@Sawyer: how are you even on this forum? I didn't know anyone so right-wing was a PJ fan. It goes against everything they and their music and their causes stand for. It's strange to see a 10C member with your line of thinking.
Right wingers aren't as intolerant as left wingers, apparently. These types of comments are funny to me. The so-called liberals that are accepting of all, keep asking how conservatives can like Pearl Jam. It is very ironic that the close-mind conservatives can like Pearl Jam even if they disagree with their politics, but the open-minded liberals would never give a conservative band a chance.
@Sawyer: how are you even on this forum? I didn't know anyone so right-wing was a PJ fan. It goes against everything they and their music and their causes stand for. It's strange to see a 10C member with your line of thinking.
Right wingers aren't as intolerant as left wingers, apparently. These types of comments are funny to me. The so-called liberals that are accepting of all, keep asking how conservatives can like Pearl Jam. It is very ironic that the close-mind conservatives can like Pearl Jam even if they disagree with their politics, but the open-minded liberals would never give a conservative band a chance.
Great read.....Im gonna need to reread being on these boards
@Sawyer: how are you even on this forum? I didn't know anyone so right-wing was a PJ fan. It goes against everything they and their music and their causes stand for. It's strange to see a 10C member with your line of thinking.
Right wingers aren't as intolerant as left wingers, apparently. These types of comments are funny to me. The so-called liberals that are accepting of all, keep asking how conservatives can like Pearl Jam. It is very ironic that the close-mind conservatives can like Pearl Jam even if they disagree with their politics, but the open-minded liberals would never give a conservative band a chance.
Yea, we're asking because of how strongly the band, especially Ed,feels about politics in America. No one is telling you that you can't be a fan of the band, but many of us feel an even stronger connection to their music and ideals because we happen to agree with them. Not to mention they are overtly vocal about it and its everywhere in their music. It's a valid question.
We're not the ones who post unsubstantiated bullshit and then run off and hide. The current republican party is a joke - some people want to continue to be blindly loyal to their "club" for whatever reason is telling....this isn't the republican party from 40 or 50 years ago that your parents grew up with. It has morphed into a party of the super rich trying to protect their illegal money making schemes while they play on the citizens who place their political views in the hands of god and "moral" issues over the economy, health care, and education.
The republican debates that were supposed to focus on the economy quickly turn into a bitch fest over birth control. Pardon the rest of us for seeing this as grown children discussing things that do not need to be discussed. No one is forcing anyone to take birth control. The list goes on. Planned Parenthood? Yea, what an evil social service that is that isn't even a drop in the bucket of our federal budget. NPR radio? Yea, lets strip away the most unbiased news source we have.
I can't wait for Obama's second term when he won't be concerned about getting reelected and has experience under his belt. Thanks to the utter dysfunction of the republican party, it has gotten to a point where it's embarrassing to be associated with them. I can't wait for the presidential debates. It is going to be a fucking riot.
@Sawyer: how are you even on this forum? I didn't know anyone so right-wing was a PJ fan. It goes against everything they and their music and their causes stand for. It's strange to see a 10C member with your line of thinking.
Right wingers aren't as intolerant as left wingers, apparently. These types of comments are funny to me. The so-called liberals that are accepting of all, keep asking how conservatives can like Pearl Jam. It is very ironic that the close-mind conservatives can like Pearl Jam even if they disagree with their politics, but the open-minded liberals would never give a conservative band a chance.
Great read.....Im gonna need to reread being on these boards
@Sawyer: how are you even on this forum? I didn't know anyone so right-wing was a PJ fan. It goes against everything they and their music and their causes stand for. It's strange to see a 10C member with your line of thinking.
Right wingers aren't as intolerant as left wingers, apparently. These types of comments are funny to me. The so-called liberals that are accepting of all, keep asking how conservatives can like Pearl Jam. It is very ironic that the close-mind conservatives can like Pearl Jam even if they disagree with their politics, but the open-minded liberals would never give a conservative band a chance.
Great read.....Im gonna need to reread being on these boards
This is fucking gold. You ask a question that many answer very well then don't respond with anything of substance then post a link to a book by....wait for it....wait for it.....ANN COULTER
Like I said, so glad you are having an impact on young peoples lives. :oops:
What I've learned over time is that neither party has the right answers. They each have aspects that I like, and they each have aspects that I don't like. For instance, I believe fiscal conservatism is a good thing - on the other hand, I believe social conservatism is a scary thing.
The only sensible policy from my perspective is libertarianism. Government should get out of the people's way and stop dictating to them how they should spend their money, how they should treat their bodies, or how they should run their lives. That's all the politicians fight about anyway - how they can control your life. The democrats want to run your life economically, and the republicans want to run your life culturally and socially. Both are equally bad. I choose freedom.
Bristow, VA - 5.13.10
East Troy, WI - 9.3.11
East Troy, WI - 9.4.11
Atlanta, GA - 9.22.12
Las Vegas, NV - 10.31.12 (EV)
Las Vegas, NV - 11.1.12 (EV)
Chicago, IL - 7.19.13
Dallas, TX - 11.15.13
Oklahoma City, OK - 11.16.13
Seattle, WA - 12.6.13
Lincoln, NE - 10.9.14
Moline, IL - 10.17.14
St. Paul, MN - 10.19.14
Milwaukee, WI - 10.20.14
New York, NY - 5.1.16
New York, NY - 5.2.16
Boston, MA - 8.5.16
Boston, MA - 8.7.16
Chicago, IL - 8.20.16
What I've learned over time is that neither party has the right answers. They each have aspects that I like, and they each have aspects that I don't like. For instance, I believe fiscal conservatism is a good thing - on the other hand, I believe social conservatism is a scary thing.
The only sensible policy from my perspective is libertarianism. Government should get out of the people's way and stop dictating to them how they should spend their money, how they should treat their bodies, or how they should run their lives. That's all the politicians fight about anyway - how they can control your life. The democrats want to run your life economically, and the republicans want to run your life culturally and socially. Both are equally bad. I choose freedom.
I have no idea what you're talking about. I have no idea if I listen to any "conservative bands." I generally don't care one way or another and wouldn't know the difference. But we're talking about the band who wrote. Bu$hleaguer for crying out loud. They did a tour that was solely focused on convincing people to vote Bush out. EV has played benefit concerts to fight against pro-lifers, ETC ETC ETC... it really is strange that a big Bush supporter and republican would be a 10c member given all these facts. It has nothing to do with intolerance at all. For me to be a die hard fan of some band that actively and vocally stands for everything I disagree with wouldn't be "tolerance" on my part. It would be illogical and rather hypocritical. This whole tolerance argument doesn't really work. I don't think left-wingers feel bad about being intolerant of what they find absolutely and completely unacceptable. Um, yeah I'm intolerant of what I see as everything that is wrong with the world. I should hope everyone would be! If everyone walked around saying we all have to be tolerant even when we seriously oppose those views would equal no one ever fighting for what they think is right.
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
regardless of who he is supporting, it is interesting how he toned down his political views/rants at shows. listening to many boots, watching many shows on youtube, it seems his last political hurrah was in '03.
regardless of who he is supporting, it is interesting how he toned down his political views/rants at shows. listening to many boots, watching many shows on youtube, it seems his last political hurrah was in '03.
That's not true at all. Not sure how you missed all the political stuff he went off about right up until 2008, and spoke against the war regularly. And the Vote for Change tour was in '04. And since then, much of his focus has been on the oil companies (especially recently with the spill), and of course the corrupt justice system; the Memphis Three this REALLY started taking up a lot of his energy over the past few years. And actually -j that sense you're right, since that was a big focus for him for a long time, but not something he would rant about of course; he was just personally involved.
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
I have no idea what you're talking about. I have no idea if I listen to any "conservative bands." I generally don't care one way or another and wouldn't know the difference. But we're talking about the band who wrote. Bu$hleaguer for crying out loud. They did a tour that was solely focused on convincing people to vote Bush out. EV has played benefit concerts to fight against pro-lifers, ETC ETC ETC... it really is strange that a big Bush supporter and republican would be a 10c member given all these facts. It has nothing to do with intolerance at all. For me to be a die hard fan of some band that actively and vocally stands for everything I disagree with wouldn't be "tolerance" on my part. It would be illogical and rather hypocritical. This whole tolerance argument doesn't really work. I don't think left-wingers feel bad about being intolerant of what they find absolutely and completely unacceptable. Um, yeah I'm intolerant of what I see as everything that is wrong with the world. I should hope everyone would be! If everyone walked around saying we all have to be tolerant even when we seriously oppose those views would equal no one ever fighting for what they think is right.
This is warped thinking. Sorry.
First, let's be real: Eddie is a rock star, not Jesus. Even if Pearl Jam is a person's favorite rock band, a person agreeing with them in regards to politics means they agree with them politically. That's about it. Hopefully, you agree because you would have those feelings (even if Ed changed his). Otherwise, you’re feel the way you do just because Ed does, which is scary.... basing your politics on a rock band's lead singer.
Second, just to point out - one of Ed’s closest rock star friends, now passed on, did not agree with him at all in regards to politics. Yet, Ed was still close friends with him. After all, it is just politics and both of these individuals were rock stars, nothing more. Their opinion is as worthy as the janitor at your local high school or the business manager at your local CPA firm. That’s about it. Most normal people have friends/family/etc. that they disagree with in regards to politics, but still may hold them up as great people, great friends, and in some cases, may even marry them.
Third, speaking as a Ron Paul supporter (who doesn't agree with Ed's take on a number of issues) I don’t think it’s hypocritical for someone such as myself to enjoy their music at all and even say they are my favorite band. I admire Ed’s passion, think the band is excellent musically, think Ed’s a great lyricist, etc. This doesn’t have to do with politics. Anyone who says conservatives can’t be fans has real issues themselves because they can’t see past the politics. This band is not simply a political band: listen to No Code if you need to remind yourself through an entire album. Further, lots of people don’t dig the rants at shows, even people who agree with him politically. As I’ve said earlier, people are paying to hear a rock band, not Socrates or Rachel Maddow.
Let me explain my point of view further. The heavy majority of Pearl Jam songs are not political, and in my opinion, they are the better sect of songs. Songs like Elderly woman, Betterman, Present Tense, Just Breathe, Alive, daughter, etc. There are only a few that one could argue (with complete consistency) are definitely, evidently anti-right. Example, Bushleager. And, speaking as someone who was definitively not a fan of Bush - I’d say most fans would claim that this would rank in their weakest quadrant of songs. In fact, when Ed attacks politics head-on, like that, I personally think the songs tend to suffer. But, I’m sure you also have a few songs you don’t like in their catalogue (maybe their the non-political songs?). Ironically, songs like Unemployable (or the political songs on the S/T) appeal to me because Ed tells stories and most are less direct.
Regardless of how one responds - agreement or disagreement to the undertones beneathe the story, thinking about those things, or encouraging the dialogue, is a good thing. So, although I prefer the non-political songs, since they are what really turned me onto the band, the political songs can be good too. It’s just the direct attacks, that I tend to dislike. That said, if they write a great song that's an attack, maybe I’d dig that too.
It's not warped thinking, you're just misinterpreting what I'm saying. I know that Eddie isn't Jesus. I don't know why you even said that. None of my own political views come from EV's. He just happens to have many of the same views I do (and I admire him for his activism; he's NOT the same as the janitor because he reaches millions of people with what I think are really important messages for people to hear).
Also, literally my entire immediate family votes conservative, and we actually have opposing views on practically everything. I'm the black sheep of a right wing family. And we're a very close family. So yeah, you are misreading what I'm trying to say. But if one is paying attention to EV's causes because one feels the same way, he's a champion, aside from the music... EV is my favorite musician and Singer, as well as one of my favorite philanthropists. And for the record, I pretty much like ALL of PJ and EVs music, political or otherwise (except Ole. That is a piece of shit, lol). All the non-political music is amazing, but at the end of the day, everything they do is, for me, connected to the band's world view as well. That's just how I roll.
It still surprises me that a right winger would be an active 10c member. PJ does stand for certain values and I simply find it weird that someone would be attached enough to a band to be an active paying fan club member while being principally opposed to the messages that the band actively broadcast in a concerted effort to make people realize how wrong his own views are. I would not be able to be a fan of a band that spewed messages i am opposed to. I personally don't feel like a band's music and a band's activism are mutually exclusive. It matters to me; it's a part of the experience for me. That has nothing to do with how I confront opposing political and world views with people in my life. They are people, and music is art - how we choose to appreciate it is personal and has nothing to do with how we interact with other people in Tue world. I wouldn't be able to ignore it if they promoted, say, capitalism and pro-life, and traditional marriage. It would kust be off-putting to me.I'm not even judging. I just think it's weird. Don't know where the controversy is coming from!
Post edited by PJ_Soul on
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
It's not warped thinking, you're just misinterpreting what I'm saying. I know that Eddie isn't Jesus. I don't know why you even said that. None of my own political views come from EV's. He just happens to have many of the same views I do (and I admire him for his activism; he's NOT the same as the janitor because he reaches millions of people with what I think are really important messages for people to hear).
Also, literally my entire immediate family votes conservative, and we actually have opposing views on practically everything. I'm the black sheep of a right wing family. And we're a very close family. So yeah, you are misreading what I'm trying to say. But if one is paying attention to EV's causes because one feels the same way, he's a champion, aside from the music... EV is my favorite musician and Singer, as well as one of my favorite philanthropists. And for the record, I pretty much like ALL of PJ and EVs music, political or otherwise (except Old. That is a piece of shit, lol). All the non-political music is amazing, but at the end of the day, everything they do is, for me, connected to the band's world view as well. That's just how I roll.
It still surprises me that a right winger would be an active 10c member. PJ does stand for certain values and I simply find it weird that someone would be attached enough to a band to be an active paying fan club member while being principally opposed to the messages that the band actively broadcast in a concerted effort to make people realize how wrong his own views are. I would not be able to be a fan of a band that spewed messages i am opposed to. I personally don't feel like a band's music and a band's activism are mutually exclusive. It matters to me; it's a part of the experience for me. That has nothing to do with how I confront opposing political and world views with people in my life. They are people, and music is art - how we choose to appreciate it is personal and has nothing to do with how we interact with other people in Tue world. I wouldn't be able to ignore it if they promoted, say, capitalism and pro-life, and traditional marriage. It would kust be off-putting to me.I'm not even judging. I just think it's weird. Don't know where the controversy is coming from!
Not all conservatives will like the things the band stands for but some like to actually be challenged on their position. You need to hear the other side of things and how other people stand on issues. I think it is very important.
My dad is a hardcore conservative and would never vote for anyone but a Republican. Yet, he is still a Pearl Jam fan.
I personally pay more attention to the music. Lyrics come later and are far less important to me.
I actually knew someone that, after Rusty Wallace retired, would no longer drink Miller Lite because she hated Kurt Busch.
Point is, don't let other peoples' alliances be the basis for your own views.
Lol. That's kind of funny.
I agree with you... always use your brain to make your own decisions and form your own beliefs. PJ doesn't influence what I believe. They just match well with how I feel about the world. That's why I love them so much. That said, I have no problem with boycotts to make a point. Not at all. If I, say, found a connection between my favorite make up company and being against gay marriage or fighting for an increase in offshore drilling, I'd stop using the make up in protest (not that Cover Girl is getting too political at this point, lol). Boycotting for a principle is good!
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
oh and socialism isn't a bad thing, don't understand the fear of that either. If the rich can pay, well they should pay. And the same health and education should be available to every citizen. What's so bad about that idea I just can't fathom.
Wow! That is amazing that someone in America actually thinks this way!
It is a sad, sad day. There is a reason socialism does not and has not ever worked. Wake up people.
It's not warped thinking, you're just misinterpreting what I'm saying. I know that Eddie isn't Jesus. I don't know why you even said that. None of my own political views come from EV's. He just happens to have many of the same views I do (and I admire him for his activism; he's NOT the same as the janitor because he reaches millions of people with what I think are really important messages for people to hear).
I disagree. To me, it is warped thinking.
I'm not misinterpreting what you're saying. My point is, a 'normal' person would not follow what Ed believes politically. That's what I meant by saying, he's not Jesus. He doesn't change the political landscape. He became famous because he had a talent - singing. He broadened that talent with songwriting. Sure, there's a few people that just follow what he believes politically (why? I have no clue), but in the end, I think they are pretty negligible.
In that sense, his viewpoint is as important as the highschool janitor. And if you're going to argue because he has more money, fine... he's as important as a millionaire banker 20 miles from your house. Both are entitled to thier political opinions, and it's worth just as much, and vice versa. He's a rock singer, not a political guru. His opinion on politics is worth as much as Tom Brady's, for example.... no more.
Also, literally my entire immediate family votes conservative, and we actually have opposing views on practically everything. I'm the black sheep of a right wing family. And we're a very close family. So yeah, you are misreading what I'm trying to say. But if one is paying attention to EV's causes because one feels the same way, he's a champion, aside from the music... EV is my favorite musician and Singer, as well as one of my favorite philanthropists. And for the record, I pretty much like ALL of PJ and EVs music, political or otherwise (except Ole. That is a piece of shit, lol). All the non-political music is amazing, but at the end of the day, everything they do is, for me, connected to the band's world view as well. That's just how I roll.
That's fantastic that you're immediate family votes conservative. But, no offense, it has very little to do with what I'm saying.
As for "if one is paying attention to EV's causes because one feels the same way, he's a champion, aside from music"... and with that I'd agree. If someone comes to the table and listens to the music, loves it and then learns the band is politically aligned with them... that's one more plus, and is great. But, if another person comes to the table, listen to the music, learns the band is not politically aligned with them... but, yet they look past that, that to me shows that person is open-minded. They see that this rock singer's politics doesn't really matter, because it's music that they were after to begin with. They were after good music, and more than 95% (I'd argue higher) of the lyrics don't overtly stand against their political ideology.
It still surprises me that a right winger would be an active 10c member. PJ does stand for certain values and I simply find it weird that someone would be attached enough to a band to be an active paying fan club member while being principally opposed to the messages that the band actively broadcast in a concerted effort to make people realize how wrong his own views are. I would not be able to be a fan of a band that spewed messages i am opposed to. I personally don't feel like a band's music and a band's activism are mutually exclusive. It matters to me; it's a part of the experience for me. That has nothing to do with how I confront opposing political and world views with people in my life. They are people, and music is art - how we choose to appreciate it is personal and has nothing to do with how we interact with other people in Tue world. I wouldn't be able to ignore it if they promoted, say, capitalism and pro-life, and traditional marriage. It would kust be off-putting to me.I'm not even judging. I just think it's weird. Don't know where the controversy is coming from!
You have a right to be surprised that a 10c member would be a right-winger. And that fan club member has the right to say that you may be a bigot based on what you've said here (that's where the controversy came from, your post). I know, that may be (and probably is) a bit extreme... but, here's the definition:
A bigot is a person obstinately or intolerantly devoted to his or her own opinions and prejudices, especially one exhibiting intolerance, and animosity toward those of differing beliefs.
oh and socialism isn't a bad thing, don't understand the fear of that either. If the rich can pay, well they should pay. And the same health and education should be available to every citizen. What's so bad about that idea I just can't fathom.
Wow! That is amazing that someone in America actually thinks this way!
It is a sad, sad day. There is a reason socialism does not and has not ever worked. Wake up people.
The fire department, the police department, public schools, state colleges and universities, Medicare, Medicaid, social security, the roads you drive on = all examples of socialism. You know, in case you're not familiar with what it means. God, I'm arguing with Pearl Jam fans about politics.
Conversely, and with all due respect to the band and my fellow liberals, I'd say that PJ does align with quite a few conservative/capitalist values these days, particularly when it comes to high ticket prices and the Kiss-like merchandising of everything from socks to keychains to lighters to God knows what's next. That's what happens when you gain membership into the 1%, I suppose.
Los Angeles - Sep 11, 1992
Memphis - Aug 15, 2000
Chicago - May 16, 2006
Chicago - Aug 23-24, 2009
Columbus - May 6, 2010
Noblesville - May 7, 2010
Manchester - June 20-21, 2012
Amsterdam - June 26-27, 2012
Berlin - July 4-5, 2012
oh and socialism isn't a bad thing, don't understand the fear of that either. If the rich can pay, well they should pay. And the same health and education should be available to every citizen. What's so bad about that idea I just can't fathom.
Wow! That is amazing that someone in America actually thinks this way!
It is a sad, sad day. There is a reason socialism does not and has not ever worked. Wake up people.
Why is it amazing that someone in America thinks this way? As I stated earlier, Richard Nixon supported far more "left-wing" policies than Obama currently does. Ronald Reagan would have been trounced in this primary a long time ago. It is just a shifting to the right over the past 40 years that makes people think that the wealthy paying 39% in taxes is socialism, or, as Rick Santorum recently stated, that wanting kids to go to college is snobbish. I think your political mindset is based in the NOW without recognizing how we got to the NOW.
@inlet: Oh please. I'm no bigot and never said anything to suggest so.
I had some stuff to say about all this, but then honestly happened to stumble upon some other posts by you - a certain little thread where you outline how you're a climate change denier, and you sure pulled out all the bells and whistles on that one, and then i read another thing or two, and I realized that there is no point in discussing such matters with you. You are way too well versed in Fox-speak, and I admit that I've never been able to muster the energy or desire to combat your brand of debate. I discover that you have a real knack for this... twisting what others say in opposition to your views and always turning it into them having committed the offence of intolerance of other views, and always phrasing it in ways that give the impression of cool objectivity, when in fact it's anything but. You have the same thing going on all over the forum as it turns out... suddenly I'm just not interested in the debate - such tactics are as off-putting to me as a band that rants about how Obama is a commie during their encore break, lol.
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
I had some stuff to say about all this, but then honestly happened to stumble upon some other posts by you - a certain little thread where you outline how you're a climate change denier, and you sure pulled out all the bells and whistles on that one, and then i read another thing or two, and I realized that there is no point in discussing such matters with you. You are way too well versed in Fox-speak, and I admit that I've never been able to muster the energy or desire to combat your brand of debate. I discover that you have a real knack for this... twisting what others say in opposition to your views and always turning it into them having committed the offence of intolerance of other views, and always phrasing it in ways that give the impression of cool objectivity, when in fact it's anything but. You have the same thing going on all over the forum as it turns out... suddenly I'm just not interested in the debate - such tactics are as off-putting to me as a band that rants about how Obama is a commie during their encore break, lol.
I'm a climate change "denier"? Because I'm not 100% convinced of AGW. ha ha...
Regardless, that's relevant here, how?
Anyway, you're entitled to your opinion on conservative Pearl Jam fans. I wouldn't fall into that category, as I would probably be categorized as a liberatarian. That said, I do think your viewpoint is semi-bigoted. But, I'll relent.
oh and socialism isn't a bad thing, don't understand the fear of that either. If the rich can pay, well they should pay. And the same health and education should be available to every citizen. What's so bad about that idea I just can't fathom.
Wow! That is amazing that someone in America actually thinks this way!
It is a sad, sad day. There is a reason socialism does not and has not ever worked. Wake up people.
I'm not in America and am not American, sort of the classic American blinkered view that their way is the only way that works. it really isn't. and clearly it's not working too well either.
Wow! That is amazing that someone in America actually thinks this way!
It is a sad, sad day. There is a reason socialism does not and has not ever worked. Wake up people.
I'm not in America and am not American, sort of the classic American blinkered view that their way is the only way that works. it really isn't. and clearly it's not working too well either.
+1
The nations fairing the best now are those with systems much closer to socialism than America, I.e. Canada, Norway, Sweden... but there is always a balance that needs to be met, or else you tip over like Spain, Greece, and France isn't doing so well either. But one thing is for sure: the level of capitalism America has going is not working for them. It can't. The corporate greed combined with the government corruption re kickbacks and special interests causes the American capitalist system to be destructive to its population in the long run. And seriously... people go bankrupt and lose their homes because they get cancer in the US. wtf is up with that??? I think anyone against universal healthcare has to just be totally blind to the reality of what some people go through without it. Imagine, supporting a system where people can get rich off of denying healthcare.
Post edited by PJ_Soul on
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
oh and socialism isn't a bad thing, don't understand the fear of that either. If the rich can pay, well they should pay. And the same health and education should be available to every citizen. What's so bad about that idea I just can't fathom.
Wow! That is amazing that someone in America actually thinks this way!
It is a sad, sad day. There is a reason socialism does not and has not ever worked. Wake up people.
The fire department, the police department, public schools, state colleges and universities, Medicare, Medicaid, social security, the roads you drive on = all examples of socialism. You know, in case you're not familiar with what it means. God, I'm arguing with Pearl Jam fans about politics.
Conversely, and with all due respect to the band and my fellow liberals, I'd say that PJ does align with quite a few conservative/capitalist values these days, particularly when it comes to high ticket prices and the Kiss-like merchandising of everything from socks to keychains to lighters to God knows what's next. That's what happens when you gain membership into the 1%, I suppose.
Comments
Right wingers aren't as intolerant as left wingers, apparently. These types of comments are funny to me. The so-called liberals that are accepting of all, keep asking how conservatives can like Pearl Jam. It is very ironic that the close-mind conservatives can like Pearl Jam even if they disagree with their politics, but the open-minded liberals would never give a conservative band a chance.
Great read.....Im gonna need to reread being on these boards
http://www.barnesandnoble.com/w/how-to- ... f+you+must
Romney
Gingrich
McCain in 08
Dole in 96
Kerry(D)in 04(wartime presidents don't lose)
Sacrificial lambs for the slaughter. Some huge scandal from now till November is their only chance
Just my opinion, reading between the lines
Yea, we're asking because of how strongly the band, especially Ed,feels about politics in America. No one is telling you that you can't be a fan of the band, but many of us feel an even stronger connection to their music and ideals because we happen to agree with them. Not to mention they are overtly vocal about it and its everywhere in their music. It's a valid question.
We're not the ones who post unsubstantiated bullshit and then run off and hide. The current republican party is a joke - some people want to continue to be blindly loyal to their "club" for whatever reason is telling....this isn't the republican party from 40 or 50 years ago that your parents grew up with. It has morphed into a party of the super rich trying to protect their illegal money making schemes while they play on the citizens who place their political views in the hands of god and "moral" issues over the economy, health care, and education.
The republican debates that were supposed to focus on the economy quickly turn into a bitch fest over birth control. Pardon the rest of us for seeing this as grown children discussing things that do not need to be discussed. No one is forcing anyone to take birth control. The list goes on. Planned Parenthood? Yea, what an evil social service that is that isn't even a drop in the bucket of our federal budget. NPR radio? Yea, lets strip away the most unbiased news source we have.
I can't wait for Obama's second term when he won't be concerned about getting reelected and has experience under his belt. Thanks to the utter dysfunction of the republican party, it has gotten to a point where it's embarrassing to be associated with them. I can't wait for the presidential debates. It is going to be a fucking riot.
That's awesome! Only 3 out of 5 stars though, what gives? I'm noticing a trend though....VESTS...and hers is sweet....what is that, seal skin?
This is fucking gold. You ask a question that many answer very well then don't respond with anything of substance then post a link to a book by....wait for it....wait for it.....ANN COULTER
Like I said, so glad you are having an impact on young peoples lives. :oops:
The only sensible policy from my perspective is libertarianism. Government should get out of the people's way and stop dictating to them how they should spend their money, how they should treat their bodies, or how they should run their lives. That's all the politicians fight about anyway - how they can control your life. The democrats want to run your life economically, and the republicans want to run your life culturally and socially. Both are equally bad. I choose freedom.
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BUT, i think his celine dion rants are much more amusing: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2nAhaCMjBOg
That's not true at all. Not sure how you missed all the political stuff he went off about right up until 2008, and spoke against the war regularly. And the Vote for Change tour was in '04. And since then, much of his focus has been on the oil companies (especially recently with the spill), and of course the corrupt justice system; the Memphis Three this REALLY started taking up a lot of his energy over the past few years. And actually -j that sense you're right, since that was a big focus for him for a long time, but not something he would rant about of course; he was just personally involved.
This is warped thinking. Sorry.
First, let's be real: Eddie is a rock star, not Jesus. Even if Pearl Jam is a person's favorite rock band, a person agreeing with them in regards to politics means they agree with them politically. That's about it. Hopefully, you agree because you would have those feelings (even if Ed changed his). Otherwise, you’re feel the way you do just because Ed does, which is scary.... basing your politics on a rock band's lead singer.
Second, just to point out - one of Ed’s closest rock star friends, now passed on, did not agree with him at all in regards to politics. Yet, Ed was still close friends with him. After all, it is just politics and both of these individuals were rock stars, nothing more. Their opinion is as worthy as the janitor at your local high school or the business manager at your local CPA firm. That’s about it. Most normal people have friends/family/etc. that they disagree with in regards to politics, but still may hold them up as great people, great friends, and in some cases, may even marry them.
Third, speaking as a Ron Paul supporter (who doesn't agree with Ed's take on a number of issues) I don’t think it’s hypocritical for someone such as myself to enjoy their music at all and even say they are my favorite band. I admire Ed’s passion, think the band is excellent musically, think Ed’s a great lyricist, etc. This doesn’t have to do with politics. Anyone who says conservatives can’t be fans has real issues themselves because they can’t see past the politics. This band is not simply a political band: listen to No Code if you need to remind yourself through an entire album. Further, lots of people don’t dig the rants at shows, even people who agree with him politically. As I’ve said earlier, people are paying to hear a rock band, not Socrates or Rachel Maddow.
Let me explain my point of view further. The heavy majority of Pearl Jam songs are not political, and in my opinion, they are the better sect of songs. Songs like Elderly woman, Betterman, Present Tense, Just Breathe, Alive, daughter, etc. There are only a few that one could argue (with complete consistency) are definitely, evidently anti-right. Example, Bushleager. And, speaking as someone who was definitively not a fan of Bush - I’d say most fans would claim that this would rank in their weakest quadrant of songs. In fact, when Ed attacks politics head-on, like that, I personally think the songs tend to suffer. But, I’m sure you also have a few songs you don’t like in their catalogue (maybe their the non-political songs?). Ironically, songs like Unemployable (or the political songs on the S/T) appeal to me because Ed tells stories and most are less direct.
Regardless of how one responds - agreement or disagreement to the undertones beneathe the story, thinking about those things, or encouraging the dialogue, is a good thing. So, although I prefer the non-political songs, since they are what really turned me onto the band, the political songs can be good too. It’s just the direct attacks, that I tend to dislike. That said, if they write a great song that's an attack, maybe I’d dig that too.
<object height="81" width="100%"> <param name="movie" value="https://player.soundcloud.com/player.swf?url=http://api.soundcloud.com/tracks/28998869"></param> <param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param> <embed allowscriptaccess="always" height="81" src="https://player.soundcloud.com/player.swf?url=http://api.soundcloud.com/tracks/28998869" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" width="100%"></embed> </object> <span><a href=" - In the Fire (demo)</a> by <a href="
Also, literally my entire immediate family votes conservative, and we actually have opposing views on practically everything. I'm the black sheep of a right wing family. And we're a very close family. So yeah, you are misreading what I'm trying to say. But if one is paying attention to EV's causes because one feels the same way, he's a champion, aside from the music... EV is my favorite musician and Singer, as well as one of my favorite philanthropists. And for the record, I pretty much like ALL of PJ and EVs music, political or otherwise (except Ole. That is a piece of shit, lol). All the non-political music is amazing, but at the end of the day, everything they do is, for me, connected to the band's world view as well. That's just how I roll.
It still surprises me that a right winger would be an active 10c member. PJ does stand for certain values and I simply find it weird that someone would be attached enough to a band to be an active paying fan club member while being principally opposed to the messages that the band actively broadcast in a concerted effort to make people realize how wrong his own views are. I would not be able to be a fan of a band that spewed messages i am opposed to. I personally don't feel like a band's music and a band's activism are mutually exclusive. It matters to me; it's a part of the experience for me. That has nothing to do with how I confront opposing political and world views with people in my life. They are people, and music is art - how we choose to appreciate it is personal and has nothing to do with how we interact with other people in Tue world. I wouldn't be able to ignore it if they promoted, say, capitalism and pro-life, and traditional marriage. It would kust be off-putting to me.I'm not even judging. I just think it's weird. Don't know where the controversy is coming from!
Not all conservatives will like the things the band stands for but some like to actually be challenged on their position. You need to hear the other side of things and how other people stand on issues. I think it is very important.
My dad is a hardcore conservative and would never vote for anyone but a Republican. Yet, he is still a Pearl Jam fan.
I personally pay more attention to the music. Lyrics come later and are far less important to me.
Point is, don't let other peoples' alliances be the basis for your own views.
My mother won't buy Heinz ketchup.
Couldn't agree with you more.
Lol. That's kind of funny.
I agree with you... always use your brain to make your own decisions and form your own beliefs. PJ doesn't influence what I believe. They just match well with how I feel about the world. That's why I love them so much. That said, I have no problem with boycotts to make a point. Not at all. If I, say, found a connection between my favorite make up company and being against gay marriage or fighting for an increase in offshore drilling, I'd stop using the make up in protest (not that Cover Girl is getting too political at this point, lol). Boycotting for a principle is good!
Come to think of it, I downright refuse to drink Gatorade. :roll: Go Noles!
Wow! That is amazing that someone in America actually thinks this way!
It is a sad, sad day. There is a reason socialism does not and has not ever worked. Wake up people.
I disagree. To me, it is warped thinking.
I'm not misinterpreting what you're saying. My point is, a 'normal' person would not follow what Ed believes politically. That's what I meant by saying, he's not Jesus. He doesn't change the political landscape. He became famous because he had a talent - singing. He broadened that talent with songwriting. Sure, there's a few people that just follow what he believes politically (why? I have no clue), but in the end, I think they are pretty negligible.
In that sense, his viewpoint is as important as the highschool janitor. And if you're going to argue because he has more money, fine... he's as important as a millionaire banker 20 miles from your house. Both are entitled to thier political opinions, and it's worth just as much, and vice versa. He's a rock singer, not a political guru. His opinion on politics is worth as much as Tom Brady's, for example.... no more.
That's fantastic that you're immediate family votes conservative. But, no offense, it has very little to do with what I'm saying.
As for "if one is paying attention to EV's causes because one feels the same way, he's a champion, aside from music"... and with that I'd agree. If someone comes to the table and listens to the music, loves it and then learns the band is politically aligned with them... that's one more plus, and is great. But, if another person comes to the table, listen to the music, learns the band is not politically aligned with them... but, yet they look past that, that to me shows that person is open-minded. They see that this rock singer's politics doesn't really matter, because it's music that they were after to begin with. They were after good music, and more than 95% (I'd argue higher) of the lyrics don't overtly stand against their political ideology.
You have a right to be surprised that a 10c member would be a right-winger. And that fan club member has the right to say that you may be a bigot based on what you've said here (that's where the controversy came from, your post). I know, that may be (and probably is) a bit extreme... but, here's the definition:
A bigot is a person obstinately or intolerantly devoted to his or her own opinions and prejudices, especially one exhibiting intolerance, and animosity toward those of differing beliefs.
It's worth thinking about.
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The fire department, the police department, public schools, state colleges and universities, Medicare, Medicaid, social security, the roads you drive on = all examples of socialism. You know, in case you're not familiar with what it means. God, I'm arguing with Pearl Jam fans about politics.
Conversely, and with all due respect to the band and my fellow liberals, I'd say that PJ does align with quite a few conservative/capitalist values these days, particularly when it comes to high ticket prices and the Kiss-like merchandising of everything from socks to keychains to lighters to God knows what's next. That's what happens when you gain membership into the 1%, I suppose.
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Amsterdam - June 26-27, 2012
Berlin - July 4-5, 2012
Why is it amazing that someone in America thinks this way? As I stated earlier, Richard Nixon supported far more "left-wing" policies than Obama currently does. Ronald Reagan would have been trounced in this primary a long time ago. It is just a shifting to the right over the past 40 years that makes people think that the wealthy paying 39% in taxes is socialism, or, as Rick Santorum recently stated, that wanting kids to go to college is snobbish. I think your political mindset is based in the NOW without recognizing how we got to the NOW.
I had some stuff to say about all this, but then honestly happened to stumble upon some other posts by you - a certain little thread where you outline how you're a climate change denier, and you sure pulled out all the bells and whistles on that one, and then i read another thing or two, and I realized that there is no point in discussing such matters with you. You are way too well versed in Fox-speak, and I admit that I've never been able to muster the energy or desire to combat your brand of debate. I discover that you have a real knack for this... twisting what others say in opposition to your views and always turning it into them having committed the offence of intolerance of other views, and always phrasing it in ways that give the impression of cool objectivity, when in fact it's anything but. You have the same thing going on all over the forum as it turns out... suddenly I'm just not interested in the debate - such tactics are as off-putting to me as a band that rants about how Obama is a commie during their encore break, lol.
Well, saying a conservative couldn't be a fan of a rock band, seems odd. Maybe bigoted, maybe not.
I'm a climate change "denier"? Because I'm not 100% convinced of AGW. ha ha...
Regardless, that's relevant here, how?
Anyway, you're entitled to your opinion on conservative Pearl Jam fans. I wouldn't fall into that category, as I would probably be categorized as a liberatarian. That said, I do think your viewpoint is semi-bigoted. But, I'll relent.
<object height="81" width="100%"> <param name="movie" value="https://player.soundcloud.com/player.swf?url=http://api.soundcloud.com/tracks/28998869"></param> <param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param> <embed allowscriptaccess="always" height="81" src="https://player.soundcloud.com/player.swf?url=http://api.soundcloud.com/tracks/28998869" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" width="100%"></embed> </object> <span><a href=" - In the Fire (demo)</a> by <a href="
I'm not in America and am not American, sort of the classic American blinkered view that their way is the only way that works. it really isn't. and clearly it's not working too well either.
+1
The nations fairing the best now are those with systems much closer to socialism than America, I.e. Canada, Norway, Sweden... but there is always a balance that needs to be met, or else you tip over like Spain, Greece, and France isn't doing so well either. But one thing is for sure: the level of capitalism America has going is not working for them. It can't. The corporate greed combined with the government corruption re kickbacks and special interests causes the American capitalist system to be destructive to its population in the long run. And seriously... people go bankrupt and lose their homes because they get cancer in the US. wtf is up with that??? I think anyone against universal healthcare has to just be totally blind to the reality of what some people go through without it. Imagine, supporting a system where people can get rich off of denying healthcare.
Stick to golf, man.
Fire dept is a socialist institution?
This is great...