First, redrock...s'ok, and no worries here. I get it.
And see, he still stands...I get it too, what you said. I care about, and value, my mom's opinion...but at this point in my life, it doesn't guide me (she's already laid that foundation).
I respect it though - it affects me (and damnitall when I allow selfimposed guilt to make its way in - but that's a mother-daughter thing, not really applicable for me in day-to-day life).
I've learned - tried - to not place much weight on the opinions of others, save for those whose opinions DO hold weight, which do matter...to me.
Exactly.
meh. no. i don't care what my mother thinks. i love her to freakin' death, but if she doesn't approve, that doesn't bother me. i'll still love her unconditionally.
my life and my actions are not for others' approval. NO ONE. i do things the way i do them for my own reasons, and i think almost all of them are selfless and "good" by any definition. so, by living by my own ideals, i naturally have the acceptance of others (which doesn't matter).
I don't think it's a question of approval/acceptance, more of guidance maybe? If someone I respect greatly would tell me, for example, don't wear orange - doesn't look good on you, I would probably take the comment into consideration but still make up my own mind. If someone in the street told me orange looked crap on me, I really wouldn't care. Bad example, I know but it's just to show that some judgements/opinions can be valuable. Again, you take the info, digest it and regurgitate as you wish.
First, redrock...s'ok, and no worries here. I get it.
And see, he still stands...I get it too, what you said. I care about, and value, my mom's opinion...but at this point in my life, it doesn't guide me (she's already laid that foundation).
I respect it though - it affects me (and damnitall when I allow selfimposed guilt to make its way in - but that's a mother-daughter thing, not really applicable for me in day-to-day life).
yeah, i do care about my mom's opinion. i'm not saying that i don't value what she thinks... i'm just saying i don't let that determine my life's actions. i certainly can listen to anyone's advice and if it is sound, i'll run with it. i'm just saying that *unsolicited* judgment is meaningless to me.
and yeah, the self-imposed guilt thing creeps in all the time. it is the psychological imprinting of when you were a child - the archetypes of parental/moral responsibility. that is mostly a good thing i think, if not i think it is possible to recreate these imprints that are undesirable.
Everything not forbidden is compulsory and eveything not compulsory is forbidden. You are free... free to do what the government says you can do.
sadly, I think that judgments happen all the time, and as someone else said, it is human nature. I think it sucks though when/if it is based on ignorant stereotypes or generalizations. I try not to be judgmental, but sometimes it happens, and often I find that I was wrong once I get to know the person better (and it seems that first impressions are almost never what they seem). I do, however, think that 'judgments' and 'intuition' are not the same thing.
I think its a good reflective question. Isn't there always someone saying to you, "Well, why did you do that?" "Why didn't you do this?" So very easy for someone else to run your life or make your decisions or to question the way you do things. I always reply "Wow, I wish my life could run as easily as you seem to think it should."
We don't know what lies behind closed doors, most people hide pain well or unhappiness. One makes a decision & then has to live with it & all of the domino aspects right? Maybe some judge others because they don't want to delve too deeply into themselves. Well geez, now I'm thinking on my day-off But thats ok, don't judge me
I always knew I loved and needed mine of course but now that she is gone ...
I'd give anything for one of her hugs and a few encouraging words again!
:( this is touching. I try to keep this in mind, and I'm sure that one day I will feel the same way. Thankfully, I still have her, and try to give and get lots of hugs. (my dad, too).
First, redrock...s'ok, and no worries here. I get it.
And see, he still stands...I get it too, what you said. I care about, and value, my mom's opinion...but at this point in my life, it doesn't guide me (she's already laid that foundation).
I respect it though - it affects me (and damnitall when I allow selfimposed guilt to make its way in - but that's a mother-daughter thing, not really applicable for me in day-to-day life).
yeah, i do care about my mom's opinion. i'm not saying that i don't value what she thinks... i'm just saying i don't let that determine my life's actions. i certainly can listen to anyone's advice and if it is sound, i'll run with it. i'm just saying that *unsolicited* judgment is meaningless to me.
and yeah, the self-imposed guilt thing creeps in all the time. it is the psychological imprinting of when you were a child - the archetypes of parental/moral responsibility. that is mostly a good thing i think, if not i think it is possible to recreate these imprints that are undesirable.
Well said, I still listen to my mother but I don't always do what she suggests. I talk to my father more often and look to him for support. That may have something with how we view politics.
I think its a good reflective question. Isn't there always someone saying to you, "Well, why did you do that?" "Why didn't you do this?" So very easy for someone else to run your life or make your decisions or to question the way you do things. I always reply "Wow, I wish my life could run as easily as you seem to think it should."
We don't know what lies behind closed doors, most people hide pain well or unhappiness. One makes a decision & then has to live with it & all of the domino aspects right? Maybe some judge others because they don't want to delve too deeply into themselves. Well geez, now I'm thinking on my day-off But thats ok, don't judge me
It's a day off here too. Thanks for this post...loved your words.
And, agreed on the entire mom thing...I apply it to dads too...mine
We don't know what lies behind closed doors, most people hide pain well or unhappiness. One makes a decision & then has to live with it & all of the domino aspects right? Maybe some judge others because they don't want to delve too deeply into themselves. Well geez, now I'm thinking on my day-off But thats ok, don't judge me
I think you may be on to something here. It's why bullies bully, right? Because of insecurity in themselves? So we may judge because it's a lot easier to do that than to look within and and evaluate and solve our own problems...
I think you may be on to something here. It's why bullies bully, right? Because of insecurity in themselves? So we may judge because it's a lot easier to do that than to look within and and evaluate and solve our own problems...
Just so I think. I've worked with kids for twenty years. I have seen it all. The most unhappiest are the first to throw it out there. Usually, those are the ones most crying out for love too. I have found the tiniest bit of attention does wonders & I've see miracle transformations.
My God-child was pretty upset at a few people in her life causing her heart-ache. We had a talk about levels of conscienceness. I told her truly good people will be hurt more because they have a good heart, & to embrace it knowing she is a wonderful, kind & loving girl. But, you just need to develop the tools necessary in dealing with this type of hurt.
We don't know what lies behind closed doors, most people hide pain well or unhappiness. One makes a decision & then has to live with it & all of the domino aspects right? Maybe some judge others because they don't want to delve too deeply into themselves. Well geez, now I'm thinking on my day-off But thats ok, don't judge me
I think you may be on to something here. It's why bullies bully, right? Because of insecurity in themselves? So we may judge because it's a lot easier to do that than to look within and and evaluate and solve our own problems...
I think these are accurate situations at times. Conversely, I think it can also happen when someone thinks a little too highly of him/herself, and is egocentric and lacks empathy. This may possibly come back to insecurities, but not always (maybe more of a lack of insight).
right on guys. and i'm going to judge you all by saying you all fucking rock! judgment made!
(sorry, i must be off my meds today)
hey... that's an awesome point though ... when it is positive its not a judgment
its a compliment
Yep, not a judgement, a feel-good moment :thumbup:
yes ... we need more of those!
who mentioned wonderful fathers too ... :thumbup:
mine the least judgmental person I have known and the most optimistic too
miss him daily and try to keep that spirit with me moving me in the right direction
0
brianlux
Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 42,429
Great thread, hedonist. Interesting discussion, everybody.
Hopefully as we get older we learn to make judgments based on good critical thinking, an accumulation of experience and a little skepticism thrown in. It's also helpful to learn the fine art of discrimination- sorting what's most true from what's most false.
The hardest part is not coming off sounding like you're trying to" baffle them with bullshit" which is what concerns me most about some of my responses. 'ts ok- you can call me on that any time.
"Pretty cookies, heart squares all around, yeah!" -Eddie Vedder, "Smile"
I think often the judgmental person feels the need to make a conclusion that someone is 'bad' because if they don't, they feel they are somehow approving and allowing the behavior that the person may have done. I think it makes the judgmental person feel better, but at the same time they are giving themselves a false, self-righteous sense of power.
I think Paterno's involvement in the Penn State scandal was interesting example of this, especially after he died. There was a push to conclude that Joe was either good, or he was bad. Maybe concluding either way made it easier for people to digest the situation, because sitting there thinking "here's the good things Joe did, here's the bad things he did" doesn't bring a sense of comfort and it just keeps your brain stirring. But of course, intellectually we all know we're a mix of good and bad.
The full saying is "judge not, lest ye be judged" I believe.
Personally, I don't think the origin was to say not to judge. Not at all. I think it was simply saying, don't judge unless you're sure about something and are willing to be judged yourself regarding that act/etc.
I don't like when people use this to say that you can't judge anyone, ever. That wasn't it's purpose, and (to me) is an asinine assertion. Instead, I think it was meant to weed out the hypocrites, who do a lot of judging, yet do the stuff their judging others for themselves.
The full saying is "judge not, lest ye be judged" I believe.
Personally, I don't think the origin was to say not to judge. Not at all. I think it was simply saying, don't judge unless you're sure about something and are willing to be judged yourself regarding that act/etc.
I don't like when people use this to say that you can't judge anyone, ever. That wasn't it's purpose, and (to me) is an asinine assertion. Instead, I think it was meant to weed out the hypocrites, who do a lot of judging, yet do the stuff their judging others for themselves.
We have some of those types here too Of course, maybe they're having a bad day, um, er life. Ya, that's it!
I think we do all judge & have opinions which vary depending on heat of the moment, anger levels which fluctuate from moment to moment etc. My husband & I discuss all of this when we get home, get it out, state our opinions, whether insane, mild or just plain wrong, we swear at people, call them names & feel much better when done. Only then do we conclude & concur that stupid people really do think everyone else is as stupid as they are & we ultimately forgive them their stupidity. Just kiddin'....or am I :shifty:
My point is, its wonderful finding that person you can have a discussion like that with. Instead of having that type of discussion & having it repeated with dramatic emphasis. We usually end up laughing our asses off. I really hate to say Kenny Rogers was right, know when to hold em, when to fold em, when to walk away & when to run.
Funny, I was thinking about social concepts a couple of weeks ago & came across the definition of compassion on Wikipedia, I've pasted it if interested. I thought it was great.
We have some of those types here too Of course, maybe they're having a bad day, um, er life. Ya, that's it!
I think we do all judge & have opinions which vary depending on heat of the moment, anger levels which fluctuate from moment to moment etc. My husband & I discuss all of this when we get home, get it out, state our opinions, whether insane, mild or just plain wrong, we swear at people, call them names & feel much better when done. Only then do we conclude & concur that stupid people really do think everyone else is as stupid as they are & we ultimately forgive them their stupidity. Just kiddin'....or am I :shifty:
My point is, its wonderful finding that person you can have a discussion like that with. Instead of having that type of discussion & having it repeated with dramatic emphasis. We usually end up laughing our asses off. I really hate to say Kenny Rogers was right, know when to hold em, when to fold em, when to walk away & when to run.
Funny, I was thinking about social concepts a couple of weeks ago & came across the definition of compassion on Wikipedia, I've pasted it if interested. I thought it was great.
I like your thoughts and link thanks!
Great perspective
My daughter came on her birthday to visit.. we had the news on and Newt came on
the adorable 26 year old with her cherub innocent face
says Mom "he just looks like an evil gnome to me" and makes a witch face and motions with her hands
it has stayed wth me now whenever I see him I just picture a gnome hat and curled toe boots
Great thread, hedonist. Interesting discussion, everybody.
Hopefully as we get older we learn to make judgments based on good critical thinking, an accumulation of experience and a little skepticism thrown in. It's also helpful to learn the fine art of discrimination- sorting what's most true from what's most false.
The hardest part is not coming off sounding like you're trying to" baffle them with bullshit" which is what concerns me most about some of my responses. 'ts ok- you can call me on that any time.
It's hard to judge how we come across to others. Like your post Brian, you think you're baffling us with bullshit, but I know I don't see your posts that way. Don't be so hard on yourself!
I have to thank you all (Beavers and inlet, yes! Excellent points).
It's one of the aspects of this place that I love...may not agree but want - need - to get different perspectives. The old "knowledge is a tree" thing. It helps me.
And brianlux, I hear ya. I feel that sometimes about myself - the bullshit thing. Then again, you can't go wrong with honesty (well, you can, but...you know what I mean).
Comments
And see, he still stands...I get it too, what you said. I care about, and value, my mom's opinion...but at this point in my life, it doesn't guide me (she's already laid that foundation).
I respect it though - it affects me (and damnitall when I allow selfimposed guilt to make its way in - but that's a mother-daughter thing, not really applicable for me in day-to-day life).
I don't think it's a question of approval/acceptance, more of guidance maybe? If someone I respect greatly would tell me, for example, don't wear orange - doesn't look good on you, I would probably take the comment into consideration but still make up my own mind. If someone in the street told me orange looked crap on me, I really wouldn't care. Bad example, I know but it's just to show that some judgements/opinions can be valuable. Again, you take the info, digest it and regurgitate as you wish.
yeah, i do care about my mom's opinion. i'm not saying that i don't value what she thinks... i'm just saying i don't let that determine my life's actions. i certainly can listen to anyone's advice and if it is sound, i'll run with it. i'm just saying that *unsolicited* judgment is meaningless to me.
and yeah, the self-imposed guilt thing creeps in all the time. it is the psychological imprinting of when you were a child - the archetypes of parental/moral responsibility. that is mostly a good thing i think, if not i think it is possible to recreate these imprints that are undesirable.
Moms are the greatest and most think they know their children oh so well
and most don't judge
Moms the closest to God's love
I'd give anything for one of her hugs and a few encouraging words again!
I think its a good reflective question. Isn't there always someone saying to you, "Well, why did you do that?" "Why didn't you do this?" So very easy for someone else to run your life or make your decisions or to question the way you do things. I always reply "Wow, I wish my life could run as easily as you seem to think it should."
We don't know what lies behind closed doors, most people hide pain well or unhappiness. One makes a decision & then has to live with it & all of the domino aspects right? Maybe some judge others because they don't want to delve too deeply into themselves. Well geez, now I'm thinking on my day-off
yeah, moms don't judge. and i completely agree - it is the closest thing to God's love... it is perfect love.
with that sort of love one doesn't judge others, so we should live up to that ideal with everyone, no?
Well said, I still listen to my mother but I don't always do what she suggests. I talk to my father more often and look to him for support. That may have something with how we view politics.
And, agreed on the entire mom thing...I apply it to dads too...mine
I think you may be on to something here. It's why bullies bully, right? Because of insecurity in themselves? So we may judge because it's a lot easier to do that than to look within and and evaluate and solve our own problems...
My God-child was pretty upset at a few people in her life causing her heart-ache. We had a talk about levels of conscienceness. I told her truly good people will be hurt more because they have a good heart, & to embrace it knowing she is a wonderful, kind & loving girl. But, you just need to develop the tools necessary in dealing with this type of hurt.
(sorry, i must be off my meds today)
its a compliment
who mentioned wonderful fathers too ... :thumbup:
mine the least judgmental person I have known and the most optimistic too
miss him daily and try to keep that spirit with me moving me in the right direction
Hopefully as we get older we learn to make judgments based on good critical thinking, an accumulation of experience and a little skepticism thrown in. It's also helpful to learn the fine art of discrimination- sorting what's most true from what's most false.
The hardest part is not coming off sounding like you're trying to" baffle them with bullshit" which is what concerns me most about some of my responses. 'ts ok- you can call me on that any time.
-Eddie Vedder, "Smile"
I think Paterno's involvement in the Penn State scandal was interesting example of this, especially after he died. There was a push to conclude that Joe was either good, or he was bad. Maybe concluding either way made it easier for people to digest the situation, because sitting there thinking "here's the good things Joe did, here's the bad things he did" doesn't bring a sense of comfort and it just keeps your brain stirring. But of course, intellectually we all know we're a mix of good and bad.
My take:
The full saying is "judge not, lest ye be judged" I believe.
Personally, I don't think the origin was to say not to judge. Not at all. I think it was simply saying, don't judge unless you're sure about something and are willing to be judged yourself regarding that act/etc.
I don't like when people use this to say that you can't judge anyone, ever. That wasn't it's purpose, and (to me) is an asinine assertion. Instead, I think it was meant to weed out the hypocrites, who do a lot of judging, yet do the stuff their judging others for themselves.
Example: Newt Gingrich.
<object height="81" width="100%"> <param name="movie" value="https://player.soundcloud.com/player.swf?url=http://api.soundcloud.com/tracks/28998869"></param> <param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param> <embed allowscriptaccess="always" height="81" src="https://player.soundcloud.com/player.swf?url=http://api.soundcloud.com/tracks/28998869" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" width="100%"></embed> </object> <span><a href=" - In the Fire (demo)</a> by <a href="
once you think of that it's hard to let it go
I like your post
I think we do all judge & have opinions which vary depending on heat of the moment, anger levels which fluctuate from moment to moment etc. My husband & I discuss all of this when we get home, get it out, state our opinions, whether insane, mild or just plain wrong, we swear at people, call them names & feel much better when done.
My point is, its wonderful finding that person you can have a discussion like that with. Instead of having that type of discussion & having it repeated with dramatic emphasis. We usually end up laughing our asses off. I really hate to say Kenny Rogers was right, know when to hold em, when to fold em, when to walk away & when to run.
Funny, I was thinking about social concepts a couple of weeks ago & came across the definition of compassion on Wikipedia, I've pasted it if interested. I thought it was great.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compassion
Great perspective
My daughter came on her birthday to visit.. we had the news on and Newt came on
the adorable 26 year old with her cherub innocent face
says Mom "he just looks like an evil gnome to me" and makes a witch face and motions with her hands
it has stayed wth me now whenever I see him I just picture a gnome hat and curled toe boots
I know judgmental of me...
It's hard to judge how we come across to others.
It's one of the aspects of this place that I love...may not agree but want - need - to get different perspectives. The old "knowledge is a tree" thing. It helps me.
And brianlux, I hear ya. I feel that sometimes about myself - the bullshit thing. Then again, you can't go wrong with honesty (well, you can, but...you know what I mean).