women and marriage...

pandora

Mikee J wrote:

MissJam81 wrote:

nope, dont want a big wedding at all! id like an outdoor wedding, simple dress, nothing expensive, shoes off, by some gorgeous beach! close friends and family, violine playing.... ahhh.....

Or maybe a Uke playing?

I thought the exact same thing!

We eloped and took our family with us to a tiny chapel in the woods with a covered bridge
and babbling brook,
had a BBQ for the reception, then was in a wood pile in my wedding dress an hour later

Love is the grandest thing we have, helping it last perhaps the most difficult. It takes
loyalty, dedication and forgiveness, it takes two, that is the ultimate commitment,
two hearts.

PJ_Soul

I hate to say it, but I don't think you will "get over that". Trust me, as time goes on it will naw away at you, you will likely just grow resentful over time. If you feel marriage is important, then it IS important. If your boyfriend doesn't see eye to eye on this issue, I think it's probably going to end up being a deal breaker. You may as well try and be with someone who doesn't want children when you do. It just doesn't work in the long run. You can certaiy try to convince yourself that you can get past this but both personal experience and observation of others tells me that you likely will not enjoy how this turns out if you try and see it his way. If anything, he should be trying to change HIS view, because that way he is simply letting go of what is basically a phobia. If you try and change and ignore what you really feel, you are letting go of a dream and something that is deeply important to you. Now, which one sounds like something that should be let go of in this scenario??? ... if he really wants to spend his life with you, then he should marry you, because that's the only way you're going to be able to move forward happily and comfortably with him. Why are YOU automatically the one who has to change your feelings here, when yours are the positive feelings, and his are rooted in negativity and a deep seated fear if legal commitment with you??? You will not be happy if you choose that route.

PJ_Soul

your move now wrote:

yes okay... but I don'tobject to having a party - I object to what is an allegedly spiritual celebration needing to be a legal document

Ask anyone who IS married, and they will tell you that it means a LOT more than a party and a piece of paper. For those who believe in marriage it has a huge emotional and spiritual impact (not to mention what the legal papers DO mean, especially when you have children... in case of a break up when there are kids and custody issues involved, the piece of paper becomes VERY meaningful - more than most people who haven't been through it know... I've not been through it btw, but I watched a friend go through a custody battle and he learned tons about the differences between being married and just common law in custody cases, and it really does have a real impact). But anyway, besides protecting yourself in case of a break up, it's very meaningful emotionally, and has a huge impact on a relationship for most people. You may not care, but you are the minority.

I am not married and never have been btw. But I have been in a relationship where I wanted to get married, handheld didn't. I tried to live with it, but as time went on it got harder and harder to live with for me, and ultimately it had to end because of this very issue.

PJ_Soul

your move now wrote:

okay, but what everyone who is o concerned about marriage has failed to explain is how/why it improves a relatioonship. Why if you aren't religiou (in which case I make an exemption) and how does it make a difference over what (for example) ziggy and her bf have?

I I think it's rude to ask people to explain. Why should they? They find it very meaningful, that's it. Just respect that and move on.

PJ_Soul

your move now wrote:

but by calling marriage the ultimate committment you are by definition belittling the committment of non-married couples, I don't understand how that is in question.
It seems to me that you see the marriage as making your relationship superior and that is what i have an issue with.

Pandora... all I want from the OP is a reason she wants it, I don't have a problem with her wanting it just wish I could understand the why

Oh man... NONE OF YOUR BUSINESS. How about that? I'm only on page 2 of this (interesting) ... but I really hope you drop this line of questioning soon, as it is totally irrelevant to the OP's question, and she needs help, not an argument about the merits of marriage, her feeling for which have already been revealed clearly. :roll:

hedonist

pandora wrote:

Love is the grandest thing we have, helping it last perhaps the most difficult. It takes
loyalty, dedication and forgiveness, it takes two, that is the ultimate commitment,
two hearts.

This is very sweet and beautiful and true.

Might I add - whether via formal marriage and/or the commitment itself, it's never equal, the burdens shift...we have to lift the other when they need it, be there for them, be their ear to listen, shoulder to lean on...and accept the same when in a similar position.

Pride goes out the window but it's OK. Almost necessary.

I don't know that the words/vows themselves need to be spoken, when actually living them with the other.

For me, it's not so much about the ceremonial side, though I get it, big-time. Mikee, your honesty and passion for your choice made me smile. May you and your wife keep that "shout-it-from-the-top-of-the-world" attitude! And don't you ever apologize for it.

And, Ziggy's side of it - me and mine are in the same situation (no kids, just cats ), but have been together about as long and are living our life by the vows one would take in a ceremony - religious, civil, or otherwise. You too have every right to shout it out, live it out, in your own way.

MissJam81

pandora wrote:

Mikee J wrote:

MissJam81 wrote:

nope, dont want a big wedding at all! id like an outdoor wedding, simple dress, nothing expensive, shoes off, by some gorgeous beach! close friends and family, violine playing.... ahhh.....

Or maybe a Uke playing?

I thought the exact same thing!

We eloped and took our family with us to a tiny chapel in the woods with a covered bridge
and babbling brook,
had a BBQ for the reception, then was in a wood pile in my wedding dress an hour later

Love is the grandest thing we have, helping it last perhaps the most difficult. It takes
loyalty, dedication and forgiveness, it takes two, that is the ultimate commitment,
two hearts.

AWWWW! Uke playing would be amazing! Probably Longing to belong! a girl can dream eh??

Mikee J

hedonist wrote:

Mikee, your honesty and passion for your choice made me smile. May you and your wife keep that "shout-it-from-the-top-of-the-world" attitude! And don't you ever apologize for it.

And, Ziggy's side of it - me and mine are in the same situation (no kids, just cats ), but have been together about as long and are living our life by the vows one would take in a ceremony - religious, civil, or otherwise. You too have every right to shout it out, live it out, in your own way.

Thanks.... and I won't!!

MissJam81

dimitrispearljam wrote:

i understand the situation....isnt easy for both of you..
and you with your dream..and he with his ideas..and issues...

i ll tell you my opinion...cos i understand your boyfriend maybe better than others....

first,you dont let go your dreams..never..fight for them,work for them....you want something,you need to go for it..

and as for your man..is really up to you again...you are the one can make him feel secure and trust that your story has nothing to do with his past and his parents..its on your hands to make him feel the level of trust and safe to make your dream,his dream as well....

Thanks Dimitri, thats really nice Im working on it... its a shame cos we have such a great thing going on... you never know, he might change his mind when he gets older

MissJam81

Mikee J wrote:

ZiggyStar wrote:

So according to a couple of people above, after 13+ years my bf and I still haven't made the ultimate commitment? Bullshit! I find it sad that people need marriage to feel that they've fully committed, need it to vow to be there for each forever etc. I made that commitment well over a decade ago without a wedding to make it "an official union".

I'm not against marriage. I'm against people thinking that unmarried people aren't as committed as married people....when the only real difference is a piece of paper.

Who said that?! No one, that's your interpretation. I was saying what my perception of marriage is and why its important to me. I was not commenting on you. I find your post quite offensive to be honest. You say your are not against marriage but you clearly have no respect for the idea of it.

I find it sad that you feel the need to belittle marriage when I would do nothing other than wish you the best in your own relationship married or not.


I think people are different than each other, and have different priorities, and yeah marriage is an important thing to me, not because I want the commitment, what i want is get our families together in a big celebration day, to show everyone how much we mean to each other
Its a personal thing, the OP clearly sees it as an important thing too.

MissJam81

dimitrispearljam wrote:

ZiggyStar wrote:

Mikee J wrote:

By the way..

Just before I got married an guy told me a story. He said I had to go and buy a bottle of Mead which is a honey wine made for thousands of years, reportedly the oldest alcoholic drink. He said I should take it on my honeymoon and drink it under the moon. That's where the term honeymoon comes from. Couples would drink the Mead under the moon after the wedding as a good luck charm.

See! Marriage is full of beauty and romance! I love that shit!



(ps, sorry OP.... total thread highjack)

Yeah sorry OP!!

even seems that thread highjack isnt nessesary bad thing for OP..maybe can take some ideas and use them to speak to her man...maybe this turn to something usefull for her..
relationships arent easy,even you believe or not to marriage..need to work alot,never stop trying,and need to know to step back for make it work...

No problme Mikee!!! do you want to marry me???

Mikee J

MissJam81 wrote:

No problme Mikee!!! do you want to marry me???

I'll check with the wife.. maybe is we move to park city?

dimitrispearljam

MissJam81 wrote:

dimitrispearljam wrote:

i understand the situation....isnt easy for both of you..
and you with your dream..and he with his ideas..and issues...

i ll tell you my opinion...cos i understand your boyfriend maybe better than others....

first,you dont let go your dreams..never..fight for them,work for them....you want something,you need to go for it..

and as for your man..is really up to you again...you are the one can make him feel secure and trust that your story has nothing to do with his past and his parents..its on your hands to make him feel the level of trust and safe to make your dream,his dream as well....

Thanks Dimitri, thats really nice Im working on it... its a shame cos we have such a great thing going on... you never know, he might change his mind when he gets older

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YbqaKyVEFjU

MissJam81

PJ_Soul wrote:

your move now wrote:

but by calling marriage the ultimate committment you are by definition belittling the committment of non-married couples, I don't understand how that is in question.
It seems to me that you see the marriage as making your relationship superior and that is what i have an issue with.

Pandora... all I want from the OP is a reason she wants it, I don't have a problem with her wanting it just wish I could understand the why

Oh man... NONE OF YOUR BUSINESS. How about that? I'm only on page 2 of this (interesting) ... but I really hope you drop this line of questioning soon, as it is totally irrelevant to the OP's question, and she needs help, not an argument about the merits of marriage, her feeling for which have already been revealed clearly. :roll:

aw thanks

catefrances

MissJam81 wrote:

Hey everyone! Thanks for all the replies and opinions! its helped me a lot! I have spoken to him about it, and we both up for having a family in the near future, but I cant help my frustration feelings! I have considered seeing a counsellor but he refuses... I am a Counselling Trainee myself and know how that could help us through... anyway, it isnt just the commitment I want... i want to be his wife, cos I love him to bits! I'll finish reading all the comments, watch this space ps: Thanks Dimitri! Ur lovely!!

why do you want to be his wife? why isnt being with him simply as his partner, his equal enough? what does being someones wife mean? is it a need to belong? is it a need to be able to say...i am johnnys wife? i think the commitment comes irrespective of that peice of paper. what is a piece of paper going ot stop you doing? what does that piece of paper represent.. to you? do men tie themselves in knots thinking about being someones husband?

pandora

I would answer yes some men do!

It was JB who really wanted marriage.
He didn't want to just live together, when it was kind of the thing to do back then.
He knew how special we were as two. It deserved a celebration and yes ultimate commitment.
He was romantic, ready to commit and really enjoyed planning his proposal
and then the planning of our wedding excursion and week vacation
in our little honeymoon cabin on the chain of lakes.

We have made many memories in the last 30 years but our wedding and honeymoon
by far is the most special ... and we celebrate it every year... our lifetime love
by remembering that day and week of fun!

For some people this completes them, to be someone's husband or wife for life.
We are proud of each other and the entity that is our lasting bond, our marriage.
It is a lifetime accomplishment! It is our lives. I like being JB's wife,
he likes being Pandora's husband. This has been very cool


I would like to pose the question ... why not marry?
Is it a nonconforming issue, is it fear?
perhaps why the OP's boyfriend is afraid of jinxing something good? or failing?
Is it because one party balks?

Why not be married? cause it's not needed? But not everything in life is done out of need.
Much is done out of giving.

I always pictured our marriage as a gift given to each other. We gave ourselves to each other
for a lifetime... it was spoken and we meant it.

Mikee J

pandora wrote:

I always pictured our marriage as a gift given to each other. We gave ourselves to each other
for a lifetime... it was spoken and we meant it.

stargirl69

catefrances wrote:

MissJam81 wrote:

Hey everyone! Thanks for all the replies and opinions! its helped me a lot! I have spoken to him about it, and we both up for having a family in the near future, but I cant help my frustration feelings! I have considered seeing a counsellor but he refuses... I am a Counselling Trainee myself and know how that could help us through... anyway, it isnt just the commitment I want... i want to be his wife, cos I love him to bits! I'll finish reading all the comments, watch this space ps: Thanks Dimitri! Ur lovely!!

why do you want to be his wife? why isnt being with him simply as his partner, his equal enough? what does being someones wife mean? is it a need to belong? is it a need to be able to say...i am johnnys wife? i think the commitment comes irrespective of that peice of paper. what is a piece of paper going ot stop you doing? what does that piece of paper represent.. to you? do men tie themselves in knots thinking about being someones husband?

AlbertaGirl70_

I think a commitment is a commitment, married or not.....I'm married for 16 years,been together for 20, and my husband was exactly the same,no marriage because of a really bad example in his parents.......Until our 4 year old son at the time came home from school and asked how come mommy wasn't part of the family because she didn't have the same last name as daddy,brother and sister??......500$,1 week and a Justice of the Peace later he did it I just wouldn't analyze it to much unless you know for sure it's a deal breaker for you.....Everything works out one way or another for a reason.........

Cheeks

I agree with the previous post, not too analyze too much unless you're sure it's a deal breaker. I wouldn't build a life based on the hope that he will change his mind, but you never know what the future has planned.

I wasn't much of a marriage person. My husband talked about getting married quite often, but I was always sort if indifferent to the idea. However, about six years into our relationship we had to deal with the most traumatic event of our lives to date. How we dealt with it as a couple, and supported eachother and helped eachother is really want changed our relationship and took it to the next level... what cemented us together. But for whatever reason, that is what really changed my feelings on marriage. I can't explain it, but I just had to marry him after that.