I've used the phrase in the past myself....but was called out on it once, and came to realize it is a cop out. it really IS a fallacy. Social and economic issues are 110% intertwined. define it for me?
Don't waste my tax dollars and stay out of my bedroom. It is hardly rocket science.
How is something 110% intertwined? Anyways, wasting a lot of money on social programs is of course why it is connected. I am for social programs (that work). Government accountability to where the money is going would be good. I don't want people living in the street that don't want to, but don't want to pay for deadbeats who have no desire to better themselves. In fact, I wish more money would go to health care programs because most of the homeless are mentally ill and medicate themselves with booze and drugs.
Don't waste my tax dollars and stay out of my bedroom. It is hardly rocket science.
You think fiscal liberals support unaccountable, wasteful spending? Staying out of the bedroom, and many other 'social liberal' positions (anti-war on drugs etc) are rights issues that require nothing from the government to NOT enforce. So are you drawing the line for social liberalism at 'requires my money'? Doesn't really sound like it below.
How is something 110% intertwined? Anyways, wasting a lot of money on social programs is of course why it is connected. I am for social programs (that work). Government accountability to where the money is going would be good. I don't want people living in the street that don't want to, but don't want to pay for deadbeats who have no desire to better themselves. In fact, I wish more money would go to health care programs because most of the homeless are mentally ill and medicate themselves with booze and drugs.
The majority of 'social liberal' issues that require government involvement are tied to poverty, which is an economic issue. that's how they're intertwined. Are you not still an economic liberal if you support more tax money going to mental health and medical care? (you'll need a lot more of those dollars if you're drawing the line at healthcare and not at food/shelter for those mentally ill 'deadbeats')
My point is, the conservative (and internationally, neo-liberal) approach of deregulation, free trade, opposing unions and minimum wages, of opposing social safety net programs etc etc is 110% ( ) counterproductive to any social liberal cause that requires government involvement. Also, government accountability isn't a ideologically partisan issue.
The "deadbeats" are not the mentally ill and I never meant for it to come across that way. I stopped reading your post at that point. It all becomes noise to me at this point. It is a pointless argument on "what it is called".
I believe what I believe. We can debate that, but I am not going to debate in labels, etc. it's just not mentally stimulating. Something off Twatter or Facialbook
You called yourself that label previously, then questioned why I thought the label was a fallacy/cop out, so I explained. You posted in sound bytes and generalization about accountability and waste, poverty and disenfranchisement...so I replied in kind. But no worries, we can drop it if I'm not stimulating you enough
Re: the 'deadbeats'...would you agree that pretty much anyone with no drive to be self sufficient is likely suffering from some sort of mental disorder?
I agree that more money should go to healthcare...and I think too much blame is pointed at spending on social programs, and not enough toward corporate welfare, and military/'security' spending. i mean...you've complained about the banks before....when talking waste and accountability, and the things that are dragging us down, that's an example of who we should be talking about. Not deadbeats. Small potatoes by comparison.
Small government is where it is at. Socialism for the rich is wrong too. Help for those who NEED IT, not for the lazy. I don't believe everyone who lacks drive to succeed is mentally ill. There are people who use the social safety net to their advantage. I disagree with corporate welfare, because it is socialism for the rich. I wish socialism could really work, I do. But when I see how much of my wages go to federal and provincial taxes, (not to mention sales tax, property tax) I have to ask when does it end? How much more can I give until it starts to effect me and my family? I wish we had a tax system completely set up on a user fees/tax system. Similar to VAT in Europe. Income tax is a scam... I get taxed for WORKING? Anyway... Overall I will stand behind what I have said in the past, as a proud Canadian. We have the best political ideology in the world, the perfect blend of socialism and capitalism. What worries me is that the extreme left just continually thinks the rich or corporations should pay more and more taxes. Combined, my wife and I make close to a half million a year, and if you don't think we pay a LOT of taxes, you are delusional. I wish I new they we were being used properly.
i haven't said anything about anyone paying more taxes. I did mention that we should re-prioritize spending. That said, if not taxes, how do we close the gap of income inequality? Or do you not think that's a problem? anyway....this discussion gets really broad and ideological.
I bumped this to see if any of you have taken the quiz at https://canada.isidewith.com/political-quiz I did, and was really surprised to see my results come back with the Liberal party as my closest match at 91%...then the Greens at 90%....NDP at 88%, and Communist at 75%.....Cons at 10% (shocker)...I think if I put more thought and research into my answers, that would even go down - the only agreement I had with their platform was on election reform, and I am admittedly waaaay underinformed on that topic. Pretty sure that if I agreed with the Cons on it, I need to do more reading I had put very little thought into some of the questions prior to this quiz; haven't read into my options enough to have made informed decisions. I am going to do some reading and re-take the quiz. What a great site tho! Tons and tons of info, and an ability to check popular opinion based on nation, province, or city, for each question....compare platforms, discuss stances. great stuff. Not to patronize, but I think everyone should spend a lot of time on this site before the election!
So Harper came out saying he wanted to increase spending on the drug war, and actually had the nerve to say that the majority of Canadians don't want MJ laws changed. The guy just straight up lies. The MJ question on the above site (isidewith) has responses at 71% pro-legalization....based on 400k votes as of last night. That's not a small sample...albeit, being a social media thing - it is def weighted to a younger demo...and you can take the test multiple times, so it's not exactly scientific....but the globe, national post and others have all done polls that show canadians favour legalization. Harper's pandering to his base is folly, hope it bites him in the end....god I hope the youth get out and vote this time around - here and in the states.
i haven't said anything about anyone paying more taxes. I did mention that we should re-prioritize spending. That said, if not taxes, how do we close the gap of income inequality? Or do you not think that's a problem? anyway....this discussion gets really broad and ideological.
I bumped this to see if any of you have taken the quiz at https://canada.isidewith.com/political-quiz I did, and was really surprised to see my results come back with the Liberal party as my closest match at 91%...then the Greens at 90%....NDP at 88%, and Communist at 75%.....Cons at 10% (shocker)...I think if I put more thought and research into my answers, that would even go down - the only agreement I had with their platform was on election reform, and I am admittedly waaaay underinformed on that topic. Pretty sure that if I agreed with the Cons on it, I need to do more reading I had put very little thought into some of the questions prior to this quiz; haven't read into my options enough to have made informed decisions. I am going to do some reading and re-take the quiz. What a great site tho! Tons and tons of info, and an ability to check popular opinion based on nation, province, or city, for each question....compare platforms, discuss stances. great stuff. Not to patronize, but I think everyone should spend a lot of time on this site before the election!
I KNEW you would be the guy to find that as soon as I saw it
I saw the guy on the morning news yesterday. Obviously his ad is working like gangbusters, because there is no way the media would be interviewing him and asking him about his platform otherwise.
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
Took that quiz. There were some interesting questions.
Libertarian 78% Conservative 67% Liberal 67% NDP 67% BQ 54% Communist 54% Green 52%
I'm not sure this helped me at all :lol I have always thought of myself as a Libertarian, so now I will just say that as opposed to a "social liberal, fiscal conservative"
Or is this another one of my crystal ball predictions of a Conservative majority again?
I certainly approve of that, obviously. I would hope that whatever party wins would reintroduce that. I am not living in a fantasy world. I fucking HATE the Harper government, but I have no reason to think that they won't win a majority again, or at least a strong minority. As long as the left is split between two major parties, the Conservatives will win... barring something even worse than all the diabolical things they have already done, which is pretty fucking hard to imagine. Then again... it's not like it's impossible for another party to win a minority government. But honestly, I'm not even sure I would prefer that. A minority government is generally even less effective than a majority one.... Wait, no. I take that back. I would prefer anything over Harper being our PM.
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
Or is this another one of my crystal ball predictions of a Conservative majority again?
I certainly approve of that, obviously. I would hope that whatever party wins would reintroduce that. I am not living in a fantasy world. I fucking HATE the Harper government, but I have no reason to think that they won't win a majority again, or at least a strong minority. I would prefer anything over Harper being our PM.
Curious..... What has Harper done to your personal quality of life that has made you have such ventriloque HATE at such a young age?
Nah...most Canadians are with you, and the polls support that. They don't support a con majority tho...
1thought....still a label man! I would rather tell you who I'm voting for (undecided as of now), than define my political beliefs in a word or two You're only 10% away from being NDP (NDP was third for me, behind the libs and greens).
There are positives to every ideology; nearly all have the potential for utopia if implemented purely...libertarianism included. greed always seems to win out in the end...and greed is esp scary in a system with very few checks and balances....justmho
Or is this another one of my crystal ball predictions of a Conservative majority again?
I certainly approve of that, obviously. I would hope that whatever party wins would reintroduce that. I am not living in a fantasy world. I fucking HATE the Harper government, but I have no reason to think that they won't win a majority again, or at least a strong minority. I would prefer anything over Harper being our PM.
Curious..... What has Harper done to your personal quality of life that has made you have such ventriloque HATE at such a young age?
Nah...most Canadians are with you, and the polls support that. They don't support a con majority tho...
1thought....still a label man! I would rather tell you who I'm voting for (undecided as of now), than define my political beliefs in a word or two Answering some of those questions with only a You're only 10% away from being NDP (NDP was third for me, behind the libs and greens).
There are positives to every ideology; nearly all have the potential for utopia if implemented purely...libertarianism included. greed always seems to win out in the end...and greed is esp scary in a system with very few checks and balances....justmho
There is plenty of checks and balances. Every party speaks as to what they will offer if elected. We vote. Not hard.
Nah...most Canadians are with you, and the polls support that. They don't support a con majority tho...
1thought....still a label man! I would rather tell you who I'm voting for (undecided as of now), than define my political beliefs in a word or two Answering some of those questions with only a You're only 10% away from being NDP (NDP was third for me, behind the libs and greens).
There are positives to every ideology; nearly all have the potential for utopia if implemented purely...libertarianism included. greed always seems to win out in the end...and greed is esp scary in a system with very few checks and balances....justmho
There is plenty of checks and balances. Every party speaks as to what they will offer if elected. We vote. Not hard.
I was talking about libertarianism....but since you mentioned it....voting every 4-5 years then leaving everything to the parties is hardly checks nor balances
Or is this another one of my crystal ball predictions of a Conservative majority again?
I certainly approve of that, obviously. I would hope that whatever party wins would reintroduce that. I am not living in a fantasy world. I fucking HATE the Harper government, but I have no reason to think that they won't win a majority again, or at least a strong minority. I would prefer anything over Harper being our PM.
Curious..... What has Harper done to your personal quality of life that has made you have such ventriloque HATE at such a young age?
Where to begin? ... I'll just name a few: - muzzling of scientists - vocal support of Israel - working to pretty much base the entire Canadian economy on oil - he's anti-union - the ridiculous terms of the tax-sharing program - the bribery behind the increased (and essentially useless) child care benefit - the fact that he is does not speak to the Canadian people EVER - his almost complete evasion/barring of the press corp and limiting access to information (seriously, it's fucked up) - the fact that he heads up a bunch of corrupt motherfuckers and doesn't care - he's against the legalization of marijuana and wants to persist with the failed war against drugs - he's against the legalization of death with dignity and is still trying to throw wrenches in that process even though the supreme court overruled his ridiculous rejection of it - he's a fucking evangelical Christian; a religious fundamentalist (okay, that one is just off-putting on a personal level) - he's a fucking liar - uh, hello, Bill C-51 - he supports tax cuts for corporations/the rich - he is an enemy of the environment - massive cuts to the arts and culture sector - He reduced the budget for the Status of Women by 43% and stopped funding for research into the advancement for rights for women - he exceeded the cap for election spending in the last election, and if he doesn't do it again it will only be because people are watching - he signed a deal where Canada is now sharing customs info with corrupt China, threatening the country's security on several levels, and did it in such a hush-hush manor that hardly anyone even knows about it
Whoops, that's more than a few. Once they started coming they just wouldn't stop. I have more, but this post is getting too long. All of these things affect my personal quality of life.
Post edited by PJ_Soul on
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
Or is this another one of my crystal ball predictions of a Conservative majority again?
I certainly approve of that, obviously. I would hope that whatever party wins would reintroduce that. I am not living in a fantasy world. I fucking HATE the Harper government, but I have no reason to think that they won't win a majority again, or at least a strong minority. I would prefer anything over Harper being our PM.
Curious..... What has Harper done to your personal quality of life that has made you have such ventriloque HATE at such a young age?
All of these things affect my personal quality of life.
Or is this another one of my crystal ball predictions of a Conservative majority again?
I certainly approve of that, obviously. I would hope that whatever party wins would reintroduce that. I am not living in a fantasy world. I fucking HATE the Harper government, but I have no reason to think that they won't win a majority again, or at least a strong minority. I would prefer anything over Harper being our PM.
Curious..... What has Harper done to your personal quality of life that has made you have such ventriloque HATE at such a young age?
All of these things affect my personal quality of life.
How?
Every single point at the very least negatively affects my state of mind and how I perceive my world around me, when any of my fellow citizens are negatively affected I am also negatively affected, and how I feel about my country is negatively affected. At most it very directly affects me in the obvious ways (salary, benefits, taxes, the air I breath, the food I eat, the information that is available to me, my security, my freedom, how I die, etc etc etc). Do you not see how all of these issues would affect people? If not, FYI, some people take what the government of their country does personally. I'm one of them. You should be too.
Post edited by PJ_Soul on
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
^^^^^^ Sustaining a majority for multiple elections surely implies having been put through the wringer a few times no?
He has had one majority government - he has not sustained one thru multiple elections.
I am talking about the election win coming his way in Oct. Two months is nothing to wait. This campaign race is a smoke and mirrors road trip for everyone. No progress or damage can be done in a 3month race. These little side polls and temporary upswings for the opposition are simply that - temporary.
^^^^^^ Sustaining a majority for multiple elections surely implies having been put through the wringer a few times no?
He has had one majority government - he has not sustained one thru multiple elections.
I am talking about the election win coming his way in Oct. Two months is nothing to wait. This campaign race is a smoke and mirrors road trip for everyone. No progress or damage can be done in a 3month race. These little side polls and temporary upswings for the opposition are simply that - temporary.
Bullshit. It was past tense. And it was a pretty lame response to begin with.
Comments
To each their own I guess.
How is something 110% intertwined? Anyways, wasting a lot of money on social programs is of course why it is connected. I am for social programs (that work).
Government accountability to where the money is going would be good. I don't want people living in the street that don't want to, but don't want to pay for deadbeats who have no desire to better themselves.
In fact, I wish more money would go to health care programs because most of the homeless are mentally ill and medicate themselves with booze and drugs.
Staying out of the bedroom, and many other 'social liberal' positions (anti-war on drugs etc) are rights issues that require nothing from the government to NOT enforce. So are you drawing the line for social liberalism at 'requires my money'? Doesn't really sound like it below.
The majority of 'social liberal' issues that require government involvement are tied to poverty, which is an economic issue. that's how they're intertwined. Are you not still an economic liberal if you support more tax money going to mental health and medical care? (you'll need a lot more of those dollars if you're drawing the line at healthcare and not at food/shelter for those mentally ill 'deadbeats')
My point is, the conservative (and internationally, neo-liberal) approach of deregulation, free trade, opposing unions and minimum wages, of opposing social safety net programs etc etc is 110% (
Also, government accountability isn't a ideologically partisan issue.
It all becomes noise to me at this point. It is a pointless argument on "what it is called".
I believe what I believe. We can debate that, but I am not going to debate in labels, etc.
it's just not mentally stimulating. Something off Twatter or Facialbook
Re: the 'deadbeats'...would you agree that pretty much anyone with no drive to be self sufficient is likely suffering from some sort of mental disorder?
I agree that more money should go to healthcare...and I think too much blame is pointed at spending on social programs, and not enough toward corporate welfare, and military/'security' spending. i mean...you've complained about the banks before....when talking waste and accountability, and the things that are dragging us down, that's an example of who we should be talking about. Not deadbeats. Small potatoes by comparison.
Socialism for the rich is wrong too.
Help for those who NEED IT, not for the lazy. I don't believe everyone who lacks drive to succeed is mentally ill. There are people who use the social safety net to their advantage.
I disagree with corporate welfare, because it is socialism for the rich. I wish socialism could really work, I do. But when I see how much of my wages go to federal and provincial taxes, (not to mention sales tax, property tax) I have to ask when does it end? How much more can I give until it starts to effect me and my family?
I wish we had a tax system completely set up on a user fees/tax system. Similar to VAT in Europe. Income tax is a scam... I get taxed for WORKING?
Anyway... Overall I will stand behind what I have said in the past, as a proud Canadian.
We have the best political ideology in the world, the perfect blend of socialism and capitalism.
What worries me is that the extreme left just continually thinks the rich or corporations should pay more and more taxes.
Combined, my wife and I make close to a half million a year, and if you don't think we pay a LOT of taxes, you are delusional. I wish I new they we were being used properly.
anyway....this discussion gets really broad and ideological.
I bumped this to see if any of you have taken the quiz at https://canada.isidewith.com/political-quiz
I did, and was really surprised to see my results come back with the Liberal party as my closest match at 91%...then the Greens at 90%....NDP at 88%, and Communist at 75%.....Cons at 10%
What a great site tho! Tons and tons of info, and an ability to check popular opinion based on nation, province, or city, for each question....compare platforms, discuss stances. great stuff. Not to patronize, but I think everyone should spend a lot of time on this site before the election!
I, like you, need to look into a few of these issues more carefully.
I saw the guy on the morning news yesterday. Obviously his ad is working like gangbusters, because there is no way the media would be interviewing him and asking him about his platform otherwise.
Libertarian 78%
Conservative 67%
Liberal 67%
NDP 67%
BQ 54%
Communist 54%
Green 52%
I'm not sure this helped me at all :lol
I have always thought of myself as a Libertarian, so now I will just say that as opposed to a "social liberal, fiscal conservative"
http://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/canada/pm-says-hell-reintroduce-life-means-life/ar-BBlQx6f?ocid=mailsignoutmd
Or is this another one of my crystal ball predictions of a Conservative majority again?
I am not living in a fantasy world. I fucking HATE the Harper government, but I have no reason to think that they won't win a majority again, or at least a strong minority. As long as the left is split between two major parties, the Conservatives will win... barring something even worse than all the diabolical things they have already done, which is pretty fucking hard to imagine. Then again... it's not like it's impossible for another party to win a minority government. But honestly, I'm not even sure I would prefer that. A minority government is generally even less effective than a majority one.... Wait, no. I take that back. I would prefer anything over Harper being our PM.
What has Harper done to your personal quality of life that has made you have such ventriloque HATE at such a young age?
1thought....still a label man! I would rather tell you who I'm voting for (undecided as of now), than define my political beliefs in a word or two
You're only 10% away from being NDP
There are positives to every ideology; nearly all have the potential for utopia if implemented purely...libertarianism included. greed always seems to win out in the end...and greed is esp scary in a system with very few checks and balances....justmho
http://m.thetyee.ca/Opinion/2015/08/10/Harper-Abuses-of-Power-Final/?utm_source=fb-page-editor-post&utm_medium=fb-page&utm_campaign=fb-08-2015
Every party speaks as to what they will offer if elected.
We vote.
Not hard.
Sustaining a majority for multiple elections surely implies having been put through the wringer a few times no?
- muzzling of scientists
- vocal support of Israel
- working to pretty much base the entire Canadian economy on oil
- he's anti-union
- the ridiculous terms of the tax-sharing program
- the bribery behind the increased (and essentially useless) child care benefit
- the fact that he is does not speak to the Canadian people EVER
- his almost complete evasion/barring of the press corp and limiting access to information (seriously, it's fucked up)
- the fact that he heads up a bunch of corrupt motherfuckers and doesn't care
- he's against the legalization of marijuana and wants to persist with the failed war against drugs
- he's against the legalization of death with dignity and is still trying to throw wrenches in that process even though the supreme court overruled his ridiculous rejection of it
- he's a fucking evangelical Christian; a religious fundamentalist (okay, that one is just off-putting on a personal level)
- he's a fucking liar
- uh, hello, Bill C-51
- he supports tax cuts for corporations/the rich
- he is an enemy of the environment
- massive cuts to the arts and culture sector
- He reduced the budget for the Status of Women by 43% and stopped funding for research into the advancement for rights for women
- he exceeded the cap for election spending in the last election, and if he doesn't do it again it will only be because people are watching
- he signed a deal where Canada is now sharing customs info with corrupt China, threatening the country's security on several levels, and did it in such a hush-hush manor that hardly anyone even knows about it
Whoops, that's more than a few. Once they started coming they just wouldn't stop. I have more, but this post is getting too long.
All of these things affect my personal quality of life.
Two months is nothing to wait.
This campaign race is a smoke and mirrors road trip for everyone.
No progress or damage can be done in a 3month race.
These little side polls and temporary upswings for the opposition are simply that - temporary.