The National Football League

16176186206226231174

Comments

  • pjsteelerfan
    pjsteelerfan Maryland Posts: 9,905
    JK_Livin said:
    Poncier said:
    JK_Livin said:
    Maybe the Chiefs shouldn't have settled for the FG. Maybe they should've tried one more toss or 2 to the endzone. Don't put your fate in a coin when you do have an option.
    I was surprised they kicked on 2nd down with 11 seconds left. Should have taken at least one more shot at the end zone...but then again, Andy Reid, so I shouldn't have been that surprised.

    And why is nobody upset about how overtime played out in the NFC game? Saints won the toss, took the ball...and lost!


    It's too easy to ignore the OT of the NFC game.
    I've been against it for a long time. Even in regular season games shockingly enough. 

    And there is a lot going on about that NFC game outside of the OT. 
    ...got a mind full of questions and a teacher in my soul...
  • Poncier
    Poncier Posts: 17,911
    pjhawks said:
    JK_Livin said:
    So if each team scores a td on their 1st possessions in OT , the team that scored 1st gets the ball again. Why is that fair then? The cycle will just continue. It fine the way it is. It's big boy professional football. I equate people that want to change the OT rules to people wanting participation trophies.
    a team that win's the coin toss in overtime has a higher percentage to win than the team that loses the toss because of the rule that a TD wins it. is it fair to give one team a greater mathematical chance to win a game because of the coin toss?  Especially in a playoff game?  you have to be crazy to think that is ok. 
    The team winning the coin toss has won 52.7% of the time since they changed the rule in 2012 to require a TD to win on the opening possession. That's statistically a toss up.
    This weekend we rock Portland
  • Poncier said:
    pjhawks said:
    JK_Livin said:
    So if each team scores a td on their 1st possessions in OT , the team that scored 1st gets the ball again. Why is that fair then? The cycle will just continue. It fine the way it is. It's big boy professional football. I equate people that want to change the OT rules to people wanting participation trophies.
    a team that win's the coin toss in overtime has a higher percentage to win than the team that loses the toss because of the rule that a TD wins it. is it fair to give one team a greater mathematical chance to win a game because of the coin toss?  Especially in a playoff game?  you have to be crazy to think that is ok. 
    The team winning the coin toss has won 52.7% of the time since they changed the rule in 2012 to require a TD to win on the opening possession. That's statistically a toss up.
    Boom
    "My brain's a good brain!"
  • The Juggler
    The Juggler Posts: 49,598
    edited January 2019
    tbergs said:
    And for what it's worth, people dissing Belichek as not factoring in to the team being successful must not have ever suffered under poor coaching in any sport they played. An individual player in any sport can be great and lead his or her team to a successful season, but more often than not, they need a great coach to achieve a championship. I saw someone mention Phil Jackson as an example of someone benefitting from having great players, but it goes both ways. Neither the Lakers nor Bulls would have won as many championships (and weren't) without Jackson at the helm. A great coach also can't make a championship team with only 1 good player. The system Belichek created in NE works just as well as the system Jackson created in Chicago and LA worked. Lebron is a great player, but how many championships would he have if he had played for a team coached by someone like Jackson? A hell of a lot more. How about Malone and Stockton? There are examples all over sports history of players and coaches hosed by lacking the right chemistry in the locker room coupled with a great leader. We usually only hear about the players being hosed, but there are a lot of great coaches who suffered under subpar talent or egotistical stars and never got a championship before being canned or retiring. 
    This is all correct.

    And there's only one person dissing Belichek here....
    www.myspace.com
  • pjhawks
    pjhawks Posts: 12,951
    Poncier said:
    pjhawks said:
    JK_Livin said:
    So if each team scores a td on their 1st possessions in OT , the team that scored 1st gets the ball again. Why is that fair then? The cycle will just continue. It fine the way it is. It's big boy professional football. I equate people that want to change the OT rules to people wanting participation trophies.
    a team that win's the coin toss in overtime has a higher percentage to win than the team that loses the toss because of the rule that a TD wins it. is it fair to give one team a greater mathematical chance to win a game because of the coin toss?  Especially in a playoff game?  you have to be crazy to think that is ok. 
    The team winning the coin toss has won 52.7% of the time since they changed the rule in 2012 to require a TD to win on the opening possession. That's statistically a toss up.
    would you bet your life on 2.7% of a chance? 2.7% is actually what has occurred and not the % of the team winning the coin toss has of winning.  it's probably not a significantly percentage difference but even if it is around 2.7% what i said above is correct. the team winning the toss has a higher mathematical chance to win the game because of the stupid TD wins the game rule. even if it's small is that fair in a playoff game?
  • The Juggler
    The Juggler Posts: 49,598
    Poncier said:
    pjhawks said:
    JK_Livin said:
    So if each team scores a td on their 1st possessions in OT , the team that scored 1st gets the ball again. Why is that fair then? The cycle will just continue. It fine the way it is. It's big boy professional football. I equate people that want to change the OT rules to people wanting participation trophies.
    a team that win's the coin toss in overtime has a higher percentage to win than the team that loses the toss because of the rule that a TD wins it. is it fair to give one team a greater mathematical chance to win a game because of the coin toss?  Especially in a playoff game?  you have to be crazy to think that is ok. 
    The team winning the coin toss has won 52.7% of the time since they changed the rule in 2012 to require a TD to win on the opening possession. That's statistically a toss up.
    Boom
    Yeah I don't get all the crying about it. It could be better but I like the way it's set up now. You lose the toss? Boohoo. Don't let the other team drive all the way down the field and score a touch down. Man up and play some defense. 

    I have a hard time thinking of fans back in the 60's and 70's whining about sudden death...
    www.myspace.com
  • Poncier
    Poncier Posts: 17,911
    pjhawks said:
    Poncier said:
    pjhawks said:
    JK_Livin said:
    So if each team scores a td on their 1st possessions in OT , the team that scored 1st gets the ball again. Why is that fair then? The cycle will just continue. It fine the way it is. It's big boy professional football. I equate people that want to change the OT rules to people wanting participation trophies.
    a team that win's the coin toss in overtime has a higher percentage to win than the team that loses the toss because of the rule that a TD wins it. is it fair to give one team a greater mathematical chance to win a game because of the coin toss?  Especially in a playoff game?  you have to be crazy to think that is ok. 
    The team winning the coin toss has won 52.7% of the time since they changed the rule in 2012 to require a TD to win on the opening possession. That's statistically a toss up.
    would you bet your life on 2.7% of a chance? 2.7% is actually what has occurred and not the % of the team winning the coin toss has of winning.  it's probably not a significantly percentage difference but even if it is around 2.7% what i said above is correct. the team winning the toss has a higher mathematical chance to win the game because of the stupid TD wins the game rule. even if it's small is that fair in a playoff game?
    Well one side is going to have a higher percentage, but as I said a 2.7% advantage is statistically nil.
    In 2 years it could possibly flip to where its 48.9% for the team winning the toss, then what?

    If the "advantage" was like 20%, you'd have a valid argument.
    This weekend we rock Portland
  • pjhawks
    pjhawks Posts: 12,951
    tbergs said:
    And for what it's worth, people dissing Belichek as not factoring in to the team being successful must not have ever suffered under poor coaching in any sport they played. An individual player in any sport can be great and lead his or her team to a successful season, but more often than not, they need a great coach to achieve a championship. I saw someone mention Phil Jackson as an example of someone benefitting from having great players, but it goes both ways. Neither the Lakers nor Bulls would have won as many championships (and weren't) without Jackson at the helm. A great coach also can't make a championship team with only 1 good player. The system Belichek created in NE works just as well as the system Jackson created in Chicago and LA worked. Lebron is a great player, but how many championships would he have if he had played for a team coached by someone like Jackson? A hell of a lot more. How about Malone and Stockton? There are examples all over sports history of players and coaches hosed by lacking the right chemistry in the locker room coupled with a great leader. We usually only hear about the players being hosed, but there are a lot of great coaches who suffered under subpar talent or egotistical stars and never got a championship before being canned or retiring. 
    This is all correct.

    And there's only one person dissing Belichek here....
    where the fuck am i dissing Belichick? jeezus you got a be a fucking moron to think he's not winning more because he has the greatest QB of all fucking time.  My god is this hard to fucking understand?  did Phil Jackson not win more because he had Michael fucking Jordan? even you can't be that fucking dumb or stubborn to admit that.  my god...
  • F Me In The Brain
    F Me In The Brain this knows everybody from other commets Posts: 31,855
    Poncier said:
    pjhawks said:
    JK_Livin said:
    So if each team scores a td on their 1st possessions in OT , the team that scored 1st gets the ball again. Why is that fair then? The cycle will just continue. It fine the way it is. It's big boy professional football. I equate people that want to change the OT rules to people wanting participation trophies.
    a team that win's the coin toss in overtime has a higher percentage to win than the team that loses the toss because of the rule that a TD wins it. is it fair to give one team a greater mathematical chance to win a game because of the coin toss?  Especially in a playoff game?  you have to be crazy to think that is ok. 
    The team winning the coin toss has won 52.7% of the time since they changed the rule in 2012 to require a TD to win on the opening possession. That's statistically a toss up.
    Boom
    Yeah I don't get all the crying about it. It could be better but I like the way it's set up now. You lose the toss? Boohoo. Don't let the other team drive all the way down the field and score a touch down. Man up and play some defense. 

    I have a hard time thinking of fans back in the 60's and 70's whining about sudden death...
    This.


    The love he receives is the love that is saved

  • Worcester1 13, Worcester2 13, Hartford 13, San Diego 13, Los Angeles1 13, Los Angeles2 13
    Trieste 14, Vienna 14, Gdynia 14, Leeds 14, Milton Keynes 14, Denver 14
    Central Park 15
    Fort Lauderdale 16, Miami 16, Tampa 16, Jacksonville 16, Greenville 16, Hampton 16, Columbia 16, Lexington 16, Philly1 16, Philly2 16, NYC1 16, NYC2 16, Quebec City 16, Ottawa 16, Toronto1 16, Toronto2 16, Fenway1 16, Fenway2 16, Wrigley1 16, Wrigley2 16


  • tbergs
    tbergs Posts: 10,442

    HAHA!
    It's a hopeless situation...
  • tbergs
    tbergs Posts: 10,442
    pjhawks said:
    tbergs said:
    And for what it's worth, people dissing Belichek as not factoring in to the team being successful must not have ever suffered under poor coaching in any sport they played. An individual player in any sport can be great and lead his or her team to a successful season, but more often than not, they need a great coach to achieve a championship. I saw someone mention Phil Jackson as an example of someone benefitting from having great players, but it goes both ways. Neither the Lakers nor Bulls would have won as many championships (and weren't) without Jackson at the helm. A great coach also can't make a championship team with only 1 good player. The system Belichek created in NE works just as well as the system Jackson created in Chicago and LA worked. Lebron is a great player, but how many championships would he have if he had played for a team coached by someone like Jackson? A hell of a lot more. How about Malone and Stockton? There are examples all over sports history of players and coaches hosed by lacking the right chemistry in the locker room coupled with a great leader. We usually only hear about the players being hosed, but there are a lot of great coaches who suffered under subpar talent or egotistical stars and never got a championship before being canned or retiring. 
    This is all correct.

    And there's only one person dissing Belichek here....
    where the fuck am i dissing Belichick? jeezus you got a be a fucking moron to think he's not winning more because he has the greatest QB of all fucking time.  My god is this hard to fucking understand?  did Phil Jackson not win more because he had Michael fucking Jordan? even you can't be that fucking dumb or stubborn to admit that.  my god...
    Well, would Tom have as many rings if Andy Reid or Marty Schottenheimer was his coach? Hell no. They all benefited from having each other and that coach, and GM in most cases, helped build the team they needed.
    It's a hopeless situation...
  • pjhawks
    pjhawks Posts: 12,951
    tbergs said:
    pjhawks said:
    tbergs said:
    And for what it's worth, people dissing Belichek as not factoring in to the team being successful must not have ever suffered under poor coaching in any sport they played. An individual player in any sport can be great and lead his or her team to a successful season, but more often than not, they need a great coach to achieve a championship. I saw someone mention Phil Jackson as an example of someone benefitting from having great players, but it goes both ways. Neither the Lakers nor Bulls would have won as many championships (and weren't) without Jackson at the helm. A great coach also can't make a championship team with only 1 good player. The system Belichek created in NE works just as well as the system Jackson created in Chicago and LA worked. Lebron is a great player, but how many championships would he have if he had played for a team coached by someone like Jackson? A hell of a lot more. How about Malone and Stockton? There are examples all over sports history of players and coaches hosed by lacking the right chemistry in the locker room coupled with a great leader. We usually only hear about the players being hosed, but there are a lot of great coaches who suffered under subpar talent or egotistical stars and never got a championship before being canned or retiring. 
    This is all correct.

    And there's only one person dissing Belichek here....
    where the fuck am i dissing Belichick? jeezus you got a be a fucking moron to think he's not winning more because he has the greatest QB of all fucking time.  My god is this hard to fucking understand?  did Phil Jackson not win more because he had Michael fucking Jordan? even you can't be that fucking dumb or stubborn to admit that.  my god...
    Well, would Tom have as many rings if Andy Reid or Marty Schottenheimer was his coach? Hell no. They all benefited from having each other and that coach, and GM in most cases, helped build the team they needed.
    Brady has a better chance of having the same number or rings with almost any other coach than Belichick has of have as many with any other QB.  how is this even disputable?  

    is there QB around you think Belichick was winning this many AFC Titles other than Brady?   isn't the 14 games under .500 before Brady took over a telling stat?

  • F Me In The Brain
    F Me In The Brain this knows everybody from other commets Posts: 31,855
    Brady is great, amazing.  Everyone agrees.  Even people who hate football love Tom Brady.
    Tom Brady is the greatest quarterback that god ever created.
    If Tom Brady wants to build a wall, who are we to say no?



    In all seriousness, Brady is great.

    Bad Bill is the best coach I have ever seen and I give him more credit than Brady.  Does not mean that I poo on Brady -- he is great.  May be the greatest QB of all time.  I think there is a better case for other QBs being nearly as great as TB12 as other coaches being nearly as great as BBAngry.  Bad Bill is miles beyond any other head coach given how much more complex everything in football is these days and how he has sustained excellence for these years.
    The love he receives is the love that is saved
  • Brady is great, amazing.  Everyone agrees.  Even people who hate football love Tom Brady.
    Tom Brady is the greatest quarterback that god ever created.
    If Tom Brady wants to build a wall, who are we to say no?



    In all seriousness, Brady is great.

    Bad Bill is the best coach I have ever seen and I give him more credit than Brady.  Does not mean that I poo on Brady -- he is great.  May be the greatest QB of all time.  I think there is a better case for other QBs being nearly as great as TB12 as other coaches being nearly as great as BBAngry.  Bad Bill is miles beyond any other head coach given how much more complex everything in football is these days and how he has sustained excellence for these years.
    You put TB12 in Cleveland and they ain’t having the same level of success. You put mad bill in Cleveland and they’re not having the same level of success. You put TB12  and mad bill in Cleveland and they’re not having the same level of success. It takes more than the greatest coach and qb of all time. Way more.
    09/15/1998 & 09/16/1998, Mansfield, MA; 08/29/00 08/30/00, Mansfield, MA; 07/02/03, 07/03/03, Mansfield, MA; 09/28/04, 09/29/04, Boston, MA; 09/22/05, Halifax, NS; 05/24/06, 05/25/06, Boston, MA; 07/22/06, 07/23/06, Gorge, WA; 06/27/2008, Hartford; 06/28/08, 06/30/08, Mansfield; 08/18/2009, O2, London, UK; 10/30/09, 10/31/09, Philadelphia, PA; 05/15/10, Hartford, CT; 05/17/10, Boston, MA; 05/20/10, 05/21/10, NY, NY; 06/22/10, Dublin, IRE; 06/23/10, Northern Ireland; 09/03/11, 09/04/11, Alpine Valley, WI; 09/11/11, 09/12/11, Toronto, Ont; 09/14/11, Ottawa, Ont; 09/15/11, Hamilton, Ont; 07/02/2012, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/04/2012 & 07/05/2012, Berlin, Germany; 07/07/2012, Stockholm, Sweden; 09/30/2012, Missoula, MT; 07/16/2013, London, Ont; 07/19/2013, Chicago, IL; 10/15/2013 & 10/16/2013, Worcester, MA; 10/21/2013 & 10/22/2013, Philadelphia, PA; 10/25/2013, Hartford, CT; 11/29/2013, Portland, OR; 11/30/2013, Spokane, WA; 12/04/2013, Vancouver, BC; 12/06/2013, Seattle, WA; 10/03/2014, St. Louis. MO; 10/22/2014, Denver, CO; 10/26/2015, New York, NY; 04/23/2016, New Orleans, LA; 04/28/2016 & 04/29/2016, Philadelphia, PA; 05/01/2016 & 05/02/2016, New York, NY; 05/08/2016, Ottawa, Ont.; 05/10/2016 & 05/12/2016, Toronto, Ont.; 08/05/2016 & 08/07/2016, Boston, MA; 08/20/2016 & 08/22/2016, Chicago, IL; 07/01/2018, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/03/2018, Krakow, Poland; 07/05/2018, Berlin, Germany; 09/02/2018 & 09/04/2018, Boston, MA; 09/08/2022, Toronto, Ont; 09/11/2022, New York, NY; 09/14/2022, Camden, NJ; 09/02/2023, St. Paul, MN; 05/04/2024 & 05/06/2024, Vancouver, BC; 05/10/2024, Portland, OR;

    Libtardaplorable©. And proud of it.

    Brilliantati©
  • mcgruff10
    mcgruff10 New Jersey Posts: 29,138
    Brady is great, amazing.  Everyone agrees.  Even people who hate football love Tom Brady.
    Tom Brady is the greatest quarterback that god ever created.
    If Tom Brady wants to build a wall, who are we to say no?



    In all seriousness, Brady is great.

    Bad Bill is the best coach I have ever seen and I give him more credit than Brady.  Does not mean that I poo on Brady -- he is great.  May be the greatest QB of all time.  I think there is a better case for other QBs being nearly as great as TB12 as other coaches being nearly as great as BBAngry.  Bad Bill is miles beyond any other head coach given how much more complex everything in football is these days and how he has sustained excellence for these years.
    You put TB12 in Cleveland and they ain’t having the same level of success. You put mad bill in Cleveland and they’re not having the same level of success. You put TB12  and mad bill in Cleveland and they’re not having the same level of success. It takes more than the greatest coach and qb of all time. Way more.
    This would be correct. (Why are you and I agreeing so much today?)
    I'll ride the wave where it takes me......
  • tbergs
    tbergs Posts: 10,442
    pjhawks said:
    tbergs said:
    pjhawks said:
    tbergs said:
    And for what it's worth, people dissing Belichek as not factoring in to the team being successful must not have ever suffered under poor coaching in any sport they played. An individual player in any sport can be great and lead his or her team to a successful season, but more often than not, they need a great coach to achieve a championship. I saw someone mention Phil Jackson as an example of someone benefitting from having great players, but it goes both ways. Neither the Lakers nor Bulls would have won as many championships (and weren't) without Jackson at the helm. A great coach also can't make a championship team with only 1 good player. The system Belichek created in NE works just as well as the system Jackson created in Chicago and LA worked. Lebron is a great player, but how many championships would he have if he had played for a team coached by someone like Jackson? A hell of a lot more. How about Malone and Stockton? There are examples all over sports history of players and coaches hosed by lacking the right chemistry in the locker room coupled with a great leader. We usually only hear about the players being hosed, but there are a lot of great coaches who suffered under subpar talent or egotistical stars and never got a championship before being canned or retiring. 
    This is all correct.

    And there's only one person dissing Belichek here....
    where the fuck am i dissing Belichick? jeezus you got a be a fucking moron to think he's not winning more because he has the greatest QB of all fucking time.  My god is this hard to fucking understand?  did Phil Jackson not win more because he had Michael fucking Jordan? even you can't be that fucking dumb or stubborn to admit that.  my god...
    Well, would Tom have as many rings if Andy Reid or Marty Schottenheimer was his coach? Hell no. They all benefited from having each other and that coach, and GM in most cases, helped build the team they needed.
    Brady has a better chance of having the same number or rings with almost any other coach than Belichick has of have as many with any other QB.  how is this even disputable?  

    is there QB around you think Belichick was winning this many AFC Titles other than Brady?   isn't the 14 games under .500 before Brady took over a telling stat?

    I guess we just disagree. How many amazing quarterbacks have either never won a SB or only won 1? Brady is lucky to have played for that coach in that division in that geographic market. It takes vision and true leadership to succeed at that level for that long. Few NFL teams have either.
    It's a hopeless situation...
  • mcgruff10 said:
    Brady is great, amazing.  Everyone agrees.  Even people who hate football love Tom Brady.
    Tom Brady is the greatest quarterback that god ever created.
    If Tom Brady wants to build a wall, who are we to say no?



    In all seriousness, Brady is great.

    Bad Bill is the best coach I have ever seen and I give him more credit than Brady.  Does not mean that I poo on Brady -- he is great.  May be the greatest QB of all time.  I think there is a better case for other QBs being nearly as great as TB12 as other coaches being nearly as great as BBAngry.  Bad Bill is miles beyond any other head coach given how much more complex everything in football is these days and how he has sustained excellence for these years.
    You put TB12 in Cleveland and they ain’t having the same level of success. You put mad bill in Cleveland and they’re not having the same level of success. You put TB12  and mad bill in Cleveland and they’re not having the same level of success. It takes more than the greatest coach and qb of all time. Way more.
    This would be correct. (Why are you and I agreeing so much today?)
    Maybe I had ice in my red wine at lunch this afternoon?
     
    09/15/1998 & 09/16/1998, Mansfield, MA; 08/29/00 08/30/00, Mansfield, MA; 07/02/03, 07/03/03, Mansfield, MA; 09/28/04, 09/29/04, Boston, MA; 09/22/05, Halifax, NS; 05/24/06, 05/25/06, Boston, MA; 07/22/06, 07/23/06, Gorge, WA; 06/27/2008, Hartford; 06/28/08, 06/30/08, Mansfield; 08/18/2009, O2, London, UK; 10/30/09, 10/31/09, Philadelphia, PA; 05/15/10, Hartford, CT; 05/17/10, Boston, MA; 05/20/10, 05/21/10, NY, NY; 06/22/10, Dublin, IRE; 06/23/10, Northern Ireland; 09/03/11, 09/04/11, Alpine Valley, WI; 09/11/11, 09/12/11, Toronto, Ont; 09/14/11, Ottawa, Ont; 09/15/11, Hamilton, Ont; 07/02/2012, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/04/2012 & 07/05/2012, Berlin, Germany; 07/07/2012, Stockholm, Sweden; 09/30/2012, Missoula, MT; 07/16/2013, London, Ont; 07/19/2013, Chicago, IL; 10/15/2013 & 10/16/2013, Worcester, MA; 10/21/2013 & 10/22/2013, Philadelphia, PA; 10/25/2013, Hartford, CT; 11/29/2013, Portland, OR; 11/30/2013, Spokane, WA; 12/04/2013, Vancouver, BC; 12/06/2013, Seattle, WA; 10/03/2014, St. Louis. MO; 10/22/2014, Denver, CO; 10/26/2015, New York, NY; 04/23/2016, New Orleans, LA; 04/28/2016 & 04/29/2016, Philadelphia, PA; 05/01/2016 & 05/02/2016, New York, NY; 05/08/2016, Ottawa, Ont.; 05/10/2016 & 05/12/2016, Toronto, Ont.; 08/05/2016 & 08/07/2016, Boston, MA; 08/20/2016 & 08/22/2016, Chicago, IL; 07/01/2018, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/03/2018, Krakow, Poland; 07/05/2018, Berlin, Germany; 09/02/2018 & 09/04/2018, Boston, MA; 09/08/2022, Toronto, Ont; 09/11/2022, New York, NY; 09/14/2022, Camden, NJ; 09/02/2023, St. Paul, MN; 05/04/2024 & 05/06/2024, Vancouver, BC; 05/10/2024, Portland, OR;

    Libtardaplorable©. And proud of it.

    Brilliantati©
  • The Juggler
    The Juggler Posts: 49,598
    One guy is likely the greatest quarterback of all time. 
    The other guy is likely the greatest coach of all time.

    To disparage one or the other means you're on the wrong side of the argument. 
    www.myspace.com
  • pjhawks
    pjhawks Posts: 12,951
    Brady is great, amazing.  Everyone agrees.  Even people who hate football love Tom Brady.
    Tom Brady is the greatest quarterback that god ever created.
    If Tom Brady wants to build a wall, who are we to say no?



    In all seriousness, Brady is great.

    Bad Bill is the best coach I have ever seen and I give him more credit than Brady.  Does not mean that I poo on Brady -- he is great.  May be the greatest QB of all time.  I think there is a better case for other QBs being nearly as great as TB12 as other coaches being nearly as great as BBAngry.  Bad Bill is miles beyond any other head coach given how much more complex everything in football is these days and how he has sustained excellence for these years.
    14 games under .500 before Brady too over.