women and marriage...

ZiggyStar

pandora wrote:

Perhaps you should reread the couple of people Ziggy, you totally misunderstand ...

I mentioned it takes two in a commitment married or otherwise and that marriage isn't
for everyone but for you and your partner both of you don't want marriage.
This is not the case for the OP. That is an important factor.

Yep, I reread it and you said:

pandora wrote:

Marriage is the ultimate commitment, the finality, the prize.

Both you and Mikee said "ultimate commitment"....and this is what I am discussing with you both.

I never said we don't want marriage....If you reread my very first post I said we'll probably do it one day once we finish having kids so they can be involved.

your move now

okay, well I'm different in that sense.... i have no desire to be married. BUT I don't understand why a piece of paper + a ceremony makes it the ultimate committment?
If someone needed marriage from me I'd need much more of a reason than that

Mikee J

ZiggyStar wrote:

Mikee J wrote:

Who said that?! No one, that's your interpretation. I was saying what my perception of marriage is and why its important to me. I was not commenting on you. I find your post quite offensive to be honest. You say your are not against marriage but you clearly have no respect for the idea of it.

I find it sad that you feel the need to belittle marriage when I would do nothing other than wish you the best in your own relationship married or not.

Its a personal thing, the OP clearly sees it as an important thing too.

Ahhh....you said:

Mikee J wrote:

Marriage is the ultimate commitment.

Sooo wouldn't that mean that unmarried people haven't made the ultimate commitment?? It's almost as if you're saying "it's the next level of commitment".

I'm not belittling marriage....I'm saying it's no different to a long term committed relationship. No different whatsoever. And I have respect for it....just as I have respect for all the people who aren't married but in loving relationships who have also made the "ultimate commitment" of dedicating their lives to each other....piece of paper or not.

And if you find that post offensive, you need to toughen up.

Thanks for the advice I'll remember that next time I read something offensive. Really helpful.


It sounds to me like you are a bit intimidated my marriage. You can suggest what you like about my definition of commitment. Its clearly not what you believe and that's fine. To me its the ultimate commitment. If its not for you then that's fine too. There doesn't have to be a secondary meaning which suggests a negative connotation towards not being married.

Mikee J

I really don't understand why two people describing marriage as the ultimate commitment would cause you to be so defensive about not being married. You could get really freudian on that point!

pandora

ZiggyStar wrote:

pandora wrote:

Perhaps you should reread the couple of people Ziggy, you totally misunderstand ...

I mentioned it takes two in a commitment married or otherwise and that marriage isn't
for everyone but for you and your partner both of you don't want marriage.
This is not the case for the OP. That is an important factor.

Yep, I reread it and you said:

pandora wrote:

Marriage is the ultimate commitment, the finality, the prize.

Both you and Mikee said "ultimate commitment"....and this is what I am discussing with you both.

I never said we don't want marriage....If you reread my very first post I said we'll probably do it one day once we finish having kids so they can be involved.

Should have said for some people as I did in other posts... got many common law friends
so I understand but for the OP it is the ultimate commitment ...
she wants to get married and what is disturbing to me I feel almost like
she is apologizing for a natural want. There is nothing wrong with wanting marriage
and a wedding day.

your move now

but by calling marriage the ultimate committment you are by definition belittling the committment of non-married couples, I don't understand how that is in question.
It seems to me that you see the marriage as making your relationship superior and that is what i have an issue with.

Pandora... all I want from the OP is a reason she wants it, I don't have a problem with her wanting it just wish I could understand the why

pandora

your move now wrote:

okay, well I'm different in that sense.... i have no desire to be married. BUT I don't understand why a piece of paper + a ceremony makes it the ultimate committment?
If someone needed marriage from me I'd need much more of a reason than that

this is not marriage vs non marriage discussion

it is about making a relationship work as a lifetime love...
for some that is marriage

would this someone wanting to be married be enough of a reason?

Mikee J

your move now wrote:

but by calling marriage the ultimate committment you are by definition belittling the committment of non-married couples, I don't understand how that is in question.
It seems to me that you see the marriage as making your relationship superior and that is what i have an issue with.

Pandora... all I want from the OP is a reason she wants it, I don't have a problem with her wanting it just wish I could understand the why

I get the feeling I could harp on about it all day and you still wouldn't understand. I certainly don't consider marriage as superior to any other kind of relationship, I don't understand how you could ignore all the other things written and still suggest that. My family is littered with broken marriages and broken non marriages. Each marriage is individual as is a non married relationship, I don't think you can really say that one f better than the other when they are completely different. There are many bad marriages which would make not being married look superior and vice versa. I could keep telling you how amazing my marriage is but you don't seem to want to hear it....

I think if the OP told you her reasons you would bat them down as ridiculous.

For me its the ultimate commitment, and I am proud I made it. If that gets your goat then there is not much I can do about it.

polaris_x

back to the OP ... hahaha

it seems your choices are simple but not easy ... you should tell him how you feel about it and he can voice his feelings ... ultimately, you both will have to decide whether your belief system is more important than each other ... if so ... compromise ... if not ... move on ...

but might i suggest a compromise - they are cool and hip these days ... ... it's called a "commitment:" party ... no ceremony with a JP or priest ... no witnesses or anything ... just a party ... a party to celebrate your love for each other ...

Mikee J

polaris_x wrote:

back to the OP ... hahaha

it seems your choices are simple but not easy ... you should tell him how you feel about it and he can voice his feelings ... ultimately, you both will have to decide whether your belief system is more important than each other ... if so ... compromise ... if not ... move on ...

but might i suggest a compromise - they are cool and hip these days ... ... it's called a "commitment:" party ... no ceremony with a JP or priest ... no witnesses or anything ... just a party ... a party to celebrate your love for each other ...

Careful not to have any pieces of paper laying around though!

ZiggyStar

your move now wrote:

but by calling marriage the ultimate committment you are by definition belittling the committment of non-married couples, I don't understand how that is in question.
It seems to me that you see the marriage as making your relationship superior and that is what i have an issue with.

Exactly! We are totally on the same page.



And Mikee, how am I intimated by marriage when I've already stated twice we will probably do it one day....huh? Intimation is definitely not the reason why I am not already "married"....even though we already are "married" in every aspect bar the piece of paper. Makes no sense.

pandora

your move now wrote:

but by calling marriage the ultimate committment you are by definition belittling the committment of non-married couples, I don't understand how that is in question.
It seems to me that you see the marriage as making your relationship superior and that is what i have an issue with.

Pandora... all I want from the OP is a reason she wants it, I don't have a problem with her wanting it just wish I could understand the why

It is the ultimate commitment for some people ...actually for a lot of people.

Unfortunately unless you view it as a lifelong love it means little.
Both parties committed to lifelong love. As I said I know many couples in a common law
marriage, who like you, look at marriage as a piece of paper.

I think perhaps the OP does not, as I do not. The legality of our marriage did help
during very rocky times ... 3 decades can bring lots of upsets as you might know.
I believe for us marriage was part of our bond. We took vows, for the two of us,
that meant something.
If that means something to the OP then I go back to her partner
getting some counseling to remove the fear he has
of making the same mistakes his parents did.
Because he might be doing just that by not listening nor respecting
the commitment his lady wants to make.

ZiggyStar

MissJam81 wrote:

Im here for some advice! Ive been with my partner for 6 years, and dreamt of a gorgeous wedding and getting marriage from the age of 14....Im now 31, have met the man I want to marry.... except he doesnt believe in marriage, due to his traumatic childhood watching his parents argue for years.... we talked and I told him Im fine with just being boyfriend and girlfriend.... but Im not really, therefore Ive been very frustrated for the past few months.... any advice on how to get over that?? why do we ladies, give so much s***t about marriage and weddings??? thanks in advance

My advice is stop telling him lies. That's no way to start the road to the ultimate commitment.

Mikee J

ZiggyStar wrote:

And Mikee, how am I intimated by marriage when I've already stated twice we will probably do it one day....huh? Intimation is definitely not the reason why I am not already "married"....even though we already are "married" in every aspect bar the piece of paper. Makes no sense.

Your response to the phrase ultimate commitment. You immediately assumed that I meant it was a higher "level" commitment than your own relationship. This defensiveness seemed to me to be quite telling. My apologies if that is not the case.

I hope, if you do get married, you will come back here and tell us your feelings about it. I for one will be very interested to hear them.

Mikee J

ZiggyStar wrote:

MissJam81 wrote:

Im here for some advice! Ive been with my partner for 6 years, and dreamt of a gorgeous wedding and getting marriage from the age of 14....Im now 31, have met the man I want to marry.... except he doesnt believe in marriage, due to his traumatic childhood watching his parents argue for years.... we talked and I told him Im fine with just being boyfriend and girlfriend.... but Im not really, therefore Ive been very frustrated for the past few months.... any advice on how to get over that?? why do we ladies, give so much s***t about marriage and weddings??? thanks in advance

My advice is stop telling him lies. That's no way to start the road to the ultimate commitment.

Really got you didn't it!

ZiggyStar

Mikee J wrote:

Your response to the phrase ultimate commitment. You immediately assumed that I meant it was a higher "level" commitment than your own relationship. This defensiveness seemed to me to be quite telling. My apologies if that is not the case.

I hope, if you do get married, you will come back here and tell us your feelings about it. I for one will be very interested to hear them.

Deal! When it happens, I'll be sure to tell you whether it changed anything or I feel differently. We'll be nearing two decades together by then I'd say. I'm thinking nothing will change at all....but we shall see!

Mikee J

ZiggyStar wrote:

Mikee J wrote:

Your response to the phrase ultimate commitment. You immediately assumed that I meant it was a higher "level" commitment than your own relationship. This defensiveness seemed to me to be quite telling. My apologies if that is not the case.

I hope, if you do get married, you will come back here and tell us your feelings about it. I for one will be very interested to hear them.

Deal! When it happens, I'll be sure to tell you whether it changed anything or I feel differently. We'll be nearing two decades together by then I'd say. I'm thinking nothing will change at all....but we shall see!

Congratulations in advance

ZiggyStar

Mikee J wrote:

Really got you didn't it!

Only because I wholeheartedly disagree with what the comment infers....even though you have made it clear that that is not what you actually meant....even though you do think marriage is the ultimate commitment.

pandora

ZiggyStar wrote:

MissJam81 wrote:

Im here for some advice! Ive been with my partner for 6 years, and dreamt of a gorgeous wedding and getting marriage from the age of 14....Im now 31, have met the man I want to marry.... except he doesnt believe in marriage, due to his traumatic childhood watching his parents argue for years.... we talked and I told him Im fine with just being boyfriend and girlfriend.... but Im not really, therefore Ive been very frustrated for the past few months.... any advice on how to get over that?? why do we ladies, give so much s***t about marriage and weddings??? thanks in advance

My advice is stop telling him lies. That's no way to start the road to the ultimate commitment.

I think the OP is afraid too Ziggy ... Afraid if she makes demands it will make waves
rock the boat.

Have we given advice to get her over her frustration?

My advice is make demands rock the boat, best to know now after 6 years if it
is going to sink or not ...
this young man will show how committed he is to lifetime love and what means something
very important to his lifetime lover.

6 years is a honeymoon...

ZiggyStar

Mikee J wrote:

Congratulations in advance

Haha Smart arse!