose with your superior worldview, telling everyone else they don't know what they're talking about....since apparently you are (sorry, your wife is) the only person who knows what goes on at biz conferences.

I'm not calling anyone money-grubbing assholes...my issue is that the band doesnt' seem to care about the optics of playing this gig...which sends a message that they don't care about their fans opinions at all. Which is fine, but like I said...the risk is losing long time fans over a one-time payday. Their prerogative.

You dont have the slightest idea what, first, things cost in the Bay Area and two, what IT education costs. People in the Bay have money to pay this all day long. You are kidding yourself if you think its just companies are just writing checks sending people to these things.

And yes I WILL continue to look down my nose at people that continue to be clueless about how things work.

"Jeee wizzz, why did my favorite band that (in my little fantasy world) wants to be dirt poor and barely make it, do this cushy cooperate gig, I just cant figure it out..."

My issue is not that Pearl Jam is not entitled to be super rich or make all the money they want. If Ed stops complaining from the stage and writing songs about the rich, corporations, etc. go ahead and play any gig you want. But if you (speaking about Ed, not SolarWorld) are going to continue to do so, you have to expect people to say, "Wait a minute, he's saying this and doing that? Hmmm."

And I'm not one who is offended they are doing this, I just can understand where people are coming from.

JD Sal

SolarWorld wrote:

Just saying what exactly? Larry is rich?

You want PJ to rewrite the tax code?

Obviously I don't expect PJ to rewrite the tax code, but thank you for your simplistic yet condescending response. What I’m saying is what the article said, that Larry made more money last year than his entire corporation paid in taxes, and that his company is the biggest abuser (beneficiary in some people’s minds) of taking advantage of our country’s flawed tax system for executive compensation, which places undue burden on the taxpayers.

Based on what Pearl Jam has rallied against for the last 2 decades, I just don’t understand why they are playing the Oracle conference. I live near Philly and have never missed a local PJ show in my area. But I was on the fence for the Made in America Festival, and this Oracle nonsense has pushed me over the side of not going. Just my opinion, but if PJ does not care about what they have stood for over the years, then their music has lost some authenticity and some fans won’t connect the same. I am one of them.

PJ_Soul

100 Pacer wrote:

:?

I can't believe this is such a hotly-contested issue.

They're entertainers. They're being paid to entertain. End of story.

Clearly, not for some people. Not for me - they're more than just entertainers for me, and for others... and, from what I can tell, for themselves. Some things just matter to some, while they don't to others. I understand why some don't care at all. I'm personally fairly middle of the road about it - disappointed but forgiving. Others care a lot and it's shaking their faith a tiny bit. I think all viewpoints are valid because in this case they reflect our valid perspectives of the band (and the world). I just don't like that tendency some people have to accuse people who don't agree with their opinions of "not getting it". Hey, we totally get it. We just don't agree with you.

High Fidelity 2000

SolarWorld wrote:

PJ_Soul wrote:

Wow, thank you for educating all us stupid fucking idiots oh wise one.... You really have a way of phrasing things!

I never called anyone a stupid fucking idiot, dont put words in my mouth.

But in this thread? There are a ton people that think they know, and they have NO IDEA. Educate yourself people. Learn how the world works. People dont live in the 90s anymore. We are on the edge of a global financial collapse. PJ should be grabbing all the money they can and buying gold with it.

Well, pretty much. You said people's IQ points fell out of their heads, and hopefully their simple trains of thought can follow your big educated sense-making skills. It's about the same thing.

SolarWorld isn't really Kelly Curtis, is it?? You sure seem to know a lot about the band's decision making process and finances. Wait, maybe you're that guy who embezzled all the money! The jig is up!

SolarWorld

ComeToTX wrote:

These guys were rich by 1993. Nobody wants them to be dirt poor. They're already millionaires. They have been for 20 years.

So you would understand the concept of it being "expensive" to be a millionaire?

People have no real concept of what a million dollars is anyways. Think it's a lot? Try buying a house anywhere worth living in in the Bay Area.

People also dont have any idea how much these guys make a gig, its more than most of you but it's not some astronomical amount. There are huge bills that come along with being Pearl Jam, you have no idea. Now others are depending on them for a large portion, if not all, of their families lively hoods.

Cost of doing business these days, you have to do favors for friends so you can keep the wheels moving. Cant understand that simple fact? Good luck to you during the Forth Turning, you are going to need it my friend.

:wave:

Drowned Out

SolarWorld wrote:

Drowned Out wrote:

As for the conference....you talk like the attendees are paying $2500 for this out of pocket, and are there solely to learn....c'mon man. Anyone who pays this out of pocket is a biz owner who is writing it off, or they're so loaded they don't give a shit how much it costs. You KNOW the average attendee was offered a trip to this thing as a perk, not as a way to further their career, or learn about the latest software. Do you work in the IT industry? I don't....but I know how it is in my industry, and every other industry that I know people in. it's a free vacation with a work veil. But keep looking down your nose with your superior worldview, telling everyone else they don't know what they're talking about....since apparently you are (sorry, your wife is) the only person who knows what goes on at biz conferences.

I'm not calling anyone money-grubbing assholes...my issue is that the band doesnt' seem to care about the optics of playing this gig...which sends a message that they don't care about their fans opinions at all. Which is fine, but like I said...the risk is losing long time fans over a one-time payday. Their prerogative.

You dont have the slightest idea what, first, things cost in the Bay Area and two, what IT education costs. People in the Bay have money to pay this all day long. You are kidding yourself if you think its just companies are just writing checks sending people to these things.

And yes I WILL continue to look down my nose at people that continue to be clueless about how things work.

"Jeee wizzz, why did my favorite band that (in my little fantasy world) wants to be dirt poor and barely make it, do this cushy cooperate gig, I just cant figure it out..."

ya, clueless....I got back from SF on Tuesday....but you're right, I have no clue how much things cost there. :roll:
What does IT education costs have to do with this? IT wages, maybe, but education?
And.....did I not also say of some attendees - 'or they're so loaded they don't give a shit how much it costs'.....? Even if that's the case...you know they're writing off the expense.
hey, if that's the audience PJ wants to perform for, power to 'em. I just hope they aren't surprised when their current choices begin to result in declining ticket sales. The '1%' isn't exactly a large, devout, demographic.
You haven't the slightest idea what fantasy world I live in. I'm getting the feeling that yours involves a perch, a lot of chirping, a lot of shitting on people.....and concentrating really hard in seminars.

High Fidelity 2000

ComeToTX wrote:

These guys were rich by 1993. Nobody wants them to be dirt poor. They're already millionaires. They have been for 20 years.

That is my point when you have people saying "they have families now and have to put food on the table."

Pearl Jam could never record another song or play another show in their life and guess what? They will still have food on the table for the rest of their lives, their kids lives, and their grandkids lives.

Cash grab corporate gigs are just weak, weak, weak. At least when you refuse to tour any more and when you do only play the same 10 states. I know, I know... it's a disease and they're all green...

LineOneMightyFine

Actually, I think he's either:

a) one of the road crew
or
b) one of the conference attendees

One thing that is for certain: he's smarter than anyone on this board. Not sure why he'd waste his energy arguing with such simpleminded folk.

100 Pacer

PJ_Soul wrote:

100 Pacer wrote:

:?

I can't believe this is such a hotly-contested issue.

They're entertainers. They're being paid to entertain. End of story.

Clearly, not for some people. Not for me - they're more than just entertainers for me, and for others... and, from what I can tell, for themselves. Some things just matter to some, while they don't to others. I understand why some don't care at all. I'm personally fairly middle of the road about it - disappointed but forgiving. Others care a lot and it's shaking their faith a tiny bit. I think all viewpoints are valid because in this case they reflect our valid perspectives of the band (and the world). I just don't like that tendency some people have to accuse people who don't agree with their opinions of "not getting it". Hey, we totally get it. We just don't agree with you.

To what status have they been elevated to if not entertainers (in this setting)?

Drowned Out

PJ_Soul wrote:

Oh, well with that I'll disagree. Most of the people who attend these conferences are IT professionals who are sent by their employers, and the intent is indeed to learn some shit. That doesn't mean that it isn't basically a free vacation for the employee - that's still true! But it's not meant as a perk at all, and there do actually have to attend some workshops and learn something. Most employers make employees report on what it is they took away from the conference when they get back. And $2500 isn't totally out of line for such a conference. It's a bit pricey, but not way out there. That being said, I don't know a single person who wouldn't rather go and relax at a conference that offers rock concerts and parties at nice hotels after the couple of easy going and perfectly simple workshops than stay home and actually work! Because one thing that these conferences aren't is work!

No, you're right, it's not 100% a vacation. Probably about 90%
How is it not considered a perk if it's a trip to a nice hotel, with PJ playing, it's not work, simple workshops, and a few scratchnotes is all that's required of you? Pretty sure most companies are sending people they want to keep happy - upper management etc; not just some programmer or IT call centre scrub.

PJ_Soul

rrivers wrote:

SolarWorld wrote:

Drowned Out wrote:

As for the conference....you talk like the attendees are paying $2500 for this out of pocket, and are there solely to learn....c'mon man. Anyone who pays this out of pocket is a biz owner who is writing it off, or they're so loaded they don't give a shit how much it costs. You KNOW the average attendee was offered a trip to this thing as a perk, not as a way to further their career, or learn about the latest software. Do you work in the IT industry? I don't....but I know how it is in my industry, and every other industry that I know people in. it's a free vacation with a work veil. But keep looking down your nose with your superior worldview, telling everyone else they don't know what they're talking about....since apparently you are (sorry, your wife is) the only person who knows what goes on at biz conferences.

I'm not calling anyone money-grubbing assholes...my issue is that the band doesnt' seem to care about the optics of playing this gig...which sends a message that they don't care about their fans opinions at all. Which is fine, but like I said...the risk is losing long time fans over a one-time payday. Their prerogative.

You dont have the slightest idea what, first, things cost in the Bay Area and two, what IT education costs. People in the Bay have money to pay this all day long. You are kidding yourself if you think its just companies are just writing checks sending people to these things.

And yes I WILL continue to look down my nose at people that continue to be clueless about how things work.

"Jeee wizzz, why did my favorite band that (in my little fantasy world) wants to be dirt poor and barely make it, do this cushy cooperate gig, I just cant figure it out..."

My issue is not that Pearl Jam is not entitled to be super rich or make all the money they want. If Ed stops complaining from the stage and writing songs about the rich, corporations, etc. go ahead and play any gig you want. But if you (speaking about Ed, not SolarWorld) are going to continue to do so, you have to expect people to say, "Wait a minute, he's saying this and doing that? Hmmm."

And I'm not one who is offended they are doing this, I just can understand where people are coming from.

Right. I've always kind of valued Eddie as someone who basically practices what he preaches (not on a Jesus level, but in a real world kind of way). But this... this isn't practicing what he preaches at all, hence my disappointment. Ed's human... so it's okay. I just hope he doesn't make a habit of it. I hope this is just a temporary detour from his usual path. I wonder if Stone isn't being placated or something too. I think of Stone as the one who wouldn't give a shit about this stuff; I never thought he felt strongly about such things like Ed and Jeff. And I'm not sure Mike cares too much either. This could be Ed and Jeff bending to what Stone thinks is something they should just do for the money, because Stone's feeling like his viewpoints are overshadowed by Ed's more idealistic ones. *shrug* Total conjecture, obviously.

dwhite76

PJ_Soul wrote:

100 Pacer wrote:

:?

I can't believe this is such a hotly-contested issue.

They're entertainers. They're being paid to entertain. End of story.

Clearly, not for some people. Not for me - they're more than just entertainers for me, and for others... and, from what I can tell, for themselves. Some things just matter to some, while they don't to others. I understand why some don't care at all. I'm personally fairly middle of the road about it - disappointed but forgiving. Others care a lot and it's shaking their faith a tiny bit. I think all viewpoints are valid because in this case they reflect our valid perspectives of the band (and the world). I just don't like that tendency some people have to accuse people who don't agree with their opinions of "not getting it". Hey, we totally get it. We just don't agree with you.

Well put PJ_Soul

PJFLA

Technically, I would imagine Pearl Jam is set up as an LLC.[/quote]

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=What+does+LLC+mean%3F[/quote]

Back at ya solarworld... Not my first corp rodeo...

http://www.ehow.com/about_4611982_what- ... -mean.html

Hugh Freaking Dillon

Drowned Out wrote:

PJ_Soul wrote:

Oh, well with that I'll disagree. Most of the people who attend these conferences are IT professionals who are sent by their employers, and the intent is indeed to learn some shit. That doesn't mean that it isn't basically a free vacation for the employee - that's still true! But it's not meant as a perk at all, and there do actually have to attend some workshops and learn something. Most employers make employees report on what it is they took away from the conference when they get back. And $2500 isn't totally out of line for such a conference. It's a bit pricey, but not way out there. That being said, I don't know a single person who wouldn't rather go and relax at a conference that offers rock concerts and parties at nice hotels after the couple of easy going and perfectly simple workshops than stay home and actually work! Because one thing that these conferences aren't is work!

No, you're right, it's not 100% a vacation. Probably about 90%
How is it not considered a perk if it's a trip to a nice hotel, with PJ playing, it's not work, simple workshops, and a few scratchnotes is all that's required of you? Pretty sure most companies are sending people they want to keep happy - upper management etc; not just some programmer or IT call centre scrub.

actually, most people I know who travel for work, at my work and friends and family, do not think of travelling for work as a perk. it's more annoying than anything. especially if you have a family.