I really don't see how that matters. People are are totally irresponsible deadbeats (for whatever reason) have a right to vote too.
So even if you forget to register, like the Trumps did? Go ahead and show up and vote? I don't see the big deal in asking to do something that takes less time to register. And it proves you are who you say you are
Sure deadbeats have the right - but most have ID too, no? Hell, with the fires here recently, people had to provide it to be let back in to their neighborhood.
Just doesn't strike me as something so difficult to obtain, and then use it as needed/warranted. The process, usually, isn't complicated shit.
I really don't see how that matters. People are are totally irresponsible deadbeats (for whatever reason) have a right to vote too.
So even if you forget to register, like the Trumps did? Go ahead and show up and vote? I don't see the big deal in asking to do something that takes less time to register. And it proves you are who you say you are
You clearly don't understand how difficult it can actually be to get an ID when you don't have luxuries like a car, the internet, and a 40 hr work week. People have shitbag parents that don't bother keeping birth certificates, then you are looking at weeks and months of clerical work to get the documentation you need to vote. It would be one thing to require this if there was any evidence of voting fraud, but there is practically ZERO evidence. So why, from a position of privilege, would you make a requirement that you know some less fortunate will fail to meet when there is no evidence of necessity for said requirement?
*edit
And how fucking insulting is it that these laws invariably come from the party of less government? What is their goal? It has been amply demonstrated that there is no legitimate need for voter id laws, and also that they disproportionally effect minority voters...but, no, that surely doesn't have anything to do with it.
Post edited by rgambs on
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Sure deadbeats have the right - but most have ID too, no? Hell, with the fires here recently, people had to provide it to be let back in to their neighborhood.
Just doesn't strike me as something so difficult to obtain, and then use it as needed/warranted. The process, usually, isn't complicated shit.
How is that relevant?
I was pointing out how there are various scenarios where providing identification is required or useful.
You clearly don't understand how difficult it can actually be to get an ID when you don't have luxuries like a car, the internet, and a 40 hr work week. People have shitbag parents that don't bother keeping birth certificates, then you are looking at weeks and months of clerical work to get the documentation you need to vote. It would be one thing to require this if there was any evidence of voting fraud, but there is practically ZERO evidence. So why, from a position of privilege, would you make a requirement that you know some less fortunate will fail to meet when there is no evidence of necessity for said requirement?
*edit
And how fucking insulting is it that these laws invariably come from the party of less government? What is their goal? It has been amply demonstrated that there is no legitimate need for voter id laws, and also that they disproportionally effect minority voters...but, no, that surely doesn't have anything to do with it.
Of course without requiring ID it is nearly impossible to detect fraud.
As far as some of the other points. States will give you a free ID, if you don't have the money, some will even pick you up and take you there to get it for free.
If you have shitbag parents that lost or din't keep your birth certificate, it doesn't take months to get a copy. My friend lost his, and got a copy of it from the hospital within a week in the mail. He needed his birth certificate, because of the new Real ID Act.
It's 2016, you need an ID to do about anything anymore.
Let's just keep the numbers in mind. 25,000,000 (otherwise) eligible voters don't have the required ID, while these ID requirements would only make a negligible difference since voter fraud is so low to begin with. This is really a matter of weighing the issues. I think 25,000,000 people who should be able to vote but who some are trying to keep from voting outweigh any other argument.
Post edited by PJ_Soul on
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
I really don't see how that matters. People are are totally irresponsible deadbeats (for whatever reason) have a right to vote too.
So even if you forget to register, like the Trumps did? Go ahead and show up and vote? I don't see the big deal in asking to do something that takes less time to register. And it proves you are who you say you are
You clearly don't understand how difficult it can actually be to get an ID when you don't have luxuries like a car, the internet, and a 40 hr work week. People have shitbag parents that don't bother keeping birth certificates, then you are looking at weeks and months of clerical work to get the documentation you need to vote. It would be one thing to require this if there was any evidence of voting fraud, but there is practically ZERO evidence. So why, from a position of privilege, would you make a requirement that you know some less fortunate will fail to meet when there is no evidence of necessity for said requirement?
*edit
And how fucking insulting is it that these laws invariably come from the party of less government? What is their goal? It has been amply demonstrated that there is no legitimate need for voter id laws, and also that they disproportionally effect minority voters...but, no, that surely doesn't have anything to do with it.
Without the means to go to the post office, DMV or several other places that offer ID, how are they getting the the polls to vote? If they want to do it, they will. It isn't difficult. I had to request a birth certificate the first time I got a passport-not that tough. If the only thing in life you needed an official IF for was to vote that would be one that, but you need it for every adult responsibility. It's part of being an adult and living life. And I don't know why you make it seem so very difficult to obtain one, it isn't. Not if you're here legally anyway, and even then you can still get a driver's license in most cases. If obtaining an ID is too big of an obstacle in life for someone, then I'm sorry to say they will have a rough road ahead.
I really don't see how that matters. People who are totally irresponsible deadbeats (for whatever reason) have a right to vote too.
And I think we should be able to identify the irresponsible deadbeats that they claim to be for accuracy.
When Miami-Dade county (AKA "Patient X" of the bizarreness of Florida) is deciding elections, I want to know that the person toting the 64 ounce jug of Mt. Dew Code Red can prove who they claim they are.
Let's just keep the numbers in mind. 25,000,000 (otherwise) eligible voters don't have the required ID, while these ID requirements would only make a negligible difference since voter fraud is so low to begin with. This is really a matter of weighing the issues. I think 25,000,000 people who should be able to vote but who some are trying to keep from voting outweigh any other argument.
let's just micro chip everyone and save people from having to obtain ID. or even better, fingerprint everyone at birth and just scan them at the polling stations.
hear my name
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
I really don't see how that matters. People are are totally irresponsible deadbeats (for whatever reason) have a right to vote too.
So even if you forget to register, like the Trumps did? Go ahead and show up and vote? I don't see the big deal in asking to do something that takes less time to register. And it proves you are who you say you are
You clearly don't understand how difficult it can actually be to get an ID when you don't have luxuries like a car, the internet, and a 40 hr work week. People have shitbag parents that don't bother keeping birth certificates, then you are looking at weeks and months of clerical work to get the documentation you need to vote. It would be one thing to require this if there was any evidence of voting fraud, but there is practically ZERO evidence. So why, from a position of privilege, would you make a requirement that you know some less fortunate will fail to meet when there is no evidence of necessity for said requirement?
*edit
And how fucking insulting is it that these laws invariably come from the party of less government? What is their goal? It has been amply demonstrated that there is no legitimate need for voter id laws, and also that they disproportionally effect minority voters...but, no, that surely doesn't have anything to do with it.
Without the means to go to the post office, DMV or several other places that offer ID, how are they getting the the polls to vote? If they want to do it, they will. It isn't difficult. I had to request a birth certificate the first time I got a passport-not that tough. If the only thing in life you needed an official IF for was to vote that would be one that, but you need it for every adult responsibility. It's part of being an adult and living life. And I don't know why you make it seem so very difficult to obtain one, it isn't. Not if you're here legally anyway, and even then you can still get a driver's license in most cases. If obtaining an ID is too big of an obstacle in life for someone, then I'm sorry to say they will have a rough road ahead.
Again, it's easy for you because you can't imagine and empathize with a lower socioeconomic lifestyle.
If there was evidence of voting abuse, the issue would be conpletely different, but there isn't. That begs the question of why you want to impose restrictions on others???
It's don't know how it works everywhere, but I have to register to vote once (for free), and if I vote regularly I don't have to register again. When I vote, they check my name off the list. If someone else voted using my name, they would know it and have evidence to show it. No ID required. No ID needed.
It's don't know how it works everywhere, but I have to register to vote once (for free), and if I vote regularly I don't have to register again. When I vote, they check my name off the list. If someone else voted using my name, they would know it and have evidence to show it. No ID required. No ID needed.
Exactly. Voter fraud is NOT a real issue, yet they want to keep 25,000,000 eligible voters from voting, the majority of whom are minorities. There is no real reason for them to do this. In an ideal world yes, everyone should show their ID. But God knows this isn't an ideal world, and trying to solve a problem that doesn't even really exist by keeping millions of people from voting is clearly an initiative of some motive besides preventing voter fraud.
Let us not forget that the people pushing for this also do THIS:
Voting integrity clearly has absolutely nothing to do with ID reform. It is all about suppressing votes. I really can't beleive that anyone thinks otherwise.
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
Although I know this isn't an American example, I can say confidently that many of the homeless people I work with daily don't have ID and it isn't easy to get. There is a cost involved, and even if it seems small to you or me it's large to someone living in poverty. And trying to get ID when you don't have an address, a phone number or access to a computer isn't easy. And yes, it does take months to get the necessary IDs, starting with birth certificate and working up to photo ID.
my small self... like a book amongst the many on a shelf
I really don't see how that matters. People are are totally irresponsible deadbeats (for whatever reason) have a right to vote too.
So even if you forget to register, like the Trumps did? Go ahead and show up and vote? I don't see the big deal in asking to do something that takes less time to register. And it proves you are who you say you are
You clearly don't understand how difficult it can actually be to get an ID when you don't have luxuries like a car, the internet, and a 40 hr work week. People have shitbag parents that don't bother keeping birth certificates, then you are looking at weeks and months of clerical work to get the documentation you need to vote. It would be one thing to require this if there was any evidence of voting fraud, but there is practically ZERO evidence. So why, from a position of privilege, would you make a requirement that you know some less fortunate will fail to meet when there is no evidence of necessity for said requirement?
*edit
And how fucking insulting is it that these laws invariably come from the party of less government? What is their goal? It has been amply demonstrated that there is no legitimate need for voter id laws, and also that they disproportionally effect minority voters...but, no, that surely doesn't have anything to do with it.
Without the means to go to the post office, DMV or several other places that offer ID, how are they getting the the polls to vote? If they want to do it, they will. It isn't difficult. I had to request a birth certificate the first time I got a passport-not that tough. If the only thing in life you needed an official IF for was to vote that would be one that, but you need it for every adult responsibility. It's part of being an adult and living life. And I don't know why you make it seem so very difficult to obtain one, it isn't. Not if you're here legally anyway, and even then you can still get a driver's license in most cases. If obtaining an ID is too big of an obstacle in life for someone, then I'm sorry to say they will have a rough road ahead.
Again, it's easy for you because you can't imagine and empathize with a lower socioeconomic lifestyle.
If there was evidence of voting abuse, the issue would be conpletely different, but there isn't. That begs the question of why you want to impose restrictions on others???
I agree that voter fraud is exaggerated. Just as much as I believe voter repression argument is exaggerated as well. Both sides could have something to gain. I read several articles on the voter ID issue, and for every article stating 10% don't have IDs, I found one that argued it was much closer to 1%. Here are some of the reasons. Some studies that quote the 10% were only asking for a valid in-state driver's license. College students were at the top of this list because they had an out of state license from their home town. Elderly people were also near the top because many don't drive. However, most elderly do have other forms of ID, and college students do have a driver's license (just out of state). Others without a valid ID were because they had a revoked or suspended driver's license, so when asked if they had a valid driver's license in the survey, they said "no." So for every article I saw that quoted 10%, I could easily find one that stated the number of registered voters without a valid ID was close to 1%. A fairly large difference. And again, a large portion of that 1% were new college students who never needed an ID before (but would have little difficulty obtaining one, just never needed to). I do have empathy for the lower socioeconomic lifestyle. Just not necessarily in this circumstance because I still believe in the vast majority of cases it is not beyond a reasonable difficulty level. Its part of being an adult, we have to face hassles. Jury duty for one. I recently had to take 2 days off of work to fight a traffic ticket (and won) and another half day at the DMV to obtain the paperwork so my insurance wouldn't go up. Huge hassle-deal with it. You need an ID to cash a check, have a bank account, credit card, have a lease. You even need an ID card to use health insurance, which is required by law to have. Without an ID you cant even use the health insurance that you are required to have. So I just don't get why requiring someone once every 10 years to get an ID card that will last another 10 years, for which they need anyway, is beyond reasonable.
Oh my god. If you don't have ID you are shady. Done and done.
Agree. The few I know without an ID are all trying to avoid taxes, child support, state fees or something else. Yes, it may take weeks or months to get the documentation if you don't have it, but it's not difficult. And how much more notice do you need for an election, it's pretty predictable when it's going to happen....not like they just decide to have it one morning.
Oh my god. If you don't have ID you are shady. Done and done.
Agree. The few I know without an ID are all trying to avoid taxes, child support, state fees or something else. Yes, it may take weeks or months to get the documentation if you don't have it, but it's not difficult. And how much more notice do you need for an election, it's pretty predictable when it's going to happen....not like they just decide to have it one morning.
Why is it so important to you that these ID laws be enacted in the face of a lack of evidence that they are needed? The only reason you have provided is a childish, petty argument that boils down to "I have to have an ID so they should too".
I never said "I have an ID so they should too." I did say you need an ID for EVERYTHING else, so why should voting be the exception where you don't have to prove who you are? And there's no valid reason not to have one. I don't buy into the it's too difficult for some. It's not, inconvenient maybe, but not difficult. And if you're poor, a $10 ID will last you 10 years. There is little data on voter fraud because it is so incredibly easy to do it. All you need to register is a name and birthday (and I'm not even sure if those are cross referenced to make sure that person even exists-given the fact dead people are registered I doubt it is). No SSN, address, or anything else is needed. In a study DOI agents were able to register and vote 97% of the time using a deceased name or name of a felon in prison. You can literally go to a cemetery and write down 100 names and birthdays and expect nearly all of them to work. But aside from potential fraud, I just don't get why it's an unreasonable request. heck, just bring in a copy of last year's tax return would be good enough-I mean since in a previous argument someone said if they pay taxes they should vote, ID or not.
It's don't know how it works everywhere, but I have to register to vote once (for free), and if I vote regularly I don't have to register again. When I vote, they check my name off the list. If someone else voted using my name, they would know it and have evidence to show it. No ID required. No ID needed.
Same here. I have never been asked to provide an ID to vote. They ask for my name and they flip to a page in a book which has a photocopy of my signature on it, and I have to sign my name under the photocopy of the signature. No ID required to prove that I am who I claim to be.
It's don't know how it works everywhere, but I have to register to vote once (for free), and if I vote regularly I don't have to register again. When I vote, they check my name off the list. If someone else voted using my name, they would know it and have evidence to show it. No ID required. No ID needed.
Same here. I have never been asked to provide an ID to vote. They ask for my name and they flip to a page in a book which has a photocopy of my signature on it, and I have to sign my name under the photocopy of the signature. No ID required to prove that I am who I claim to be.
Where did they get the photocopy of your signature?
"I'll use the magic word - let's just shut the fuck up, please." EV, 04/13/08
It's don't know how it works everywhere, but I have to register to vote once (for free), and if I vote regularly I don't have to register again. When I vote, they check my name off the list. If someone else voted using my name, they would know it and have evidence to show it. No ID required. No ID needed.
Same here. I have never been asked to provide an ID to vote. They ask for my name and they flip to a page in a book which has a photocopy of my signature on it, and I have to sign my name under the photocopy of the signature. No ID required to prove that I am who I claim to be.
Where did they get the photocopy of your signature?
Good question, I don't know. From the first time I voted perhaps and there was no photocopy then? Or maybe I had to sign something when I registered to vote? All that was about 20 years ago, so my memory is a little foggy.
Comments
$29.50
Good for 5 years
Did it online in less than 5 minutes
Hell, with the fires here recently, people had to provide it to be let back in to their neighborhood.
Just doesn't strike me as something so difficult to obtain, and then use it as needed/warranted. The process, usually, isn't complicated shit.
http://www.elections.ca/content.aspx?section=vot&dir=ids&document=index&lang=e
I don't see the big deal in asking to do something that takes less time to register. And it proves you are who you say you are
It would be one thing to require this if there was any evidence of voting fraud, but there is practically ZERO evidence.
So why, from a position of privilege, would you make a requirement that you know some less fortunate will fail to meet when there is no evidence of necessity for said requirement?
*edit
And how fucking insulting is it that these laws invariably come from the party of less government? What is their goal?
It has been amply demonstrated that there is no legitimate need for voter id laws, and also that they disproportionally effect minority voters...but, no, that surely doesn't have anything to do with it.
Voting is a part of those premises.
As far as some of the other points. States will give you a free ID, if you don't have the money, some will even pick you up and take you there to get it for free.
If you have shitbag parents that lost or din't keep your birth certificate, it doesn't take months to get a copy. My friend lost his, and got a copy of it from the hospital within a week in the mail. He needed his birth certificate, because of the new Real ID Act.
It's 2016, you need an ID to do about anything anymore.
If the only thing in life you needed an official IF for was to vote that would be one that, but you need it for every adult responsibility. It's part of being an adult and living life. And I don't know why you make it seem so very difficult to obtain one, it isn't. Not if you're here legally anyway, and even then you can still get a driver's license in most cases. If obtaining an ID is too big of an obstacle in life for someone, then I'm sorry to say they will have a rough road ahead.
When Miami-Dade county (AKA "Patient X" of the bizarreness of Florida) is deciding elections, I want to know that the person toting the 64 ounce jug of Mt. Dew Code Red can prove who they claim they are.
Imagine the gall of wanting to verify people.
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
If there was evidence of voting abuse, the issue would be conpletely different, but there isn't. That begs the question of why you want to impose restrictions on others???
No ID needed.
Let us not forget that the people pushing for this also do THIS:
Voting integrity clearly has absolutely nothing to do with ID reform. It is all about suppressing votes. I really can't beleive that anyone thinks otherwise.
I read several articles on the voter ID issue, and for every article stating 10% don't have IDs, I found one that argued it was much closer to 1%. Here are some of the reasons.
Some studies that quote the 10% were only asking for a valid in-state driver's license. College students were at the top of this list because they had an out of state license from their home town. Elderly people were also near the top because many don't drive. However, most elderly do have other forms of ID, and college students do have a driver's license (just out of state). Others without a valid ID were because they had a revoked or suspended driver's license, so when asked if they had a valid driver's license in the survey, they said "no."
So for every article I saw that quoted 10%, I could easily find one that stated the number of registered voters without a valid ID was close to 1%. A fairly large difference. And again, a large portion of that 1% were new college students who never needed an ID before (but would have little difficulty obtaining one, just never needed to).
I do have empathy for the lower socioeconomic lifestyle. Just not necessarily in this circumstance because I still believe in the vast majority of cases it is not beyond a reasonable difficulty level. Its part of being an adult, we have to face hassles. Jury duty for one. I recently had to take 2 days off of work to fight a traffic ticket (and won) and another half day at the DMV to obtain the paperwork so my insurance wouldn't go up. Huge hassle-deal with it.
You need an ID to cash a check, have a bank account, credit card, have a lease. You even need an ID card to use health insurance, which is required by law to have. Without an ID you cant even use the health insurance that you are required to have. So I just don't get why requiring someone once every 10 years to get an ID card that will last another 10 years, for which they need anyway, is beyond reasonable.
If you don't have ID you are shady.
Done and done.
I hope these homeless people that you deal with don't experience insults from you like that to me.
Unless you really are a 15 year old girl, and then of course you're not. They have no sense of humour.
The only reason you have provided is a childish, petty argument that boils down to "I have to have an ID so they should too".
There is little data on voter fraud because it is so incredibly easy to do it. All you need to register is a name and birthday (and I'm not even sure if those are cross referenced to make sure that person even exists-given the fact dead people are registered I doubt it is). No SSN, address, or anything else is needed. In a study DOI agents were able to register and vote 97% of the time using a deceased name or name of a felon in prison. You can literally go to a cemetery and write down 100 names and birthdays and expect nearly all of them to work.
But aside from potential fraud, I just don't get why it's an unreasonable request. heck, just bring in a copy of last year's tax return would be good enough-I mean since in a previous argument someone said if they pay taxes they should vote, ID or not.
2003: 4/29 Albany, 5/2 Buffalo, 7/9 MSG 2 2006: 5/12 Albany, 6/3 East Rutherford 2
2008: 6/27 Hartford 2009: 10/27 Philadelphia 1 2010: 5/15 Hartford, 5/21 MSG 2
2013: 10/15 Worcester 1, 10/25 Hartford 2014: 10/1 Cincinnati
2018: 9/2 Fenway 1
2003: 4/29 Albany, 5/2 Buffalo, 7/9 MSG 2 2006: 5/12 Albany, 6/3 East Rutherford 2
2008: 6/27 Hartford 2009: 10/27 Philadelphia 1 2010: 5/15 Hartford, 5/21 MSG 2
2013: 10/15 Worcester 1, 10/25 Hartford 2014: 10/1 Cincinnati
2018: 9/2 Fenway 1