There's a reason republicans are pushing. And it isn't fraud. Nuff said.
I agree about the Republicans but I don't agree it is nuff said. This shouldn't be a red vs blue, Democrat vs Republican issue. Both parties are trying to frame the issue a certain way and neither have it right, IMO.
Please provide an evidenced based reason as to why voters should have an id to vote.
We went through this in the other thread. I was perfectly clear then. Since we require people to register to vote, and we require they be eligible to vote, in my opinion we should require ID showing they are the person registered.
I do not need any more evidence than that nor does my opinion need to pass your muster.
Just thought we would make that clear for this thread, the people wanting other people to provide id to vote do so on belief and opinion....not evidence.
I personally believe policy should be based in evidence, fact and reason. Your opinion shouldn't factor into it.
I don't speak for "the people wanting other people to provide id to vote." I only speak for myself. And I want all people to show ID when they vote, myself included. All people, not "other people".
Our opinions factor into every discussion on this board. It is laughable to imply otherwise.
We have rules and regulations for the voting process but positively identifying ourselves isn't one of them. I think it should be and have been crystal clear on that point. You disagree. I'm fine with that, but through two threads now you have tried to mischaracterize my position. I remain unsure why you continue to do that.
I hope no one thinks you have to carry ID, or even are required to have an ID in the U.S.
I think you are required to have one on you here, actually. I don't have any evidence to back that up it's just something in the back of my head. You're required to provide ID if the police stop you for any thing. Maybe 5 years ago or so I didn't want to give a police officer my id when she asked for it and she threatened to take me to the station to "sort it out there". So I think it's rooted in some sort of fact, even if it's not the "law" it's still something you have to do.
and for the record, Social Security checks can be direct deposited now. In the case of those who are in care facilities there's usually someone who manages the account for them, either a family member or a private facilitator who makes sure the facility gets paid and that the patient gets their allowance. They do the mail in voter's thing if they are coherent enough. I found this in the FAQ on the BOE website: You may also vote by absentee ballot. If you have a long-term or permanent illness or disability, you can apply for a permanent absentee ballot and you will automatically receive one before each primary, special and general election.
Also I'd like to mention to anyone who may not know this that some places are doing municipal ID's now. I got my NYCID a couple months ago. I looked around the website but I can see if it's okay to use that to vote. It should be.
Is providing your voter id card not positively id yourself? Non picture
Potentially something like that could be providing there was a way to tie it to the person (which would be tricky without a picture) and that getting one was both easy and free.
Don't think we have an equivalent of a voter ID card here. I've never used one.
Is providing your voter id card not positively id yourself? Non picture
Potentially something like that could be providing there was a way to tie it to the person (which would be tricky without a picture) and that getting one was both easy and free.
Don't think we have an equivalent of a voter ID card here. I've never used one.
I have a voter id card keep it in car. Name address county voter # and party designation. It's printed on regular paper with state and county seal.
There is no problem with people pretending to be someone they are not at the voting booth. This all comes down to if it ain't broke, don't fix it. The system has worked fine for hundreds of years until some politicians came along and decided they need to change the system for political gain. Any way you split it, it isn't right. Simple as that.
Is providing your voter id card not positively id yourself? Non picture
Potentially something like that could be providing there was a way to tie it to the person (which would be tricky without a picture) and that getting one was both easy and free.
Don't think we have an equivalent of a voter ID card here. I've never used one.
I have a voter id card keep it in car. Name address county voter # and party designation. It's printed on regular paper with state and county seal.
Proponents of these laws have cited almost no instances of actual in-person voting fraud. Indeed, given the serious criminal penalties for such conduct and the minimal likelihood that a single vote would make a difference, one judge noted that you “would have to be insane to commit voter impersonation fraud.” Yet it is a convenient excuse to deny the franchise to poor and minority voters.
Great find, puts it all in a nice historical perspective.
Sounds like an interesting book. You'll get no argument from me that the activities of the Republicans on this issue have been undemocratic. I would go so far as to say criminal.
___________________________________________
"...I changed by not changing at all..."
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hedonist
standing on the edge of forever Posts: 24,524
Jimmy, I really appreciate your open-mindedness on this issue - not to mention other ones.
Jimmy, I really appreciate your open-mindedness on this issue - not to mention other ones.
That is all!
Have anything to add to the discussion?
Of all the horse shit posts in this forum you decide to call that one out? If you're the relevance police then you been doing a shitty job lately.
I took it in a lighter tone than that, as though dignin was actually interested in her opinion...internets make communications Liu difficile!
Apparently so
dignin, your initial comment didn't come off as you said above, so thanks for clarifying.
This issue has bled into other threads, so I'm not sure if my posts are in this one or others. But I have tossed a nickel or three into the discussion.
Jimmy, I really appreciate your open-mindedness on this issue - not to mention other ones.
That is all!
Have anything to add to the discussion?
Of all the horse shit posts in this forum you decide to call that one out? If you're the relevance police then you been doing a shitty job lately.
I took it in a lighter tone than that, as though dignin was actually interested in her opinion...internets make communications Liu difficile!
Apparently so
dignin, your initial comment didn't come off as you said above, so thanks for clarifying.
This issue has bled into other threads, so I'm not sure if my posts are in this one or others. But I have tossed a nickel or three into the discussion.
Jimmy, I really appreciate your open-mindedness on this issue - not to mention other ones.
That is all!
Have anything to add to the discussion?
Of all the horse shit posts in this forum you decide to call that one out? If you're the relevance police then you been doing a shitty job lately.
If you haven't noticed I don't engage with the trolls around here. And I don't troll, so if I ask a question, I mean it.
Ok, my bad apologies. Have you read thru all of the posts?
I'll ADD this, except for maybe 1 or 2 on here I don't keep mental track records
No prob.
I have read through most of the posts in this thread. Hedo at that time thought it reasonable to show id to vote, but that was 4 years ago and I was curious if that opinion had changed given the info since.
I think it's important to be flexible in a position when evidence challenges that position.
Jimmy, I really appreciate your open-mindedness on this issue - not to mention other ones.
That is all!
Have anything to add to the discussion?
Of all the horse shit posts in this forum you decide to call that one out? If you're the relevance police then you been doing a shitty job lately.
If you haven't noticed I don't engage with the trolls around here. And I don't troll, so if I ask a question, I mean it.
Ok, my bad apologies. Have you read thru all of the posts?
I'll ADD this, except for maybe 1 or 2 on here I don't keep mental track records
No prob.
I have read through most of the posts in this thread. Hedo at that time thought it reasonable to show id to vote, but that was 4 years ago and I was curious if that opinion had changed given the info since.
I think it's important to be flexible in a position when evidence challenges that position.
Bad back has hindered my physical flexibility but my mind's still there and open.
Like I said, I've chimed in recently (I guess they are in other current threads?). I'm just not inclined to search them out as they're there. Y'all feel free to have at it
Has anyone here argued that Republican conduct on this issue isn't suspect or that voter ID fraud is rampant? Does anyone here want to make that argument? Because through two threads now I have seen that argument consistently refuted but I am yet to see anyone actually make it. If you are out there I would be interested to hear from you. Maybe I've just missed it.
Has anyone here argued that Republican conduct on this issue isn't suspect or that voter ID fraud is rampant? Does anyone here want to make that argument? Because through two threads now I have seen that argument consistently refuted but I am yet to see anyone actually make it. If you are out there I would be interested to hear from you. Maybe I've just missed it.
That would be the only reason to provide id while voting. What other conclusion is there?
Has anyone here argued that Republican conduct on this issue isn't suspect or that voter ID fraud is rampant? Does anyone here want to make that argument? Because through two threads now I have seen that argument consistently refuted but I am yet to see anyone actually make it. If you are out there I would be interested to hear from you. Maybe I've just missed it.
That would be the only reason to provide id while voting. What other conclusion is there?
If people are making that argument let's hear from them.
Has anyone here argued that Republican conduct on this issue isn't suspect or that voter ID fraud is rampant? Does anyone here want to make that argument? Because through two threads now I have seen that argument consistently refuted but I am yet to see anyone actually make it. If you are out there I would be interested to hear from you. Maybe I've just missed it.
That would be the only reason to provide id while voting. What other conclusion is there?
If people are making that argument let's hear from them.
I think the point is that in the absence of that argument, and with voter disenfranchisement an accepted, inevitable result, there is no reason to initiate the ID process. "Because it is logical" is not a strong enough answer to the question of "why" when faced with the near certainty of voter disenfranchisement.
Comments
Our opinions factor into every discussion on this board. It is laughable to imply otherwise.
We have rules and regulations for the voting process but positively identifying ourselves isn't one of them. I think it should be and have been crystal clear on that point. You disagree. I'm fine with that, but through two threads now you have tried to mischaracterize my position. I remain unsure why you continue to do that.
"...I changed by not changing at all..."
and for the record, Social Security checks can be direct deposited now. In the case of those who are in care facilities there's usually someone who manages the account for them, either a family member or a private facilitator who makes sure the facility gets paid and that the patient gets their allowance. They do the mail in voter's thing if they are coherent enough. I found this in the FAQ on the BOE website: You may also vote by absentee ballot. If you have a long-term or permanent illness or disability, you can apply for a permanent absentee ballot and you will automatically receive one before each primary, special and general election.
Also I'd like to mention to anyone who may not know this that some places are doing municipal ID's now. I got my NYCID a couple months ago. I looked around the website but I can see if it's okay to use that to vote. It should be.
LIVEFOOTSTEPS.ORG/USER/?USR=435
Don't think we have an equivalent of a voter ID card here. I've never used one.
"...I changed by not changing at all..."
"...I changed by not changing at all..."
Great find, puts it all in a nice historical perspective.
"...I changed by not changing at all..."
That is all!
"...I changed by not changing at all..."
If you're the relevance police then you been doing a shitty job lately.
dignin, your initial comment didn't come off as you said above, so thanks for clarifying.
This issue has bled into other threads, so I'm not sure if my posts are in this one or others. But I have tossed a nickel or three into the discussion.
I'll ADD this, except for maybe 1 or 2 on here I don't keep mental track records
I have read through most of the posts in this thread. Hedo at that time thought it reasonable to show id to vote, but that was 4 years ago and I was curious if that opinion had changed given the info since.
I think it's important to be flexible in a position when evidence challenges that position.
Anger at Stephen Harper, disenfranchisement fuelled aboriginal voter turnout, say activists
Some communities saw voter turnout up by 270 per cent
http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/aboriginal-vote-disenfranchisement-harper-1.3288010
Like I said, I've chimed in recently (I guess they are in other current threads?). I'm just not inclined to search them out as they're there. Y'all feel free to have at it
"...I changed by not changing at all..."
"...I changed by not changing at all..."
"Because it is logical" is not a strong enough answer to the question of "why" when faced with the near certainty of voter disenfranchisement.