Canadian Politics

polaris_x

PJ_Soul wrote:

Many will ... but don't underestimate Canadian voters too much. Many do tend to know bullshit when they see it. I don't think this tactic will work well for the Harper government in the long run. They need to be careful if they don't want to come off as scared assholes.

ya ... but it plays right into their base ... conservative voters eat this shit up like fried chicken and waffles ... ... it's what got Harper into power and ultimately what will keep them in power ...

as long as 65% of the country split their votes 4 ways ... it'll be hard to unseat these asshats ...

PJ_Soul

polaris_x wrote:

PJ_Soul wrote:

Many will ... but don't underestimate Canadian voters too much. Many do tend to know bullshit when they see it. I don't think this tactic will work well for the Harper government in the long run. They need to be careful if they don't want to come off as scared assholes.

ya ... but it plays right into their base ... conservative voters eat this shit up like fried chicken and waffles ... ... it's what got Harper into power and ultimately what will keep them in power ...

as long as 65% of the country split their votes 4 ways ... it'll be hard to unseat these asshats ...

Agreed.... hey, it's an argument for a 2 party system... :think:

polaris_x

PJ_Soul wrote:

Agreed.... hey, it's an argument for a 2 party system... :think:

hell no! ... haha

lukin2006

PJ_Soul wrote:

lukin2006 wrote:

Sure Canadians will fall for it. They've voted Harper in 3 times and he's used the same tactics.

They'll also fall for it because look at how many have fallen for Trudeau even though he was light on policy, and it appeared Garneau or Murray were far better candidates.

To me the combined governments of Canada have spent the better part of the last 30 years or so dumbing people down through the education system so they won't realize how badly they are getting screwed they are.

People kept voting him in because they are comfortable, and yes, are scared of change for the worse. With Harper, those people have not suffered or been very uncomfortable (not thanks to Harper, but thanks to Canada's unique abilities to withstand the global economic crisis relatively unscathed). I don't think it had anything to do with his campaigning tactics personally.

I actually think that Trudeau has been pretty clear about what his policies would be... Sounds like you are falling for the Conservative line too maybe; that's their tactic - to make it seem like he's light on policy. I do not believe this is has actually been the case.

Anyway, the Liberal party is not likely to have a sudden meteoric rise in 2 years (although anything's possible - politics can turn on a dime; god knows what might happen in 2 years). But I think that the election after than will likely be where the Liberals can make a real come back under Trudeau. Especially since by then Harper is going to be old and will be very, very unappealing to younger voters (not that he isn't already to some extent).

No actually I'm not falling for any tactics. I don't like Trudeau and that's my own opinion, the liberals put someone in charge of the party that they feel is best able to lead them back in power, not becacause he's necessarily the best candidate but because he's the most like able ... The liberals feel they are the only one who can run the country ... The truth is neither the conservatives or liberals are very good at running the country for the average citizen and that there is my opinion. So don't fucking tell me I'm falling for any conservative or liberal bs.

PJ_Soul

lukin2006 wrote:

PJ_Soul wrote:

lukin2006 wrote:

Sure Canadians will fall for it. They've voted Harper in 3 times and he's used the same tactics.

They'll also fall for it because look at how many have fallen for Trudeau even though he was light on policy, and it appeared Garneau or Murray were far better candidates.

To me the combined governments of Canada have spent the better part of the last 30 years or so dumbing people down through the education system so they won't realize how badly they are getting screwed they are.

People kept voting him in because they are comfortable, and yes, are scared of change for the worse. With Harper, those people have not suffered or been very uncomfortable (not thanks to Harper, but thanks to Canada's unique abilities to withstand the global economic crisis relatively unscathed). I don't think it had anything to do with his campaigning tactics personally.

I actually think that Trudeau has been pretty clear about what his policies would be... Sounds like you are falling for the Conservative line too maybe; that's their tactic - to make it seem like he's light on policy. I do not believe this is has actually been the case.

Anyway, the Liberal party is not likely to have a sudden meteoric rise in 2 years (although anything's possible - politics can turn on a dime; god knows what might happen in 2 years). But I think that the election after than will likely be where the Liberals can make a real come back under Trudeau. Especially since by then Harper is going to be old and will be very, very unappealing to younger voters (not that he isn't already to some extent).

No actually I'm not falling for any tactics. I don't like Trudeau and that's my own opinion, the liberals put someone in charge of the party that they feel is best able to lead them back in power, not becacause he's necessarily the best candidate but because he's the most like able ... The liberals feel they are the only one who can run the country ... The truth is neither the conservatives or liberals are very good at running the country for the average citizen and that there is my opinion. So don't fucking tell me I'm falling for any conservative or liberal bs.

Whoa, easy there. :? I do not support the conservatives or the liberals either. I said that because you iterated the exact same line that the conservatives are dishing out, while the point is in fact false. That's why i thought you were swallowing their line. If you just independently came up with the same BS that the conservative party did, then I am sorry for attributing your original BS to another source.

polaris_x

pjsoul ... lukin is jaded beyond belief ... ... i don't blame him ... but you have to understand his bitterness runs deep ... :P

dignin

Some interesting points about the timing of the latest "terrorist plot" arrests here in Canada

I'm sorry for the shitty copy and past, just click the link, it's a much easier read.



http://www.thestar.com/opinion/commenta ... llick.html

Conservative anti-terror bill and arrests match up beautifully, don’t they: Mallick
No attack was imminent and the tip was a year old.


How odd. The week after the Boston bombings, the Conservative government had MPs suddenly debating an anti-terror bill that had long been hanging around with its hands in its pockets. The very same day, conveniently, the RCMP arrested two alleged terrorists.
They had a tip from an imam, the cops said. They got it a year ago.
Call me cynical. I’m not, I am hopeful credulity itself, but the anti-terror bill is shameful and the arrests dubious. The police press conference consisted of a dozen white male cops — and a token female — in a variety of uniforms congratulating each other and offering next to no information.
“Let’s get the details in English and in French, it’s how they roll,” said a Fox News guy named Shep. “God love Canada, but they’re not great at the television.” God love Fox, but they’re not great at the journalism.

The attack was not imminent, the RCMP said, but was allegedly “Al Qaeda-sponsored” and had ties to Iran. It was aimed at a Via train route between Toronto and New York.
This seems strange. One could hardly choose a more unobtrusive target than Via trains which spend much time maddeningly stationary anyway. A lawyer for one of the arrested men noted in court the odd coincidence of timing Tuesday, as did NDP defence critic Jack Harris in the House on Monday. What fearful symmetry.
And why would Al Qaeda, Sunni by nature, work with Iran, a Shiite nation? But perhaps that’s just how Iran rolls.

The anti-terror bill, known as the Combating (sic)Terrorism Act is being rushed through its third reading. It is a horrifying bill, just as it was when it passed in 2001, when it was not renewed in 2007 thanks to the Liberal opposition, and when it finally reached the Senate last year.

But now the Conservatives have a majority and this is what they want. As Leslie MacKinnon of CBC News reported, “preventative detention” would mean that any Canadian could be arrested and held for three days on suspicion of terrorist involvement with no charge being laid.
“An investigative hearing” means that someone suspected of knowing about a terrorist plot could be imprisoned for up to a year if they refused to answer questions.
The bill would also make it illegal to leave Canada if you intend to commit an act of terrorism. This is presumably aimed at people going to training camps or meetings. But what it means is that Canadian police may well take the word of foreign governments making wild claims about any Canadian travelling overseas.
Imagine you or me, on vacation, being arrested on those grounds. The question is: Do you trust Stephen Harper and the Conservative government and the RCMP to do the ethical, informed, reasonable thing in your case? Or do you expect them to follow a hard-right ideology, to overreact as the Americans do?
The RCMP is a disgraced police force. Cute as it is when American journalists joke about arrests by scarlet-suited men on horseback, the most recent memory I have of the RCMP is watching them terrify, hood and tape down a young girl on an airplane.
She was the late Ashley Smith. The Smith videos are films of torture by committee, and the torture is being applied by Mounties and guards.
I do not trust them, just as I no longer trust Toronto police after the G20 debacle and do not trust a Harper majority government. Its calling card is to warn us non-stop of “Muslim terrorists,” which might not offend were this government neutral on religion.
It is not. Radio Canada reports that Ottawa has just given $20 million of infrastructure spending to 13 Christian universities, seminaries and colleges, from Evangelical to Baptist to Mennonite. These schools are taking our tax dollars even though they illegally prohibit gay relationships.
It isn’t a government’s role to build up one religion against another. It would be uncivilized. Equally, the terror bill is too draconian for Canada. It is more suited to a panicked U.S., but yes, it will pass because the Conservatives have a majority.
It will be a shameful day.

lukin2006

Doesn't matter who we elect! We need real change in the way we choose our elected officials, not just federally but provincially. Not 1 federal leader is worthy to be prime minister ... in Ontario where I live I feel the same way not 1 of the three main party leaders is fit to be premiere. And you what I find sad ... I never hear any of the leaders saying "we need to grow the economy". Here in Ontario where fucked ... the manufacturing jobs that paid $20-$30 with good benefits have been replaced with $11-$13 jobs with poor benefits. I would not doubt for 1 minute that this was the intent of politicians to drive out the good paying jobs to see them replaced with lower paying jobs. After all how often does the media or anyone else ever focus on government revenue ... but they sure focus on the unemployment rate though ...

So as for this bill being introduced on Monday the same day they made 2 arrest ... it's does strike me as odd ... and nothing surprises me with politicians anymore.

polaris_x

ya ... it's complete BS ... fucking cons

polaris_x

if we don't want to be dumbed down like they are down south because of right wing propaganda (fox) ... sign this petition ...

http://www.avaaz.org/en/stop_fox_news_n ... 2/?cKYCfab

dignin

polaris_x wrote:

if we don't want to be dumbed down like they are down south because of right wing propaganda (fox) ... sign this petition ...

http://www.avaaz.org/en/stop_fox_news_n ... 2/?cKYCfab

Please, please don't let this happen.

lukin2006

I don't need to sign no petition, I don't watch any of that rubbish and that includes CNN, msnbc, cbcnw, ctv 24 hour news ... I watch a little of the national and my local news and that's it. I just cancelled my sat package anyhow and have an antenna guy on comining in a couple weeks.

None of them report the news anymore ...

lukin2006

Canadians are already dumbed down ... Look at every salivating at the trudeau's prospects

polaris_x

lukin2006 wrote:

Canadians are already dumbed down ... Look at every salivating at the trudeau's prospects

obviously it's not perfect ... but what makes you think trudeau would not be a good pm? ... is it his ideology? ... is it his connection to some special interests or corporations? ... or is it simply he is part of a system you've already abandoned?

lukin2006

polaris_x wrote:

lukin2006 wrote:

Canadians are already dumbed down ... Look at every salivating at the trudeau's prospects

obviously it's not perfect ... but what makes you think trudeau would not be a good pm? ... is it his ideology? ... is it his connection to some special interests or corporations? ... or is it simply he is part of a system you've already abandoned?

He's part of the same old system ... I've stated before that federally the libs and cons have been running the show forever and this country is going backwards instead of forward...imo.

As far as Canadians being dumbed down ... I truly believe that ... I just have to look at the area I live in ... 1000's of good manufacturing jobs have been replaced with $11-$13 jobs and they continue to vote libs, cons or NDP ... this area battered with high unemployment and low paying jobs at least send a message and vote green, start a movement ... but for the life of me their being screwed and don't even realize it or want to get their collective heads out of their ass's.

polaris_x

lukin2006 wrote:

He's part of the same old system ... I've stated before that federally the libs and cons have been running the show forever and this country is going backwards instead of forward...imo.

As far as Canadians being dumbed down ... I truly believe that ... I just have to look at the area I live in ... 1000's of good manufacturing jobs have been replaced with $11-$13 jobs and they continue to vote libs, cons or NDP ... this area battered with high unemployment and low paying jobs at least send a message and vote green, start a movement ... but for the life of me their being screwed and don't even realize it or want to get their collective heads out of their ass's.

i hear ya and it's not that i necessarily disagree ... but when i compare our political landscape vs. that of say the US ... it's like a thousand times better ... if i look at the current leaders - only Harper stands out as someone who is tied to an agenda that isn't tied to Canadians ... i think the old school liberals are on the way out and although i probably still wouldn't vote for him ... i do think that it's a move in the positive direction ...

at the end of the day - we can only hope for honest and transparent governance ... some of the problems our country has isn't necessarily tied to the politics but like you said - people are stupid ... if everyone continues to only look out for themselves - it's not possible to create a country that works for the majority ...

all i know is i'm so glad my choices here aren't people like donald trump, rand paul, michelle bachman and the likes ...

lukin2006

polaris_x wrote:

lukin2006 wrote:

He's part of the same old system ... I've stated before that federally the libs and cons have been running the show forever and this country is going backwards instead of forward...imo.

As far as Canadians being dumbed down ... I truly believe that ... I just have to look at the area I live in ... 1000's of good manufacturing jobs have been replaced with $11-$13 jobs and they continue to vote libs, cons or NDP ... this area battered with high unemployment and low paying jobs at least send a message and vote green, start a movement ... but for the life of me their being screwed and don't even realize it or want to get their collective heads out of their ass's.

i hear ya and it's not that i necessarily disagree ... but when i compare our political landscape vs. that of say the US ... it's like a thousand times better ... if i look at the current leaders - only Harper stands out as someone who is tied to an agenda that isn't tied to Canadians ... i think the old school liberals are on the way out and although i probably still wouldn't vote for him ... i do think that it's a move in the positive direction ...

at the end of the day - we can only hope for honest and transparent governance ... some of the problems our country has isn't necessarily tied to the politics but like you said - people are stupid ... if everyone continues to only look out for themselves - it's not possible to create a country that works for the majority ...

all i know is i'm so glad my choices here aren't people like donald trump, rand paul, michelle bachman and the likes ...

So true ... Just wish people would wake up ... It's time for some change, which I don't see happening anytime.

polaris_x

welcome to the 51st state! ...

http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/2013 ... ained.html

OTTAWA—The federal government can’t account for how it spent more than $3 billion earmarked for anti-terror initiatives, the auditor general says.

In a report released Tuesday, Michael Ferguson looked at Canada’s security spending in the wake of the Sept. 11, 2001 terror attacks and discovered that the government was unable to explain how it spent almost a quarter of the cash.

The audit examined Ottawa’s “public security and anti-terrorism” program that was launched in late 2001 with the goal of deterring terrorism. The program had broad goals and included spending on air security, emergency preparedness, intelligence and policing and border infrastructure.

In all, some $12.9 billion was earmarked for the initiative. However, departments and agencies reported spending just $9.8 billion between 2001 and 2009, leaving $3.1 billion unaccounted for, Ferguson writes in his audit report.

However, officials chalk up the discrepancy to lax bookkeeping. The audit suggests several scenarios for what may have happened: the funding may have lapsed and never been spent; or it may have been spent on anti-terror efforts but reported as other program spending; or it may have been spent on program unrelated to security.

dignin

polaris_x wrote:

welcome to the 51st state! ...

http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/2013 ... ained.html

OTTAWA—The federal government can’t account for how it spent more than $3 billion earmarked for anti-terror initiatives, the auditor general says.

In a report released Tuesday, Michael Ferguson looked at Canada’s security spending in the wake of the Sept. 11, 2001 terror attacks and discovered that the government was unable to explain how it spent almost a quarter of the cash.

The audit examined Ottawa’s “public security and anti-terrorism” program that was launched in late 2001 with the goal of deterring terrorism. The program had broad goals and included spending on air security, emergency preparedness, intelligence and policing and border infrastructure.

In all, some $12.9 billion was earmarked for the initiative. However, departments and agencies reported spending just $9.8 billion between 2001 and 2009, leaving $3.1 billion unaccounted for, Ferguson writes in his audit report.

However, officials chalk up the discrepancy to lax bookkeeping. The audit suggests several scenarios for what may have happened: the funding may have lapsed and never been spent; or it may have been spent on anti-terror efforts but reported as other program spending; or it may have been spent on program unrelated to security.

Doh!

dignin

An excellent three part series by CBC Senior Washington Corespondent Neil Macdonald. Thought you guys might be interested in this, very eyeopening.


http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/story/2013 ... avers.html

http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/story/2013 ... rowth.html

http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/story/2013 ... crecy.html