some respect for democracy, accountability and transparency seems too much to ask for ... i think people are prepared to give them a shot for no other reason than they are tired of the blatant bs the conservatives have pulled ...
All this talk about polls is really just plain silly. They still have 3 years left in their mandate. If we were to believe polls early in a mandate Mike Harris would never got re-elected, Dalton McGuinty would never have won 3 elections...Harper is a veteran politician he like all politicians know to get the dirty work done early in your mandate and hand out the goodies in an election year.
I have certain rules I live by ... My First Rule ... I don't believe anything the government tells me ... George Carlin
"Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
All this talk about polls is really just plain silly. They still have 3 years left in their mandate. If we were to believe polls early in a mandate Mike Harris would never got re-elected, Dalton McGuinty would never have won 3 elections...Harper is a veteran politician he like all politicians know to get the dirty work done early in your mandate and hand out the goodies in an election year.
You are right, but these polls are interesting to me just for the simple fact that people are considering supporting the NDP. People (like me) who said they would never ever support the NDP....it shows that either the brand has changed, or more importantly peoples attitudes towards the brand has changed. Everyone likes a winner, and the NDP has shown that they can win.
I know 3 years is a very long time, but even the seed that an NDP government is a possibility, is huge.
All this talk about polls is really just plain silly. They still have 3 years left in their mandate. If we were to believe polls early in a mandate Mike Harris would never got re-elected, Dalton McGuinty would never have won 3 elections...Harper is a veteran politician he like all politicians know to get the dirty work done early in your mandate and hand out the goodies in an election year.
You are right, but these polls are interesting to me just for the simple fact that people are considering supporting the NDP. People (like me) who said they would never ever support the NDP....it shows that either the brand has changed, or more importantly peoples attitudes towards the brand has changed. Everyone likes a winner, and the NDP has shown that they can win.
I know 3 years is a very long time, but even the seed that an NDP government is a possibility, is huge.
I certainly think an NDP government is possible. But for me to step back into a voting booth and support any party they will have to demonstrate during the campaign that the lies just to get elected is going to stop. That's my biggest problem with ALL politicians...say what the public wants to hear, then when elected do whatever they want. I am a supporter of referendums...it's no longer good enough to elect people to make decisions for 4 years that effects us all for decades later.
Do you think if Harper said he was cutting OAS during the campaign he still would have got elected? or he was reducing health care funding after 2017/18? or was reducing environmental standards? and the list just goes on.
Personally the government should be elected to run the day to day affairs of the country, but all major issues like free trade agreements, OAS cut, health care spending should be decided by referendum.
I have certain rules I live by ... My First Rule ... I don't believe anything the government tells me ... George Carlin
"Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
Interesting....the government doesn't pay into it yet they can define the rules. I've often said that an independent panel representing employers and employee groups should be set up and run the program.
This is probably another way for the government to get at the money that don't belong to them.
I have certain rules I live by ... My First Rule ... I don't believe anything the government tells me ... George Carlin
"Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
i like referendums ... unfortunately tho ... people are stupid ... :(
I agree people are stupid...but even stupid people wouldn't vote to hurt themselves by raising OAS (or I Least hope not).
Politician have lying down to a science and that's the problem.
I saw this quote on a page I got some info from for the 'great bear' thread....THIS is why referendums are a bit of a scary proposition (tho I still think we should have a LOT more of them...I'd rather take my chances trying to research topics myself and try to help educate people who are uninteresed, than just leave it to bought-and-paid-for MP's/MLA's)....but ya, this is the problem:
"Democracy is utterly dependent upon an electorate that is accurately informed. In promoting climate change denial (and often denying their responsibility for doing so) industry has done more than endanger the environment. It has undermined democracy.
There is a vast difference between putting forth a point of view, honestly held, and intentionally sowing the seeds of confusion. Free speech does not include the right to deceive. Deception is not a point of view. And the right to disagree does not include a right to intentionally subvert the public awareness."
i like referendums ... unfortunately tho ... people are stupid ... :(
I agree people are stupid...but even stupid people wouldn't vote to hurt themselves by raising OAS (or I Least hope not).
Politician have lying down to a science and that's the problem.
I saw this quote on a page I got some info from for the 'great bear' thread....THIS is why referendums are a bit of a scary proposition (tho I still think we should have a LOT more of them...I'd rather take my chances trying to research topics myself and try to help educate people who are uninteresed, than just leave it to bought-and-paid-for MP's/MLA's)....but ya, this is the problem:
"Democracy is utterly dependent upon an electorate that is accurately informed. In promoting climate change denial (and often denying their responsibility for doing so) industry has done more than endanger the environment. It has undermined democracy.
There is a vast difference between putting forth a point of view, honestly held, and intentionally sowing the seeds of confusion. Free speech does not include the right to deceive. Deception is not a point of view. And the right to disagree does not include a right to intentionally subvert the public awareness."
We need to make the media more accountable if we expect the public to do the right thing in a referendum.
I agree about the media...I would like to think we stand a better chance in a referendum than we do with current government just mocking democracy...but for referendums to work people will need to become informed...and that could be the problem.
I have certain rules I live by ... My First Rule ... I don't believe anything the government tells me ... George Carlin
"Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
if i were tom mulclair ... i would pull a harper and keep a muzzle on ... just focus on the conservatives ... it's obvious our dollar has gone up due at least partly to the strength of the oil and gas sector but there's no need to point that out now ... :fp:
if i were tom mulclair ... i would pull a harper and keep a muzzle on ... just focus on the conservatives ... it's obvious our dollar has gone up due at least partly to the strength of the oil and gas sector but there's no need to point that out now ... :fp:
Yes i agree...especially knowing how Harper will use those statements to win votes in the Manitoba, Saskatchewan, Alberta and BC...also does no good dividing the country.
I have certain rules I live by ... My First Rule ... I don't believe anything the government tells me ... George Carlin
"Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
if i were tom mulclair ... i would pull a harper and keep a muzzle on ... just focus on the conservatives ... it's obvious our dollar has gone up due at least partly to the strength of the oil and gas sector but there's no need to point that out now ... :fp:
Yes i agree...especially knowing how Harper will use those statements to win votes in the Manitoba, Saskatchewan, Alberta and BC...also does no good dividing the country.
yup....pretty stupid misstep, unless his biggest aspiration is to someday win a slim minority govt. If he ever wants a majority, he needs to win some seats in the west too....this won't help. Dogged pursuit of Con corruption will.
yup....pretty stupid misstep, unless his biggest aspiration is to someday win a slim minority govt. If he ever wants a majority, he needs to win some seats in the west too....this won't help. Dogged pursuit of Con corruption will.
ya ... their sole goal in the next 3 years is this ... hold harper accountable for EVERYTHING ... i would highlight some of the key people in their caucus ... show that mulclair is a reasonable person ... they could easily find themselves in a position to win the next election ...
if i were tom mulclair ... i would pull a harper and keep a muzzle on ... just focus on the conservatives ... it's obvious our dollar has gone up due at least partly to the strength of the oil and gas sector but there's no need to point that out now ... :fp:
Yes i agree...especially knowing how Harper will use those statements to win votes in the Manitoba, Saskatchewan, Alberta and BC...also does no good dividing the country.
yup....pretty stupid misstep, unless his biggest aspiration is to someday win a slim minority govt. If he ever wants a majority, he needs to win some seats in the west too....this won't help. Dogged pursuit of Con corruption will.
The west already has trust issue with us in Central Canada...I think it would be better to focus on the corruption going on.
I have certain rules I live by ... My First Rule ... I don't believe anything the government tells me ... George Carlin
"Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
yup....pretty stupid misstep, unless his biggest aspiration is to someday win a slim minority govt. If he ever wants a majority, he needs to win some seats in the west too....this won't help. Dogged pursuit of Con corruption will.
ya ... their sole goal in the next 3 years is this ... hold harper accountable for EVERYTHING ... i would highlight some of the key people in their caucus ... show that mulclair is a reasonable person ... they could easily find themselves in a position to win the next election ...
exactly. They don't need to do much other than shine a light on what Harper is doing. They're corrupt enough to bring themselves down.
Uncle Sam could soon be coming after you on Canadian soil.
According to an article in Embassy Magazine, the Harper government is moving forward on several initiatives that could give U.S. FBI and DEA agents the ability to pursue suspects across the land border and into Canada.
But, according to a RCMP officer, they're doing it in "baby steps."
"We recognized early that this approach would raise concerns about sovereignty, of privacy, and civil liberties of Canadians," RCMP Chief Superintendent Joe Oliver, the Mounties' director general for border integrity, told the Senate Committee on National Security and Defence on May 14.
Baby step 1, according to Embassy Magazine, has already happened in the form of cross border pilot projects allowing Canadian and American agents in each others waters.
Step 2isthe 'Shiprider' program which will make it permanently legal for U.S. agents to be certified as police in Canadian waters . This is on track to be passed into law by the Harper government's omnibus budget bill, C-38.
And step 3, is to roll out cross-border policing over land.
Embassy also notes that the government is not ruling out U.S. aerial surveillance over Canadian territory.
Critics have bemoaned the loss of Canada's jurisdiction and sovereignty over the new policing measures but Canadian officials insist it's needed.
"We've had instances where we've engaged in the attempts to interdict vessels in our shared waterways, and the vessel has fled into the other territory and has escaped apprehension."
I wish I could view that Embassy article (asks for a subscription)....I want to know if they mean 'pursue suspects' - as in: chase an American onto Canadian soil....or if they mean they want jurisdiction to track, arrest, and prosecute Canadians. Big difference. Both are absolute BS....but if it's the latter....whats the point of even having our own police force...or military...or government?
Brutal. Bill C-38 is a complete travesty. I hadn't heard a word about this....I wonder what other goodies are hidden within....
I wish I could view that Embassy article (asks for a subscription)....I want to know if they mean 'pursue suspects' - as in: chase an American onto Canadian soil....or if they mean they want jurisdiction to track, arrest, and prosecute Canadians. Big difference. Both are absolute BS....but if it's the latter....whats the point of even having our own police force...or military...or government?
Brutal. Bill C-38 is a complete travesty. I hadn't heard a word about this....I wonder what other goodies are hidden within....
Yea I'm not sure of the details, I just saw the article on Yahoo News, figured someone here may have more info.
I think in the end, its all about "baby steps" (like the article says), 'this' will no doubt lead to 'that' etc. They see how much they can get away with then add more.
Anyway Lets just turn Canada into an official US State and be done with it.
I wish I could view that Embassy article (asks for a subscription)....I want to know if they mean 'pursue suspects' - as in: chase an American onto Canadian soil....or if they mean they want jurisdiction to track, arrest, and prosecute Canadians. Big difference. Both are absolute BS....but if it's the latter....whats the point of even having our own police force...or military...or government?
Brutal. Bill C-38 is a complete travesty. I hadn't heard a word about this....I wonder what other goodies are hidden within....
Yea I'm not sure of the details, I just saw the article on Yahoo News, figured someone here may have more info.
I think in the end, its all about "baby steps" (like the article says), 'this' will no doubt lead to 'that' etc. They see how much they can get away with then add more.
Anyway Lets just turn Canada into an official US State and be done with it.
I'm sure we'll keep learning more about the bill in the next little while....I'd try to read it myself, but...I have a life :roll:....seriously, these omnibus-type bills need to be banned. There is no way this much shit needs to be jammed into one piece of legislation. So crooked.
I had to ask what else is hidden in it....more baby steps:
Bill C-38: Critics Slam Harper Conservatives' Budget For Pro-Business Measures
CP | By Julian Beltrame, The Canadian Press Posted: 05/23/2012 5:43 pm Updated: 05/23/2012 7:23 pm
Is the Harper government fundamentally anti-labour?
...
One of the measures is so sneaky, says NDP MP Pat Martin, nobody seemed to notice the line buried deep in the 452-page Bill C-38 that simply states, "The Fair Wages and Hours of Labour Act is repealed," giving no explanation.
With those 10 words, Ottawa intends to wipe out a 1985 law compelling contractors bidding on federal contracts to pay "fair wages" and overtime.
"I would have missed it and I'm from that industry. It was number 68 of 70 bills that they changed," said Martin, a former journeyman carpenter and construction worker.
Martin notes that unlike most measures in the budget bill, there was no prior discussion of the measure or even a signal such a change was contemplated.
"It's a solution without a problem. The only conclusion I can come up with is that it's a war on labour and the left. It's what the Americans did with the right-to-work states and the end result is $8 or $9 an hour is now the average wage in places like North Carolina."
...
the approach is typical of how the Harper government likes to operate — incremental changes that collectively carry a big wallop.
..."They often tackle things not by announcing a bold new national strategy but by identifying a priority and then they pick away at it,"
okay ... it's not really canadian politics - but i figure this thread is read most by canucks ...
ryder hesjedal from victoria, bc is on the verge of HISTORY ... if he can somehow survive tomorrow penultimate stage - he has a very good chance of being the first canadian to win a grand tour cycling event ... the giro d'italia is the second biggest bike race in the world and this would be akin to a canadian tennis player winning the french open ...
it's on sportsnet in the morning ... cheer him on this weekend!
okay ... it's not really canadian politics - but i figure this thread is read most by canucks ...
ryder hesjedal from victoria, bc is on the verge of HISTORY ... if he can somehow survive tomorrow penultimate stage - he has a very good chance of being the first canadian to win a grand tour cycling event ... the giro d'italia is the second biggest bike race in the world and this would be akin to a canadian tennis player winning the french open ...
it's on sportsnet in the morning ... cheer him on this weekend!
I will and good luck to him....will he be in the tour de france?
I have certain rules I live by ... My First Rule ... I don't believe anything the government tells me ... George Carlin
"Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
I will and good luck to him....will he be in the tour de france?
the team will leave it up to him ... based on interviews - i expect him to be there because he can keep his form over the course of a long season ... plus the longer grand tours suit him as he gets better with each subsequent day ... it'll depend on what happens the next 2 days and what his goals are for the remainder of the season ...
I will and good luck to him....will he be in the tour de france?
the team will leave it up to him ... based on interviews - i expect him to be there because he can keep his form over the course of a long season ... plus the longer grand tours suit him as he gets better with each subsequent day ... it'll depend on what happens the next 2 days and what his goals are for the remainder of the season ...
cool...it's nice to see Canadians excel at non winter sports more often.
I have certain rules I live by ... My First Rule ... I don't believe anything the government tells me ... George Carlin
"Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
Comments
some respect for democracy, accountability and transparency seems too much to ask for ... i think people are prepared to give them a shot for no other reason than they are tired of the blatant bs the conservatives have pulled ...
"Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
You are right, but these polls are interesting to me just for the simple fact that people are considering supporting the NDP. People (like me) who said they would never ever support the NDP....it shows that either the brand has changed, or more importantly peoples attitudes towards the brand has changed. Everyone likes a winner, and the NDP has shown that they can win.
I know 3 years is a very long time, but even the seed that an NDP government is a possibility, is huge.
I certainly think an NDP government is possible. But for me to step back into a voting booth and support any party they will have to demonstrate during the campaign that the lies just to get elected is going to stop. That's my biggest problem with ALL politicians...say what the public wants to hear, then when elected do whatever they want. I am a supporter of referendums...it's no longer good enough to elect people to make decisions for 4 years that effects us all for decades later.
Do you think if Harper said he was cutting OAS during the campaign he still would have got elected? or he was reducing health care funding after 2017/18? or was reducing environmental standards? and the list just goes on.
Personally the government should be elected to run the day to day affairs of the country, but all major issues like free trade agreements, OAS cut, health care spending should be decided by referendum.
"Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
I agree people are stupid...but even stupid people wouldn't vote to hurt themselves by raising OAS (or I Least hope not).
Politician have lying down to a science and that's the problem.
"Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/pol ... le2434030/
Are these guys inventing problems?
"Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/story/201 ... rance.html
Interesting....the government doesn't pay into it yet they can define the rules. I've often said that an independent panel representing employers and employee groups should be set up and run the program.
This is probably another way for the government to get at the money that don't belong to them.
"Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
"Hear me, my chiefs!
I am tired; my heart is
sick and sad. From where
the sun stands I will fight
no more forever."
Chief Joseph - Nez Perce
I saw this quote on a page I got some info from for the 'great bear' thread....THIS is why referendums are a bit of a scary proposition (tho I still think we should have a LOT more of them...I'd rather take my chances trying to research topics myself and try to help educate people who are uninteresed, than just leave it to bought-and-paid-for MP's/MLA's)....but ya, this is the problem:
"Democracy is utterly dependent upon an electorate that is accurately informed. In promoting climate change denial (and often denying their responsibility for doing so) industry has done more than endanger the environment. It has undermined democracy.
There is a vast difference between putting forth a point of view, honestly held, and intentionally sowing the seeds of confusion. Free speech does not include the right to deceive. Deception is not a point of view. And the right to disagree does not include a right to intentionally subvert the public awareness."
...more:
http://www.desmogblog.com/about-climate-cover
We need to make the media more accountable if we expect the public to do the right thing in a referendum.
I agree about the media...I would like to think we stand a better chance in a referendum than we do with current government just mocking democracy...but for referendums to work people will need to become informed...and that could be the problem.
"Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
"Hear me, my chiefs!
I am tired; my heart is
sick and sad. From where
the sun stands I will fight
no more forever."
Chief Joseph - Nez Perce
Yes i agree...especially knowing how Harper will use those statements to win votes in the Manitoba, Saskatchewan, Alberta and BC...also does no good dividing the country.
"Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
ya ... their sole goal in the next 3 years is this ... hold harper accountable for EVERYTHING ... i would highlight some of the key people in their caucus ... show that mulclair is a reasonable person ... they could easily find themselves in a position to win the next election ...
The west already has trust issue with us in Central Canada...I think it would be better to focus on the corruption going on.
"Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
exactly!
According to an article in Embassy Magazine, the Harper government is moving forward on several initiatives that could give U.S. FBI and DEA agents the ability to pursue suspects across the land border and into Canada.
But, according to a RCMP officer, they're doing it in "baby steps."
"We recognized early that this approach would raise concerns about sovereignty, of privacy, and civil liberties of Canadians," RCMP Chief Superintendent Joe Oliver, the Mounties' director general for border integrity, told the Senate Committee on National Security and Defence on May 14.
Baby step 1, according to Embassy Magazine, has already happened in the form of cross border pilot projects allowing Canadian and American agents in each others waters.
Step 2 is the 'Shiprider' program which will make it permanently legal for U.S. agents to be certified as police in Canadian waters . This is on track to be passed into law by the Harper government's omnibus budget bill, C-38.
And step 3, is to roll out cross-border policing over land.
Embassy also notes that the government is not ruling out U.S. aerial surveillance over Canadian territory.
Critics have bemoaned the loss of Canada's jurisdiction and sovereignty over the new policing measures but Canadian officials insist it's needed.
"We've had instances where we've engaged in the attempts to interdict vessels in our shared waterways, and the vessel has fled into the other territory and has escaped apprehension."
http://ca.news.yahoo.com/blogs/canada-politics/rcmp-ease-canadians-idea-u-agents-canada-201905380.html
Brutal. Bill C-38 is a complete travesty. I hadn't heard a word about this....I wonder what other goodies are hidden within....
Yea I'm not sure of the details, I just saw the article on Yahoo News, figured someone here may have more info.
I think in the end, its all about "baby steps" (like the article says), 'this' will no doubt lead to 'that' etc. They see how much they can get away with then add more.
Anyway Lets just turn Canada into an official US State and be done with it.
I had to ask what else is hidden in it....more baby steps:
http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2012/05/23 ... 40825.html
Bill C-38: Critics Slam Harper Conservatives' Budget For Pro-Business Measures
CP | By Julian Beltrame, The Canadian Press Posted: 05/23/2012 5:43 pm Updated: 05/23/2012 7:23 pm
Is the Harper government fundamentally anti-labour?
...
One of the measures is so sneaky, says NDP MP Pat Martin, nobody seemed to notice the line buried deep in the 452-page Bill C-38 that simply states, "The Fair Wages and Hours of Labour Act is repealed," giving no explanation.
With those 10 words, Ottawa intends to wipe out a 1985 law compelling contractors bidding on federal contracts to pay "fair wages" and overtime.
"I would have missed it and I'm from that industry. It was number 68 of 70 bills that they changed," said Martin, a former journeyman carpenter and construction worker.
Martin notes that unlike most measures in the budget bill, there was no prior discussion of the measure or even a signal such a change was contemplated.
"It's a solution without a problem. The only conclusion I can come up with is that it's a war on labour and the left. It's what the Americans did with the right-to-work states and the end result is $8 or $9 an hour is now the average wage in places like North Carolina."
...
the approach is typical of how the Harper government likes to operate — incremental changes that collectively carry a big wallop.
..."They often tackle things not by announcing a bold new national strategy but by identifying a priority and then they pick away at it,"
ryder hesjedal from victoria, bc is on the verge of HISTORY ... if he can somehow survive tomorrow penultimate stage - he has a very good chance of being the first canadian to win a grand tour cycling event ... the giro d'italia is the second biggest bike race in the world and this would be akin to a canadian tennis player winning the french open ...
it's on sportsnet in the morning ... cheer him on this weekend!
I will and good luck to him....will he be in the tour de france?
"Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
the team will leave it up to him ... based on interviews - i expect him to be there because he can keep his form over the course of a long season ... plus the longer grand tours suit him as he gets better with each subsequent day ... it'll depend on what happens the next 2 days and what his goals are for the remainder of the season ...
cool...it's nice to see Canadians excel at non winter sports more often.
"Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
Anonymous helps push Quebec protests online
http://www.canada.com/technology/Anonymous+helps+push+Quebec+protests+online/6668139/story.html
http://tsn.ca/cycling/story/?id=396986
A big congratulations!!!! Well done.
"Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
he's locked up the lou marsh award ...