Has anyone here argued that Republican conduct on this issue isn't suspect or that voter ID fraud is rampant? Does anyone here want to make that argument? Because through two threads now I have seen that argument consistently refuted but I am yet to see anyone actually make it. If you are out there I would be interested to hear from you. Maybe I've just missed it.
That would be the only reason to provide id while voting. What other conclusion is there?
If people are making that argument let's hear from them.
I think the point is that in the absence of that argument, and with voter disenfranchisement an accepted, inevitable result, there is no reason to initiate the ID process. "Because it is logical" is not a strong enough answer to the question of "why" when faced with the near certainty of voter disenfranchisement.
I don't agree that if the system is truly fixed - as we have previously discussed - that there is anything close to a near certainty or even a likelihood that voters will be disenfranchised. What the Republicans are doing is disgusting, but that isn't an inherent problem with voter ID. It goes to a larger problem of voter suppression. I look at a system where ID's are easily obtained and free and I see presenting one at the polling place as being no different than registering to vote. We have controls in place and this feels like a natural extension of them.
At my polling place there is literally a collection of older people with books filled with large print checking people in. They are very sweet and I enjoy my interactions with them on voting day greatly. But every time they get older and every time the print in the book gets bigger and easier to read. Who on my street has voted and with which party's ballot, and who has not. And each time my mother's name, who hasn't lived in Massachusetts since 2008 and who has been registered in Florida since 2008, can clearly be seen as still being registered to vote here in Precint H. Each time I walk out thinking this is something we could do better.
Again though...if anyone here is under the belief that the GOP is acting in good faith or that there are legions of people committing voter ID fraud, please do speak up.
Has anyone here argued that Republican conduct on this issue isn't suspect or that voter ID fraud is rampant? Does anyone here want to make that argument? Because through two threads now I have seen that argument consistently refuted but I am yet to see anyone actually make it. If you are out there I would be interested to hear from you. Maybe I've just missed it.
That would be the only reason to provide id while voting. What other conclusion is there?
If people are making that argument let's hear from them.
I'm trying really hard to figure out your side of this. I just don't know what argument you are trying to make for voter id. If you don't think voter fraud is a problem then why make a "fix" to a problem that doesn't exist?
Or do you think it is a problem, just a very small problem? But a problem that should require millions of people to provide id to stop maybe..... maybe, a handful of idiots, from pretending to be someone who they are not, to vote.
We should be taking down barriers to vote, not putting up more.
Edit: I see rgambs has basically asked what I am asking and you have answered.
Amazing that some are troll prank calling and troll prank emailing those hotlines to tie up the resource. I wonder who is behind that? GOP
Forgot to mention that falsely using voter id laws is a convenient by product that helos the effort to turn away votes.
Who benefits more from shrinking the electorate in Michigan today: the Republicans who are locked in four or five way contest or the former Democratic Secretary of State?
If this is indeed going on then it is no coincidence Sanders is the one calling attention to it.
It never occurred to me as a conspiracy to reduce democratic votes.
It just seems like common sense and wise practice - I mean, who doesn't have a form of legal ID (assuming one is of legal citizenry)?
Why would it be considered over-the-top to show up at your polling place, declare "I'm so-and-so and I'm here to vote", and then be asked to confirm that you actually ARE so-and-so?
Millions and millions of eligible Americans don't have an adequate form of legal ID actually, and a majority of them are African American. As many as 25% of them don't, according to various sources. I totally believe that Republicans are trying to decrease votes with this..
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
It never occurred to me as a conspiracy to reduce democratic votes.
It just seems like common sense and wise practice - I mean, who doesn't have a form of legal ID (assuming one is of legal citizenry)?
Why would it be considered over-the-top to show up at your polling place, declare "I'm so-and-so and I'm here to vote", and then be asked to confirm that you actually ARE so-and-so?
Millions and millions of eligible Americans don't have an adequate form of legal ID actually, and a majority of them are African American. As many as 25% of them don't, according to various sources. I totally believe that Republicans are trying to decrease votes with this..
This is interesting. Can you post some links to this please.
I would never think that millions don't have ID. That's crazy.
It never occurred to me as a conspiracy to reduce democratic votes.
It just seems like common sense and wise practice - I mean, who doesn't have a form of legal ID (assuming one is of legal citizenry)?
Why would it be considered over-the-top to show up at your polling place, declare "I'm so-and-so and I'm here to vote", and then be asked to confirm that you actually ARE so-and-so?
Millions and millions of eligible Americans don't have an adequate form of legal ID actually, and a majority of them are African American. As many as 25% of them don't, according to various sources. I totally believe that Republicans are trying to decrease votes with this..
This is interesting. Can you post some links to this please.
I would never think that millions don't have ID. That's crazy.
Here are just a few that come up on the first page of a Google search:
It never occurred to me as a conspiracy to reduce democratic votes.
It just seems like common sense and wise practice - I mean, who doesn't have a form of legal ID (assuming one is of legal citizenry)?
Why would it be considered over-the-top to show up at your polling place, declare "I'm so-and-so and I'm here to vote", and then be asked to confirm that you actually ARE so-and-so?
Millions and millions of eligible Americans don't have an adequate form of legal ID actually, and a majority of them are African American. As many as 25% of them don't, according to various sources. I totally believe that Republicans are trying to decrease votes with this..
This is interesting. Can you post some links to this please.
I would never think that millions don't have ID. That's crazy.
Here are just a few that come up on the first page of a Google search:
Wow, 3.2 million in just 5 states. I wouldn't have guessed that many.
In an October 2011 report, the center said that in five states where photo ID laws were scheduled to take effect in 2012, some 3.2 million Americans, accounting for about 10 percent of the states’ voting-age residents, lacked government-issued photo IDs.
Check this out. Fucking outrageous that some of these same people support voter ID reform. Scum. Debbie Riddle can go to hell. This is an older story (same issue remains of course), but she's been around right up until this year.
Check this out. Fucking outrageous that some of these same people support voter ID reform. Scum. Debbie Riddle can go to hell. This is an older story (same issue remains of course), but she's been around right up until this year.
Check this out. Fucking outrageous that some of these same people support voter ID reform. Scum. Debbie Riddle can go to hell. This is an older story (same issue remains of course), but she's been around right up until this year.
She happens to be my representative and met her in small meeting for our street. She's a racist fear monger as well as a hypocrite. On way out let her know Obama's not the boogy man she makes him out to be. Her jaw dropped.
I think letting non citizens vote is horseshit, it's just wrong to let a citizen of another country vote for president of the united states.
Godfather.
...
It is more about the fraud perpetrated by American citizens, than non-citizens.
Like the guy in California that ran a nursing home and 'filled' out all of the resident's ballots for them. He din't fill them out to their wishes... some of them suffered from dementia... he filled them out to match his ballot.
He is an American... and so were all of the people at his nursing homes.
This is all total bullshit. Voter fraud is barely an issue at all. The numbers are so low that they are completely negligible. To choose trying to stop maybe 1000 fraudulent votes in the whole country over allowing MILLIONS of people to vote honestly is fucking corruption.
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
This is all total bullshit. Voter fraud is barely an issue at all. The numbers are so low that they are completely negligible. To choose trying to stop maybe 1000 fraudulent votes in the whole country over allowing MILLIONS of people to vote honestly is fucking corruption.
It is, but since it is logical corruption people who don't understand hardship just roll with it.
It never occurred to me as a conspiracy to reduce democratic votes.
It just seems like common sense and wise practice - I mean, who doesn't have a form of legal ID (assuming one is of legal citizenry)?
Why would it be considered over-the-top to show up at your polling place, declare "I'm so-and-so and I'm here to vote", and then be asked to confirm that you actually ARE so-and-so?
Millions and millions of eligible Americans don't have an adequate form of legal ID actually, and a majority of them are African American. As many as 25% of them don't, according to various sources. I totally believe that Republicans are trying to decrease votes with this..
Both sides have something to gain. Yes, it is commonly states that those who episodes t show up due to ID laws are most likely democrats. But non-citizens and illegals who would vote would also vote democrat. Both sides argue for their own agenda
States should use the same 2005 Indiana law. That requires that a voter present ID at the precinct on election day, with absentee voters and residents of state-licensed nursing homes exempted. The law also exempts anyone unable to afford documentation to obtain a photo ID (typically a birth certificate) and authorizes a provisional ballot for those lacking the ID. The voter who casts a provisional ballot then has 10 days to bring a photo ID to an elections official. The same procedure applies for those who claim a religious objection to being photographed.
This law was upheld by the Supreme Court. So, it can't be overturned by any lower court. I don't get why states don't follow the Indiana law, word for word.
Is it not so that someone walking around without an ID I would have greater concerns about weather he/she could vote or not? It's seems to me it's just not safe or wise to walk around without an ID.
I recently voted in my country's federal election. I rocked up to the polling station. They asked my name, my address and whether I'd previously voted in this particular election. Didn't even ask for ID.
hear my name
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
It is totally undude if this is the only piece of identification that you can provide and that you are technically an adult.
Agreed. Most high schools require students to carry IDs. Why is it unacceptable to expect an adult to carry something that shows who they are? It really isn't that difficult to get. you need one to travel, get many benefits, to have and use a credit card, use a checking or savings account- which are required to sign a lease for an apartment, car, phone service, and pretty much anything else. I'd be willing to bet that many who don't have one have some illegal reason for not having it (paid under the table to avoid taxes or child support, here illegally, etc). there is no valid reason for an adult living here legally to not have a form of ID. In my state a state issued ID will run you $11.50, and last several years (maybe longer).
Comments
At my polling place there is literally a collection of older people with books filled with large print checking people in. They are very sweet and I enjoy my interactions with them on voting day greatly. But every time they get older and every time the print in the book gets bigger and easier to read. Who on my street has voted and with which party's ballot, and who has not. And each time my mother's name, who hasn't lived in Massachusetts since 2008 and who has been registered in Florida since 2008, can clearly be seen as still being registered to vote here in Precint H. Each time I walk out thinking this is something we could do better.
"...I changed by not changing at all..."
"...I changed by not changing at all..."
Or do you think it is a problem, just a very small problem? But a problem that should require millions of people to provide id to stop maybe..... maybe, a handful of idiots, from pretending to be someone who they are not, to vote.
We should be taking down barriers to vote, not putting up more.
Edit: I see rgambs has basically asked what I am asking and you have answered.
Forgot to mention that falsely using voter id laws is a convenient by product that helos the effort to turn away votes.
If this is indeed going on then it is no coincidence Sanders is the one calling attention to it.
"...I changed by not changing at all..."
I would never think that millions don't have ID. That's crazy.
"Hear me, my chiefs!
I am tired; my heart is
sick and sad. From where
the sun stands I will fight
no more forever."
Chief Joseph - Nez Perce
http://www.npr.org/2012/01/28/146006217/why-new-photo-id-laws-mean-some-wont-vote
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-nation/wp/2016/02/29/voters-in-these-super-tuesday-states-will-face-new-stricter-requirements/
http://www.politifact.com/texas/statements/2012/jul/11/eric-holder/eric-holder-says-recent-studies-show-25-percent-af/
In an October 2011 report, the center said that in five states where photo ID laws were scheduled to take effect in 2012, some 3.2 million Americans, accounting for about 10 percent of the states’ voting-age residents, lacked government-issued photo IDs.
I was going to mention this the other day...do as I say not as I do.
All those lawmakers should be put in jail. Does this go on at everyone of them?
Holy shit.
It is more about the fraud perpetrated by American citizens, than non-citizens.
Like the guy in California that ran a nursing home and 'filled' out all of the resident's ballots for them. He din't fill them out to their wishes... some of them suffered from dementia... he filled them out to match his ballot.
He is an American... and so were all of the people at his nursing homes.
But, it is still fraud.
got it, thanks !
Godfather.
Court strikes down North Carolina voter ID law
This law was upheld by the Supreme Court. So, it can't be overturned by any lower court. I don't get why states don't follow the Indiana law, word for word.
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
It is totally undude if this is the only piece of identification that you can provide and that you are technically an adult.