Thread wars

Jeanwah

Personally, if you guys want to talk hand outs, why don't you go out and get the facts. The stats on who's receiving what, how many get it and the reason they're getting it. I'm so sick and tired of everyone (not just on here, either) bitching about hand outs when they have really no clue. And then when I tell them that I'm getting assistance because I'm temporarily disabled usually gets them all apologetic because I don't look the part of a typical person receiving a "hand out".

Frankly, people need to get real lives rather than focusing on other people any way. Who the fuck cares about whether someone needs assistance! It's called social services and it's a humanitarian issue, about taking care of each other when they need it. Yes, some take advantage, but the overall issue is not them. It's the service itself. And I'm sick of it getting a bad wrap in this dog-eat-dog capitalist country.

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. - Eleanor Roosevelt

mikepegg44

Prince Of Dorkness wrote:

If you people are all so against "hand outs," why are you seemingly so desperate to reward Meghan McCain and Paris Hilton and Donald Trump's kid for being rich?

who is desperate to reward them?

peacefrompaul

Jeanwah wrote:

Frankly, people need to get real lives rather than focusing on other people any way. Who the fuck cares about whether someone needs assistance!

It's coming out of all of our taxes and I just like to know where it is going. Hopefully to someone that needs it.

josevolution

Yes i would help anyone from here ...

hedonist

Prince Of Dorkness wrote:

hedonist wrote:

People reap their own rewards, or not; and if they do, this doesn't make them bad, bad people.

OK, and what are we "rewarding" those billionaire's kids who've never had to really work for much, exactly?

See, it doesn't matter to me; it's up to the person who earned it and if they choose to pass it on to their children, that's between them. It's not my business - it's theirs.

Jeanwah, I have a problem with the system being fucked with, with the greedy taking what they don't need from those who legitimately do. I have a family member who's the assistant Attorney General in charge of Medicare fraud in N. Carolina. Why should this position even exist? If the funds being misused/stolen were taken back, it could help so many more. That's where part of my issue lies - it's difficult for me to support a ridiculously mis-managed system.

brianlux

josevolution wrote:

Yes i would help anyone from here ...

Thanks, Jose. I hope no one here is in need, but it's good to hear you say that.

Giving is just not that hard. What's difficult is the idea of true giving- giving 'till it hurts. I can give a homeless person on the street a few bucks- BFD. That's easy. I tithe 10 percent of my income which is well below the national average but I still have everything I need and more so 10%... BFD. That's easy. Giving time to spend staying up late with an ailing friend knowing you'll drag through the next day- that's hard. Letting a homeless friend move in knowing she'll be dead from drinking anyway- that's freakin' hard (and yes, she is dead and no I won't do that one again.) And listen, I'm no saint. Doing these things is like pulling my own teeth. I'm not a in a big damn hurry to do them. I'm as selfish as the next guy. But sometimes you suck it up and REALLY give. And if it's just a few bucks or a cup of coffee- that's selfish too because it feels good but selfish is OK too.

Jeanwah

hedonist wrote:

Prince Of Dorkness wrote:

hedonist wrote:

People reap their own rewards, or not; and if they do, this doesn't make them bad, bad people.

OK, and what are we "rewarding" those billionaire's kids who've never had to really work for much, exactly?

See, it doesn't matter to me; it's up to the person who earned it and if they choose to pass it on to their children, that's between them. It's not my business - it's theirs.

Jeanwah, I have a problem with the system being fucked with, with the greedy taking what they don't need from those who legitimately do. I have a family member who's the assistant Attorney General in charge of Medicare fraud in N. Carolina. Why should this position even exist? If the funds being misused/stolen were taken back, it could help so many more. That's where part of my issue lies - it's difficult for me to support a ridiculously mis-managed system.

I know it's a mis-managed system, Hedonist. But to focus on what's wrong with the system, rather than focusing on what's right with what it's doing for those who truly need it... that's what's grossly overlooked.

hedonist

Jeanwah wrote:

I know it's a mis-managed system, Hedonist. But to focus on what's wrong with the system, rather than focusing on what's right with what it's doing for those who truly need it... that's what's grossly overlooked.

But isn't it possible to do both? We're already paying into the system; demanding that it be efficiently-run isn't asking too much.

(and for the record, I'm not painting all who need or receive assistance with one brush; never have, never will. That's as ludicrous as some of the comments on other threads I've seen that brand anyone questioning any kind of assistance or how it's distributed as being evil or hard-hearted or out of touch)

Jeanwah

hedonist wrote:

Jeanwah wrote:

I know it's a mis-managed system, Hedonist. But to focus on what's wrong with the system, rather than focusing on what's right with what it's doing for those who truly need it... that's what's grossly overlooked.

But isn't it possible to do both? We're already paying into the system; demanding that it be efficiently-run isn't asking too much.

(and for the record, I'm not painting all who need or receive assistance with one brush; never have, never will. That's as ludicrous as some of the comments on other threads I've seen that brand anyone questioning any kind of assistance or how it's distributed as being evil or hard-hearted or out of touch)

Sure, it's possible to do both! But everywhere I look the focus is on those what's wrong with it and the broad generalizations against it.

And good to know about your second paragraph! I agree.

Jeanwah

brianlux wrote:

I meant for this thread to be more about us as a kind of community or extended family rather than the world at large. Yes, we're a very peripheral extended family for most of us, but never-the-less we do form a community of sorts. I'm very idealist about taking care of members of community.

You're a good soul, Brian.

I would like to think that if members of the AMT community ever met each other, we'd put aside our differences and focus on what brings us together in the first place....the lounge car!

Who Princess

:wtf:
How in the hell did a thread about finding common ground turn into a thread about handouts? :fp:

Nice try, Brian. You're a good man. :thumbup:

hedonist

Who Princess wrote:

:wtf:
How in the hell did a thread about finding common ground turn into a thread about handouts? :fp:

Nice try, Brian. You're a good man. :thumbup:

haha...agreed on all counts

redrock

Keeping with the intention of the thread, we all belong to 'humanity'. As much as I can, I will try and help anyone that is in deep doo-doo. Whether I like this person or not. Note: Not liking someone has a lot more to do than diverging opinions! I have some friends that have completely opposing views to mine in different areas, but that just makes 'animated' discussions around the dinner table and/or sharing a few bottles of wine!

pandora

I thought the OP was talking about something more personal, like Pearl Jam fans actually sharing a common denominator and being kind.

Cosmo

mydogmookieblaylock wrote:

if you were drowning and had on an Ed Vedder t-shirt i would swim out and try to save you ---
if you had on an Ed Hardy shirt i would swim out and try to drown you.
it is what it is

...
There... fixed it.
You're welcome.

MotoDC

mikepegg44 wrote:

Prince Of Dorkness wrote:

If you people are all so against "hand outs," why are you seemingly so desperate to reward Meghan McCain and Paris Hilton and Donald Trump's kid for being rich?

who is desperate to reward them?

"Death Tax". PoD wants it, you don't.

As for the OP, I agree, most people are probably not as hard as their politics would indicate, particularly one-on-one. The old adage "capitalism among the public, socialism among friends" would certainly apply in a lot of scenarios. Personally, I'm torn. From a purely philosophical or abstract perspective, I'm against the concept. I don't think it's "right" to take the livelihood of one person and give it to someone else based on yet another party's determination of need. That said, in practice, I have a hard time saying that we shouldn't provide some basic safety net for people who are temporarily down on their luck, but I believe there need to be strong controls and restrictions in place to prevent creating a culture of welfare and dependence.

SD48277

While I do have my petty moments, I like to think that I would help someone when they need it. I know I have in the past, and I hope the same will be true in the future.

Prince Of Dorkness

MotoDC wrote:

mikepegg44 wrote:

Prince Of Dorkness wrote:

If you people are all so against "hand outs," why are you seemingly so desperate to reward Meghan McCain and Paris Hilton and Donald Trump's kid for being rich?

who is desperate to reward them?

"Death Tax". PoD wants it, you don't.
-

Please don't speak for me. Ok?

brianlux

MotoDC wrote:

That said, in practice, I have a hard time saying that we shouldn't provide some basic safety net for people who are temporarily down on their luck, but I believe there need to be strong controls and restrictions in place to prevent creating a culture of welfare and dependence.

Let's start with education. Instead of training kids how to grow up to be automatons who punch in and out on time and work mechanically on assembly lines or do service work, we would do well to teach critical thinking, encourage creativity- especially in those who favor an artistic approach to life, teach appropriate skepticism and, for those who really want to how to be good at assembly line and service work. If we taught people how to use their talents and feel good about what they do, we would have more productive people and fewer who are unproductive. But I would also allow for those who find living simply or as aesthetics- I would certainly honor those who follow the "One Straw Revolution" way of life.

But how we got from talking about being kind to one another to a discussion on hand outs and welfare and such beats the hell out of me!

DS1119

Prince Of Dorkness wrote:

If you people are all so against "hand outs," why are you seemingly so desperate to reward Meghan McCain and Paris Hilton and Donald Trump's kid for being rich?

Really? :fp: How is this "handouts"? If they have reality shows/show up in newspapers, etc. we as a free society have the choice to watch them or not. If you're referring to "hand outs" as the money they inherit...I hope you don't/or haven't ever received/or will receive an inheriticance of any amount because you should come under the same scrutiny then I guess.