Romney to pick Paul Ryan for VP

The Fixer

Cliffy6745 wrote:

The Fixer wrote:

If someone is taxed a higher rate for having more money, it's definitely a penalty. I shouldn't have to support those who cant support themselves just because I can. that's ridiculous.

I don't understand why people don't want to help others. You shouldn't have to, you should want to. .

.

Bingo

Cliffy6745

The Fixer wrote:

Cliffy6745 wrote:

The Fixer wrote:

If someone is taxed a higher rate for having more money, it's definitely a penalty. I shouldn't have to support those who cant support themselves just because I can. that's ridiculous.

I don't understand why people don't want to help others. You shouldn't have to, you should want to. .

.

Bingo

You're completely missing the point.

For everything you have stated, you do not want to help others. You would not study the opportunites and give the same percentage of money to charity. It just wouldn't happen.

I'd be perfectly happy if you were able to give your percentage of taxes that would go to social programs to a program like the Khan Academy, but that just wouldn't happen on a scale big enough to make any meaningful change.

pandora

Prince Of Dorkness wrote:

pandora wrote:

Prince Of Dorkness wrote:

And if you're so upset about "hand outs," doesn't it bug you that billionaires are being given big sacks of cash for... Being billionaires?

The five Walton kids (of the Walmart family) have more money combined than the bottom 40% of the country. And yet half of their employees are eligible for food stamps.

So we're going to give them... A tax cut... :fp:

Half the population of our country now receives govt aid of some kind...

good lord

what is wrong with that picture?

And you think the solution is to get rid of government aid and let those people starve or die, give tax breaks to rich people and what, exactly?

Get rid of waste and fraud then those who are truly in need feed them.

Look at the disability fraud in our country... healthy people collecting Social Security
years before they should.

This fraud and feeling of entitlement has grown out of control
this is ruining it for those who honestly need help.

Something has got to give and it should be the scammers and those who feel they are entitled
simply because the rich have more.
Entitled and they don't need to work or help our society at all, just drain it.

Prince Of Dorkness

The way it's always worked is that jobs aren't "created" by just throwing bags of money at people who already have a lot of money.

Rich people are rich for many reasons, one of the bigger ones being that they don't spend money that they don't have to spend. The reason Ann Romney hasn't opened up a toy factory in Des Moines isn't that she can't afford to, it's that she doesn't WANT to and no amount of giving her bundles of cash will change that.

No Billionaire is going to start a business because he's got an extra few million laying about. He's a billionaire. He's ALWAYS had a few million laying about.

Jobs are created by consumer demand. If you tax the middle class out of existence, remove their health care and programs to encourage them to keep the system healthy, they don't buy things.

Why is Best Buy going out of business? Because of crappy customer service or people buying on Amazon? Partially.. but also because Best Buy sells expensive luxury items and the middle class doesn't HAVE disposable income for expensive luxury items.

Encouraging small business and supporting those micro economies is how you're going to get people back to work. but only if the middle class is able to make money to buy things again. And 8 years of the Bush Tax Cuts have shown that doesn't work.

Prince Of Dorkness

pandora wrote:

Look at the disability fraud in our country... healthy people collecting Social Security
years before they should.

This fraud and feeling of entitlement has grown out of control
this is ruining it for those who honestly need help.

Something has got to give and it should be the scammers and those who feel they are entitled
simply because the rich have more.
Entitled and they don't need to work or help our society at all, just drain it.

OK. that's a valid point. (although I wonder if this is another silly Chicken Little story like "voter fraud" where less than one case per election per year per state has ever been found.)

So... how does cutting off the entire program and the vast majority of people who are NOT scamming the system and then giving that money to a billionaire to put in his bank account solve that problem?

pandora

Johnny Abruzzo wrote:

pandora wrote:

Half the population of our country now receives govt aid of some kind...

I'm sure that includes Social Security and Medicare benefits that they paid for with payroll taxes. Just skew those stats however you want.

As I said there in red... It is all kinds of aid yes
not skewing ... stated

Soc Security is going to fail ...
so many claiming benefits through fraud, early benefits, are hurting it for those who really need it.

The Fixer

Cliffy6745 wrote:

The Fixer wrote:

Cliffy6745 wrote:

I don't understand why people don't want to help others. You shouldn't have to, you should want to. .

.

Bingo

You're completely missing the point.

For everything you have stated, you do not want to help others. You would not study the opportunites and give the same percentage of money to charity. It just wouldn't happen.

I'd be perfectly happy if you were able to give your percentage of taxes that would go to social programs to a program like the Khan Academy, but that just wouldn't happen on a scale big enough to make any meaningful change.

I actually get tax breaks for charitable donations. Call that what you will, but I am choosing to help in those instances (helping myself and others)

I'm not hiding behind the fact that I despise the govt telling me where my taxes go. People should have the choice to spend/donate their money as they deem fit. I understand the need for taxes, but I do not agree with where a lot of this money goes.

You can't honestly say that you agree with all social programs can you? Sure some are good, but a lot of that stuff is a waste IMO. I do applaud the states who have implemented drug testing to gain eligibility for stuff like unemp and welfare. that shit should be mandatory

peacefrompaul

pandora wrote:

Soc Security is going to fail ...
so many claiming benefits through fraud, early benefits, are hurting it for those who really need it.

And the government taking money from Social Security

Cliffy6745

The Fixer wrote:

I actually get tax breaks for charitable donations. Call that what you will, but I am choosing to help in those instances (helping myself and others)

I'm not hiding behind the fact that I despise the govt telling me where my taxes go. People should have the choice to spend/donate their money as they deem fit. I understand the need for taxes, but I do not agree with where a lot of this money goes.

You can't honestly say that you agree with all social programs can you? Sure some are good, but a lot of that stuff is a waste IMO. I do applaud the states who have implemented drug testing to gain eligibility for stuff like unemp and welfare. that shit should be mandatory

But again, you are missing the bigger picture. Why should a kid not eat because the mother is an addict? It sure as hell isn't their fault. There needs to be tighter regulations on how money is spent, but how is starving a kid because of a moms drug issues a solution? It's really only making it worse.

I don't agree with all social programs, and I think that while you are on unemployment there need to be stricter guidelines on how you are looking for work and there is obviously a shit load of waste in the programs. I don't disagree with that at all.

Edit: And I have personally been dealing with someone trying to get off drugs for a long time and there is basically no decent treatment available. Why should his kids suffer because we don't give him the opportunity to break his addiction? He has 4 kids who are completely innocent in this situation and need assistance from the government. I buy these kids half of their back to school clothes. Why should they not get help because of their dad?

inlet13

I watched this Sunday morning. It made me laugh out loud. Reminded me of MT:

Maddow vs. Lowry on Meet the Press:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wj6RymfWTTM

Cliffy6745

inlet13 wrote:

Cliffy6745 wrote:

The Fixer wrote:

If someone is taxed a higher rate for having more money, it's definitely a penalty. I shouldn't have to support those who cant support themselves just because I can. that's ridiculous.

This whole line of thinking is just depressing as hell to me. I don't understand why people don't want to help others. You shouldn't have to, you should want to. Your standard of living is not going to change, theirs may.

There are so many issues in our society and in my mind it all comes back to education. Nothing is ever going to improve if we at least don't have decent educational opportunities for everyone. People can't help themselves because they don't know better and have never been educated to know better. That is our failing as a country. That is our fault. People are not born with that knowledge and until we end the cycle, it is never going to change.

The free lunch program is a handout, right? Like I said, do we let those kids starve to death or do we help them because we can?

This country offers so much to so many and so little to others. It is just sad that people want everything but don't want to help people who are not as fortunate.

Tossing money to the government to solve problems rarely solves anything. In fact, many times it creates additional problems.

I have said many times things need to be handled better and I don't disagree. I am more arguing the philosophy as a whole and that we are never going to fix things with these attitudes.

Prince Of Dorkness

pandora wrote:

Soc Security is going to fail ...
so many claiming benefits through fraud, early benefits, are hurting it for those who really need it.

no, it's not. It's totally solvent.

the right keeps repeating that lie over and over again like Chicken Little but social security isn't in danger and there are not "So Many" defrauding it.

Just another panic crisis to make you think we should kill the whole thing and give the money to donald trump.

inlet13

Cliffy6745 wrote:

inlet13 wrote:

Tossing money to the government to solve problems rarely solves anything. In fact, many times it creates additional problems.

I have said many times things need to be handled better and I don't disagree. I am more arguing the philosophy as a whole and that we are never going to fix things with these attitudes.

Fair enough. But, I argue back gov't won't be handled better. Government, at least at it's current size, is always inept. It's just too big. Too much bureaucracy, too much red tape, too broke, too immoral, too unpopular, too power-hungry... etc. Why would I want to hand them money to make any problem better? I wouldn't. They won't make improve the situation. In fact, they'll make matters worse.

The Fixer

Cliffy6745 wrote:

The Fixer wrote:

I actually get tax breaks for charitable donations. Call that what you will, but I am choosing to help in those instances (helping myself and others)

I'm not hiding behind the fact that I despise the govt telling me where my taxes go. People should have the choice to spend/donate their money as they deem fit. I understand the need for taxes, but I do not agree with where a lot of this money goes.

You can't honestly say that you agree with all social programs can you? Sure some are good, but a lot of that stuff is a waste IMO. I do applaud the states who have implemented drug testing to gain eligibility for stuff like unemp and welfare. that shit should be mandatory

But again, you are missing the bigger picture. Why should a kid not eat because the mother is an addict? It sure as hell isn't their fault. There needs to be tighter regulations on how money is spent, but how is starving a kid because of a moms drug issues a solution? It's really only making it worse.

I don't agree with all social programs, and I think that while you are on unemployment there need to be stricter guidelines on how you are looking for work and there is obviously a shit load of waste in the programs. I don't disagree with that at all.

Edit: And I have personally been dealing with someone trying to get off drugs for a long time and there is basically no decent treatment available. Why should his kids suffer because we don't give him the opportunity to break his addiction? He has 4 kids who are completely innocent in this situation and need assistance from the government. I buy these kids half of their back to school clothes. Why should they not get help because of their dad?

I'm not going to pretend to be familiar with the system in place for these types of issues. I am guessing that any funding goes to the parents though, which is a problem. there should be a way for federal money to go directly to the programs in place for these kids.

I don't mean to sound harsh, but these problems are not something I feel like I should be a solution to. Sure it's a shame and if it was one of my friends I would help. But I don't think it's fair that I have to bear the burden of people with addiction or laziness issues (especially those whom I have never met nor never will meet). I have my own issues to care to and I'm not asking anyone for handouts.

at the end of the day I don't think enough people own their situations. sure some have it easier than others, but instead of pointing the finger and making excuses people should do something to better themselves. I geuess that's just the way I was raised. my parents didn't tolerate excuses. I was taught that if I didn't like or agree with somethign then it was on me to do something about it.

peacefrompaul

The Fixer wrote:

Cliffy6745 wrote:

The Fixer wrote:

I actually get tax breaks for charitable donations. Call that what you will, but I am choosing to help in those instances (helping myself and others)

I'm not hiding behind the fact that I despise the govt telling me where my taxes go. People should have the choice to spend/donate their money as they deem fit. I understand the need for taxes, but I do not agree with where a lot of this money goes.

You can't honestly say that you agree with all social programs can you? Sure some are good, but a lot of that stuff is a waste IMO. I do applaud the states who have implemented drug testing to gain eligibility for stuff like unemp and welfare. that shit should be mandatory

But again, you are missing the bigger picture. Why should a kid not eat because the mother is an addict? It sure as hell isn't their fault. There needs to be tighter regulations on how money is spent, but how is starving a kid because of a moms drug issues a solution? It's really only making it worse.

I don't agree with all social programs, and I think that while you are on unemployment there need to be stricter guidelines on how you are looking for work and there is obviously a shit load of waste in the programs. I don't disagree with that at all.

Edit: And I have personally been dealing with someone trying to get off drugs for a long time and there is basically no decent treatment available. Why should his kids suffer because we don't give him the opportunity to break his addiction? He has 4 kids who are completely innocent in this situation and need assistance from the government. I buy these kids half of their back to school clothes. Why should they not get help because of their dad?

I'm not going to pretend to be familiar with the system in place for these types of issues. I am guessing that any funding goes to the parents though, which is a problem. there should be a way for federal money to go directly to the programs in place for these kids.

I don't mean to sound harsh, but these problems are not something I feel like I should be a solution to. Sure it's a shame and if it was one of my friends I would help. But I don't think it's fair that I have to bear the burden of people with addiction or laziness issues (especially those whom I have never met nor never will meet). I have my own issues to care to and I'm not asking anyone for handouts.

at the end of the day I don't think enough people own their situations. sure some have it easier than others, but instead of pointing the finger and making excuses people should do something to better themselves. I geuess that's just the way I was raised. my parents didn't tolerate excuses. I was taught that if I didn't like or agree with somethign then it was on me to do something about it.

The food stamps (if you want to get into that) go to parents. Can't tell you how many times I've seen the mom/dad come in and buy absolute crap with the food stamps card. They grab a bunch of pop, chips, candy and cakes. Hand the kid three bags of skittles and call it good. It's even more depressing when you see the same people do it every time you work.

I hope the kid is getting something nutritious....

Cliffy6745

The Fixer wrote:

Cliffy6745 wrote:

The Fixer wrote:

I actually get tax breaks for charitable donations. Call that what you will, but I am choosing to help in those instances (helping myself and others)

I'm not hiding behind the fact that I despise the govt telling me where my taxes go. People should have the choice to spend/donate their money as they deem fit. I understand the need for taxes, but I do not agree with where a lot of this money goes.

You can't honestly say that you agree with all social programs can you? Sure some are good, but a lot of that stuff is a waste IMO. I do applaud the states who have implemented drug testing to gain eligibility for stuff like unemp and welfare. that shit should be mandatory

But again, you are missing the bigger picture. Why should a kid not eat because the mother is an addict? It sure as hell isn't their fault. There needs to be tighter regulations on how money is spent, but how is starving a kid because of a moms drug issues a solution? It's really only making it worse.

I don't agree with all social programs, and I think that while you are on unemployment there need to be stricter guidelines on how you are looking for work and there is obviously a shit load of waste in the programs. I don't disagree with that at all.

Edit: And I have personally been dealing with someone trying to get off drugs for a long time and there is basically no decent treatment available. Why should his kids suffer because we don't give him the opportunity to break his addiction? He has 4 kids who are completely innocent in this situation and need assistance from the government. I buy these kids half of their back to school clothes. Why should they not get help because of their dad?

I'm not going to pretend to be familiar with the system in place for these types of issues. I am guessing that any funding goes to the parents though, which is a problem. there should be a way for federal money to go directly to the programs in place for these kids.

I don't mean to sound harsh, but these problems are not something I feel like I should be a solution to. Sure it's a shame and if it was one of my friends I would help. But I don't think it's fair that I have to bear the burden of people with addiction or laziness issues (especially those whom I have never met nor never will meet). I have my own issues to care to and I'm not asking anyone for handouts.

at the end of the day I don't think enough people own their situations. sure some have it easier than others, but instead of pointing the finger and making excuses people should do something to better themselves. I geuess that's just the way I was raised. my parents didn't tolerate excuses. I was taught that if I didn't like or agree with somethign then it was on me to do something about it.

This is just incredibly naive and honestly, why I think our country is in the shitter. I don't have to know someone to care about their well being. I don't have to be a part of a community to hope it's successful. The more prosperous and educated our country is, the better we will be. The more educated we are, the less laziness there will be. The more educated we are, the less excuses will be made. The more educated we are, the more innovation there is.

It's just the generic sterotypes, poor people are lazy addicts who have no interest in working and just make excuses for themselves. Like they want to be poor and be on drugs and have their kids turn to the streets and die as a teenager. It's a complete embarassment and is why I despise much of the republican party.

And might I ask, just what exactly is the burden you are bearing? One less beer at a Phillies game maybe? Perhaps a new york strip instead of a filet? Hell of a burden for the well being of our country. I mean, afterall, that is a lot to give up.

Edit: And I am not trying to be a dick. You're a good dude but I think this is completely off base. The every man for themself mentality in a country with some much inequality is just sad.

Why do I deserve the life I have more than a kid that is born into poverty? I don't and there is no answer to that question. Because I worked hard? Please. Those kids would gladly work hard given the opportunity, probably harder.

pandora

Prince Of Dorkness wrote:

pandora wrote:

Look at the disability fraud in our country... healthy people collecting Social Security
years before they should.

This fraud and feeling of entitlement has grown out of control
this is ruining it for those who honestly need help.

Something has got to give and it should be the scammers and those who feel they are entitled
simply because the rich have more.
Entitled and they don't need to work or help our society at all, just drain it.

OK. that's a valid point. (although I wonder if this is another silly Chicken Little story like "voter fraud" where less than one case per election per year per state has ever been found.)

So... how does cutting off the entire program and the vast majority of people who are NOT scamming the system and then giving that money to a billionaire to put in his bank account solve that problem?

Who is cutting off the entire program? can you explain please?

It didn't look like that was apart of the Budget plan I read....
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Path_t ... l_Security

also looks like Medicaid is going to be block grants given to the states

Cliffy6745

peacefrompaul wrote:

The food stamps (if you want to get into that) go to parents. Can't tell you how many times I've seen the mom/dad come in and buy absolute crap with the food stamps card. They grab a bunch of pop, chips, candy and cakes. Hand the kid three bags of skittles and call it good. It's even more depressing when you see the same people do it every time you work.

I hope the kid is getting something nutritious....

But again, it all comes back to education. Parents don't know better and that shit food is cheap.

But you know what. FUCK THAT MICHELLE OBAMA TELLING ME WHAT TO EAT

peacefrompaul

Cliffy6745 wrote:

peacefrompaul wrote:

The food stamps (if you want to get into that) go to parents. Can't tell you how many times I've seen the mom/dad come in and buy absolute crap with the food stamps card. They grab a bunch of pop, chips, candy and cakes. Hand the kid three bags of skittles and call it good. It's even more depressing when you see the same people do it every time you work.

I hope the kid is getting something nutritious....

But again, it all comes back to education. Parents don't know better and that shit food is cheap.

But you know what. FUCK THAT MICHELLE OBAMA TELLING ME WHAT TO EAT

Yup. Exactly.

pandora

Prince Of Dorkness wrote:

pandora wrote:

Soc Security is going to fail ...
so many claiming benefits through fraud, early benefits, are hurting it for those who really need it.

no, it's not. It's totally solvent.

the right keeps repeating that lie over and over again like Chicken Little but social security isn't in danger and there are not "So Many" defrauding it.

Just another panic crisis to make you think we should kill the whole thing and give the money to donald trump.

I beg to differ but I guess we can just keep raising taxes on the working class to cover
it anyways right?

http://www.dailyfinance.com/2012/02/14/ ... e-thought/