Trayvon Martin

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  • Godfather.
    Godfather. Posts: 12,504
    Indifference wrote:
    For what it is worth the latest picture:

    http://abcnews.go.com/US/george-zimmerm ... d=16177849

    scrary thought that he(zimmerman) might be telling the truth. :shock:


    Godfather.
  • ComeToTX
    ComeToTX Austin Posts: 8,070
    He can be telling the truth and still be guilty. He pursued after being told not to and he was the only one armed.
    This show, another show, a show here and a show there.
  • Indifference
    Indifference Posts: 2,763
    ComeToTX wrote:
    He can be telling the truth and still be guilty. He pursued after being told not to and he was the only one armed.

    I don't follow this logic so must be missing something. If his version of the truth is "self-defense" and it is true what is he guilty of?

    SHOW COUNT: (170) 1990's=3, 2000's=53, 2010/20's=114, US=124, CAN=15, Europe=20 ,New Zealand=4, Australia=5
    Mexico=1, Colombia=1 



  • polaris_x
    polaris_x Posts: 13,559
    Indifference wrote:
    I don't follow this logic so must be missing something. If his version of the truth is "self-defense" and it is true what is he guilty of?

    not saying this is what happened but if i confront you on the street ... and you, in fear of your life, attack me - do i have the right to kill you?
  • Indifference
    Indifference Posts: 2,763
    polaris_x wrote:
    Indifference wrote:
    I don't follow this logic so must be missing something. If his version of the truth is "self-defense" and it is true what is he guilty of?

    not saying this is what happened but if i confront you on the street ... and you, in fear of your life, attack me - do i have the right to kill you?

    I'm not a FL law or Stand your ground law expert but I think the answer to your question is yes fron wiki:

    A stand-your-ground law states that a person may use force in self-defense when there is reasonable belief of a threat, without an obligation to retreat first. In some cases, a person may use deadly force in public areas without a duty to retreat.

    SHOW COUNT: (170) 1990's=3, 2000's=53, 2010/20's=114, US=124, CAN=15, Europe=20 ,New Zealand=4, Australia=5
    Mexico=1, Colombia=1 



  • shadowcast
    shadowcast Posts: 2,336
    ht_george_zimmerman_head_dm_120419_wmain.jpg

    I wonder what his face looked like.
  • polaris_x
    polaris_x Posts: 13,559
    Indifference wrote:
    I'm not a FL law or Stand your ground law expert but I think the answer to your question is yes fron wiki:

    A stand-your-ground law states that a person may use force in self-defense when there is reasonable belief of a threat, without an obligation to retreat first. In some cases, a person may use deadly force in public areas without a duty to retreat.

    ya ... and this is why the law is problematic ...

    edit: i think if the prosecution can show that zimmerman instigated the altercation then perhaps this law won't save him!? ... i dunno
  • shadowcast
    shadowcast Posts: 2,336
    Do you think it's possible that this prosecution is being done because of public pressure based on speculation only?

    Looking at the facts that have been coming out it's starting to look like self defense. I know some of you are going to say that he shouldn't have been following him in the 1st place. That's a great point and all but that's not a law. What seems to be the case is if you follow in a menacing way.

    (784.048 Florida Statutes Stalking; definitions; penalties.—
    (1) As used in this section, the term:
    (a) “Harass” means to engage in a course of conduct directed at a specific person that causes substantial emotional distress in such person and serves no legitimate purpose.
    (b) “Course of conduct” means a pattern of conduct composed of a series of acts over a period of time, however short, evidencing a continuity of purpose. Constitutionally protected activity is not included within the meaning of “course of conduct.” Such constitutionally protected activity includes picketing or other organized protests.

    (c) “Credible threat” means a threat made with the intent to cause the person who is the target of the threat to reasonably fear for his or her safety. The threat must be against the life of, or a threat to cause bodily injury to, a person.

    (d) “Cyberstalk” means to engage in a course of conduct to communicate, or to cause to be communicated, words, images, or language by or through the use of electronic mail or electronic communication, directed at a specific person, causing substantial emotional distress to that person and serving no legitimate purpose.

    (2) Any person who willfully, maliciously, and repeatedly follows, harasses, or cyberstalks another person commits the offense of stalking, a misdemeanor of the first degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082 or s. 775.083.
  • shadowcast
    shadowcast Posts: 2,336
    http://www.stoptheaclu.com/2012/04/13/h ... affidavit/

    Very interesting take by Alan Dershowitz of Harvard Law School. Scroll all the way down to the video.
  • ComeToTX
    ComeToTX Austin Posts: 8,070
    I start a fight and start getting my ass kicked so I pull a gun and kill you with no penalty. Is this SYG in a nutshell?
    This show, another show, a show here and a show there.
  • Jason P
    Jason P Posts: 19,316
    ComeToTX wrote:
    I start a fight and start getting my ass kicked so I pull a gun and kill you with no penalty. Is this SYG in a nutshell?
    It's Florida in a nutshell (with a huge emphasis on the"nut"). ;)
    Be Excellent To Each Other
    Party On, Dudes!
  • Blockhead
    Blockhead Posts: 1,538
    ComeToTX wrote:
    I start a fight and start getting my ass kicked so I pull a gun and kill you with no penalty. Is this SYG in a nutshell?
    Proof of starting said fight?
  • shadowcast
    shadowcast Posts: 2,336
    ComeToTX wrote:
    I start a fight and start getting my ass kicked so I pull a gun and kill you with no penalty. Is this SYG in a nutshell?
    Did Zimmerman punch Trayvon 1st? To me that's starting a fight.
  • PJ_Soul
    PJ_Soul Vancouver, BC Posts: 50,715
    Indifference wrote:
    For what it is worth the latest picture:

    http://abcnews.go.com/US/george-zimmerm ... d=16177849

    Not worth too much to me.
    The apology: He was looking at the lawyer, not the family. And that fuckin' website of his just totally cancels out his apology for me. He had to apologize according to his lawyers, so he did.

    As for the photo... I never disbelieved that there was a struggle. It's the stalking with a gun part and ignoring police about backing off before hand that makes me believe he's guilty of manslaughter (not second degree murder). It makes sense to me that Trayvon reacted to being stalked home by this guy, not knowing why he was being followed, hence a possible struggle between the two (I imagine something along the lines of: Trayvon: "Hey, why the fuck are you following me man?! Wtf?! (trying to be intimidating)" Zimmerman has a gun and aims it at him. Trayvon reacts by maybe pushing him or something, or jumping on him or whatever, Zimmerman lands on the back of his head - since Trayvon had no weapons, those head wounds must be from his head hitting the ground). That is just what I've imagined happened from what facts I've heard.
    With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
  • shadowcast
    shadowcast Posts: 2,336
    PJ_Soul wrote:
    Indifference wrote:
    For what it is worth the latest picture:

    http://abcnews.go.com/US/george-zimmerm ... d=16177849

    Not worth too much to me.
    The apology: He was looking at the lawyer, not the family. And that fuckin' website of his just totally cancels out his apology for me. He had to apologize according to his lawyers, so he did.

    As for the photo... I never disbelieved that there was a struggle. It's the stalking with a gun part and ignoring police about backing off before hand that makes me believe he's guilty of manslaughter (not second degree murder). It makes sense to me that Trayvon reacted to being stalked home by this guy, not knowing why he was being followed, hence a possible struggle between the two (I imagine something along the lines of: Trayvon: "Hey, why the fuck are you following me man?! Wtf?! (trying to be intimidating)" Zimmerman has a gun and aims it at him. Trayvon reacts by maybe pushing him or something, or jumping on him or whatever, Zimmerman lands on the back of his head - since Trayvon had no weapons, those head wounds must be from his head hitting the ground). That is just what I've imagined happened from what facts I've heard.
    If Zimmerman aimed that gun at him there would not have been a struggle.
  • polaris_x
    polaris_x Posts: 13,559
    shadowcast wrote:
    If Zimmerman aimed that gun at him there would not have been a struggle.

    if you think he's gonna shoot - there might be
  • gimmesometruth27
    gimmesometruth27 St. Fuckin Louis Posts: 24,229
    i want to see a photo of the head injury/cut after the blood has been wiped away. or i want to see the scar. the head and scalp is very vascular and it does not take much of a cut at all to cause a lot of bleeding. also the scar can tell a lot about the nature of the injury, such as what kind of wound it was, like an abrasion, puncture, laceration, etc... the type of cut will tell you the mechanism of injury and etiology. and if the injuries are consistent with defensive movements then that might impact the case.
    "You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry."  - Lincoln

    "Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
  • gimmesometruth27
    gimmesometruth27 St. Fuckin Louis Posts: 24,229
    polaris_x wrote:
    shadowcast wrote:
    If Zimmerman aimed that gun at him there would not have been a struggle.

    if you think he's gonna shoot - there might be
    yes, any self defense class will tell you how to take a gun away from someone. that was one of the first things we learned. it is quite the opposite of dealing with someone with a knife. when someone has a knife you run away and you live...
    "You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry."  - Lincoln

    "Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
  • shadowcast
    shadowcast Posts: 2,336
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1lDfxzvx ... e=youtu.be

    Wyclef never misses an opprotunity.
  • Blockhead
    Blockhead Posts: 1,538
    PJ_Soul wrote:
    Indifference wrote:
    For what it is worth the latest picture:

    http://abcnews.go.com/US/george-zimmerm ... d=16177849

    Not worth too much to me.
    The apology: He was looking at the lawyer, not the family. And that fuckin' website of his just totally cancels out his apology for me. He had to apologize according to his lawyers, so he did.

    As for the photo... I never disbelieved that there was a struggle. It's the stalking with a gun part and ignoring police about backing off before hand that makes me believe he's guilty of manslaughter (not second degree murder). It makes sense to me that Trayvon reacted to being stalked home by this guy, not knowing why he was being followed, hence a possible struggle between the two (I imagine something along the lines of: Trayvon: "Hey, why the fuck are you following me man?! Wtf?! (trying to be intimidating)" Zimmerman has a gun and aims it at him. Trayvon reacts by maybe pushing him or something, or jumping on him or whatever, Zimmerman lands on the back of his head - since Trayvon had no weapons, those head wounds must be from his head hitting the ground). That is just what I've imagined happened from what facts I've heard.
    Following =/= Stalking/Harrassment...
    Just because someone is walking behind you does not give you the permission to attack them...
    The point at which someone is following/annoying and becomes a physical threat are two different things...

    It also sounds like you have a hard time of conceiving facts... WHy would zimmerman just pull the gun out and try and kill him when he just got done calling the cops and reporting what he was doing???

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