Going to have to correct you on this one, the Cons gained the most from the Libs collapse (in Ontario giving them the majority) and the NDP gained from the collapse of the Bloc in Quebec. The lesson to be learned here...Liberal voters are Assholes
well ... the cons only gained 20 some odd seats since the 08 election ... but definitely, ontario was where they gained their seats to have their majority ... although election results should be disputed ...
3 years from the next election is a looooong time...a lot can change...voters have super short memories.
The NDP has a lot of seats in Quebec ... are the voters in Quebec going to stick with the NDP?
The liberals will have a new leader by the next election.
And after the polls were soooooooo wrong about the Alberta election, I don't necessarily trust polls.
ohhh ... for sure ... my point is really that there is a feeling that the ndp will never form a gov't in canada ... i think that even if the polls are wrong - just even coming close to the conservatives is a statement ... they have obviously benefited the most from the liberal collapse but it's interesting to see it hold ...
i think the ndp have a very good shot in quebec simply because the populace is centre-left ... their only choice is the bloc or the ndp ... and the liberals are going nowhere because bob rae is the most qualified leader they have but his baggage is too much to overcome ... especially amongst your average canadian ...
The NDP might be closer than ever to having a chance to form government. Only time will tell. They are adding more seats for the next election.
I wonder if these seats will be in areas where the cons have the best chance of winning those seats.
I have certain rules I live by ... My First Rule ... I don't believe anything the government tells me ... George Carlin
"Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
The NDP might be closer than ever to having a chance to form government. Only time will tell. They are adding more seats for the next election.
I wonder if these seats will be in areas where the cons have the best chance of winning those seats.
ya ... for sure ... it's just weird considering what popular opinion would have been just 2 years ago ...
i think the ndp can make significant inroads in ontario and bc ... it really depends on who the liberals choose as party leader ... right now the candidates being tossed around don't seem like they will be able to lift that party up especially when their stronghold province in ontario continues to wallow under mcguinty ... if the ndp can gain like 30 some odd seats ... they will win the next election ...
Haven't been around for a while.....I can’t help but be a bit heartened by the Alberta election results….yes, it was still a PC vote, and the PC’s are not much better than the WRP…but most people outside of AB’s bible belt sent a strong message that the social conservatism the WRP was pushing will not fly here. I think some people around Edmonton see themselves as being worldly and progressive by NOT voting WRP….and that bodes well for our future in that people felt they were taking a stand against intolerance, and yes, even a stand FOR the environment.
What doesn’t bode well for our future, is the way the WRP was hyped in this province. I’ve never seen such a blatant media agenda….the WRP came basically out of nowhere, with a TON of hype. Yes, they would have been in contention in a lot of electoral districts, but to read the papers and watch the msm news, you’d think they had the election in the bag.
Honestly, I think it is all a bit of carried-over fear from the federal election. Big oil saw the writing on the wall and put their weight behind a further-right party to prevent a shift to the left. I think the federal parties somewhat influence peoples’ opinions of the provincial parties…the Liberal showing in this provincial election proves that to a degree. They totally tanked. I’m guessing, but I think it’s safe to say that it wasn’t all disgruntled former Libs voting for the WRP. I think the disgruntled Libs are the people who voted the PC’s their majority, as a strategic vote. I also think there were a lot of people who don’t normally vote, who showed up to strategically vote against the WRP (turnout was up 40% over the last provincial election). It was disgruntled PC voters that voted WRP. Sooo….if the disgruntled Lib/centrist voters hadn’t felt the need to vote strategically due to the WRP hype in the media, what do you think would have happened? We likely would have had a strong NDP opposition, a mirror of the federal election….which is a f’n nightmare for big oil. The WRP hype allowed an extremist party to be voted in by the religious right fundamentalists down south, and prevented the NDP from gaining ground.
Bill C-38 shows us how far Parliament has fallen
Andrew Coyne Apr 30, 2012 – 7:21 PM ET | Last Updated: Apr 30, 2012 8:32 PM ET
You know, this is the sort of thing people used to make quite a bit of a fuss over.
Bill C-38, introduced in the House last week, calls itself, innocuously, “An Act to implement certain provisions of the budget tabled in Parliament on March 29, 2012 and other measures.” The bill does implement certain budget provisions, it is true: for example, the controversial changes to Old Age Security. But “and other measures” rather understates matters — to understate the matter.
The bill runs to more than 420 pages. It amends some 60 different acts, repeals half a dozen, and adds three more, including a completely rewritten Canadian Environmental Assessment Act. It ranges far beyond the traditional budget concerns of taxing and spending, making changes in policy across a number of fields from immigration (among other changes, it erases at a stroke the entire backlog of applications under the skilled worker program), to telecommunications (opening the door, slightly, to foreign ownership), to land codes on native reservations.
The environmental chapters are the most extraordinary. Along with the new Act, they give cabinet broader power to override decisions of the National Energy Board, shorten the list of protected species, and abolish the Kyoto Protocol Implementation Act — among “other measures.” For much of this the first public notice was its inclusion in the bill.
So this is not remotely a budget bill, despite its name. It is what is known as an omnibus bill. If you want to know how far Parliament has fallen, how little real oversight it now exercises over government, this should give you a clue.
Omnibus bills are not unknown: indeed, every budget is a kind of omnibus bill, bundling a range of different measures under the general rubric of “supply,” the ancient prerogative of Parliament to approve or withhold funds to the Crown to carry out its program of government. The omnibus crime bill, likewise, collected a number of different pieces of the Conservatives’ law and order agenda under one heading.
But lately the practice has been to throw together all manner of bills involving wholly different responsibilities of government in one all-purpose “budget implementation” bill, and force MPs to vote up or down on the lot. While the 2012 budget implementation bill is hardly the first in this tradition, the scale and scope is on a level not previously seen, or tolerated.
Not only does this make a mockery of the confidence convention, shielding bills that would otherwise be defeatable within a money bill, which is not: It makes it impossible to know what Parliament really intended by any of it. We’ve no idea whether MPs supported or opposed any particular bill in the bunch, only that they voted for the legislation that contained them. There is no common thread that runs between them, no overarching principle; they represent not a single act of policy, but a sort of compulsory buffet.
To be sure, a government with a majority would likely have little difficulty passing them separately, so obediently do MPs now submit to the party whip. But there is something quite alarming about Parliament being obliged to rubber-stamp the government’s whole legislative agenda at one go.
Moreover, it utterly eviscerates the committee process, until now regarded as one of the last useful roles left to MPs. How can one committee, in this case Finance, properly examine all of these diverse measures, with all of the many areas of expertise they require, especially in the time allotted to them?
My point is not that any of the bill’s provisions are good or bad in themselves (that’s the kind of thing committee hearings and debate often help to clarify). Nor is there anything unlawful in any of this, so far as I’m aware. According to House of Commons Procedure and Practice, “it appears to be entirely proper, in procedural terms” for a bill to amend more than one act; Speakers have generally refused appeals to divide them.
But there’s a limit. What is lawful may nevertheless be illegitimate, especially where fundamental issues of Parliamentary government are in play. For, in combination with so many recent abuses, from prorogation to the F-35s, that is what is at stake here.
That Parliament has lost control of the public purse is now a commonplace. Governments routinely spend billions more than they were budgeted. Estimates are voted through without serious scrutiny. Funds that were approved for the construction of, say, border infrastructure end up being spent on, say, gazebos hundreds of miles away.
But the increasing use of these omnibills extends Parliament’s powerlessness in all directions: it has become, if you will, omnimpotent — a ceremonial body, little more. What is worse, it cannot even seem to rouse itself to its own defence.
Once upon a time such insults could be relied upon to produce unruly scenes in the House, obstruction of government business and whatnot. The packaging of several pieces of legislation into one omnibus energy bill in 1982 provoked the opposition to refuse to enter the House to vote. The division bells rang for nearly three weeks until the government agreed to split the bill. The insertion of a single change to environmental legislation in the 2005 budget bill, a note from the Green Party reminds us, so enraged the then leader of the Opposition, Stephen Harper, that he threatened to bring down the government.
But today’s Parliament is so accustomed to these indignities that it barely registers. It has lost not only the power to resist, it seems, but the will.
This is a very, very looooong article...I won't post the text or it will make scrolling thru this page a pain....
I'm only halfway thru this, but it's been a great read so far.
Fixing Elections Through Fraud
On the Need for a Royal Commission on Electoral Practices in Canada
by Anthony J. Hall
The declining credibility of elections in many countries is creating a crisis of legitimacy severing bonds of trust that once linked citizens to the institutions that govern us. Without credible proof that those governing on our behalf really have earned our supportive consent in free and fair elections, one of humanity’s greatest innovations is rendered null and void.
on the issue of the WRP ... i think they will get their day in the sun ... their rise mirrors that of the conservative/alliance/reform party ...
on the issue of the environment ... it's pretty obvious where harper stands ... he basically has a disdain for the environment and everyone associated with it ...
on the issue of elections ... there is no accountability ...
Why with all the technology available can we not simplify the election process...for example...many people complained that they were directed to the wrong polling station...solution issue everyone voting cards allowing a person to vote anywhere in their riding with the swipe of a card...once your cards been swiped it cant be used for that election again.
And that's just an example...we got great technology but seem to refuse to really use it.
I have certain rules I live by ... My First Rule ... I don't believe anything the government tells me ... George Carlin
"Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
Why with all the technology available can we not simplify the election process...for example...many people complained that they were directed to the wrong polling station...solution issue everyone voting cards allowing a person to vote anywhere in their riding with the swipe of a card...once your cards been swiped it cant be used for that election again.
And that's just an example...we got great technology but seem to refuse to really use it.
the problem is ... it's like any security feature and unscrupulous folks ... you put an alarm in your home ... thieves eventually figure it out ... you put protective measures on your currency ... counterfeiters figure it out ... although i agree that we should make the election as corruption free as possible - i just don't feel it would deter the folks that are prepared to bend the rules ... we implement all these changes and those fuckers would just figure out a way to by pass it ...
Why with all the technology available can we not simplify the election process...for example...many people complained that they were directed to the wrong polling station...solution issue everyone voting cards allowing a person to vote anywhere in their riding with the swipe of a card...once your cards been swiped it cant be used for that election again.
And that's just an example...we got great technology but seem to refuse to really use it.
the problem is ... it's like any security feature and unscrupulous folks ... you put an alarm in your home ... thieves eventually figure it out ... you put protective measures on your currency ... counterfeiters figure it out ... although i agree that we should make the election as corruption free as possible - i just don't feel it would deter the folks that are prepared to bend the rules ... we implement all these changes and those fuckers would just figure out a way to by pass it ...
I agree with you there about people always finding a way to get around...seems to me the biggest problem in the last election was people going to the wrong voting station ... in the future we need to make it possible to vote anywhere in the riding.
I am unsure as to why the liberals and ndp are not suing the conservatives if the feel the election was won by fraud.
I have certain rules I live by ... My First Rule ... I don't believe anything the government tells me ... George Carlin
"Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
I agree with you there about people always finding a way to get around...seems to me the biggest problem in the last election was people going to the wrong voting station ... in the future we need to make it possible to vote anywhere in the riding.
I am unsure as to why the liberals and ndp are not suing the conservatives if the feel the election was won by fraud.
there is an elections canada investigation ... i think they are gonna wait for that to happen first ...
I agree with you there about people always finding a way to get around...seems to me the biggest problem in the last election was people going to the wrong voting station ... in the future we need to make it possible to vote anywhere in the riding.
I am unsure as to why the liberals and ndp are not suing the conservatives if the feel the election was won by fraud.
there is an elections canada investigation ... i think they are gonna wait for that to happen first ...
in the meantime if the election is found to be fraudulent look at all the damage the conservatives will do ... the investigation would only really be helpful if they could offer remedies like nullify the vote in the riding's that were found to be won by fraud and order by - elections, nullify those members votes in the house of commons ...if that means the conservatives don't have enough votes all the bills that were passed are declared dead ... if its determined the election win was a scam then the results should be overturned.
I have certain rules I live by ... My First Rule ... I don't believe anything the government tells me ... George Carlin
"Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
in the meantime if the election is found to be fraudulent look at all the damage the conservatives will do ... the investigation would only really be helpful if they could offer remedies like nullify the vote in the riding's that were found to be won by fraud and order by - elections, nullify those members votes in the house of commons ...if that means the conservatives don't have enough votes all the bills that were passed are declared dead ... if its determined the election win was a scam then the results should be overturned.
totally agree ... i get green party emails and they have touched on this issue ... i don't get ndp or liberal emails so i'm not sure if they are actively pursuing this ...
in the meantime if the election is found to be fraudulent look at all the damage the conservatives will do ... the investigation would only really be helpful if they could offer remedies like nullify the vote in the riding's that were found to be won by fraud and order by - elections, nullify those members votes in the house of commons ...if that means the conservatives don't have enough votes all the bills that were passed are declared dead ... if its determined the election win was a scam then the results should be overturned.
totally agree ... i get green party emails and they have touched on this issue ... i don't get ndp or liberal emails so i'm not sure if they are actively pursuing this ...
I don't understand why the provinces aren't interested in pursuing this? If its an illegimate government creating legislation that could effect provinces then they have a vested interest in seeing this resolved properly.
I have certain rules I live by ... My First Rule ... I don't believe anything the government tells me ... George Carlin
"Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
I don't understand why the provinces aren't interested in pursuing this? If its an illegimate government creating legislation that could effect provinces then they have a vested interest in seeing this resolved properly.
probably because this gov't has shown their vindictive side ... any province which pursues this will be punished ... it's the way they operate ...
Conservatives pass motion to limit debate on massive budget implementation bill
By: The Canadian Press
OTTAWA - A federal budget bill that makes sweeping changes to several facets of Canadian life will be swiftly pushed through the Commons so it can be passed by the summer.
The Conservatives passed a motion Thursday that will limit second reading debate on Bill C-38 to seven days, setting off cries among critics that this is too little time to discuss the broad, 425-page bill.
Bill C-38, which the government calls the Jobs, Growth and Long-Term Prosperity Act, implements some of the provisions outlined in the recent federal budget, including changes to old age security.
But it also amends about 60 different laws, eliminates a half dozen others and rewrites the Canadian Environmental Assessment Act.
The Conservatives argue that far-ranging bills of its kind have been handled this way before and expressed surprise at the sudden cries of outrage from the Opposition.
"It's important that we get the bill passed before the end of June," Finance Minister Jim Flaherty said.
"It's all in the budget (and) the budget is a month old."
During debate on Thursday, Opposition MPs slammed the Conservatives for sticking to talking points and refusing to discuss the controversial contents of the bill.
"This isn't a four-pager," said NDP MP Malcolm Allen.
"This is 400 pages that impact not only the budget but a multitude of other agencies and regulations that will dramatically change in many areas."
A vote on the bill will be called May 14 and then it will head off to the House of Commons finance committee.
The Tory-dominated committee is expected to then strike a subcommittee to examine changes to the environmental assessment program contained in the bill.
Meanwhile, senators will pre-study the bill and have agreed to parcel out some portions of it to their own committees, including the provisions on immigration reforms, financial sector oversight and border measures.
Pre-studying means they will be able to formally debate and vote on the bill as soon as it is sent over from the Commons.
A second budget implementation bill is expected in the fall.
motherfuckers. How can anyone consider this a legitimate democratic practice?
I don't understand why the provinces aren't interested in pursuing this? If its an illegimate government creating legislation that could effect provinces then they have a vested interest in seeing this resolved properly.
probably because this gov't has shown their vindictive side ... any province which pursues this will be punished ... it's the way they operate ...
It's looking very much like the liberals back in the 90's were right...he has a secret agenda...unfortunately a lot of damage can/will be caused by the next election.
I have certain rules I live by ... My First Rule ... I don't believe anything the government tells me ... George Carlin
"Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
Conservatives pass motion to limit debate on massive budget implementation bill
By: The Canadian Press
OTTAWA - A federal budget bill that makes sweeping changes to several facets of Canadian life will be swiftly pushed through the Commons so it can be passed by the summer.
The Conservatives passed a motion Thursday that will limit second reading debate on Bill C-38 to seven days, setting off cries among critics that this is too little time to discuss the broad, 425-page bill.
Bill C-38, which the government calls the Jobs, Growth and Long-Term Prosperity Act, implements some of the provisions outlined in the recent federal budget, including changes to old age security.
But it also amends about 60 different laws, eliminates a half dozen others and rewrites the Canadian Environmental Assessment Act.
The Conservatives argue that far-ranging bills of its kind have been handled this way before and expressed surprise at the sudden cries of outrage from the Opposition.
"It's important that we get the bill passed before the end of June," Finance Minister Jim Flaherty said.
"It's all in the budget (and) the budget is a month old."
During debate on Thursday, Opposition MPs slammed the Conservatives for sticking to talking points and refusing to discuss the controversial contents of the bill.
"This isn't a four-pager," said NDP MP Malcolm Allen.
"This is 400 pages that impact not only the budget but a multitude of other agencies and regulations that will dramatically change in many areas."
A vote on the bill will be called May 14 and then it will head off to the House of Commons finance committee.
The Tory-dominated committee is expected to then strike a subcommittee to examine changes to the environmental assessment program contained in the bill.
Meanwhile, senators will pre-study the bill and have agreed to parcel out some portions of it to their own committees, including the provisions on immigration reforms, financial sector oversight and border measures.
Pre-studying means they will be able to formally debate and vote on the bill as soon as it is sent over from the Commons.
A second budget implementation bill is expected in the fall.
motherfuckers. How can anyone consider this a legitimate democratic practice?
Just another blow for democracy in Canada...its obvious he has ne interest in demicracy.
I have certain rules I live by ... My First Rule ... I don't believe anything the government tells me ... George Carlin
"Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
It's looking very much like the liberals back in the 90's were right...he has a secret agenda...unfortunately a lot of damage can/will be caused by the next election.
you think!?? ... fucker ... :evil: :evil:
where are the conservatives on this board!?? ... i'd really like to hear them justify this blatant BS ... somehow, i told you so just isn't gonna cut it ... :(
It's looking very much like the liberals back in the 90's were right...he has a secret agenda...unfortunately a lot of damage can/will be caused by the next election.
you think!?? ... fucker ... :evil: :evil:
where are the conservatives on this board!?? ... i'd really like to hear them justify this blatant BS ... somehow, i told you so just isn't gonna cut it ... :(
Whatever happened to reborn? Has there ever been another conservative Canadian poster on the train?
Whatever happened to reborn? Has there ever been another conservative Canadian poster on the train?
not sure ... reborn was a weird one cuz he on one hand sided with conservatives on some issues and then the ndp on others ... one thing was he hated the liberals i think ...
i'm guessing a lot of the moderate canadians on here (not gonna name names) voted conservative ...
lukin2006 was a conservative guy but he has seen the light! ...
Whatever happened to reborn? Has there ever been another conservative Canadian poster on the train?
not sure ... reborn was a weird one cuz he on one hand sided with conservatives on some issues and then the ndp on others ... one thing was he hated the liberals i think ...
i'm guessing a lot of the moderate canadians on here (not gonna name names) voted conservative ...
lukin2006 was a conservative guy but he has seen the light! ...
I would agree with that ...
It's just to bad elected officials don't put the needs of the population first ... and I'm really amazed that these politicians continue get in ... federally its either conservative or liberal and neither has worked for us very well, time for a change and a new direction.
I have certain rules I live by ... My First Rule ... I don't believe anything the government tells me ... George Carlin
"Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
You guys said it, BILL C-38 is a huge blow to democracy in Canada.
Parliament is voting next week on Bill C-38 proposed as a "budget bill", which attempts to introduce significant changes to Environmental Law without the scrutiny of parliamentary committees or public input. It introduces various important changes to Canadian law and legislative process. The proposed changes represent a back-door way of implementing major changes to the law in hopes the public does not notice. Moreover, it tears down most of the safeguards currently in place to protect the health of Canadians and the health of the environment, so that most any industrial corporate project can be pushed through without any review. I believe this bill infringes on our rights and freedoms as Canadians, interferes with the democratic process, and jeopardizes the health and safety of Canadians across the country.
If government wishes to change environmental law - or any other law or vital legislative process- they are required to put forth a bill and support consultation hearings across the country. Major changes to legislature have no place in a budget proposal. Quietly attempting to stick changes in the budget is unacceptable and appalling. What we as the public see here is the government body charged with upholding democratic process using a backdoor method to avoid public scrutiny, thereby avoiding specific study of the changes at individual parliamentary committees.
THERE IS ONLY ONE THING WE CAN DO: speak out, write letters, make phone calls, let them know we're watching and we're going to hold them accountable for once. These actions speak loudly in the political sphere, when nothing else works - this does.
Or take part in BlackOutSpeakOut - organizations are darkening their websites on June 4th in protest against efforts to silence our voices: http://blackoutspeakout.ca/index.php
We're all good people here, I feel the love on these boards -- let's use our common love to get together and make an impact. If enough speak out, we have to be heard.
(keep in mind when answering that MP Rathgeber is of Andre the Giant-esque stature )
i'm just thinking - there's no point in my emailing my mp cuz he's ndp and they are the ones doing the most to get this bill changed ... thinking emailing conservative mps might be better - but i'm not even sure where the closest one to me is ...
(keep in mind when answering that MP Rathgeber is of Andre the Giant-esque stature )
i'm just thinking - there's no point in my emailing my mp cuz he's ndp and they are the ones doing the most to get this bill changed ... thinking emailing conservative mps might be better - but i'm not even sure where the closest one to me is ...
Oh I've emailed the guy many times....either get ignored or a canned response....and now I'm on his stupid mailing list.
He has two personal websites - brentrathgeber.com - on which he states straight up that "This website is a Partisan website. If you are a constituent with questions or concerns about a Federal department please visit brentrathgeber.ca for my office contact information", before launching into a bunch of soundbytes about criminal justice and fiscal conservatism blah blah blah.....you go to the .ca site, the one that's supposed to be non-partisan, the headline is "See Brent’s first ever mention on ‘This Hour Has 22 Minutes’ on the CBC website here" ! wow....earthshattering revelation...I'm so happy for you Brent. You were on tv! :roll:
This is the most incompetent government in this country right now. The auto industry has been bailed out. The auto industry is making money again. Why does government need to subsidize any industry. No wonder the provincial and federal governments run debts they are always giving the money away.
I have certain rules I live by ... My First Rule ... I don't believe anything the government tells me ... George Carlin
"Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
Posted on Thu, May 10, 2012, 4:30 am by Canadian Press
A new poll suggests the New Democrats are widening their support across the country.
The Canadian Press Harris Decima survey indicates that the NDP have 34 per cent of popular support, compared to 30 per cent for the Conservatives.
With a margin of error of 2.2 percentage points, support for the two parties could be equally split.
Still, the poll indicates that the New Democrats have become competitive in traditional Tory areas.
Among rural Canadians, the poll suggests the New Democrats have 31 per cent support, compared to 35 per cent for the Tories.
The NDP appear to have the support of 36 per cent of urban and suburban men, a number that has risen steadily since February.
Meanwhile, the Conservatives are seeing their support in that demographic appear to hover around 29 per cent, down from close to 40 per cent four months ago.
As well, the New Democrats appear to have supplanted the Liberals as the natural party among women, said Allan Gregg, chairman of Harris Decima.
“Remember this is a party that a decade ago, half the electorate said they would “never” vote for,” he said.
“To broaden their base as we see in these data is quite remarkable.”
Overall, the Liberals continue to hold steady at 20 per cent support, the poll suggests.
Just over 2,000 Canadians were polled for the survey in the last week of April and first week of May.
The period marked ongoing controversy of the price tag for fighter jets as well as the introduction of the Conservatives’ controversial omnibus budget implementation bill.
But it also saw the anniversary of the 2011 federal election which returned the Conservatives with their majority government.
The election resulted in the NDP surge into Opposition status thanks to a record number of MPs being elected in Quebec.
In that province, the party’s fortunes appear to be sliding following a spike after the election of new leader Tom Mulcair.
Comments
well ... the cons only gained 20 some odd seats since the 08 election ... but definitely, ontario was where they gained their seats to have their majority ... although election results should be disputed ...
The NDP might be closer than ever to having a chance to form government. Only time will tell. They are adding more seats for the next election.
I wonder if these seats will be in areas where the cons have the best chance of winning those seats.
"Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
ya ... for sure ... it's just weird considering what popular opinion would have been just 2 years ago ...
i think the ndp can make significant inroads in ontario and bc ... it really depends on who the liberals choose as party leader ... right now the candidates being tossed around don't seem like they will be able to lift that party up especially when their stronghold province in ontario continues to wallow under mcguinty ... if the ndp can gain like 30 some odd seats ... they will win the next election ...
What doesn’t bode well for our future, is the way the WRP was hyped in this province. I’ve never seen such a blatant media agenda….the WRP came basically out of nowhere, with a TON of hype. Yes, they would have been in contention in a lot of electoral districts, but to read the papers and watch the msm news, you’d think they had the election in the bag.
Honestly, I think it is all a bit of carried-over fear from the federal election. Big oil saw the writing on the wall and put their weight behind a further-right party to prevent a shift to the left. I think the federal parties somewhat influence peoples’ opinions of the provincial parties…the Liberal showing in this provincial election proves that to a degree. They totally tanked. I’m guessing, but I think it’s safe to say that it wasn’t all disgruntled former Libs voting for the WRP. I think the disgruntled Libs are the people who voted the PC’s their majority, as a strategic vote. I also think there were a lot of people who don’t normally vote, who showed up to strategically vote against the WRP (turnout was up 40% over the last provincial election). It was disgruntled PC voters that voted WRP. Sooo….if the disgruntled Lib/centrist voters hadn’t felt the need to vote strategically due to the WRP hype in the media, what do you think would have happened? We likely would have had a strong NDP opposition, a mirror of the federal election….which is a f’n nightmare for big oil. The WRP hype allowed an extremist party to be voted in by the religious right fundamentalists down south, and prevented the NDP from gaining ground.
http://fullcomment.nationalpost.com/201 ... as-fallen/
Bill C-38 shows us how far Parliament has fallen
Andrew Coyne Apr 30, 2012 – 7:21 PM ET | Last Updated: Apr 30, 2012 8:32 PM ET
You know, this is the sort of thing people used to make quite a bit of a fuss over.
Bill C-38, introduced in the House last week, calls itself, innocuously, “An Act to implement certain provisions of the budget tabled in Parliament on March 29, 2012 and other measures.” The bill does implement certain budget provisions, it is true: for example, the controversial changes to Old Age Security. But “and other measures” rather understates matters — to understate the matter.
The bill runs to more than 420 pages. It amends some 60 different acts, repeals half a dozen, and adds three more, including a completely rewritten Canadian Environmental Assessment Act. It ranges far beyond the traditional budget concerns of taxing and spending, making changes in policy across a number of fields from immigration (among other changes, it erases at a stroke the entire backlog of applications under the skilled worker program), to telecommunications (opening the door, slightly, to foreign ownership), to land codes on native reservations.
The environmental chapters are the most extraordinary. Along with the new Act, they give cabinet broader power to override decisions of the National Energy Board, shorten the list of protected species, and abolish the Kyoto Protocol Implementation Act — among “other measures.” For much of this the first public notice was its inclusion in the bill.
So this is not remotely a budget bill, despite its name. It is what is known as an omnibus bill. If you want to know how far Parliament has fallen, how little real oversight it now exercises over government, this should give you a clue.
Omnibus bills are not unknown: indeed, every budget is a kind of omnibus bill, bundling a range of different measures under the general rubric of “supply,” the ancient prerogative of Parliament to approve or withhold funds to the Crown to carry out its program of government. The omnibus crime bill, likewise, collected a number of different pieces of the Conservatives’ law and order agenda under one heading.
But lately the practice has been to throw together all manner of bills involving wholly different responsibilities of government in one all-purpose “budget implementation” bill, and force MPs to vote up or down on the lot. While the 2012 budget implementation bill is hardly the first in this tradition, the scale and scope is on a level not previously seen, or tolerated.
Not only does this make a mockery of the confidence convention, shielding bills that would otherwise be defeatable within a money bill, which is not: It makes it impossible to know what Parliament really intended by any of it. We’ve no idea whether MPs supported or opposed any particular bill in the bunch, only that they voted for the legislation that contained them. There is no common thread that runs between them, no overarching principle; they represent not a single act of policy, but a sort of compulsory buffet.
To be sure, a government with a majority would likely have little difficulty passing them separately, so obediently do MPs now submit to the party whip. But there is something quite alarming about Parliament being obliged to rubber-stamp the government’s whole legislative agenda at one go.
Moreover, it utterly eviscerates the committee process, until now regarded as one of the last useful roles left to MPs. How can one committee, in this case Finance, properly examine all of these diverse measures, with all of the many areas of expertise they require, especially in the time allotted to them?
My point is not that any of the bill’s provisions are good or bad in themselves (that’s the kind of thing committee hearings and debate often help to clarify). Nor is there anything unlawful in any of this, so far as I’m aware. According to House of Commons Procedure and Practice, “it appears to be entirely proper, in procedural terms” for a bill to amend more than one act; Speakers have generally refused appeals to divide them.
But there’s a limit. What is lawful may nevertheless be illegitimate, especially where fundamental issues of Parliamentary government are in play. For, in combination with so many recent abuses, from prorogation to the F-35s, that is what is at stake here.
That Parliament has lost control of the public purse is now a commonplace. Governments routinely spend billions more than they were budgeted. Estimates are voted through without serious scrutiny. Funds that were approved for the construction of, say, border infrastructure end up being spent on, say, gazebos hundreds of miles away.
But the increasing use of these omnibills extends Parliament’s powerlessness in all directions: it has become, if you will, omnimpotent — a ceremonial body, little more. What is worse, it cannot even seem to rouse itself to its own defence.
Once upon a time such insults could be relied upon to produce unruly scenes in the House, obstruction of government business and whatnot. The packaging of several pieces of legislation into one omnibus energy bill in 1982 provoked the opposition to refuse to enter the House to vote. The division bells rang for nearly three weeks until the government agreed to split the bill. The insertion of a single change to environmental legislation in the 2005 budget bill, a note from the Green Party reminds us, so enraged the then leader of the Opposition, Stephen Harper, that he threatened to bring down the government.
But today’s Parliament is so accustomed to these indignities that it barely registers. It has lost not only the power to resist, it seems, but the will.
I'm only halfway thru this, but it's been a great read so far.
Fixing Elections Through Fraud
On the Need for a Royal Commission on Electoral Practices in Canada
by Anthony J. Hall
The declining credibility of elections in many countries is creating a crisis of legitimacy severing bonds of trust that once linked citizens to the institutions that govern us. Without credible proof that those governing on our behalf really have earned our supportive consent in free and fair elections, one of humanity’s greatest innovations is rendered null and void.
http://www.veteranstoday.com/2012/04/05 ... ugh-fraud/
on the issue of the WRP ... i think they will get their day in the sun ... their rise mirrors that of the conservative/alliance/reform party ...
on the issue of the environment ... it's pretty obvious where harper stands ... he basically has a disdain for the environment and everyone associated with it ...
on the issue of elections ... there is no accountability ...
And that's just an example...we got great technology but seem to refuse to really use it.
"Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
the problem is ... it's like any security feature and unscrupulous folks ... you put an alarm in your home ... thieves eventually figure it out ... you put protective measures on your currency ... counterfeiters figure it out ... although i agree that we should make the election as corruption free as possible - i just don't feel it would deter the folks that are prepared to bend the rules ... we implement all these changes and those fuckers would just figure out a way to by pass it ...
I agree with you there about people always finding a way to get around...seems to me the biggest problem in the last election was people going to the wrong voting station ... in the future we need to make it possible to vote anywhere in the riding.
I am unsure as to why the liberals and ndp are not suing the conservatives if the feel the election was won by fraud.
"Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
there is an elections canada investigation ... i think they are gonna wait for that to happen first ...
in the meantime if the election is found to be fraudulent look at all the damage the conservatives will do ... the investigation would only really be helpful if they could offer remedies like nullify the vote in the riding's that were found to be won by fraud and order by - elections, nullify those members votes in the house of commons ...if that means the conservatives don't have enough votes all the bills that were passed are declared dead ... if its determined the election win was a scam then the results should be overturned.
"Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
totally agree ... i get green party emails and they have touched on this issue ... i don't get ndp or liberal emails so i'm not sure if they are actively pursuing this ...
I don't understand why the provinces aren't interested in pursuing this? If its an illegimate government creating legislation that could effect provinces then they have a vested interest in seeing this resolved properly.
"Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
probably because this gov't has shown their vindictive side ... any province which pursues this will be punished ... it's the way they operate ...
....aaaaand in keeping with their pattern of force-feeding us massive omnibus bills with as little debate as possible:
http://www.winnipegfreepress.com/canada ... 14305.html
Conservatives pass motion to limit debate on massive budget implementation bill
By: The Canadian Press
OTTAWA - A federal budget bill that makes sweeping changes to several facets of Canadian life will be swiftly pushed through the Commons so it can be passed by the summer.
The Conservatives passed a motion Thursday that will limit second reading debate on Bill C-38 to seven days, setting off cries among critics that this is too little time to discuss the broad, 425-page bill.
Bill C-38, which the government calls the Jobs, Growth and Long-Term Prosperity Act, implements some of the provisions outlined in the recent federal budget, including changes to old age security.
But it also amends about 60 different laws, eliminates a half dozen others and rewrites the Canadian Environmental Assessment Act.
The Conservatives argue that far-ranging bills of its kind have been handled this way before and expressed surprise at the sudden cries of outrage from the Opposition.
"It's important that we get the bill passed before the end of June," Finance Minister Jim Flaherty said.
"It's all in the budget (and) the budget is a month old."
During debate on Thursday, Opposition MPs slammed the Conservatives for sticking to talking points and refusing to discuss the controversial contents of the bill.
"This isn't a four-pager," said NDP MP Malcolm Allen.
"This is 400 pages that impact not only the budget but a multitude of other agencies and regulations that will dramatically change in many areas."
A vote on the bill will be called May 14 and then it will head off to the House of Commons finance committee.
The Tory-dominated committee is expected to then strike a subcommittee to examine changes to the environmental assessment program contained in the bill.
Meanwhile, senators will pre-study the bill and have agreed to parcel out some portions of it to their own committees, including the provisions on immigration reforms, financial sector oversight and border measures.
Pre-studying means they will be able to formally debate and vote on the bill as soon as it is sent over from the Commons.
A second budget implementation bill is expected in the fall.
motherfuckers. How can anyone consider this a legitimate democratic practice?
It's looking very much like the liberals back in the 90's were right...he has a secret agenda...unfortunately a lot of damage can/will be caused by the next election.
"Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
Just another blow for democracy in Canada...its obvious he has ne interest in demicracy.
"Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
you think!?? ... fucker ... :evil: :evil:
where are the conservatives on this board!?? ... i'd really like to hear them justify this blatant BS ... somehow, i told you so just isn't gonna cut it ... :(
not sure ... reborn was a weird one cuz he on one hand sided with conservatives on some issues and then the ndp on others ... one thing was he hated the liberals i think ...
i'm guessing a lot of the moderate canadians on here (not gonna name names) voted conservative ...
lukin2006 was a conservative guy but he has seen the light! ...
I would agree with that ...
It's just to bad elected officials don't put the needs of the population first ... and I'm really amazed that these politicians continue get in ... federally its either conservative or liberal and neither has worked for us very well, time for a change and a new direction.
"Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
Parliament is voting next week on Bill C-38 proposed as a "budget bill", which attempts to introduce significant changes to Environmental Law without the scrutiny of parliamentary committees or public input. It introduces various important changes to Canadian law and legislative process. The proposed changes represent a back-door way of implementing major changes to the law in hopes the public does not notice. Moreover, it tears down most of the safeguards currently in place to protect the health of Canadians and the health of the environment, so that most any industrial corporate project can be pushed through without any review. I believe this bill infringes on our rights and freedoms as Canadians, interferes with the democratic process, and jeopardizes the health and safety of Canadians across the country.
If government wishes to change environmental law - or any other law or vital legislative process- they are required to put forth a bill and support consultation hearings across the country. Major changes to legislature have no place in a budget proposal. Quietly attempting to stick changes in the budget is unacceptable and appalling. What we as the public see here is the government body charged with upholding democratic process using a backdoor method to avoid public scrutiny, thereby avoiding specific study of the changes at individual parliamentary committees.
THERE IS ONLY ONE THING WE CAN DO: speak out, write letters, make phone calls, let them know we're watching and we're going to hold them accountable for once. These actions speak loudly in the political sphere, when nothing else works - this does.
Or take part in BlackOutSpeakOut - organizations are darkening their websites on June 4th in protest against efforts to silence our voices: http://blackoutspeakout.ca/index.php
For more information see: http://www.ecojustice.ca/blog/federal-g ... -canadians
We're all good people here, I feel the love on these boards -- let's use our common love to get together and make an impact. If enough speak out, we have to be heard.
frig ... i'm in jack's old riding so it's all pinkos here ...
what would you have me do?
(keep in mind when answering that MP Rathgeber is of Andre the Giant-esque stature
i'm just thinking - there's no point in my emailing my mp cuz he's ndp and they are the ones doing the most to get this bill changed ... thinking emailing conservative mps might be better - but i'm not even sure where the closest one to me is ...
He has two personal websites - brentrathgeber.com - on which he states straight up that "This website is a Partisan website. If you are a constituent with questions or concerns about a Federal department please visit brentrathgeber.ca for my office contact information", before launching into a bunch of soundbytes about criminal justice and fiscal conservatism blah blah blah.....you go to the .ca site, the one that's supposed to be non-partisan, the headline is "See Brent’s first ever mention on ‘This Hour Has 22 Minutes’ on the CBC website here" ! wow....earthshattering revelation...I'm so happy for you Brent. You were on tv! :roll:
Rising demand an opportunity, premier says
Read more: http://www.windsorstar.com/news/Ontario ... z1uNqaAwIm
This is the most incompetent government in this country right now. The auto industry has been bailed out. The auto industry is making money again. Why does government need to subsidize any industry. No wonder the provincial and federal governments run debts they are always giving the money away.
"Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
Poll suggests widening support for NDP
Posted on Thu, May 10, 2012, 4:30 am by Canadian Press
A new poll suggests the New Democrats are widening their support across the country.
The Canadian Press Harris Decima survey indicates that the NDP have 34 per cent of popular support, compared to 30 per cent for the Conservatives.
With a margin of error of 2.2 percentage points, support for the two parties could be equally split.
Still, the poll indicates that the New Democrats have become competitive in traditional Tory areas.
Among rural Canadians, the poll suggests the New Democrats have 31 per cent support, compared to 35 per cent for the Tories.
The NDP appear to have the support of 36 per cent of urban and suburban men, a number that has risen steadily since February.
Meanwhile, the Conservatives are seeing their support in that demographic appear to hover around 29 per cent, down from close to 40 per cent four months ago.
As well, the New Democrats appear to have supplanted the Liberals as the natural party among women, said Allan Gregg, chairman of Harris Decima.
“Remember this is a party that a decade ago, half the electorate said they would “never” vote for,” he said.
“To broaden their base as we see in these data is quite remarkable.”
Overall, the Liberals continue to hold steady at 20 per cent support, the poll suggests.
Just over 2,000 Canadians were polled for the survey in the last week of April and first week of May.
The period marked ongoing controversy of the price tag for fighter jets as well as the introduction of the Conservatives’ controversial omnibus budget implementation bill.
But it also saw the anniversary of the 2011 federal election which returned the Conservatives with their majority government.
The election resulted in the NDP surge into Opposition status thanks to a record number of MPs being elected in Quebec.
In that province, the party’s fortunes appear to be sliding following a spike after the election of new leader Tom Mulcair.