Afghanistan

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  • mickeyratmickeyrat Posts: 25,326
    mickeyrat said:
    can you guys point to on record quotes of what advice Biden was given?

    sometimes my questions get lost amongst the bickering.
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  • The faux outrage or desirability for accountability only comes out when its one side. Has anyone answered Mickey's question yet? How's that border "crisis." Bottom line? dems are held accountable, way more so than repubs. Why can't you acknowledge that? Everything is same-same?

    Did Biden lie, referring to your post of this morning?HughFreakingDillon said:
    Listen to the righteous. Holy crap, relitagating the Clinton years. POOTWH may very well be the repubs nominee in 2024 and 65M+ voters will likely vote for him. Some here can’t see the difference in that? Talk about blinders.
    some of us have the ability to talk about different things in different situations without it always being a comparable to something else. 

    funny, for the last 4 years, anytime said anything about hillary, your response was a mocking "buh buh buh hillary", but now that a dem is in office, any criticism levied at him is met with a "buh buh buh trump".  
    Buh, buh, buh, buh Hillary released 20 years of tax returns. Buh, buh, buh, buh Hillary and the CGF were investigated and nothing came from it. Buh, buh, buh, buh Hillary and Benghazi. Buh, buh, buh Hillary and White Water. Same with Rose Firm billing records. And Vince Foster. And her emails. Tell me again, how outraged I should be over Hillary's malfeascance. And you want me to believe that somehow both sides are the same and that they are or should be held accountable. Delusional.

    Criticism, in my view should be justifiable and warranted. Not made up faux outrage. A lot of that here lately and for some, a hell of a lot less of it when it was wholly justifiable and backed with facts. To the bold, in the absence of facts.

    Did Biden lie about what his generals told him?
    stop putting words in people's mouths. 

    i never said both sides were the same. 
    i never said, nor even came close to implying, that i'm outraged. I used the word "concerning". it that "outrage" to you? we should be questioning our elected representatives, whether they fall under your version of justifiable (AKA: did trump do worse?) or not. 

    I hold people accountable on their own actions based on the merits of what they've done, not on some "but he did it first/worse" childish sliding scale. 
    Did Biden lie about what his general(s) told him, seeing it concerns you so very much?
    I don't know. do you?

    and again, I said I was less concerned if he lied than if he couldn't recall. 

    can't wait for you to ask me this same question in 6 months. 
    Can't wait for you to be "concerned" when Biden can't recall something he said or was told, tomorrow.
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  • mickeyrat said:
    mickeyrat said:
    can you guys point to on record quotes of what advice Biden was given?

    sometimes my questions get lost amongst the bickering.
    Because they can't but we should be "concerned." Biden got us the fuck out of Afghanistan. And he solved the border "crisis", you know the one, the one that took roughly 10 days to materialize and yet he had it cleaned up in a couple of weeks? Yea, that one.

    You (general you), want criticism of dems?  Kick Manchin and Sinema out of the party and encourage them to become repubs. Then we can all be "honest" and know who to blame when the government shuts down and 'Murica defaults on its debt acquired by POOTWH and previous administrations.
    09/15/1998, Mansfield, MA; 08/29/00 08/30/00, Mansfield, MA; 07/02/03, 07/03/03, Mansfield, MA; 09/28/04, 09/29/04, Boston, MA; 09/22/05, Halifax, NS; 05/24/06, 05/25/06, Boston, MA; 07/22/06, 07/23/06, Gorge, WA; 06/29/08, 06/30/08, Mansfield, MA; 08/18/08, O2 London, UK; 10/30/09, 10/31/09, Philadelphia, PA; 05/15/10, Hartford, CT; 05/17/10, Boston, MA; 05/20/10, 05/21/10, NY, NY; 06/22/10, Dublin, IRE; 06/23/10, Northern Ireland; 09/03/11, 09/04/11, Alpine Valley, WI; 09/11/11, 09/12/11, Toronto, Ont; 09/14/11, Ottawa, Ont; 09/15/11, Hamilton, Ont; 07/02/2012, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/04/2012 & 07/05/2012, Berlin, Germany; 07/07/2012, Stockholm, Sweden; 09/30/2012, Missoula, MT; 07/16/2013, London, Ont; 07/19/2013, Chicago, IL; 10/15/2013 & 10/16/2013, Worcester, MA; 10/21/2013 & 10/22/2013, Philadelphia, PA; 10/25/2013, Hartford, CT; 11/29/2013, Portland, OR; 11/30/2013, Spokane, WA; 12/04/2013, Vancouver, BC; 12/06/2013, Seattle, WA; 10/03/2014, St. Louis. MO; 10/22/2014, Denver, CO; 10/26/2015, New York, NY; 04/23/2016, New Orleans, LA; 04/28/2016 & 04/29/2016, Philadelphia, PA; 05/01/2016 & 05/02/2016, New York, NY; 05/08/2016, Ottawa, Ont.; 05/10/2016 & 05/12/2016, Toronto, Ont.; 08/05/2016 & 08/07/2016, Boston, MA; 08/20/2016 & 08/22/2016, Chicago, IL; 07/01/2018, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/03/2018, Krakow, Poland; 07/05/2018, Berlin, Germany; 09/02/2018 & 09/04/2018, Boston, MA;

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  • The JugglerThe Juggler Behind that bush over there.Posts: 42,657
    JB16057 said:
    mrussel1 said:
    Interesting that we're not entertaining the possibility that his generals are the ones playing both sides of the coin.  
    If this is true, do you think Biden would take immediate action against them? There are many upset over the handling of Afghanistan and if his own generals are lying about what actually happened, Biden should get rid of them right now or at least discipline them. They all know what Biden said publicly and they are contradicting that. If he doesn't do something right now, what are they willing to do next?

    How many employees can tell lies about their boss and get away unscathed?
    well michael flynn was convicted and pardoned. maybe some of these generals are maga with an axe to grind against biden?
    On a side note, Michael Flynn is under the assumption the government is putting the covid vaccine in salad dressing.

    https://www.insider.com/michael-flynn-pushing-conspiracy-theory-covid19-vaccines-in-salad-dressing-2021-9
    chinese-happy.jpg
  • Lerxst1992Lerxst1992 Posts: 4,690
    And it didn’t start with POOTWH. Shrub lied us into Iraq, remember “Mission Accomplished?” And 22,000,000 missing emails? Who was held accountable? Biden lies about getting the US out of a failed war, oh the horror!
    had trump lied to get us out of that failed war, and US service members died during the pullout, you'd be losing your shit. 

    and honestly, i was less concerned about the potential that he lied; more the potential that he "didn't recall". recalling things like that is pretty important. 

    Playing the both sides card on whether Biden should have kept troops in Afghanistan is a bit absurd, since that is the wrong question. The minimal troop level Biden was left with was unsustainable as more troops would have been needed once the US showed the taliban it was violating the agreement by staying in the country long term. Under that scenario, loss of life would likely have been far greater than the tragic loss of 13 troops.

    the right question is - would staying in Afghanistan or increasing troops change anything regarding the outcome of the 20 year war. That is what Biden was adamant about regarding the advice from his generals, until Stephanopolous caught him when he was apparently furious about all the second guessing that everyone other than the president gets to make. Whether they told him to keep troops there is irrelevant. Yes the generals ALWAYS want more troops.

    Bottom line, leaving was the right call that 70% of the country agreed with, until things got messy. And now many of the 70% are making the wrong interpretation that getting out immediately was not safer to the lives of American troops. But that’s the luxury second guessers get to make that POTUS does not. Yes Biden should clean up his comment to ABC News, but that was 100% the wrong question
    I never mentioned anything about whether he should have kept troops there or not. not sure where you got that. all I mentioned was whether he or his generals were lying about how it went down, or whether he was incompetent because he couldn't recall such a crucial detail of the orders. 


    “ had trump lied to get us out of that failed war” was the reason I cited the both sides comparing this to trump is unreasonable. I agree Biden needs to clean up his answer to the troop question. Its clear to me when he was talking to ABC News and answered that question he was angry and my opinion is he clearly misspoke. I recall his earlier explanation when he decided to withdraw, he posed an entirely different question to his generals- will keeping troops change the outcome of the war. IMO that’s the key question. And no general said yes to that.

    In this context, his answer about being advised to keep troops there is irrelevant because he made his decision on a completely different criteria and was upfront and honest about that, and generals always want more troops in harms way. I don’t think he nor the generals are lying, it’s the media is catching them in different questions .
  • And it didn’t start with POOTWH. Shrub lied us into Iraq, remember “Mission Accomplished?” And 22,000,000 missing emails? Who was held accountable? Biden lies about getting the US out of a failed war, oh the horror!
    had trump lied to get us out of that failed war, and US service members died during the pullout, you'd be losing your shit. 

    and honestly, i was less concerned about the potential that he lied; more the potential that he "didn't recall". recalling things like that is pretty important. 
    I’m ecstatic we’re out. POOTWH could have done it while he was in office and been my hero. Instead, he pulled a shrub. Both Obama and Biden called their bluff and repubs lost their shit. Same-same. Just like the debt ceiling. And immigration. And covid. It’s all same-same.
    HAHAHAH right. 
    I would have given him credit but instead he chose to remain the shit stain on humanity that some of us know he is. 
    I'd be interested to see your posts dating back to around the time Trump pulled out of Syria. 
    Feel free to research them as they should still be there.
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  • Lerxst1992Lerxst1992 Posts: 4,690
    static111 said:
    nicknyr15 said:
    nicknyr15 said:
    And it didn’t start with POOTWH. Shrub lied us into Iraq, remember “Mission Accomplished?” And 22,000,000 missing emails? Who was held accountable? Biden lies about getting the US out of a failed war, oh the horror!
    The lies Didn’t start with Bush either (I’m guessing that’s shrub?). “I did not have sexual relations with that girl”. 
    Oh, the horror! If I recall, Clinton was impeached.
    So was Trump. Taking advantage of young female interns I guess isn’t that bad, judging from your oh the horror comment. 
    If you think a 22 year old is a “girl” and wasn’t a consenting adult during the “affair,” okay, I guess? It’s about the level of outrage and degree to which an inappropriate relationship was investigated and a POTUS was impeached and yet the other side excuses and nominates snd elects an admitted pussy grabber. See? Same-same.

    Why some can’t admit that is beyond me. It’s about the degrees of wrong and the degrees of accountability. But hey, same-same. So Dems should start playing that way.
    you once called me a woman-hating misogynist for saying something less offensive than this (that I didn't support Hillary or something along those lines). 

    Clinton was accused by how many women? and he gets a pass?

    unreal. 
    How many women? “Gets a pass?” Did you miss the word “inappropriate?”

    An investigation that started out as a land deal and resulted in a perjury charge? But hey, same-same.
    no one is equating them but you. 
    We aren't allowed to criticize Dems until they are as awful as some republicans, at least that is what i think the rule is?
    static111 said:
    nicknyr15 said:
    nicknyr15 said:
    And it didn’t start with POOTWH. Shrub lied us into Iraq, remember “Mission Accomplished?” And 22,000,000 missing emails? Who was held accountable? Biden lies about getting the US out of a failed war, oh the horror!
    The lies Didn’t start with Bush either (I’m guessing that’s shrub?). “I did not have sexual relations with that girl”. 
    Oh, the horror! If I recall, Clinton was impeached.
    So was Trump. Taking advantage of young female interns I guess isn’t that bad, judging from your oh the horror comment. 
    If you think a 22 year old is a “girl” and wasn’t a consenting adult during the “affair,” okay, I guess? It’s about the level of outrage and degree to which an inappropriate relationship was investigated and a POTUS was impeached and yet the other side excuses and nominates snd elects an admitted pussy grabber. See? Same-same.

    Why some can’t admit that is beyond me. It’s about the degrees of wrong and the degrees of accountability. But hey, same-same. So Dems should start playing that way.
    you once called me a woman-hating misogynist for saying something less offensive than this (that I didn't support Hillary or something along those lines). 

    Clinton was accused by how many women? and he gets a pass?

    unreal. 
    How many women? “Gets a pass?” Did you miss the word “inappropriate?”

    An investigation that started out as a land deal and resulted in a perjury charge? But hey, same-same.
    no one is equating them but you. 
    We aren't allowed to criticize Dems until they are as awful as some republicans, at least that is what i think the rule is?


    It’s not about criticizing Dems. Trump has played us to think the media is pro dem, and the media often slants the story to serve itself and not the truth to the story.

    Biden made his decision on a completely different criteria , not whether generals told him to keep troops there. That’s an absurd question, generals always want more troops there.

    And the key testimony bearing this out from yesterday is being ignored by almost everyone. Imagine a day where I am the one supporting Sen Warren, but congrats to her-


    “ Warren soon followed by saying, “I believe that leaving a force behind would have necessitated that force staying indefinitely,” to which Milley replied “That’s right.” And after the lawmaker said keeping U.S. forces in Afghanistan would expose them “to unnecessary risk or harm,” Milley also agreed: “That’s exactly right.”

    NatSec Daily asked Warren about the exchange. “Yesterday I asked General Milley whether leaving a couple of thousand U.S. troops behind in Afghanistan for a few more months would have changed the outcome there -- and he said the outcome would have been the same. In fact, it only would have served to put more American lives at risk,” she told us. “Instead, Joe Biden made the courageous decision to finally leave Afghanistan and followed the military's guidance on how to go about that withdrawal."

    .
  • HughFreakingDillonHughFreakingDillon WinnipegPosts: 32,023
    The faux outrage or desirability for accountability only comes out when its one side. Has anyone answered Mickey's question yet? How's that border "crisis." Bottom line? dems are held accountable, way more so than repubs. Why can't you acknowledge that? Everything is same-same?

    Did Biden lie, referring to your post of this morning?HughFreakingDillon said:
    Listen to the righteous. Holy crap, relitagating the Clinton years. POOTWH may very well be the repubs nominee in 2024 and 65M+ voters will likely vote for him. Some here can’t see the difference in that? Talk about blinders.
    some of us have the ability to talk about different things in different situations without it always being a comparable to something else. 

    funny, for the last 4 years, anytime said anything about hillary, your response was a mocking "buh buh buh hillary", but now that a dem is in office, any criticism levied at him is met with a "buh buh buh trump".  
    Buh, buh, buh, buh Hillary released 20 years of tax returns. Buh, buh, buh, buh Hillary and the CGF were investigated and nothing came from it. Buh, buh, buh, buh Hillary and Benghazi. Buh, buh, buh Hillary and White Water. Same with Rose Firm billing records. And Vince Foster. And her emails. Tell me again, how outraged I should be over Hillary's malfeascance. And you want me to believe that somehow both sides are the same and that they are or should be held accountable. Delusional.

    Criticism, in my view should be justifiable and warranted. Not made up faux outrage. A lot of that here lately and for some, a hell of a lot less of it when it was wholly justifiable and backed with facts. To the bold, in the absence of facts.

    Did Biden lie about what his generals told him?
    stop putting words in people's mouths. 

    i never said both sides were the same. 
    i never said, nor even came close to implying, that i'm outraged. I used the word "concerning". it that "outrage" to you? we should be questioning our elected representatives, whether they fall under your version of justifiable (AKA: did trump do worse?) or not. 

    I hold people accountable on their own actions based on the merits of what they've done, not on some "but he did it first/worse" childish sliding scale. 
    Did Biden lie about what his general(s) told him, seeing it concerns you so very much?
    I don't know. do you?

    and again, I said I was less concerned if he lied than if he couldn't recall. 

    can't wait for you to ask me this same question in 6 months. 
    Can't wait for you to be "concerned" when Biden can't recall something he said or was told, tomorrow.
    everyone should be concerned if their CIC can't recall giving a major military order or not. not only if it's trump. 
    I think I'll move to Australia


  • gimmesometruth27gimmesometruth27 St. Fuckin LouisPosts: 20,002
    JB16057 said:
    mrussel1 said:
    Interesting that we're not entertaining the possibility that his generals are the ones playing both sides of the coin.  
    If this is true, do you think Biden would take immediate action against them? There are many upset over the handling of Afghanistan and if his own generals are lying about what actually happened, Biden should get rid of them right now or at least discipline them. They all know what Biden said publicly and they are contradicting that. If he doesn't do something right now, what are they willing to do next?

    How many employees can tell lies about their boss and get away unscathed?
    well michael flynn was convicted and pardoned. maybe some of these generals are maga with an axe to grind against biden?
    On a side note, Michael Flynn is under the assumption the government is putting the covid vaccine in salad dressing.

    https://www.insider.com/michael-flynn-pushing-conspiracy-theory-covid19-vaccines-in-salad-dressing-2021-9
    well the joke is on the pro vaxxers. maga won't eat salads because they are not made out of red meat.
    There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man; true nobility is being superior to your former self.- Hemingway

    "Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
  • HughFreakingDillonHughFreakingDillon WinnipegPosts: 32,023
    Hidden Vaccine Ranch. 
    I think I'll move to Australia


  • mrussel1mrussel1 Posts: 25,442
    static111 said:
    nicknyr15 said:
    nicknyr15 said:
    And it didn’t start with POOTWH. Shrub lied us into Iraq, remember “Mission Accomplished?” And 22,000,000 missing emails? Who was held accountable? Biden lies about getting the US out of a failed war, oh the horror!
    The lies Didn’t start with Bush either (I’m guessing that’s shrub?). “I did not have sexual relations with that girl”. 
    Oh, the horror! If I recall, Clinton was impeached.
    So was Trump. Taking advantage of young female interns I guess isn’t that bad, judging from your oh the horror comment. 
    If you think a 22 year old is a “girl” and wasn’t a consenting adult during the “affair,” okay, I guess? It’s about the level of outrage and degree to which an inappropriate relationship was investigated and a POTUS was impeached and yet the other side excuses and nominates snd elects an admitted pussy grabber. See? Same-same.

    Why some can’t admit that is beyond me. It’s about the degrees of wrong and the degrees of accountability. But hey, same-same. So Dems should start playing that way.
    you once called me a woman-hating misogynist for saying something less offensive than this (that I didn't support Hillary or something along those lines). 

    Clinton was accused by how many women? and he gets a pass?

    unreal. 
    How many women? “Gets a pass?” Did you miss the word “inappropriate?”

    An investigation that started out as a land deal and resulted in a perjury charge? But hey, same-same.
    no one is equating them but you. 
    We aren't allowed to criticize Dems until they are as awful as some republicans, at least that is what i think the rule is?
    static111 said:
    nicknyr15 said:
    nicknyr15 said:
    And it didn’t start with POOTWH. Shrub lied us into Iraq, remember “Mission Accomplished?” And 22,000,000 missing emails? Who was held accountable? Biden lies about getting the US out of a failed war, oh the horror!
    The lies Didn’t start with Bush either (I’m guessing that’s shrub?). “I did not have sexual relations with that girl”. 
    Oh, the horror! If I recall, Clinton was impeached.
    So was Trump. Taking advantage of young female interns I guess isn’t that bad, judging from your oh the horror comment. 
    If you think a 22 year old is a “girl” and wasn’t a consenting adult during the “affair,” okay, I guess? It’s about the level of outrage and degree to which an inappropriate relationship was investigated and a POTUS was impeached and yet the other side excuses and nominates snd elects an admitted pussy grabber. See? Same-same.

    Why some can’t admit that is beyond me. It’s about the degrees of wrong and the degrees of accountability. But hey, same-same. So Dems should start playing that way.
    you once called me a woman-hating misogynist for saying something less offensive than this (that I didn't support Hillary or something along those lines). 

    Clinton was accused by how many women? and he gets a pass?

    unreal. 
    How many women? “Gets a pass?” Did you miss the word “inappropriate?”

    An investigation that started out as a land deal and resulted in a perjury charge? But hey, same-same.
    no one is equating them but you. 
    We aren't allowed to criticize Dems until they are as awful as some republicans, at least that is what i think the rule is?


    It’s not about criticizing Dems. Trump has played us to think the media is pro dem, and the media often slants the story to serve itself and not the truth to the story.

    Biden made his decision on a completely different criteria , not whether generals told him to keep troops there. That’s an absurd question, generals always want more troops there.

    And the key testimony bearing this out from yesterday is being ignored by almost everyone. Imagine a day where I am the one supporting Sen Warren, but congrats to her-


    “ Warren soon followed by saying, “I believe that leaving a force behind would have necessitated that force staying indefinitely,” to which Milley replied “That’s right.” And after the lawmaker said keeping U.S. forces in Afghanistan would expose them “to unnecessary risk or harm,” Milley also agreed: “That’s exactly right.”

    NatSec Daily asked Warren about the exchange. “Yesterday I asked General Milley whether leaving a couple of thousand U.S. troops behind in Afghanistan for a few more months would have changed the outcome there -- and he said the outcome would have been the same. In fact, it only would have served to put more American lives at risk,” she told us. “Instead, Joe Biden made the courageous decision to finally leave Afghanistan and followed the military's guidance on how to go about that withdrawal."

    .
    Exactly right.  Leaving troops either delays the inevitable or leads you another buildup.  Both scenarios put more troops in danger. 
  • The faux outrage or desirability for accountability only comes out when its one side. Has anyone answered Mickey's question yet? How's that border "crisis." Bottom line? dems are held accountable, way more so than repubs. Why can't you acknowledge that? Everything is same-same?

    Did Biden lie, referring to your post of this morning?HughFreakingDillon said:
    Listen to the righteous. Holy crap, relitagating the Clinton years. POOTWH may very well be the repubs nominee in 2024 and 65M+ voters will likely vote for him. Some here can’t see the difference in that? Talk about blinders.
    some of us have the ability to talk about different things in different situations without it always being a comparable to something else. 

    funny, for the last 4 years, anytime said anything about hillary, your response was a mocking "buh buh buh hillary", but now that a dem is in office, any criticism levied at him is met with a "buh buh buh trump".  
    Buh, buh, buh, buh Hillary released 20 years of tax returns. Buh, buh, buh, buh Hillary and the CGF were investigated and nothing came from it. Buh, buh, buh, buh Hillary and Benghazi. Buh, buh, buh Hillary and White Water. Same with Rose Firm billing records. And Vince Foster. And her emails. Tell me again, how outraged I should be over Hillary's malfeascance. And you want me to believe that somehow both sides are the same and that they are or should be held accountable. Delusional.

    Criticism, in my view should be justifiable and warranted. Not made up faux outrage. A lot of that here lately and for some, a hell of a lot less of it when it was wholly justifiable and backed with facts. To the bold, in the absence of facts.

    Did Biden lie about what his generals told him?
    stop putting words in people's mouths. 

    i never said both sides were the same. 
    i never said, nor even came close to implying, that i'm outraged. I used the word "concerning". it that "outrage" to you? we should be questioning our elected representatives, whether they fall under your version of justifiable (AKA: did trump do worse?) or not. 

    I hold people accountable on their own actions based on the merits of what they've done, not on some "but he did it first/worse" childish sliding scale. 
    Did Biden lie about what his general(s) told him, seeing it concerns you so very much?
    I don't know. do you?

    and again, I said I was less concerned if he lied than if he couldn't recall. 

    can't wait for you to ask me this same question in 6 months. 
    Can't wait for you to be "concerned" when Biden can't recall something he said or was told, tomorrow.
    everyone should be concerned if their CIC can't recall giving a major military order or not. not only if it's trump. 
    It wasn’t about “giving a major military order.” It’s allegedly about what his general(s) told him about the consequences of a troop withdrawal would be. “President Biden, do you recall ordering the troops withdrawn from Afghanistan?” President Biden, “no.” Is that what went down? FFS.
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  • Lerxst1992Lerxst1992 Posts: 4,690
    A little perspective for those believing leaving 2000 troops would have been the safer choice and also why Biden does not always “trust the generals.” Worth the five minute read….



    https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2021/09/biden-afghanistan-exit-troops-milley.html
  • I was pretty disgusted with what I heard of the senate questioning the generals.  The lack of human decency was pretty appalling.  I guess when you have lawyers that become politicians, that's what you get. ;)

    It is pretty absurd to look at Afghanistan over such small time frames.  So much over 20 years and it all effects it all.  The convenient memory loss of some of those senators as to the last 20 years is crazy.   

    From what I heard and previously knew, it seems to me that Biden followed the advice of his military generals once he made the decision to pull the troups out.  I still have some questions as to why everything seemed so rushed and unprepared...why are there americans left behind?  The reality is they were told long ago and should have been prepared to leave, but it's more complicated than that for some.  Some have family members that they would have had to leave behind...so they chose to stay until that can hopefully be worked out.

    As for Biden, in a normal time I am no fan of the man.  But he was a necessary evil for me to combat the pure true evil of the past admin.  On Afghanistan I think he likely made the right overall call with some questionable details.  I do think his posturing about the success of the withdrawal is pure Biden the politician and he is not the straight shooter he pretends to be.  I think mostly he was dealt a pretty bad hand by previous admins...including his own as VP.  And I think no matter what happened there would have been republican senators that would forget history and context and just rail on the liberal president.  That said, I already knew Joe was a politician and would lie and posture as well.  He has a long documented history of it...it's who he is not just what he does for a living.  But for all of the things to be screaming about, the repubs have little to no basis here.

    It's amazing to me that we can have the senators getting into the details of this withdrawal about 1 month after and we are still waiting for the same kind of investigation of the Jan 6th attack on the US Government.  I think we all know why (cause they already know the answer to all the questions and they don;t want to have to live with it).
    hippiemom = goodness
  • Well said, Cincy. 
  • Remember when it was dems that hated the military? From Letter From an American:

    But that did not reflect the questioning of the Republicans on the committee. They focused not on finding out about the failures—or successes—of our time in Afghanistan, but on attacking Milley himself. Washington Post columnist Dana Milbank noted that the Republicans “assassinated his character and impugned his patriotism, accusing him of aiding the enemy and of placing his own vanity before the lives of the men and women serving under him.” Milley explained that recent reports of his having communicated with his Chinese counterpart to assure him the U.S. would not attack in the last day's of Trump's term were incomplete: he was authorized to do so by law, did so with the knowledge and advice of Esper and other administration officials, and made the calls with a significant number of people in the room.

    Nonetheless, Republicans berated him, often not permitting him to respond. They seemed to be following the pattern established at hearings during the Trump administration of creating sound bites for later right-wing media stories. In this case, though, there is a deeper story: they are continuing the right-wing media’s undermining of the military officers who defended our Constitution.

    The Republicans accused Milley of working with “the Chinese Communist Party” and leaking “private conversations with the president.” Senator Josh Hawley (R-MO) suggested that Milley was personally responsible for the deaths of the 13 personnel killed in the last days of the Afghanistan evacuation and told him: “General, I think you should resign.”

    It’s hard to miss the mechanics and narratives being set up for 2022.

    “I have served this Nation for 42 years,” Milley wrote in his statement. “I’ve spent years in combat and buried a lot of my troops who died while defending this country. My loyalty to this Nation, its people, and the Constitution hasn’t changed and will never change as long as I have a breath to give. My loyalty is absolute.”
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  • JB16057JB16057 Posts: 861
    A little perspective for those believing leaving 2000 troops would have been the safer choice and also why Biden does not always “trust the generals.” Worth the five minute read….



    https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2021/09/biden-afghanistan-exit-troops-milley.html
    No one here is arguing this point at all. Was Biden lying when he said no one told him they should leave troops behind or were the generals? That is the issue. Biden says the buck stops with him but if that was true, there would be consequences for the generals. They were under oath, correct? If they are lying, wouldn't that be illegal?

    If the generals did tell Biden this, why would Biden skirt around the issue by saying he didn't recall? If the buck stops with him, he would be proud to say that as Commander-in-Chief, it was his call and you're welcome America. This was one of the biggest issues he's had to deal with as President and either he can't recall or the generals in charge of our military are lying. Either way, as Commander-in-Chief, the buck stops with him but that obviously doesn't mean much when he said that.

  • The JugglerThe Juggler Behind that bush over there.Posts: 42,657
    A little perspective for those believing leaving 2000 troops would have been the safer choice and also why Biden does not always “trust the generals.” Worth the five minute read….



    https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2021/09/biden-afghanistan-exit-troops-milley.html
    Yeah I've said this a few times. The mistake was the Trump admin putting the wheels in motion in the first place. It boxed the new administration into a lose lose situation. 
    chinese-happy.jpg
  • JB16057JB16057 Posts: 861
    A little perspective for those believing leaving 2000 troops would have been the safer choice and also why Biden does not always “trust the generals.” Worth the five minute read….



    https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2021/09/biden-afghanistan-exit-troops-milley.html
    Yeah I've said this a few times. The mistake was the Trump admin putting the wheels in motion in the first place. It boxed the new administration into a lose lose situation. 
    Trump thought he was going to be president in 2021 so it wasn't like he set up the new administration up for failure because it wasn't his administration. 

    It was going to be a lose lose situation no matter when we pulled out. It has been a lose lose situation for years before Trump was ever in office or even decided to run for president.

    What came first? Chicken or the egg?

    Biden had the balls to follow through with it which I'll give him credit for. Something tells me that if Trump was president and this same outcome happened, the left would be losing their shit. Your comment backs up my suspicion perfectly. "The mistake was the Trump admin".
  • gimmesometruth27gimmesometruth27 St. Fuckin LouisPosts: 20,002
    JB16057 said:
    A little perspective for those believing leaving 2000 troops would have been the safer choice and also why Biden does not always “trust the generals.” Worth the five minute read….



    https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2021/09/biden-afghanistan-exit-troops-milley.html
    Yeah I've said this a few times. The mistake was the Trump admin putting the wheels in motion in the first place. It boxed the new administration into a lose lose situation. 
    Trump thought he was going to be president in 2021 so it wasn't like he set up the new administration up for failure because it wasn't his administration. 

    It was going to be a lose lose situation no matter when we pulled out. It has been a lose lose situation for years before Trump was ever in office or even decided to run for president.

    What came first? Chicken or the egg?

    Biden had the balls to follow through with it which I'll give him credit for. Something tells me that if Trump was president and this same outcome happened, the left would be losing their shit. Your comment backs up my suspicion perfectly. "The mistake was the Trump admin".
    trump still thinks he is going to be president in 2021. still. 11 months after the election.

    trump wanted all the troops out by january 2021. knowing that if he were still president he could just extend it indefinitely. he made the deal and left biden to make the tough but correct decision. 

    everyone has some blame in this. 

    but miss me with the fact that biden lied on this when the former guy lied every fucking day he was in office about every single part of his job.
    There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man; true nobility is being superior to your former self.- Hemingway

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  • The JugglerThe Juggler Behind that bush over there.Posts: 42,657
    Trump thought he was going to be president in 2021? lol Gee, if only that coup would've worked out like they planned it. Too bad we still have democratic elections in this country. 

    The Trump admin let 5,000 Taliban fighters out of prison in 2020, they set up a really short time frame of which for us to leave, and then did not cooperate fully during the transition period with the incoming administration. So Biden's choices were to start fighting the Taliban again and prolong this two decade war or rip the fucking band aid off and get out. Of those two choices, I think he made the correct one.

    But hindsight being 2020, I don't see the problem with leaving a small troop presence there moving forward. Trump was the one who surrendered to the Taliban and took that possibility off the table. The Biden admin clearly could've handled things better, but it was a lose lose proposition for them. 
    chinese-happy.jpg
  • gimmesometruth27gimmesometruth27 St. Fuckin LouisPosts: 20,002
    Trump thought he was going to be president in 2021? lol Gee, if only that coup would've worked out like they planned it. Too bad we still have democratic elections in this country. 

    The Trump admin let 5,000 Taliban fighters out of prison in 2020, they set up a really short time frame of which for us to leave, and then did not cooperate fully during the transition period with the incoming administration. So Biden's choices were to start fighting the Taliban again and prolong this two decade war or rip the fucking band aid off and get out. Of those two choices, I think he made the correct one.

    But hindsight being 2020, I don't see the problem with leaving a small troop presence there moving forward. Trump was the one who surrendered to the Taliban and took that possibility off the table. The Biden admin clearly could've handled things better, but it was a lose lose proposition for them. 
    i agree. this was a war we decided to stop fighting. it is a loss because we did not win, and we could not win. we stopped fighting and withdrew. 

    hopefully the government learned something from this. but given the short memory of americans, we will be in another 10 year war over there within the next 5 years.
    There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man; true nobility is being superior to your former self.- Hemingway

    "Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
  • mrussel1mrussel1 Posts: 25,442
    JB16057 said:
    A little perspective for those believing leaving 2000 troops would have been the safer choice and also why Biden does not always “trust the generals.” Worth the five minute read….



    https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2021/09/biden-afghanistan-exit-troops-milley.html
    Yeah I've said this a few times. The mistake was the Trump admin putting the wheels in motion in the first place. It boxed the new administration into a lose lose situation. 
    Trump thought he was going to be president in 2021 so it wasn't like he set up the new administration up for failure because it wasn't his administration. 

    It was going to be a lose lose situation no matter when we pulled out. It has been a lose lose situation for years before Trump was ever in office or even decided to run for president.

    What came first? Chicken or the egg?

    Biden had the balls to follow through with it which I'll give him credit for. Something tells me that if Trump was president and this same outcome happened, the left would be losing their shit. Your comment backs up my suspicion perfectly. "The mistake was the Trump admin".
    Yes, because the media lost their shit on Syria.  But to be fair, the media lost their shit in both situations.  It was the GOP that didn't lose their shit on Syria, while the D's did.  This time it is the opposite.. So... looks like the lamestream media are the only ones with integrity. 
  • The JugglerThe Juggler Behind that bush over there.Posts: 42,657
    Trump thought he was going to be president in 2021? lol Gee, if only that coup would've worked out like they planned it. Too bad we still have democratic elections in this country. 

    The Trump admin let 5,000 Taliban fighters out of prison in 2020, they set up a really short time frame of which for us to leave, and then did not cooperate fully during the transition period with the incoming administration. So Biden's choices were to start fighting the Taliban again and prolong this two decade war or rip the fucking band aid off and get out. Of those two choices, I think he made the correct one.

    But hindsight being 2020, I don't see the problem with leaving a small troop presence there moving forward. Trump was the one who surrendered to the Taliban and took that possibility off the table. The Biden admin clearly could've handled things better, but it was a lose lose proposition for them. 
    i agree. this was a war we decided to stop fighting. it is a loss because we did not win, and we could not win. we stopped fighting and withdrew. 

    hopefully the government learned something from this. but given the short memory of americans, we will be in another 10 year war over there within the next 5 years.
    I just love the "Trump thought he was going to be president in 2021" line as if there was no way he could lose. Like he just ignored all public and internal polling and just assumed his coup would work if he actually did lose the election.

    Scary stuff. 
    chinese-happy.jpg
  • Trump thought he was going to be president in 2021? lol Gee, if only that coup would've worked out like they planned it. Too bad we still have democratic elections in this country. 

    The Trump admin let 5,000 Taliban fighters out of prison in 2020, they set up a really short time frame of which for us to leave, and then did not cooperate fully during the transition period with the incoming administration. So Biden's choices were to start fighting the Taliban again and prolong this two decade war or rip the fucking band aid off and get out. Of those two choices, I think he made the correct one.

    But hindsight being 2020, I don't see the problem with leaving a small troop presence there moving forward. Trump was the one who surrendered to the Taliban and took that possibility off the table. The Biden admin clearly could've handled things better, but it was a lose lose proposition for them. 
    i agree. this was a war we decided to stop fighting. it is a loss because we did not win, and we could not win. we stopped fighting and withdrew. 

    hopefully the government learned something from this. but given the short memory of americans, we will be in another 10 year war over there within the next 5 years.
    I just love the "Trump thought he was going to be president in 2021" line as if there was no way he could lose. Like he just ignored all public and internal polling and just assumed his coup would work if he actually did lose the election.

    Scary stuff. 
    The scary stuff is that they’re laying all the requisite groundwork to be successful next time, whether it’s POOTWH or another repub like Deathsantis.
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  • The JugglerThe Juggler Behind that bush over there.Posts: 42,657
    Trump thought he was going to be president in 2021? lol Gee, if only that coup would've worked out like they planned it. Too bad we still have democratic elections in this country. 

    The Trump admin let 5,000 Taliban fighters out of prison in 2020, they set up a really short time frame of which for us to leave, and then did not cooperate fully during the transition period with the incoming administration. So Biden's choices were to start fighting the Taliban again and prolong this two decade war or rip the fucking band aid off and get out. Of those two choices, I think he made the correct one.

    But hindsight being 2020, I don't see the problem with leaving a small troop presence there moving forward. Trump was the one who surrendered to the Taliban and took that possibility off the table. The Biden admin clearly could've handled things better, but it was a lose lose proposition for them. 
    i agree. this was a war we decided to stop fighting. it is a loss because we did not win, and we could not win. we stopped fighting and withdrew. 

    hopefully the government learned something from this. but given the short memory of americans, we will be in another 10 year war over there within the next 5 years.
    I just love the "Trump thought he was going to be president in 2021" line as if there was no way he could lose. Like he just ignored all public and internal polling and just assumed his coup would work if he actually did lose the election.

    Scary stuff. 
    The scary stuff is that they’re laying all the requisite groundwork to be successful next time, whether it’s POOTWH or another repub like Deathsantis.
    I know, I know. It's all equally scary!
    chinese-happy.jpg
  • dankinddankind I am not your foot. Posts: 20,339
    I'm not scared. 

    There are other countries.
    I SAW PEARL JAM
  • dankind said:
    I'm not scared. 

    There are other countries.
    Passport valid?
    09/15/1998, Mansfield, MA; 08/29/00 08/30/00, Mansfield, MA; 07/02/03, 07/03/03, Mansfield, MA; 09/28/04, 09/29/04, Boston, MA; 09/22/05, Halifax, NS; 05/24/06, 05/25/06, Boston, MA; 07/22/06, 07/23/06, Gorge, WA; 06/29/08, 06/30/08, Mansfield, MA; 08/18/08, O2 London, UK; 10/30/09, 10/31/09, Philadelphia, PA; 05/15/10, Hartford, CT; 05/17/10, Boston, MA; 05/20/10, 05/21/10, NY, NY; 06/22/10, Dublin, IRE; 06/23/10, Northern Ireland; 09/03/11, 09/04/11, Alpine Valley, WI; 09/11/11, 09/12/11, Toronto, Ont; 09/14/11, Ottawa, Ont; 09/15/11, Hamilton, Ont; 07/02/2012, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/04/2012 & 07/05/2012, Berlin, Germany; 07/07/2012, Stockholm, Sweden; 09/30/2012, Missoula, MT; 07/16/2013, London, Ont; 07/19/2013, Chicago, IL; 10/15/2013 & 10/16/2013, Worcester, MA; 10/21/2013 & 10/22/2013, Philadelphia, PA; 10/25/2013, Hartford, CT; 11/29/2013, Portland, OR; 11/30/2013, Spokane, WA; 12/04/2013, Vancouver, BC; 12/06/2013, Seattle, WA; 10/03/2014, St. Louis. MO; 10/22/2014, Denver, CO; 10/26/2015, New York, NY; 04/23/2016, New Orleans, LA; 04/28/2016 & 04/29/2016, Philadelphia, PA; 05/01/2016 & 05/02/2016, New York, NY; 05/08/2016, Ottawa, Ont.; 05/10/2016 & 05/12/2016, Toronto, Ont.; 08/05/2016 & 08/07/2016, Boston, MA; 08/20/2016 & 08/22/2016, Chicago, IL; 07/01/2018, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/03/2018, Krakow, Poland; 07/05/2018, Berlin, Germany; 09/02/2018 & 09/04/2018, Boston, MA;

    "If you're looking down on someone, it better be to extend them a hand to lift them up."

    Libtardaplorable©. And proud of it.

    Brilliantati©
  • static111static111 Posts: 3,577
    dankind said:
    I'm not scared. 

    There are other countries.
    There are other worlds
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