I'll give Biden credit for ending this pointless war but why did he feel the need to lie about what his military advisors were telling him?
does it REALLY matter at this point? we are out of there. leaving 2500 troops there would not have changed anything. the afghan army was going to quit since day one.
how do you know the advisor is not lying? does a military advisor suddenly have more credibility than the chief executive now? i guess it depends on who the chief executive is.
"You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry." - Lincoln
I'll give Biden credit for ending this pointless war but why did he feel the need to lie about what his military advisors were telling him?
does it REALLY matter at this point? we are out of there. leaving 2500 troops there would not have changed anything. the afghan army was going to quit since day one.
how do you know the advisor is not lying? does a military advisor suddenly have more credibility than the chief executive now? i guess it depends on who the chief executive is.
well i think it kinda does. you want a major operation to not be a massive misunderstanding, or either the generals or the CIC lying about it. if it was trump, i'd be certain he was lying. but honestly, that's a pretty big detail that he should recall, and if he doesn't, that's concerning.
"Oh Canada...you're beautiful when you're drunk" -EV 8/14/93
It’s politics. Get out and deal with the political fall out after the troops are out as opposed to “being honest” and getting ripped to shreds and pressured by politics to stay in. We’re out of that colossal waste finally.
25,000+ lies over 4 years of POOTWH and suddenly we care about the “truth?” Give me a break.
Republicans on the Senate Armed Services Committee pointed to the testimony Tuesday by Gen. Mark Milley, chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, as evidence that President Joe Biden had been untruthful when, in a television interview last month, he suggested the military had not urged him to keep troops in Afghanistan.
Milley refused to say what advice he gave Biden last spring when Biden was considering whether to comply with an agreement the Trump administration had made with the Taliban to reduce the American troop presence to zero by May 2021, ending a U.S. war that began in October 2001. Testifying alongside Milley, Defense Secretary Lloyd Austin also refused to reveal his advice to Biden.
Austin and Milley are scheduled to appear Wednesday before the House Armed Services Committee to review the war.
Milley told the Senate committee, when pressed Tuesday, that it had been his personal opinion that at least 2,500 U.S. troops were needed to guard against a collapse of the Kabul government and a return to Taliban rule.
Defying U.S. intelligence assessments, the Afghan government and its U.S.-trained army collapsed in mid-August, allowing the Taliban, which had ruled the country from 1996 to 2001, to capture Kabul with what Milley described as a couple of hundred men on motorcycles, without a shot being fired. That triggered a frantic U.S. effort to evacuate American civilians, Afghan allies and others from Kabul airport.
Gen. Frank McKenzie, who as head of Central Command was overseeing U.S. troops in Afghanistan, said he shared Milley’s view that keeping a residual force there could have kept the Kabul government intact.
“I recommended that we maintain 2,500 troops in Afghanistan, and I also recommended early in the fall of 2020 that we maintain 4,500 at that time, those were my personal views,” McKenzie said. “I also had a view that the withdrawal of those forces would lead inevitably to the collapse of the Afghan military forces and eventually the Afghan government.”
The six-hour Senate hearing marked the start of what is likely to be an extended congressional review of the U.S. failures in Afghanistan. The length and depth of the hearing stood in contrast to years of limited congressional oversight of the war and the hundreds of billions of taxpayer dollars it consumed.
“The Republicans' sudden interest in Afghanistan is plain old politics,” said Sen. Elizabeth Warren, a Massachusetts Democrat, who supported Biden's decision to end U.S. involvement there.
The hearing at times was contentious, as Republicans sought to portray Biden as having ignored advice from military officers and mischaracterized the military options he was presented last spring and summer.
Several Republicans tried unsuccessfully to draw Milley, McKenzie and Austin into commenting on the truthfulness of Biden’s statement to ABC News on Aug. 18, three days after the Taliban took control of Kabul, that no senior military commander had recommended against a full troop withdrawal when it was under discussion in the first months of Biden’s term.
When asked in that interview whether military advisers had recommended keeping 2,500 troops in Afghanistan, Biden replied, “No. No one said that to me that I can recall." He also said the advice “was split.”
White House press secretary Jen Psaki said Tuesday that Biden was referring to having received a range of advice.
"Regardless of the advice, it’s his decision, he’s the commander in chief,” she said.
In a blunt assessment of a war that cost 2,461 American lives, Milley said the result was years in the making.
“Outcomes in a war like this, an outcome that is a strategic failure — the enemy is in charge in Kabul, there's no way else to describe that — that is a cumulative effect of 20 years,” he said, adding that lessons need to be learned, including whether the U.S. military made the Afghans overly dependent on American technology in a mistaken effort to make the Afghan army look like the American army.
Republican Sen. Tom Cotton of Arkansas asked Milley why he did not choose to resign after his advice was rejected.
Milley, who was appointed to his position as chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff by President Donald Trump and retained by Biden, said it was his responsibility to provide the commander in chief with his best advice.
“The president doesn't have to agree with that advice,” Milley said. “He doesn't have to make those decisions just because we are generals. And it would be an incredible act of political defiance for a commissioned officer to resign just because my advice was not taken."
Austin defended the military's execution of a frantic airlift from Kabul in August and asserted it will be “difficult but absolutely possible” to contain future threats from Afghanistan without troops on the ground.
Milley cited “a very real possibility” that al-Qaida or the Islamic State group's Afghanistan affiliate could reconstitute in Afghanistan under Taliban rule and present a terrorist threat to the United States in the next 12 to 36 months.
It was al-Qaida's use of Afghanistan as a base from which to plan and execute its attacks on the United States on Sept. 11, 2001, that triggered the U.S. invasion of Afghanistan a month later.
“And we must remember that the Taliban was and remains a terrorist organization and they still have not broken ties with al-Qaida,” Milley said. “I have no illusions who we are dealing with. It remains to be seen whether or not the Taliban can consolidate power or if the country will further fracture into civil war.”
Austin questioned decisions made over the 20-year course of the U.S. war in Afghanistan. In retrospect, he said, the American government may have put too much faith in its ability to build a viable Afghan government.
“We helped build a state, but we could not forge a nation,” he told the Senate committee. “The fact that the Afghan army we and our partners trained simply melted away – in many cases without firing a shot – took us all by surprise. It would be dishonest to claim otherwise.”
Asked why the United States did not foresee the rapid collapse of the Afghan army, Milley said that in his judgment the U.S. military lost its ability to see and understand the true condition of the Afghan forces when it ended the practice some years ago of having advisers alongside the Afghans on the battlefield.
“You can’t measure the human heart with a machine, you have to be there,” Milley said.
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
It’s politics. Get out and deal with the political fall out after the troops are out as opposed to “being honest” and getting ripped to shreds and pressured by politics to stay in. We’re out of that colossal waste finally.
25,000+ lies over 4 years of POOTWH and suddenly we care about the “truth?” Give me a break.
again, why does trump always have to be the new bar? we should be expecting more out of our political leaders than just "well at least he's not trump".
and we always cared about the truth, which is why trump's constant lies were a constant thing in the news and on here. you cared about it. now you don't?
I personally want the leader of the free world to recall if he gave a pretty important order to his military generals or not. and that has nothing to do with honesty, just competency.
"Oh Canada...you're beautiful when you're drunk" -EV 8/14/93
It’s politics. Get out and deal with the political fall out after the troops are out as opposed to “being honest” and getting ripped to shreds and pressured by politics to stay in. We’re out of that colossal waste finally.
25,000+ lies over 4 years of POOTWH and suddenly we care about the “truth?” Give me a break.
again, why does trump always have to be the new bar? we should be expecting more out of our political leaders than just "well at least he's not trump".
and we always cared about the truth, which is why trump's constant lies were a constant thing in the news and on here. you cared about it. now you don't?
I personally want the leader of the free world to recall if he gave a pretty important order to his military generals or not. and that has nothing to do with honesty, just competency.
From the Letter From an American:
In his statement, Milley
laid out the course of the war in Afghanistan. He noted that in 20 years there,
more than 800,000 U.S. military personnel served; 2,461 were killed in action,
20,698 were wounded, and countless others came home with internal scars. Milley
expressed his opinion that their service in Afghanistan prevented another
attack on America from terrorists based there.
Then Milley talked of our
exit from the country, emphasizing that it is a mistake to focus only on our
rushed exit in August. In 2011, we began a long-term drawdown of troops from
their peak of 97,000 U.S. troops and 41,000 NATO troops. On February 29, 2020,
when the Trump administration signed an agreement with the Taliban, there were
12,600 U.S. troops, 8,000 NATO troops, and 10,500 contractors in Afghanistan.
With that agreement, known as the Doha Agreement, we agreed to withdraw if the
Taliban met seven conditions that would lead to a deal between the Afghan
government and the Taliban, while we agreed to eight conditions.
Milley wrote that the
Taliban honored only one of its seven required conditions: it did not attack
U.S. personnel. It did not cut ties to al Qaeda, and it significantly
increased, rather than decreased, its attacks on Afghan civilians. Nonetheless,
in the 8 months after the agreement, “we reduced US military forces from 12,600
to 6,800, NATO forces from 8,000 to 5,400 and US contractors from 9,700 to
7,900….”
On November 9, 2020, six
days after the presidential election, Milley and then–Secretary of Defense Mark
Esper recommended stopping the withdrawal until the Taliban met the required
conditions. Two days later, on November 11, then-president Trump ordered the
military to withdraw all forces from Afghanistan by January 15, 2021.
Blindsided, military officers were able to talk Trump out of that rushed
timetable, but on November 17, Trump ordered Milley to reduce troop levels to
2,500 no later than January 15.
So, when President Biden
took office, only about 3,500 U.S. troops, 5,400 NATO troops, and 6,300 contractors
were still in Afghanistan, leaving him with the problem that he would have
either to leave altogether or to put in more troops in anticipation of resumed
hostilities with the Taliban. Biden ordered a review of the situation and
ultimately decided to withdraw from the country altogether.
Milley went on to explain
some of the issues that have preoccupied pundits. He said he saw no predictions
that the Afghan Army would melt away in 11 days. “The speed, scale and scope of
the collapse was a surprise.” He said that holding the Bagram air base would
have required 5,000–6,000 additional troops and that staying on after the
August 31 deadline would have required 15,000–20,000 more troops, who would
have faced significant risks, including the likelihood of casualties. “While it
was militarily feasible,” he wrote, “we assessed the cost to be extraordinarily
high…. Therefore, we unanimously recommended that the military mission be
transitioned on 31 August to a diplomatic mission in order to get out the
remaining American citizens.” In response to a question from Senator King,
Milley put it more clearly: “On the first of September, we were going to go to
war again with the Taliban. Of that there was no doubt.”
If Biden lied to avoid getting sucked in to remaining and then called weak for changing his mind due to political pressure, so be it. POOTWH isn't the new bar, he's the standard. Look at Moscow Mitchy Baby. You can't continue to take the "high road" and play by the rules when the other side doesn't have rules, a moral compass or anything that resembles fair play or doing what is right for the nation. So Biden lied about what his generals told him and made the decision he did. Impeach him.
It’s politics. Get out and deal with the political fall out after the troops are out as opposed to “being honest” and getting ripped to shreds and pressured by politics to stay in. We’re out of that colossal waste finally.
25,000+ lies over 4 years of POOTWH and suddenly we care about the “truth?” Give me a break.
again, why does trump always have to be the new bar? we should be expecting more out of our political leaders than just "well at least he's not trump".
and we always cared about the truth, which is why trump's constant lies were a constant thing in the news and on here. you cared about it. now you don't?
I personally want the leader of the free world to recall if he gave a pretty important order to his military generals or not. and that has nothing to do with honesty, just competency.
Biden is not a peacenik, so the fact that he didn't interpret or receive advice to keep 2500 would not surprise me. His history is such that he tends to error on the side of more military force. Don't discount that these generals play both sides of the fence as well. They would easily provide conflicting or vague advise in order to provide themselves cover.
I'm not saying that did or did not happen. I'm saying that just because these generals said what they said in front of congress doesn't mean it's exactly what happened. At the end of the day, I'm glad we're out. If we needed 2500 to 5k to hold the gov't together, well that is the permanent and minimum number. If the Taliban attacked, there would be some US casualties and we would end up escalating yet again.
well then all your previous outrage at trump constantly lying just went down the toilet. you might want to go back and edit about 7 thousand posts.
Yes. Only cared about the truth the last 4 years. Now it doesn’t matter. I guess politics has become like religion to a few. In no way shape or form can you call out your own. Sad.
It’s politics. Get out and deal with the political fall out after the troops are out as opposed to “being honest” and getting ripped to shreds and pressured by politics to stay in. We’re out of that colossal waste finally.
25,000+ lies over 4 years of POOTWH and suddenly we care about the “truth?” Give me a break.
again, why does trump always have to be the new bar? we should be expecting more out of our political leaders than just "well at least he's not trump".
and we always cared about the truth, which is why trump's constant lies were a constant thing in the news and on here. you cared about it. now you don't?
I personally want the leader of the free world to recall if he gave a pretty important order to his military generals or not. and that has nothing to do with honesty, just competency.
From the Letter From an American:
In his statement, Milley
laid out the course of the war in Afghanistan. He noted that in 20 years there,
more than 800,000 U.S. military personnel served; 2,461 were killed in action,
20,698 were wounded, and countless others came home with internal scars. Milley
expressed his opinion that their service in Afghanistan prevented another
attack on America from terrorists based there.
Then Milley talked of our
exit from the country, emphasizing that it is a mistake to focus only on our
rushed exit in August. In 2011, we began a long-term drawdown of troops from
their peak of 97,000 U.S. troops and 41,000 NATO troops. On February 29, 2020,
when the Trump administration signed an agreement with the Taliban, there were
12,600 U.S. troops, 8,000 NATO troops, and 10,500 contractors in Afghanistan.
With that agreement, known as the Doha Agreement, we agreed to withdraw if the
Taliban met seven conditions that would lead to a deal between the Afghan
government and the Taliban, while we agreed to eight conditions.
Milley wrote that the
Taliban honored only one of its seven required conditions: it did not attack
U.S. personnel. It did not cut ties to al Qaeda, and it significantly
increased, rather than decreased, its attacks on Afghan civilians. Nonetheless,
in the 8 months after the agreement, “we reduced US military forces from 12,600
to 6,800, NATO forces from 8,000 to 5,400 and US contractors from 9,700 to
7,900….”
On November 9, 2020, six
days after the presidential election, Milley and then–Secretary of Defense Mark
Esper recommended stopping the withdrawal until the Taliban met the required
conditions. Two days later, on November 11, then-president Trump ordered the
military to withdraw all forces from Afghanistan by January 15, 2021.
Blindsided, military officers were able to talk Trump out of that rushed
timetable, but on November 17, Trump ordered Milley to reduce troop levels to
2,500 no later than January 15.
So, when President Biden
took office, only about 3,500 U.S. troops, 5,400 NATO troops, and 6,300 contractors
were still in Afghanistan, leaving him with the problem that he would have
either to leave altogether or to put in more troops in anticipation of resumed
hostilities with the Taliban. Biden ordered a review of the situation and
ultimately decided to withdraw from the country altogether.
Milley went on to explain
some of the issues that have preoccupied pundits. He said he saw no predictions
that the Afghan Army would melt away in 11 days. “The speed, scale and scope of
the collapse was a surprise.” He said that holding the Bagram air base would
have required 5,000–6,000 additional troops and that staying on after the
August 31 deadline would have required 15,000–20,000 more troops, who would
have faced significant risks, including the likelihood of casualties. “While it
was militarily feasible,” he wrote, “we assessed the cost to be extraordinarily
high…. Therefore, we unanimously recommended that the military mission be
transitioned on 31 August to a diplomatic mission in order to get out the
remaining American citizens.” In response to a question from Senator King,
Milley put it more clearly: “On the first of September, we were going to go to
war again with the Taliban. Of that there was no doubt.”
If Biden lied to avoid getting sucked in to remaining and then called weak for changing his mind due to political pressure, so be it. POOTWH isn't the new bar, he's the standard. Look at Moscow Mitchy Baby. You can't continue to take the "high road" and play by the rules when the other side doesn't have rules, a moral compass or anything that resembles fair play or doing what is right for the nation. So Biden lied about what his generals told him and made the decision he did. Impeach him.
head of central command snd chaiman of joint chiefs plus sec def all have said their "personal" opinion was stay.
not one has said that was the advice given although article I posted sbove claimed Biden said he received mixed review....
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
well then all your previous outrage at trump constantly lying just went down the toilet. you might want to go back and edit about 7 thousand posts.
You need both political parties to be honest and both to be held accountable to the same standards for a functioning democracy. One political party has upped its dishonesty to unpresidented levels and is never held accountable. If you’re the only side that takes the high road, you eventually don’t have a road. And we’re watching it happen in real time and in slow motion. If everyone thinks the two parties are “same-same” then you might as well be “same-same.” Flush that.
And it didn’t start with POOTWH. Shrub lied us into Iraq, remember “Mission Accomplished?” And 22,000,000 missing emails? Who was held accountable? Biden lies about getting the US out of a failed war, oh the horror!
well then all your previous outrage at trump constantly lying just went down the toilet. you might want to go back and edit about 7 thousand posts.
Yes. Only cared about the truth the last 4 years. Now it doesn’t matter. I guess politics has become like religion to a few. In no way shape or form can you call out your own. Sad.
Let me know when any dem lies to the extent the repubs have and do and then we can talk.
And it didn’t start with POOTWH. Shrub lied us into Iraq, remember “Mission Accomplished?” And 22,000,000 missing emails? Who was held accountable? Biden lies about getting the US out of a failed war, oh the horror!
The lies Didn’t start with Bush either (I’m guessing that’s shrub?). “I did not have sexual relations with that girl”.
And it didn’t start with POOTWH. Shrub lied us into Iraq, remember “Mission Accomplished?” And 22,000,000 missing emails? Who was held accountable? Biden lies about getting the US out of a failed war, oh the horror!
The lies Didn’t start with Bush either (I’m guessing that’s shrub?). “I did not have sexual relations with that girl”.
Oh, the horror! If I recall, Clinton was impeached.
And it didn’t start with POOTWH. Shrub lied us into Iraq, remember “Mission Accomplished?” And 22,000,000 missing emails? Who was held accountable? Biden lies about getting the US out of a failed war, oh the horror!
had trump lied to get us out of that failed war, and US service members died during the pullout, you'd be losing your shit.
and honestly, i was less concerned about the potential that he lied; more the potential that he "didn't recall". recalling things like that is pretty important.
"Oh Canada...you're beautiful when you're drunk" -EV 8/14/93
And it didn’t start with POOTWH. Shrub lied us into Iraq, remember “Mission Accomplished?” And 22,000,000 missing emails? Who was held accountable? Biden lies about getting the US out of a failed war, oh the horror!
The lies Didn’t start with Bush either (I’m guessing that’s shrub?). “I did not have sexual relations with that girl”.
Oh, the horror! If I recall, Clinton was impeached.
So was Trump. Taking advantage of young female interns I guess isn’t that bad, judging from your oh the horror comment.
And it didn’t start with POOTWH. Shrub lied us into Iraq, remember “Mission Accomplished?” And 22,000,000 missing emails? Who was held accountable? Biden lies about getting the US out of a failed war, oh the horror!
had trump lied to get us out of that failed war, and US service members died during the pullout, you'd be losing your shit.
and honestly, i was less concerned about the potential that he lied; more the potential that he "didn't recall". recalling things like that is pretty important.
Exactly. I can’t understand why this just can’t be admitted to.
And it didn’t start with POOTWH. Shrub lied us into Iraq, remember “Mission Accomplished?” And 22,000,000 missing emails? Who was held accountable? Biden lies about getting the US out of a failed war, oh the horror!
had trump lied to get us out of that failed war, and US service members died during the pullout, you'd be losing your shit.
and honestly, i was less concerned about the potential that he lied; more the potential that he "didn't recall". recalling things like that is pretty important.
I’m ecstatic we’re out. POOTWH could have done it while he was in office and been my hero. Instead, he pulled a shrub. Both Obama and Biden called their bluff and repubs lost their shit. Same-same. Just like the debt ceiling. And immigration. And covid. It’s all same-same.
And it didn’t start with POOTWH. Shrub lied us into Iraq, remember “Mission Accomplished?” And 22,000,000 missing emails? Who was held accountable? Biden lies about getting the US out of a failed war, oh the horror!
had trump lied to get us out of that failed war, and US service members died during the pullout, you'd be losing your shit.
and honestly, i was less concerned about the potential that he lied; more the potential that he "didn't recall". recalling things like that is pretty important.
I’m ecstatic we’re out. POOTWH could have done it while he was in office and been my hero. Instead, he pulled a shrub. Both Obama and Biden called their bluff and repubs lost their shit. Same-same. Just like the debt ceiling. And immigration. And covid. It’s all same-same.
HAHAHAH right.
"Oh Canada...you're beautiful when you're drunk" -EV 8/14/93
And it didn’t start with POOTWH. Shrub lied us into Iraq, remember “Mission Accomplished?” And 22,000,000 missing emails? Who was held accountable? Biden lies about getting the US out of a failed war, oh the horror!
had trump lied to get us out of that failed war, and US service members died during the pullout, you'd be losing your shit.
and honestly, i was less concerned about the potential that he lied; more the potential that he "didn't recall". recalling things like that is pretty important.
I’m ecstatic we’re out. POOTWH could have done it while he was in office and been my hero. Instead, he pulled a shrub. Both Obama and Biden called their bluff and repubs lost their shit. Same-same. Just like the debt ceiling. And immigration. And covid. It’s all same-same.
HAHAHAH right.
I would have given him credit but instead he chose to remain the shit stain on humanity that some of us know he is.
And it didn’t start with POOTWH. Shrub lied us into Iraq, remember “Mission Accomplished?” And 22,000,000 missing emails? Who was held accountable? Biden lies about getting the US out of a failed war, oh the horror!
had trump lied to get us out of that failed war, and US service members died during the pullout, you'd be losing your shit.
and honestly, i was less concerned about the potential that he lied; more the potential that he "didn't recall". recalling things like that is pretty important.
I’m ecstatic we’re out. POOTWH could have done it while he was in office and been my hero. Instead, he pulled a shrub. Both Obama and Biden called their bluff and repubs lost their shit. Same-same. Just like the debt ceiling. And immigration. And covid. It’s all same-same.
HAHAHAH right.
I would have given him credit but instead he chose to remain the shit stain on humanity that some of us know he is.
I'd be interested to see your posts dating back to around the time Trump pulled out of Syria.
"Oh Canada...you're beautiful when you're drunk" -EV 8/14/93
And it didn’t start with POOTWH. Shrub lied us into Iraq, remember “Mission Accomplished?” And 22,000,000 missing emails? Who was held accountable? Biden lies about getting the US out of a failed war, oh the horror!
The lies Didn’t start with Bush either (I’m guessing that’s shrub?). “I did not have sexual relations with that girl”.
Oh, the horror! If I recall, Clinton was impeached.
So was Trump. Taking advantage of young female interns I guess isn’t that bad, judging from your oh the horror comment.
If you think a 22 year old is a “girl” and wasn’t a consenting adult during the “affair,” okay, I guess? It’s about the level of outrage and degree to which an inappropriate relationship was investigated and a POTUS was impeached and yet the other side excuses and nominates snd elects an admitted pussy grabber. See? Same-same.
Why some can’t admit that is beyond me. It’s about the degrees of wrong and the degrees of accountability. But hey, same-same. So Dems should start playing that way.
And it didn’t start with POOTWH. Shrub lied us into Iraq, remember “Mission Accomplished?” And 22,000,000 missing emails? Who was held accountable? Biden lies about getting the US out of a failed war, oh the horror!
The lies Didn’t start with Bush either (I’m guessing that’s shrub?). “I did not have sexual relations with that girl”.
Oh, the horror! If I recall, Clinton was impeached.
So was Trump. Taking advantage of young female interns I guess isn’t that bad, judging from your oh the horror comment.
If you think a 22 year old is a “girl” and wasn’t a consenting adult during the “affair,” okay, I guess? It’s about the level of outrage and degree to which an inappropriate relationship was investigated and a POTUS was impeached and yet the other side excuses and nominates snd elects an admitted pussy grabber. See? Same-same
You’re an incredible hypocrite. It’s all good though.
And it didn’t start with POOTWH. Shrub lied us into Iraq, remember “Mission Accomplished?” And 22,000,000 missing emails? Who was held accountable? Biden lies about getting the US out of a failed war, oh the horror!
The lies Didn’t start with Bush either (I’m guessing that’s shrub?). “I did not have sexual relations with that girl”.
Oh, the horror! If I recall, Clinton was impeached.
So was Trump. Taking advantage of young female interns I guess isn’t that bad, judging from your oh the horror comment.
If you think a 22 year old is a “girl” and wasn’t a consenting adult during the “affair,” okay, I guess? It’s about the level of outrage and degree to which an inappropriate relationship was investigated and a POTUS was impeached and yet the other side excuses and nominates snd elects an admitted pussy grabber. See? Same-same
You’re an incredible hypocrite. It’s all good though.
And your an incredible model of consistency, only outraged by one side. See where that’ll get you.
And it didn’t start with POOTWH. Shrub lied us into Iraq, remember “Mission Accomplished?” And 22,000,000 missing emails? Who was held accountable? Biden lies about getting the US out of a failed war, oh the horror!
The lies Didn’t start with Bush either (I’m guessing that’s shrub?). “I did not have sexual relations with that girl”.
Oh, the horror! If I recall, Clinton was impeached.
So was Trump. Taking advantage of young female interns I guess isn’t that bad, judging from your oh the horror comment.
If you think a 22 year old is a “girl” and wasn’t a consenting adult during the “affair,” okay, I guess? It’s about the level of outrage and degree to which an inappropriate relationship was investigated and a POTUS was impeached and yet the other side excuses and nominates snd elects an admitted pussy grabber. See? Same-same
You’re an incredible hypocrite. It’s all good though.
And your an incredible model of consistency, only outraged by one side. See where that’ll get you.
holy shit dude. you just called him exactly what you do.
"Oh Canada...you're beautiful when you're drunk" -EV 8/14/93
And it didn’t start with POOTWH. Shrub lied us into Iraq, remember “Mission Accomplished?” And 22,000,000 missing emails? Who was held accountable? Biden lies about getting the US out of a failed war, oh the horror!
had trump lied to get us out of that failed war, and US service members died during the pullout, you'd be losing your shit.
and honestly, i was less concerned about the potential that he lied; more the potential that he "didn't recall". recalling things like that is pretty important.
Playing the both sides card on whether Biden should have kept troops in Afghanistan is a bit absurd, since that is the wrong question. The minimal troop level Biden was left with was unsustainable as more troops would have been needed once the US showed the taliban it was violating the agreement by staying in the country long term. Under that scenario, loss of life would likely have been far greater than the tragic loss of 13 troops.
the right question is - would staying in Afghanistan or increasing troops change anything regarding the outcome of the 20 year war. That is what Biden was adamant about regarding the advice from his generals, until Stephanopolous caught him when he was apparently furious about all the second guessing that everyone other than the president gets to make. Whether they told him to keep troops there is irrelevant. Yes the generals ALWAYS want more troops.
Bottom line, leaving was the right call that 70% of the country agreed with, until things got messy. And now many of the 70% are making the wrong interpretation that getting out immediately was not safer to the lives of American troops. But that’s the luxury second guessers get to make that POTUS does not. Yes Biden should clean up his comment to ABC News, but that was 100% the wrong question
And it didn’t start with POOTWH. Shrub lied us into Iraq, remember “Mission Accomplished?” And 22,000,000 missing emails? Who was held accountable? Biden lies about getting the US out of a failed war, oh the horror!
The lies Didn’t start with Bush either (I’m guessing that’s shrub?). “I did not have sexual relations with that girl”.
Oh, the horror! If I recall, Clinton was impeached.
So was Trump. Taking advantage of young female interns I guess isn’t that bad, judging from your oh the horror comment.
If you think a 22 year old is a “girl” and wasn’t a consenting adult during the “affair,” okay, I guess? It’s about the level of outrage and degree to which an inappropriate relationship was investigated and a POTUS was impeached and yet the other side excuses and nominates snd elects an admitted pussy grabber. See? Same-same
You’re an incredible hypocrite. It’s all good though.
And your an incredible model of consistency, only outraged by one side. See where that’ll get you.
Yea I only voice certain opinions here. I just figured this site doesn’t need another person screaming about trump. But go ahead and make your assumptions. Where exactly has your posts here got you? How much time exactly have you wasted yelling at the clouds here? Your condescending tone and “smartest guy in the room” attitude here is appalling honestly and quite boring.
And it didn’t start with POOTWH. Shrub lied us into Iraq, remember “Mission Accomplished?” And 22,000,000 missing emails? Who was held accountable? Biden lies about getting the US out of a failed war, oh the horror!
The lies Didn’t start with Bush either (I’m guessing that’s shrub?). “I did not have sexual relations with that girl”.
Oh, the horror! If I recall, Clinton was impeached.
So was Trump. Taking advantage of young female interns I guess isn’t that bad, judging from your oh the horror comment.
If you think a 22 year old is a “girl” and wasn’t a consenting adult during the “affair,” okay, I guess? It’s about the level of outrage and degree to which an inappropriate relationship was investigated and a POTUS was impeached and yet the other side excuses and nominates snd elects an admitted pussy grabber. See? Same-same.
Why some can’t admit that is beyond me. It’s about the degrees of wrong and the degrees of accountability. But hey, same-same. So Dems should start playing that way.
you once called me a woman-hating misogynist for saying something less offensive than this (that I didn't support Hillary or something along those lines).
Clinton was accused by how many women? and he gets a pass?
unreal.
"Oh Canada...you're beautiful when you're drunk" -EV 8/14/93
Comments
how do you know the advisor is not lying? does a military advisor suddenly have more credibility than the chief executive now? i guess it depends on who the chief executive is.
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
-EV 8/14/93
25,000+ lies over 4 years of POOTWH and suddenly we care about the “truth?” Give me a break.
Libtardaplorable©. And proud of it.
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WASHINGTON (AP) — The top U.S. military officer called the 20-year war in Afghanistan a “strategic failure” and acknowledged to Congress that he had favored keeping several thousand troops in the country to prevent a collapse of the U.S.-supported Kabul government and a rapid takeover by the Taliban.
Republicans on the Senate Armed Services Committee pointed to the testimony Tuesday by Gen. Mark Milley, chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, as evidence that President Joe Biden had been untruthful when, in a television interview last month, he suggested the military had not urged him to keep troops in Afghanistan.
Milley refused to say what advice he gave Biden last spring when Biden was considering whether to comply with an agreement the Trump administration had made with the Taliban to reduce the American troop presence to zero by May 2021, ending a U.S. war that began in October 2001. Testifying alongside Milley, Defense Secretary Lloyd Austin also refused to reveal his advice to Biden.
Austin and Milley are scheduled to appear Wednesday before the House Armed Services Committee to review the war.
Milley told the Senate committee, when pressed Tuesday, that it had been his personal opinion that at least 2,500 U.S. troops were needed to guard against a collapse of the Kabul government and a return to Taliban rule.
Defying U.S. intelligence assessments, the Afghan government and its U.S.-trained army collapsed in mid-August, allowing the Taliban, which had ruled the country from 1996 to 2001, to capture Kabul with what Milley described as a couple of hundred men on motorcycles, without a shot being fired. That triggered a frantic U.S. effort to evacuate American civilians, Afghan allies and others from Kabul airport.
Gen. Frank McKenzie, who as head of Central Command was overseeing U.S. troops in Afghanistan, said he shared Milley’s view that keeping a residual force there could have kept the Kabul government intact.
“I recommended that we maintain 2,500 troops in Afghanistan, and I also recommended early in the fall of 2020 that we maintain 4,500 at that time, those were my personal views,” McKenzie said. “I also had a view that the withdrawal of those forces would lead inevitably to the collapse of the Afghan military forces and eventually the Afghan government.”
The six-hour Senate hearing marked the start of what is likely to be an extended congressional review of the U.S. failures in Afghanistan. The length and depth of the hearing stood in contrast to years of limited congressional oversight of the war and the hundreds of billions of taxpayer dollars it consumed.
“The Republicans' sudden interest in Afghanistan is plain old politics,” said Sen. Elizabeth Warren, a Massachusetts Democrat, who supported Biden's decision to end U.S. involvement there.
The hearing at times was contentious, as Republicans sought to portray Biden as having ignored advice from military officers and mischaracterized the military options he was presented last spring and summer.
Several Republicans tried unsuccessfully to draw Milley, McKenzie and Austin into commenting on the truthfulness of Biden’s statement to ABC News on Aug. 18, three days after the Taliban took control of Kabul, that no senior military commander had recommended against a full troop withdrawal when it was under discussion in the first months of Biden’s term.
When asked in that interview whether military advisers had recommended keeping 2,500 troops in Afghanistan, Biden replied, “No. No one said that to me that I can recall." He also said the advice “was split.”
White House press secretary Jen Psaki said Tuesday that Biden was referring to having received a range of advice.
"Regardless of the advice, it’s his decision, he’s the commander in chief,” she said.
In a blunt assessment of a war that cost 2,461 American lives, Milley said the result was years in the making.
“Outcomes in a war like this, an outcome that is a strategic failure — the enemy is in charge in Kabul, there's no way else to describe that — that is a cumulative effect of 20 years,” he said, adding that lessons need to be learned, including whether the U.S. military made the Afghans overly dependent on American technology in a mistaken effort to make the Afghan army look like the American army.
Republican Sen. Tom Cotton of Arkansas asked Milley why he did not choose to resign after his advice was rejected.
Milley, who was appointed to his position as chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff by President Donald Trump and retained by Biden, said it was his responsibility to provide the commander in chief with his best advice.
“The president doesn't have to agree with that advice,” Milley said. “He doesn't have to make those decisions just because we are generals. And it would be an incredible act of political defiance for a commissioned officer to resign just because my advice was not taken."
Austin defended the military's execution of a frantic airlift from Kabul in August and asserted it will be “difficult but absolutely possible” to contain future threats from Afghanistan without troops on the ground.
Milley cited “a very real possibility” that al-Qaida or the Islamic State group's Afghanistan affiliate could reconstitute in Afghanistan under Taliban rule and present a terrorist threat to the United States in the next 12 to 36 months.
It was al-Qaida's use of Afghanistan as a base from which to plan and execute its attacks on the United States on Sept. 11, 2001, that triggered the U.S. invasion of Afghanistan a month later.
“And we must remember that the Taliban was and remains a terrorist organization and they still have not broken ties with al-Qaida,” Milley said. “I have no illusions who we are dealing with. It remains to be seen whether or not the Taliban can consolidate power or if the country will further fracture into civil war.”
Austin questioned decisions made over the 20-year course of the U.S. war in Afghanistan. In retrospect, he said, the American government may have put too much faith in its ability to build a viable Afghan government.
“We helped build a state, but we could not forge a nation,” he told the Senate committee. “The fact that the Afghan army we and our partners trained simply melted away – in many cases without firing a shot – took us all by surprise. It would be dishonest to claim otherwise.”
Asked why the United States did not foresee the rapid collapse of the Afghan army, Milley said that in his judgment the U.S. military lost its ability to see and understand the true condition of the Afghan forces when it ended the practice some years ago of having advisers alongside the Afghans on the battlefield.
“You can’t measure the human heart with a machine, you have to be there,” Milley said.
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
and we always cared about the truth, which is why trump's constant lies were a constant thing in the news and on here. you cared about it. now you don't?
I personally want the leader of the free world to recall if he gave a pretty important order to his military generals or not. and that has nothing to do with honesty, just competency.
-EV 8/14/93
In his statement, Milley laid out the course of the war in Afghanistan. He noted that in 20 years there, more than 800,000 U.S. military personnel served; 2,461 were killed in action, 20,698 were wounded, and countless others came home with internal scars. Milley expressed his opinion that their service in Afghanistan prevented another attack on America from terrorists based there.
Then Milley talked of our exit from the country, emphasizing that it is a mistake to focus only on our rushed exit in August. In 2011, we began a long-term drawdown of troops from their peak of 97,000 U.S. troops and 41,000 NATO troops. On February 29, 2020, when the Trump administration signed an agreement with the Taliban, there were 12,600 U.S. troops, 8,000 NATO troops, and 10,500 contractors in Afghanistan. With that agreement, known as the Doha Agreement, we agreed to withdraw if the Taliban met seven conditions that would lead to a deal between the Afghan government and the Taliban, while we agreed to eight conditions.
Milley wrote that the Taliban honored only one of its seven required conditions: it did not attack U.S. personnel. It did not cut ties to al Qaeda, and it significantly increased, rather than decreased, its attacks on Afghan civilians. Nonetheless, in the 8 months after the agreement, “we reduced US military forces from 12,600 to 6,800, NATO forces from 8,000 to 5,400 and US contractors from 9,700 to 7,900….”
On November 9, 2020, six days after the presidential election, Milley and then–Secretary of Defense Mark Esper recommended stopping the withdrawal until the Taliban met the required conditions. Two days later, on November 11, then-president Trump ordered the military to withdraw all forces from Afghanistan by January 15, 2021. Blindsided, military officers were able to talk Trump out of that rushed timetable, but on November 17, Trump ordered Milley to reduce troop levels to 2,500 no later than January 15.
So, when President Biden took office, only about 3,500 U.S. troops, 5,400 NATO troops, and 6,300 contractors were still in Afghanistan, leaving him with the problem that he would have either to leave altogether or to put in more troops in anticipation of resumed hostilities with the Taliban. Biden ordered a review of the situation and ultimately decided to withdraw from the country altogether.
Milley went on to explain some of the issues that have preoccupied pundits. He said he saw no predictions that the Afghan Army would melt away in 11 days. “The speed, scale and scope of the collapse was a surprise.” He said that holding the Bagram air base would have required 5,000–6,000 additional troops and that staying on after the August 31 deadline would have required 15,000–20,000 more troops, who would have faced significant risks, including the likelihood of casualties. “While it was militarily feasible,” he wrote, “we assessed the cost to be extraordinarily high…. Therefore, we unanimously recommended that the military mission be transitioned on 31 August to a diplomatic mission in order to get out the remaining American citizens.” In response to a question from Senator King, Milley put it more clearly: “On the first of September, we were going to go to war again with the Taliban. Of that there was no doubt.”
If Biden lied to avoid getting sucked in to remaining and then called weak for changing his mind due to political pressure, so be it. POOTWH isn't the new bar, he's the standard. Look at Moscow Mitchy Baby. You can't continue to take the "high road" and play by the rules when the other side doesn't have rules, a moral compass or anything that resembles fair play or doing what is right for the nation. So Biden lied about what his generals told him and made the decision he did. Impeach him.Libtardaplorable©. And proud of it.
Brilliantati©
-EV 8/14/93
I'm not saying that did or did not happen. I'm saying that just because these generals said what they said in front of congress doesn't mean it's exactly what happened. At the end of the day, I'm glad we're out. If we needed 2500 to 5k to hold the gov't together, well that is the permanent and minimum number. If the Taliban attacked, there would be some US casualties and we would end up escalating yet again.
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
Libtardaplorable©. And proud of it.
Brilliantati©
Libtardaplorable©. And proud of it.
Brilliantati©
Libtardaplorable©. And proud of it.
Brilliantati©
Libtardaplorable©. And proud of it.
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and honestly, i was less concerned about the potential that he lied; more the potential that he "didn't recall". recalling things like that is pretty important.
-EV 8/14/93
Libtardaplorable©. And proud of it.
Brilliantati©
-EV 8/14/93
Libtardaplorable©. And proud of it.
Brilliantati©
-EV 8/14/93
Why some can’t admit that is beyond me. It’s about the degrees of wrong and the degrees of accountability. But hey, same-same. So Dems should start playing that way.
Libtardaplorable©. And proud of it.
Brilliantati©
Libtardaplorable©. And proud of it.
Brilliantati©
-EV 8/14/93
the right question is - would staying in Afghanistan or increasing troops change anything regarding the outcome of the 20 year war. That is what Biden was adamant about regarding the advice from his generals, until Stephanopolous caught him when he was apparently furious about all the second guessing that everyone other than the president gets to make. Whether they told him to keep troops there is irrelevant. Yes the generals ALWAYS want more troops.
Bottom line, leaving was the right call that 70% of the country agreed with, until things got messy. And now many of the 70% are making the wrong interpretation that getting out immediately was not safer to the lives of American troops. But that’s the luxury second guessers get to make that POTUS does not. Yes Biden should clean up his comment to ABC News, but that was 100% the wrong question
Clinton was accused by how many women? and he gets a pass?
unreal.
-EV 8/14/93