ted nugent politics

pjhawks

polaris_x wrote:

jimc3 wrote:

so the list, in 10 and a half years, is one guy who was voluntarily living in a country under the control of an Islamist fundamentalist militia http://blog.heritage.org/2011/09/07/cas ... of-action/

if the "cost of freedom" in today's world is that I shouldn't move to Somalia (!) under Islamist fundamentalist militia control...yeah, I think I can live with that

i haven't made a list ... the invasion into civil liberties goes beyond rendition and such ...

if you are ok with it ... that's fine cuz really based on this logic - you can have 100 people and it really is a drop in the bucket ... as long as it isn't you ...

i wouldn't actually call the guy in that article the 'average american' - again show me where the average working american's 'freedoms' have been taken away. show me where mr. and mrs. joe smith can't do something today that they could legally do 10-20 years ago.

surely we are being monitored more, but that is not taking away our freedoms. the average american is still free to do legally what we could legally do before.

and not arguing that some of the rights our government now has aren't out of line. just stating that i think those gov't rights don't affect 99.9% of americans so using the term taking our freedoms away is a bit of a stretch.

Jason P

For the last decade I've heard how evil the Patriot act is and how it takes away our rights. And for the last decade no terror cells have been able to operate and conduct attacks.

josevolution

Jason P wrote:

For the last decade I've heard how evil the Patriot act is and how it takes away our rights. And for the last decade no terror cells have been able to operate and conduct attacks.

Exactly i live here in NY and not one ...Something must be getting done correctly no ..

jimc3

polaris_x wrote:

jimc3 wrote:

so the list, in 10 and a half years, is one guy who was voluntarily living in a country under the control of an Islamist fundamentalist militia http://blog.heritage.org/2011/09/07/cas ... of-action/

if the "cost of freedom" in today's world is that I shouldn't move to Somalia (!) under Islamist fundamentalist militia control...yeah, I think I can live with that

i haven't made a list ... the invasion into civil liberties goes beyond rendition and such ...

if you are ok with it ... that's fine cuz really based on this logic - you can have 100 people and it really is a drop in the bucket ... as long as it isn't you ...

no way dude. one person (One!) in 10+ years is obviously an accident.
it's obvious a US citizen is ten thousand times more likely to be abducted by a Mexican drug cartel then they are of being wrongly whisked away to a secret Turkish prison and tortured for months with no access to council.

there's zero evidence that over a decade, the government is even remotely engaged in the practice of capturing US citizens and having them "renditioned to another country for torture without consequence".

pandora

chadwick wrote:

pandora,
http://youtu.be/oKTdgjZwRO8
ted on hendrix and other musicians and their drug use

hendrix offered ted his pills and whatnot. ted turned him down.

oh that Ted ... he can be a little hypocritical from what I've heard.
Is that his boy with him?

I have read a couple opinion articles that say ...
watching what drugs did to other rockers helped straighten him up,
as least this has been rumored,
as was the case for others and he is a national spokesman for DARE
for 15- 20 years I believe.

He's got it right though clean nature's living is the right kind of high ...
that and no fast food unless you shoot it yourself.

peacefrompaul

josevolution wrote:

Jason P wrote:

For the last decade I've heard how evil the Patriot act is and how it takes away our rights. And for the last decade no terror cells have been able to operate and conduct attacks.

Exactly i live here in NY and not one ...Something must be getting done correctly no ..

Sure, I personally enjoy my privacy.

That freedom can have its consequences.

peacefrompaul

jimc3 wrote:

polaris_x wrote:

jimc3 wrote:

maher arar was not a US citizen, nor were "most people that were held in guantanamo"

ya ... but the rendition laws allow for the same to happen to us citizens whether captured in the US or abroad ...

whether the laws "allow" for it or not (I'm still not sure how the Patriot act would trump the fifth amendment), I tried to find a list of US citizens since 2001 who have been "renditioned to another country for torture without consequence" and I couldn't find one...

It's more of a violation of the Fourth in my opinion

jimc3

peacefrompaul wrote:

jimc3 wrote:

whether the laws "allow" for it or not (I'm still not sure how the Patriot act would trump the fifth amendment), I tried to find a list of US citizens since 2001 who have been "renditioned to another country for torture without consequence" and I couldn't find one...

It's more of a violation of the Fourth in my opinion

I was particularly thinking about due process which is the fifth. my point was, I don't see how if the government detained a US citizen could use the Patriot act as justification, because it would deprive you of due process. Has a federal court ruled on the law's constitutionality in that respect?

peacefrompaul

jimc3 wrote:

peacefrompaul wrote:

jimc3 wrote:

whether the laws "allow" for it or not (I'm still not sure how the Patriot act would trump the fifth amendment), I tried to find a list of US citizens since 2001 who have been "renditioned to another country for torture without consequence" and I couldn't find one...

It's more of a violation of the Fourth in my opinion

I was particularly thinking about due process which is the fifth. my point was, I don't see how if the government detained a US citizen could use the Patriot act as justification, because it would deprive you of due process. Has a federal court ruled on the law's constitutionality in that respect?

And I was thinking of the wire-tapping and such... Yeah I see your Fifth and call you a Fourth.

They've taken up parts of it I believe. If it's not struck down or brought to court then I don't see why they couldn't use it as justification. I could be wrong.

Edit: Wow... That attempt at humour was pretty terrible. My apologies

Byrnzie

6 pages dedicated to discussing Ted Nugent, on a Pearl Jam message board.


I seriously wonder if any of the band ever read any of this shit?


If I was in a band and noticed that some/any of my fans were pro-death penalty, Pro-Republican, Pro-guns, and/or pro-Ted Nugent, I'd have to stop and ask myself some serious questions.

brianlux

Byrnzie wrote:

6 pages dedicated to discussing Ted Nugent, on a Pearl Jam message board.


I seriously wonder if any of the band ever read any of this shit?


If I was in a band and noticed that some/any of my fans were pro-death penalty, Pro-Republican, Pro-guns, and/or pro-Ted Nugent, I'd have to stop and ask myself some serious questions.

I've had that exact same thought, Byrnzie, here and elsewhere. I hope the guys in PJ don't bother to read AMT. It might lead one or two of them to give up music for plumbing or archery. PJ fan who are pro-death penalty, Pro-Republican, Pro-guns, and/or pro-Ted Nugent? Baffling... to say the least.
Each to his/her own I guess. What a weird world. :fp:

pandora

What's not so baffling is the judgmental attitudes of a few here, that gets old :nono:

Pearl Jam is about the music and love guys! When will the few learn :fp:
We all got it for them! That should be a bond.

And if someone loves Ted or his music or his views I'm sure our wonderful
band members would be open minded enough to appreciate that for what it is
their choice, their right, their opinion.

Spread the PJ love and encourage the bond!

riotgrl

jimc3 wrote:

peacefrompaul wrote:

jimc3 wrote:

whether the laws "allow" for it or not (I'm still not sure how the Patriot act would trump the fifth amendment), I tried to find a list of US citizens since 2001 who have been "renditioned to another country for torture without consequence" and I couldn't find one...

It's more of a violation of the Fourth in my opinion

I was particularly thinking about due process which is the fifth. my point was, I don't see how if the government detained a US citizen could use the Patriot act as justification, because it would deprive you of due process. Has a federal court ruled on the law's constitutionality in that respect?

While I'm not citing the Patriot Act, I think if we look at Japanese internment during WWII the constitutionality of "protecting" us from the threat posed by the Japanese was questioned by the case of Korematsu v. US. The Supreme Court upheld the actions of the US govt. to restrict the civil liberties of ANYone of Japanese ancestry. Check it out here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Korematsu_v._United_States

I bring up this case to highlight the fact that we citizens are often willing to give up some rights if the govt. convinces us its ok in order to protect us. First from the likes of the Japanese then Soviet communism and now terrorism. If we are willing to give up small liberties where does it end? For example, I worked for a brokerage firm for 5 years. I worked in an office with ONE other person for 5 years. I held all my accounts there as did my husband, my parents, my children and my in-laws. After passage of the Patriot Act, I had to show this same guy my state issued ID to PROVE I was indeed myself. A small thing? Perhaps, but if we give in on the small things so the govt. can "protect" us how long before we are asked to give up things we don't want to?

Godfather.

Byrnzie wrote:

6 pages dedicated to discussing Ted Nugent, on a Pearl Jam message board.


I seriously wonder if any of the band ever read any of this shit?


If I was in a band and noticed that some/any of my fans were pro-death penalty, Pro-Republican, Pro-guns, and/or pro-Ted Nugent, I'd have to stop and ask myself some serious questions.

maybe they like fans that think for them selfs and have an opinion of the world around them that is not a mechinical response from a brain washed groupie. ohhhh that one went over the green monster ladies and gentlmen.

Godfather.

mikepegg44

Byrnzie wrote:

6 pages dedicated to discussing Ted Nugent, on a Pearl Jam message board.


I seriously wonder if any of the band ever read any of this shit?


If I was in a band and noticed that some/any of my fans were pro-death penalty, Pro-Republican, Pro-guns, and/or pro-Ted Nugent, I'd have to stop and ask myself some serious questions.

I would be amazed at the amount of social barriers my music crosses in different and meaningful ways.

I would probably be more turned off by intolerance of others...

DriftingByTheStorm

pandora wrote:

Journey to the center of the mind... one of the finer songs
I never knew he did that song till the last thread on him a few months back,
kind of backs up what I had heard.

Its a favorite of mine as a kid a nice trippy song.

If he never did drugs in the late 60's/ 70's well he must have been an outcast!

Amboy Dukes, baby.


He def. was somewhat "outcast" in his sobriety.
But then again those that say he was "loopy" in any event ... I think Ted cops to that himself.
I've heard him say he is "high on life" or "high on the mojo of being Ted Nugent" ... something to that effect. Lol.

I can't speak to him asking fans to rape other fans (???) but "Stranglehold" is CLEARLY a satirical song ...

the lines before "got you in a stranglehold now, baby - you best get out of my way" are "you ran that night that you left me - you put me in my place" ... i think it's just a song about a girl that loved him, then dumped him ... then now she wants him back (or something) but "tough shit", essentially.

I dunno.

chadwick

we can own guns, we can like or dislike ted nugent and love pearl jam and support death penalty all at the same time

question or statement?

lukin2006

I imagine their are plenty of PJ fans who have no interest in the politics of the band...who just happen to like the band for the music. Why should the band care about the politics of their fan base? It would also be extremely naive of the band to think that their entire fan base supports the same view of as them.

gimmesometruth27

nugent is the kind of person who the republicans pander to and try to court. i hope ted keeps talking because it will expose him to potential voters for who he is. romney needs to distance himself from this lunatic, which he has yet to do several days after the fact. i say mitt will let this guy carry the water for him... he needs someone to help recruit the crazies.

i love how in his rants he rattled off that we are losing our freedom and obama is wiping his ass with the constitution, etc...my question to ted is to please provide specific examples to back up your positions.

it is very easy and convenient to make the accusations...it is exponentionally more difficult to actually provide examples and facts to back your positions. and nugent is not capable of the latter.

brianlux

gimmesometruth27 wrote:

nugent is the kind of person who the republicans pander to and try to court. i hope ted keeps talking because it will expose him to potential voters for who he is. romney needs to distance himself from this lunatic, which he has yet to do several days after the fact. i say mitt will let this guy carry the water for him... he needs someone to help recruit the crazies.

i love how in his rants he rattled off that we are losing our freedom and obama is wiping his ass with the constitution, etc...my question to ted is to please provide specific examples to back up your positions.

it is very easy and convenient to make the accusations...it is exponentionally more difficult to actually provide examples and facts to back your positions. and nugent is not capable of the latter.

So true! What he is good at is getting attention, negative or otherwise.

Not saying you can't love his music (I don't) but is their any love in his music or in his mind other than love of guns?