i reckon when you see dead bodies everyday you kinda get desensitized to it and you have to joke around in the heavy moments.
those guys are in hell over there. they just got out of a firefight so i doubt that with the adrenaline dump they were thinking very clearly.
still, they killed the guys. i guess it was not enough so they had to piss on them as well...
i hate war.
I read this the other day and agree. I do not defend their actions and these Marines should be properly punished. I just think that when you are in crazy place you have the chance to go crazy.
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if it was peeing on American soldiers the outrage would be insane.
and revenge would be taken
This did happen to Americans when in Mogadishu, they dragged the SF soldier through the town naked. Also when the contractors, I believe Black Water, were torched dismembered and hung in Iraq.
96 Randall's Island II
98 CAA
00 Virginia Beach;Camden I; Jones Beach III
05 Borgata Night I; Wachovia Center
06 Letterman Show; Webcast (guy in blue shirt), Camden I; DC
08 Camden I; Camden II; DC
09 Phillie III
10 MSG II
13 Wrigley Field
16 Phillie II
I am not defending indefensible behavior, but the idea that such behavior is an "American" trait or an "American" problem is absolutely insane. It is a human problem.
I didn't say it was an American problem. Still, what wars of occupation are you referring to with regards China and Korea? Are you talking about China's occupation of Tibet? How about Korea? Do you think the U.S occupied Korea?
Japan occupied both China and Korea with many well-documented examples of bad behavior.
Lots of US troops have been and are still in part of Korea...if it was/is an occupation, don't think that it is a text-book occupation....nowhere near the degree or length of the US occupation of Germany or Japan....or Iraq....or Afghanistan....or that of China's annexation (fancy word for occupation) of Tibet.
All the world will be your enemy, Prince with a thousand enemies, and whenever they catch you, they will kill you. But first they must catch you, digger, listener, runner, prince with the swift warning. Be cunning and full of tricks and your people shall never be destroyed.
if it was peeing on American soldiers the outrage would be insane.
and revenge would be taken
agreed, war is hell-out.
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Put these guy who cant keep their dicks in their pants in prison for awhile.
I don't believe prison is the answer. Prison, like these guys pissing on dead bodies, is just a symptom of the overall system/ideology of this social experiment people call America. It's not even their fault they pissed on these guys. They haven't desensitized themselves. It's a 'gift'.
But let's say for arguments sake, prison was the answer. Now I don't know for sure but a military prison must still have it's chain of command like an american prison, throughout the prisoners, correct?
Anyway, I don't think in any situation where an individual has lost touch with his sense of decency (which would imply he had some at one point), should he then be put into a confined space. He needs someone to talk too. If you think about it, to these guys, pissing on these bodies was cool to do. Think about that if it is in fact true. i.e. Quote from clip: 'Have a good day buddy' after they finish.
Imagine the road to getting to this point though it may be totally clueless for them.
Fuck, I don't know...
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My idea for punishment of the atrocious acts wasn't to just punish the idiots who did this, but to attempt to prevent more brainless dipshits from making the same mistake in the future.. By making them realize that the are repercussions for stupidity. You cant get away with this shit just because you are in a warzone
My idea for punishment of the atrocious acts wasn't to just punish the idiots who did this, but to attempt to prevent more brainless dipshits from making the same mistake in the future.. By making them realize that the are repercussions for stupidity. You cant get away with this shit just because you are in a warzone
I don't believe they're taught not to be stupid. The tactic of 'you'll go to prison' doesn't prevent anything.
What is it John Lennon said ? Something along the lines of 'we practice violence in the open, and love in hiding'
"It doesn't matter what's right. It's only wrong if you get caught" - MJK
1996: Toronto 1998: Barrie 2000: Montreal, Toronto, Auburn Hills 2003: Cleveland, Buffalo, Toronto, Montreal 2004: Boston X2, Grand Rapids 2005: Kitchener, London, Hamilton, Montreal, Ottawa, Toronto 2006: Toronto X2 2009: Toronto 2011: PJ20, Montreal, Toronto X2, Hamilton 2012: Manchester X2, Amsterdam X2, Prague, Berlin X2, Philadelphia, Missoula 2013: Pittsburg, Buffalo 2014: Milan, Trieste, Vienna, Berlin, Stockholm, Oslo, Detroit 2016: Ottawa, Toronto X2 2018: Padova, Rome, Prague, Krakow, Berlin, Barcelona
2022: Ottawa, Hamilton, Toronto 2023: Chicago X2 2024: New York X2
So, should there be a punishment?
It's obviously not working under the current system.. What do you suggest?
See, that's the thing Johnny. What you speak of is the best we've got. That's so f%%ked up!
For current system to change, the current system needs to implode. :shock:
1996: Toronto 1998: Barrie 2000: Montreal, Toronto, Auburn Hills 2003: Cleveland, Buffalo, Toronto, Montreal 2004: Boston X2, Grand Rapids 2005: Kitchener, London, Hamilton, Montreal, Ottawa, Toronto 2006: Toronto X2 2009: Toronto 2011: PJ20, Montreal, Toronto X2, Hamilton 2012: Manchester X2, Amsterdam X2, Prague, Berlin X2, Philadelphia, Missoula 2013: Pittsburg, Buffalo 2014: Milan, Trieste, Vienna, Berlin, Stockholm, Oslo, Detroit 2016: Ottawa, Toronto X2 2018: Padova, Rome, Prague, Krakow, Berlin, Barcelona
2022: Ottawa, Hamilton, Toronto 2023: Chicago X2 2024: New York X2
Severe hatred is generated between two fighting factions. The hatred and rage that exists leads people to express that rage in awful manner. While I obviously don't condone the act, I feel badly for all involved- the Afghanistan people and the Marines are in a brutal situation that I couldn't imagine. I cannot judge their actions because it is too easy for me to do so as I type on my laptop with my morning coffee and weekend off.
I'll also say this: it seems as if people want to hold Americans to the highest standards. The atrocities committed in War are universal. When American soldiers were mutilated in Somalia or Blackwater personnel were desecrated in Fallujah, people generally weren't surprised. It was as if they thought the enemy were inferior human beings and simply incapable of human behaviour adhering to a higher ethical code. When Americans conduct themselves in similar fashion, the world we hear from is shocked at the behaviour- somehow expecting more from what? A higher level human being? Pompous to say the least.
War promotes violence, hatred, and rage- it's not a board game with universal rules that everyone will follow. For example, sometimes people express how brutal the Chechnyan siege of the Beslan school was. While I abhorred the depressing incident, I wondered how the Chechnyans- overwhelmed by a superior Russian enemy- were supposed to fight a war that had them fighting with rubber bands, in sewer tunnels, while ducking missiles ("Come on now. Everyone in plain sight. It's not our fault you have weak air power and shitty missiles!").
Who gives a fuck.. Fuck those terrorist.. They would cut every single persons head off in this forum and not even give a fuck or think twice about doing it. Its amazing how people on here care more about the feelings of people who would kill them and their families than people who are defending us.. With that being said.. Should they have done it ? No they shouldnt have..
Who gives a fuck.. Fuck those terrorist.. They would cut every single persons head off in this forum and not even give a fuck or think twice about doing it. Its amazing how people on here care more about the feelings of people who would kill them and their families than people who are defending us.. With that being said.. Should they have done it ? No they shouldnt have..
I haven't read through this thread, but I was involved in a conversation about this last night and 2 of the people had the reaction of "aw, yeah, that was sooo terrible, shame on them"--dripping with sarcasm. No, I agree they shouldn't have done it...it was just interesting, and somewhat surprising, to hear people saying that; they were definitely condoning it.
Japan occupied both China and Korea with many well-documented examples of bad behavior.
True. And the German occupation of Europe and the Soviet Union also wasn't pretty.
Wars of occupation have the habit of turning the occupiers into barbarians.
...and the occupied sometimes lose the moral high-ground through their reaction to the occupation, but then, who can really blame them.
All the world will be your enemy, Prince with a thousand enemies, and whenever they catch you, they will kill you. But first they must catch you, digger, listener, runner, prince with the swift warning. Be cunning and full of tricks and your people shall never be destroyed.
Who gives a fuck.. Fuck those terrorist.. They would cut every single persons head off in this forum and not even give a fuck or think twice about doing it. Its amazing how people on here care more about the feelings of people who would kill them and their families than people who are defending us.. With that being said.. Should they have done it ? No they shouldnt have..
How do you know they were terrorists? Because they were Afghans?
How do you justify all the random killings of innocent civilians for sport by U.S soldiers in Afghanistan and Iraq?
Japan occupied both China and Korea with many well-documented examples of bad behavior.
True. And the German occupation of Europe and the Soviet Union also wasn't pretty.
Wars of occupation have the habit of turning the occupiers into barbarians.
...and the occupied sometimes lose the moral high-ground through their reaction to the occupation, but then, who can really blame them.
The occupied will always have the moral high-ground for anyone who looks at the situation objectively.
Anyone here seen the movie 'The Battle of Algiers'? It's one of the greatest movies ever made. Features in the top rankings of most 'Best of' polls. It was studied by terrorism 'experts' in the U.S after 9/11 as they wanted to try to understand what inspires 'terrorism'. If you watch the Criterion edition of the movie it includes a few documentary's on the film, including one about these American 'experts' watching it and discussing it. This particular documentary is eye-opening, as it shows just how blinkered and self-serving these U.S experts are. They completely miss the point.
# DISC 1: THE BATTLE OF ALGIERS
# - New high-definition digital transfer, enhanced for widescreen televisions
# DISC 2: PONTECORVO AND THE FILM
# - Gillo Pontecorvo: The Dictatorship of Truth (1992): a 37-minute documentary, narrated by literary critic Edward Said
# - Exclusive 51-minute documentary on the making of The Battle of Algiers, featuring new interviews with the director, cinematographer, composer, editor, actors, and film historians
# - Five Directors (17 mins., 2004): Spike Lee, Mira Nair, Julian Schnabel, Steven Soderbergh, and Oliver Stone on the films influence, style, and importance
# DISC 3: THE FILM AND HISTORY
# - Remembering History (69 mins., 2004): an exclusive documentary that reconstructs the Algerian experience of the battle for independence, featuring interviews with historians and revolutionaries, including military leader Saadi Yacef
# - "Ãtats dârmes" (2002): a 28-minute documentary excerpt featuring senior French military officers recalling the use of torture and execution to combat the rebellion
# - The Battle of Algiers: A Case Study (25 mins., 2004): Richard A. Clarke, former national counterterrorism coordinator and author of Against All Enemies: Inside Americas War on Terror, discusses the films relevance with Michael A. Sheehan, former State Department coordinator for counterterrorism, in a conversation moderated by Christopher E. Isham, chief of investigative projects for ABC News
# - Gillo Pontecorvos Return to Algiers (58 mins., 1992): the filmmaker revisits the Algerian people after three decades of independence
Its amazing how people on here care more about the feelings of people who would kill them and their families than people who are defending us.. With that being said.. Should they have done it ? No they shouldnt have..
Those are some ridiculous assumptions about us. I care more about our soldiers than our enemies, of course, but i loathe stupidity and the backlash their stupidity will certianly cause...again, this will only shake the beehive. It's not about anyones feelings for god sake.
Who gives a fuck.. Fuck those terrorist.. They would cut every single persons head off in this forum and not even give a fuck or think twice about doing it. Its amazing how people on here care more about the feelings of people who would kill them and their families than people who are defending us.. With that being said.. Should they have done it ? No they shouldnt have..
War is hell no doubt but American soldiers seem to abuse even their own fellow soldiers....NOW that's some messed up shit. I'm sure our US soldiers do far worse than peeing on the dead Taliban. FAR WORSE!
*We CAN bomb the World to pieces, but we CAN'T bomb it into PEACE*...Michael Franti
*MUSIC IS the expression of EMOTION.....and that POLITICS IS merely the DECOY of PERCEPTION*
.....song_Music & Politics....Michael Franti
*The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite INSANE*....Nikola Tesla(a man who shaped our world of electricity with his futuristic inventions)
Condemnation of Afghanistan video over the top, says Rick Perry
guardian.co.uk, Sunday 15 January
The Republican presidential hopeful Rick Perry has accused the Obama administration of "over-the-top rhetoric" and "disdain for the military" with its condemnation of a video that purportedly shows four US marines urinating on corpses in Afghanistan.
Perry's comments also put him at odds with Senator John McCain, the top Republican on the Senate armed services committee.
Perry said the marines involved should be reprimanded but not prosecuted on criminal charges.
The Texas governor said on CNN's State of the Union programme: "Obviously, 18 and 19-year-old kids make stupid mistakes all too often. And that's what's occurred here.
"What's really disturbing to me is the kind of over-the-top rhetoric from this administration and their disdain for the military."
McCain, who expressed concern that the images could damage the war effort, had said: "The Marine Corps prides itself that we don't lower ourselves to the level of the enemy. So it makes me sad more than anything else, because … I can't tell you how wonderful these people [marines] are. And it hurts their reputation and their image."
John McCain: "The Marine Corps prides itself that we don't lower ourselves to the level of the enemy."
Isn't it a bit late for that?
It's already known what the Marines did in Vietnam, in Panama, Iraq, and Afghanistan.
Murdering unarmed civilians for sport, cutting off ears and noses, pissing on dead bodies, bayoneting babies, wiping out whole villages of men, women and children, rape and torture. This is how you don't lower yourself to the level of the enemy?
I'm scratching my head trying to think of when any such routine atrocities were ever inflicted on any Americans by the 'enemy'?
The argument that "who gives a fuck, they were terrorists" to me is a bit scary.
First... do we know they were terrorists or were they just people who got in the way? Will we ever know?
Second... I'd like to think that we could expect our soldiers to be better than that.
that said... I've known a lot of men and women coming back from the Middle East and especially in the most violent places, war messes you up. Badly. The horrors those people have to see every day would make most of us climb under our beds and scream.
Although I AM shocked by the incident and even more shocked by the video being made and then posted on Youtube... I hope those men aren't punished too much. And I hope that they and ALL returning military personnel get the help that they need... mental and health care... finical support... anything they need. They deserve it.
...
The Texas governor said on CNN's State of the Union programme: "Obviously, 18 and 19-year-old kids make stupid mistakes all too often. And that's what's occurred here.
...
so the military doesnt teach them respect for the enemy? thats a shame cause i know that the 18-19 year olds that ive raised so far wouldnt think it was just a stupid mistake, urinating on a corpse.. theyd think it was just not something a civilised person does, not to mention disgraceful...
even though we dont respect the enemy in life(otherwise we wouldnt kill them) they must be respected in death. i know some here have said theyd do far worse to us but that argument isnt gonna hold any amount of water. it just brings everyone down to the lowest common denominator... and thats not something we should rejoice in, let alone use to bolster any positive argument.
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i know that the 18-19 year olds that ive raised so far wouldnt think it was just a stupid mistake, urinating on a corpse.. theyd think it was just not something a civilised person does, not to mention disgraceful...
Which of course is why they did it.
I'm not defending them, but I DO know that they come from a country that has spread so much anti-Muslim propaganda that it's going to happen that they lose their sense of right/wrong when under the amount of stress they're under.
I'm sure that when they calmed down, they all had a "what the hell was I thinking" moment. Or... I hope they did.
i know that the 18-19 year olds that ive raised so far wouldnt think it was just a stupid mistake, urinating on a corpse.. theyd think it was just not something a civilised person does, not to mention disgraceful...
Which of course is why they did it.
I'm not defending them, but I DO know that they come from a country that has spread so much anti-Muslim propaganda that it's going to happen that they lose their sense of right/wrong when under the amount of stress they're under.
I'm sure that when they calmed down, they all had a "what the hell was I thinking" moment. Or... I hope they did.
i hope youre right... i hope it was a heat of the moment thing. but how out of your mind do you have to be to pee on a corpse? how much time had passed since the death of the afghanis before they peed on the bodies... and where was their commanding officer?
hear my name
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
i hope youre right... i hope it was a heat of the moment thing. but how out of your mind do you have to be to pee on a corpse? how much time had passed since the death of the afghanis before they peed on the bodies... and where was their commanding officer?
I have never been in the military so I don't know from first hand experience but I do know that when you're on a battlefield or in combat situations you learn to shut off your moral compass and just function without too much higher reasoning. You have to, trying to decide the moral pros and cons of shooting the truck driving at you too fast will get you and many of your friends dead.
I just know that many of the former military guys I've worked with will, if they trust you enough, tell you stories that clearly haunt them. They really do break them over there and it's hard to out all the pieces back together.
We should take into consideration how people follow what another does
in group situations also
few stand up for what they believe and say hell no... I'm not doing that! ...
instead they will follow the one or few doing something they know is morally wrong
kind of like the bullies and their backers
That is what's even more amazing in this instance...Was there a discussion about pissing on the bodies, or did one guy whip out his tallywhacker and the others followed like sheep? I can just picture them laughing like Beavis and Butthead. So sad some people can't think for a second.
The four soldiers should be severely reprimanded, without question.
On a side note, I noticed that many who campaign on this website against stereotyping are fine with letting the actions of four people paint an overall picture of the US military ... oh, and by the way, welcome to the club.
Comments
I read this the other day and agree. I do not defend their actions and these Marines should be properly punished. I just think that when you are in crazy place you have the chance to go crazy.
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00 Virginia Beach;Camden I; Jones Beach III
05 Borgata Night I; Wachovia Center
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This did happen to Americans when in Mogadishu, they dragged the SF soldier through the town naked. Also when the contractors, I believe Black Water, were torched dismembered and hung in Iraq.
98 CAA
00 Virginia Beach;Camden I; Jones Beach III
05 Borgata Night I; Wachovia Center
06 Letterman Show; Webcast (guy in blue shirt), Camden I; DC
08 Camden I; Camden II; DC
09 Phillie III
10 MSG II
13 Wrigley Field
16 Phillie II
Lots of US troops have been and are still in part of Korea...if it was/is an occupation, don't think that it is a text-book occupation....nowhere near the degree or length of the US occupation of Germany or Japan....or Iraq....or Afghanistan....or that of China's annexation (fancy word for occupation) of Tibet.
True. And the German occupation of Europe and the Soviet Union also wasn't pretty.
Wars of occupation have the habit of turning the occupiers into barbarians.
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I don't believe prison is the answer. Prison, like these guys pissing on dead bodies, is just a symptom of the overall system/ideology of this social experiment people call America. It's not even their fault they pissed on these guys. They haven't desensitized themselves. It's a 'gift'.
But let's say for arguments sake, prison was the answer. Now I don't know for sure but a military prison must still have it's chain of command like an american prison, throughout the prisoners, correct?
Anyway, I don't think in any situation where an individual has lost touch with his sense of decency (which would imply he had some at one point), should he then be put into a confined space. He needs someone to talk too. If you think about it, to these guys, pissing on these bodies was cool to do. Think about that if it is in fact true. i.e. Quote from clip: 'Have a good day buddy' after they finish.
Imagine the road to getting to this point though it may be totally clueless for them.
Fuck, I don't know...
1998: Barrie
2000: Montreal, Toronto, Auburn Hills
2003: Cleveland, Buffalo, Toronto, Montreal
2004: Boston X2, Grand Rapids
2005: Kitchener, London, Hamilton, Montreal, Ottawa, Toronto
2006: Toronto X2
2009: Toronto
2011: PJ20, Montreal, Toronto X2, Hamilton
2012: Manchester X2, Amsterdam X2, Prague, Berlin X2, Philadelphia, Missoula
2013: Pittsburg, Buffalo
2014: Milan, Trieste, Vienna, Berlin, Stockholm, Oslo, Detroit
2016: Ottawa, Toronto X2
2018: Padova, Rome, Prague, Krakow, Berlin, Barcelona
2023: Chicago X2
2024: New York X2
I don't believe they're taught not to be stupid. The tactic of 'you'll go to prison' doesn't prevent anything.
What is it John Lennon said ? Something along the lines of 'we practice violence in the open, and love in hiding'
"It doesn't matter what's right. It's only wrong if you get caught" - MJK
1998: Barrie
2000: Montreal, Toronto, Auburn Hills
2003: Cleveland, Buffalo, Toronto, Montreal
2004: Boston X2, Grand Rapids
2005: Kitchener, London, Hamilton, Montreal, Ottawa, Toronto
2006: Toronto X2
2009: Toronto
2011: PJ20, Montreal, Toronto X2, Hamilton
2012: Manchester X2, Amsterdam X2, Prague, Berlin X2, Philadelphia, Missoula
2013: Pittsburg, Buffalo
2014: Milan, Trieste, Vienna, Berlin, Stockholm, Oslo, Detroit
2016: Ottawa, Toronto X2
2018: Padova, Rome, Prague, Krakow, Berlin, Barcelona
2023: Chicago X2
2024: New York X2
It's obviously not working under the current system.. What do you suggest?
See, that's the thing Johnny. What you speak of is the best we've got. That's so f%%ked up!
For current system to change, the current system needs to implode. :shock:
1998: Barrie
2000: Montreal, Toronto, Auburn Hills
2003: Cleveland, Buffalo, Toronto, Montreal
2004: Boston X2, Grand Rapids
2005: Kitchener, London, Hamilton, Montreal, Ottawa, Toronto
2006: Toronto X2
2009: Toronto
2011: PJ20, Montreal, Toronto X2, Hamilton
2012: Manchester X2, Amsterdam X2, Prague, Berlin X2, Philadelphia, Missoula
2013: Pittsburg, Buffalo
2014: Milan, Trieste, Vienna, Berlin, Stockholm, Oslo, Detroit
2016: Ottawa, Toronto X2
2018: Padova, Rome, Prague, Krakow, Berlin, Barcelona
2023: Chicago X2
2024: New York X2
Severe hatred is generated between two fighting factions. The hatred and rage that exists leads people to express that rage in awful manner. While I obviously don't condone the act, I feel badly for all involved- the Afghanistan people and the Marines are in a brutal situation that I couldn't imagine. I cannot judge their actions because it is too easy for me to do so as I type on my laptop with my morning coffee and weekend off.
I'll also say this: it seems as if people want to hold Americans to the highest standards. The atrocities committed in War are universal. When American soldiers were mutilated in Somalia or Blackwater personnel were desecrated in Fallujah, people generally weren't surprised. It was as if they thought the enemy were inferior human beings and simply incapable of human behaviour adhering to a higher ethical code. When Americans conduct themselves in similar fashion, the world we hear from is shocked at the behaviour- somehow expecting more from what? A higher level human being? Pompous to say the least.
War promotes violence, hatred, and rage- it's not a board game with universal rules that everyone will follow. For example, sometimes people express how brutal the Chechnyan siege of the Beslan school was. While I abhorred the depressing incident, I wondered how the Chechnyans- overwhelmed by a superior Russian enemy- were supposed to fight a war that had them fighting with rubber bands, in sewer tunnels, while ducking missiles ("Come on now. Everyone in plain sight. It's not our fault you have weak air power and shitty missiles!").
War sucks.
How do you know they were terrorists? Because they were Afghans?
How do you justify all the random killings of innocent civilians for sport by U.S soldiers in Afghanistan and Iraq?
The occupied will always have the moral high-ground for anyone who looks at the situation objectively.
Anyone here seen the movie 'The Battle of Algiers'? It's one of the greatest movies ever made. Features in the top rankings of most 'Best of' polls. It was studied by terrorism 'experts' in the U.S after 9/11 as they wanted to try to understand what inspires 'terrorism'. If you watch the Criterion edition of the movie it includes a few documentary's on the film, including one about these American 'experts' watching it and discussing it. This particular documentary is eye-opening, as it shows just how blinkered and self-serving these U.S experts are. They completely miss the point.
Torrent: http://thepiratebay.org/torrent/4438635
One of the most influential political films in history, Gillo Pontecorvo's The Battle of Algiers (La bataille d'Alger) vividly recreates a key year in the tumultuous Algerian struggle for independence from the occupying French in the 1950s. As violence escalates on both sides, children shoot soldiers at point-blank range, women plant bombs in cafés, and French soldiers resort to torture to break the will of the insurgents. Shot in the streets of Algiers in documentary style, the film is a case study in modern warfare, with its terrorist attacks and the brutal techniques used to combat them. The Criterion Collection is proud to present Gillo Pontecorvo's tour de force a film with astonishing relevance today.
# DISC 1: THE BATTLE OF ALGIERS
# - New high-definition digital transfer, enhanced for widescreen televisions
# DISC 2: PONTECORVO AND THE FILM
# - Gillo Pontecorvo: The Dictatorship of Truth (1992): a 37-minute documentary, narrated by literary critic Edward Said
# - Exclusive 51-minute documentary on the making of The Battle of Algiers, featuring new interviews with the director, cinematographer, composer, editor, actors, and film historians
# - Five Directors (17 mins., 2004): Spike Lee, Mira Nair, Julian Schnabel, Steven Soderbergh, and Oliver Stone on the films influence, style, and importance
# DISC 3: THE FILM AND HISTORY
# - Remembering History (69 mins., 2004): an exclusive documentary that reconstructs the Algerian experience of the battle for independence, featuring interviews with historians and revolutionaries, including military leader Saadi Yacef
# - "Ãtats dârmes" (2002): a 28-minute documentary excerpt featuring senior French military officers recalling the use of torture and execution to combat the rebellion
# - The Battle of Algiers: A Case Study (25 mins., 2004): Richard A. Clarke, former national counterterrorism coordinator and author of Against All Enemies: Inside Americas War on Terror, discusses the films relevance with Michael A. Sheehan, former State Department coordinator for counterterrorism, in a conversation moderated by Christopher E. Isham, chief of investigative projects for ABC News
# - Gillo Pontecorvos Return to Algiers (58 mins., 1992): the filmmaker revisits the Algerian people after three decades of independence
Those are some ridiculous assumptions about us. I care more about our soldiers than our enemies, of course, but i loathe stupidity and the backlash their stupidity will certianly cause...again, this will only shake the beehive. It's not about anyones feelings for god sake.
'Defending us'? Defending us from what? These were Afghans. No Afghan ever attacked America, and neither did any Iraqi.
War is hell no doubt but American soldiers seem to abuse even their own fellow soldiers....NOW that's some messed up shit. I'm sure our US soldiers do far worse than peeing on the dead Taliban. FAR WORSE!
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/01/1 ... d%3D127742
Peace
*MUSIC IS the expression of EMOTION.....and that POLITICS IS merely the DECOY of PERCEPTION*
.....song_Music & Politics....Michael Franti
*The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite INSANE*....Nikola Tesla(a man who shaped our world of electricity with his futuristic inventions)
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/ja ... stan-video
Condemnation of Afghanistan video over the top, says Rick Perry
guardian.co.uk, Sunday 15 January
The Republican presidential hopeful Rick Perry has accused the Obama administration of "over-the-top rhetoric" and "disdain for the military" with its condemnation of a video that purportedly shows four US marines urinating on corpses in Afghanistan.
Perry's comments also put him at odds with Senator John McCain, the top Republican on the Senate armed services committee.
Perry said the marines involved should be reprimanded but not prosecuted on criminal charges.
The Texas governor said on CNN's State of the Union programme: "Obviously, 18 and 19-year-old kids make stupid mistakes all too often. And that's what's occurred here.
"What's really disturbing to me is the kind of over-the-top rhetoric from this administration and their disdain for the military."
McCain, who expressed concern that the images could damage the war effort, had said: "The Marine Corps prides itself that we don't lower ourselves to the level of the enemy. So it makes me sad more than anything else, because … I can't tell you how wonderful these people [marines] are. And it hurts their reputation and their image."
Isn't it a bit late for that?
It's already known what the Marines did in Vietnam, in Panama, Iraq, and Afghanistan.
Murdering unarmed civilians for sport, cutting off ears and noses, pissing on dead bodies, bayoneting babies, wiping out whole villages of men, women and children, rape and torture. This is how you don't lower yourself to the level of the enemy?
I'm scratching my head trying to think of when any such routine atrocities were ever inflicted on any Americans by the 'enemy'?
First... do we know they were terrorists or were they just people who got in the way? Will we ever know?
Second... I'd like to think that we could expect our soldiers to be better than that.
that said... I've known a lot of men and women coming back from the Middle East and especially in the most violent places, war messes you up. Badly. The horrors those people have to see every day would make most of us climb under our beds and scream.
Although I AM shocked by the incident and even more shocked by the video being made and then posted on Youtube... I hope those men aren't punished too much. And I hope that they and ALL returning military personnel get the help that they need... mental and health care... finical support... anything they need. They deserve it.
so the military doesnt teach them respect for the enemy? thats a shame cause i know that the 18-19 year olds that ive raised so far wouldnt think it was just a stupid mistake, urinating on a corpse.. theyd think it was just not something a civilised person does, not to mention disgraceful...
even though we dont respect the enemy in life(otherwise we wouldnt kill them) they must be respected in death. i know some here have said theyd do far worse to us but that argument isnt gonna hold any amount of water. it just brings everyone down to the lowest common denominator... and thats not something we should rejoice in, let alone use to bolster any positive argument.
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
Which of course is why they did it.
I'm not defending them, but I DO know that they come from a country that has spread so much anti-Muslim propaganda that it's going to happen that they lose their sense of right/wrong when under the amount of stress they're under.
I'm sure that when they calmed down, they all had a "what the hell was I thinking" moment. Or... I hope they did.
i hope youre right... i hope it was a heat of the moment thing. but how out of your mind do you have to be to pee on a corpse? how much time had passed since the death of the afghanis before they peed on the bodies... and where was their commanding officer?
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
I have never been in the military so I don't know from first hand experience but I do know that when you're on a battlefield or in combat situations you learn to shut off your moral compass and just function without too much higher reasoning. You have to, trying to decide the moral pros and cons of shooting the truck driving at you too fast will get you and many of your friends dead.
I just know that many of the former military guys I've worked with will, if they trust you enough, tell you stories that clearly haunt them. They really do break them over there and it's hard to out all the pieces back together.
in group situations also
few stand up for what they believe and say hell no... I'm not doing that! ...
instead they will follow the one or few doing something they know is morally wrong
kind of like the bullies and their backers
That is what's even more amazing in this instance...Was there a discussion about pissing on the bodies, or did one guy whip out his tallywhacker and the others followed like sheep? I can just picture them laughing like Beavis and Butthead. So sad some people can't think for a second.
On a side note, I noticed that many who campaign on this website against stereotyping are fine with letting the actions of four people paint an overall picture of the US military ... oh, and by the way, welcome to the club.