Universal healthcare...lets discuss!

_

MayDay Malone wrote:

The artist formerly known as a "hyphen" said:

1. There are NOT more free healthcare services for undocumented immigrants than American citizens. As a matter of fact, you haven't even named ONE free service for undocumented immigrants. Please provide a comprehensive list of these services of which you speak.

2. Undocumented immigrants pay sales tax, often pay payroll taxes, etc. If you want to have a conversation about immigrants' tax rates, start a thread about it. Re: how they rarely get to use the services they help pay for, please refer to #1.

3. Glad we agree that your single piece of anecdotal "evidence" about a flyer your wife distributed is not relevant to you claim about undocumented immigrants since it refers to American citizens.

1. Medicaid.

2.OH... they pay SALES tax. A fucking CITY tax. So when the get their assistance check/ free money/ (my money), they have to pay a CITY SALES TAX if they want to buy a hamburger or something. And you equate that to paying Fed, State, County, City, MediC/MedicA/ Social Security, etc? And they "OFTEN" pay payroll tax? Like how "often"? Like when?! And who? Can you give one example of an undocumented illegal alien paying documented payroll taxes? I doubt it, b/c you have no fucking idea. And that part about work visa and STILL no taxes? Didn't hear you respond to that one- because you had no fucking idea.

3. See number 1.

You attack 1 of 2 stories I told of real people in the med field and how Medicaid costs for illegals are negatively affecting their businesses, and making it hard to treat such people, and you painted it as insignifigant and "anecdotal".

Right before posting some unreadable droning about your day job phoning insurance companies- but I guess for your anecdotes, we should all gather round with open ears, hearts, and minds?

What a joke.

1. Undocumented immigrants are NOT eligible for general Medicaid. Under rare emergency circumstances, they are occasionally eligible for EMSA (Emergency Medical Services for Aliens), but that's only something they can apply for after they have received emergency medical services and many/most don't even apply for it because they're advised by their immigration lawyers not to. This is the same Medicaid any legal visitor to our country may be eligible for if they require emergency medical services while visiting our country. But for Medicaid in general, you have to provide proof of citizenship or legal residency. I know this because I am a Medicaid determiner. My job is to determine Medicaid eligibility. (That's only one part of my larger job.) YOU DON'T KNOW WHAT THE HELL YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT.

2. You know how there are always racist, anti-immigrant people complaining that undocumented immigrants can and do easily use fake social security numbers to get jobs? Those people are on the payroll. They pay all the SAME taxes that you and I pay.

3. See #1.

Both of your anecdotes were about Medicaid - for AMERICAN CITIZENS! They are not in any way relevant to your claims about undocumented immigrants. You STILL haven't posted ANYTHING at all to support your claims and you know you have nothing, so now you're resorting to personal attacks.

(And by the way, - is a hyphen; _ is an underscore.)

_

MayDay Malone wrote:

No, Beavers, but you rarely have any ideas to respond to... sorry, but its just that way.... You follow me around on the board and snipe at my comments with brilliant questions like the ones you just asked:

"Are you upset that little immigrant children are treated by doctors?"

"Do you think little immigrant children should die on emergency room floors?"


Give me a break, man... I will continue to ignore that crap as long as you sling it.

I'm just curious... which one of the banned trolls did you used to be?

_

OP, sorry to go off on a meaningless conversation with a troll. I know you came here for some facts. The fact is that it can be very difficult for poor people in the United States to get health coverage. It's nearly impossible if you don't have the proper documentation. There is some pretty good coverage for children through Medicaid, but different states have different income requirements for that and many people make too much money for their kids to get Medicaid but not enough money to pay out of pocket for private insurance if their employer doesn't provide it. Even if their employer does provide medical insurance, it can still be very costly and many people still can't afford it. And those who do have private insurance still often have to wait a long time for care and can't ever guarantee that their services will really be covered.

dignin

Jason P wrote:

Touching on your points about lobby influence, I feel the root cause of a lot of our problems lie in career politicians, 2-year congressional terms, and no term limits. I believe a 4-6 year, one term limit for both senators and congressmen would go a very long way in breaking this cycle of lobby influence. I don't understand why the Tea Party and OWS don't focus on this aspect. Instead of attacking a diseased tree at the roots, we are attacking individual limbs.

Agree 100% Term limits are needed

Go Beavers

MayDay Malone wrote:

No, Beavers, but you rarely have any ideas to respond to... sorry, but its just that way.... You follow me around on the board and snipe at my comments with brilliant questions like the ones you just asked:

"Are you upset that little immigrant children are treated by doctors?"

"Do you think little immigrant children should die on emergency room floors?"


Give me a break, man... I will continue to ignore that crap as long as you sling it.

I didn't ask those questions, but I guess you're trying to make some sort of point. You avoid my points as well as others who disagree with you in here. I'm not slinging crap, I'm trying to figure out your resistance to children of illegals receiving Medicaid (but please find out what Medicaid actually is before you continue to make reference to it). Also, illegals aren't elligible for cash welfare.

I follow you around on the board?! Let's not make ourself more grandiose than we already are.

gimmesometruth27

Go Beavers wrote:

MayDay Malone wrote:

No, Beavers, but you rarely have any ideas to respond to... sorry, but its just that way.... You follow me around on the board and snipe at my comments with brilliant questions like the ones you just asked:

"Are you upset that little immigrant children are treated by doctors?"

"Do you think little immigrant children should die on emergency room floors?"


Give me a break, man... I will continue to ignore that crap as long as you sling it.

I didn't ask those questions, but I guess you're trying to make some sort of point. You avoid my points as well as others who disagree with you in here. I'm not slinging crap, I'm trying to figure out your resistance to children of illegals receiving Medicaid (but please find out what Medicaid actually is before you continue to make reference to it). Also, illegals aren't elligible for cash welfare.

I follow you around on the board?! Let's not make ourself more grandiose than we already are.

yeah i am still waiting for a serious explanation about why obama is a marxist...but i digress...

people believe that illegals should not receive medicaid because they are not born here. as if being born here makes one more of a human being or something. but the funny thing to me is, in my years on this forum, 75% of the people complaining about the illegals receiving medicaid are the same ones who gripe about ANYONE receiving medicaid in other threads.

Jamie_The_CFH

MayDay Malone is too angry to actually discuss anything like an adult...respectable grown ups can their case then listen respectfully to others opinions, in a hope to inform or be informed. What's the point in going so mental over this? You seem to be so angry about how illegal immigrants are poisoning your world. I'm sure if this was a thread on any other issue of American politics, you'd find a way to rant on about the same point. Your 'evidence' is nowhere near as strong as the volume and frequency by which you shout. Are you really expecting your generalizing views to actually convince anyone that you are right? Probably not...your posts have led me to believe that you likely don't care how people respond to you...which makes me question: what are you trying to achieve? You've managed to turn this thread into a one person shouting match, taking away all focus from people who are actually contributing very well, as adults. No one's expecting unanimous agreement - we're allowed to have different political viewpoints...just stop being an arse about it.

Jason P

dignin wrote:

Jason P wrote:

Touching on your points about lobby influence, I feel the root cause of a lot of our problems lie in career politicians, 2-year congressional terms, and no term limits. I believe a 4-6 year, one term limit for both senators and congressmen would go a very long way in breaking this cycle of lobby influence. I don't understand why the Tea Party and OWS don't focus on this aspect. Instead of attacking a diseased tree at the roots, we are attacking individual limbs.

Agree 100% Term limits are needed

We need to form a collective voice and force this issue. How we do that ... I need someone to help me out on that. How do you convince an elected official to support this when you are essentially asking them how to end their career prematurely?

dignin

Jason P wrote:

dignin wrote:

Jason P wrote:

Touching on your points about lobby influence, I feel the root cause of a lot of our problems lie in career politicians, 2-year congressional terms, and no term limits. I believe a 4-6 year, one term limit for both senators and congressmen would go a very long way in breaking this cycle of lobby influence. I don't understand why the Tea Party and OWS don't focus on this aspect. Instead of attacking a diseased tree at the roots, we are attacking individual limbs.

Agree 100% Term limits are needed

We need to form a collective voice and force this issue. How we do that ... I need someone to help me out on that. How do you convince an elected official to support this when you are essentially asking them how to end their career prematurely?

I dont think you could convince many already in office to support this, you have to get to the candidates running against them. Other than letter writing and short of protest.... I dont know. Infiltrate OWS/Tea Party and make a nice sign ......but seriously if you could get one of those groups onboard at least you would have media attention and a much greater audience.

MayDay Malone

_ wrote:

MayDay Malone wrote:

The artist formerly known as a "hyphen" said:

1. There are NOT more free healthcare services for undocumented immigrants than American citizens. As a matter of fact, you haven't even named ONE free service for undocumented immigrants. Please provide a comprehensive list of these services of which you speak.

2. Undocumented immigrants pay sales tax, often pay payroll taxes, etc. If you want to have a conversation about immigrants' tax rates, start a thread about it. Re: how they rarely get to use the services they help pay for, please refer to #1.

3. Glad we agree that your single piece of anecdotal "evidence" about a flyer your wife distributed is not relevant to you claim about undocumented immigrants since it refers to American citizens.

1. Medicaid.

2.OH... they pay SALES tax. A fucking CITY tax. So when the get their assistance check/ free money/ (my money), they have to pay a CITY SALES TAX if they want to buy a hamburger or something. And you equate that to paying Fed, State, County, City, MediC/MedicA/ Social Security, etc? And they "OFTEN" pay payroll tax? Like how "often"? Like when?! And who? Can you give one example of an undocumented illegal alien paying documented payroll taxes? I doubt it, b/c you have no fucking idea. And that part about work visa and STILL no taxes? Didn't hear you respond to that one- because you had no fucking idea.

3. See number 1.

You attack 1 of 2 stories I told of real people in the med field and how Medicaid costs for illegals are negatively affecting their businesses, and making it hard to treat such people, and you painted it as insignifigant and "anecdotal".

Right before posting some unreadable droning about your day job phoning insurance companies- but I guess for your anecdotes, we should all gather round with open ears, hearts, and minds?

What a joke.

1. Undocumented immigrants are NOT eligible for general Medicaid. Under rare emergency circumstances, they are occasionally eligible for EMSA (Emergency Medical Services for Aliens), but that's only something they can apply for after they have received emergency medical services and many/most don't even apply for it because they're advised by their immigration lawyers not to. This is the same Medicaid any legal visitor to our country may be eligible for if they require emergency medical services while visiting our country. But for Medicaid in general, you have to provide proof of citizenship or legal residency. I know this because I am a Medicaid determiner. My job is to determine Medicaid eligibility. (That's only one part of my larger job.) YOU DON'T KNOW WHAT THE HELL YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT.

2. You know how there are always racist, anti-immigrant people complaining that undocumented immigrants can and do easily use fake social security numbers to get jobs? Those people are on the payroll. They pay all the SAME taxes that you and I pay.

3. See #1.

Both of your anecdotes were about Medicaid - for AMERICAN CITIZENS! They are not in any way relevant to your claims about undocumented immigrants. You STILL haven't posted ANYTHING at all to support your claims and you know you have nothing, so now you're resorting to personal attacks.

(And by the way, - is a hyphen; _ is an underscore.)

My anecdotes were about American Medical providers providing care to ILLEGALS.

Look, I just don't care to discuss this with you anymore. I'll be nice and just say we disagree.

I can't cancel my Xmas because some jackass on the internet is wrong.

Peace through strength, bitches.

MayDay Malone

Jamie_The_CFH wrote:

MayDay Malone is too angry to actually discuss anything like an adult...respectable grown ups can their case then listen respectfully to others opinions, in a hope to inform or be informed. What's the point in going so mental over this? You seem to be so angry about how illegal immigrants are poisoning your world. I'm sure if this was a thread on any other issue of American politics, you'd find a way to rant on about the same point. Your 'evidence' is nowhere near as strong as the volume and frequency by which you shout. Are you really expecting your generalizing views to actually convince anyone that you are right? Probably not...your posts have led me to believe that you likely don't care how people respond to you...which makes me question: what are you trying to achieve? You've managed to turn this thread into a one person shouting match, taking away all focus from people who are actually contributing very well, as adults. No one's expecting unanimous agreement - we're allowed to have different political viewpoints...just stop being an arse about it.

I think its funny that you are affected by my "volume and shouting", ON AN INTERNET BOARD.

I recommend a little sunshine for you, maybe a hobby or two.


I love the liberal hatred being dished my way... keep it coming.

_

MayDay Malone wrote:

My anecdotes were about American Medical providers providing care to ILLEGALS.

Look, I just don't care to discuss this with you anymore. I'll be nice and just say we disagree.

I can't cancel my Xmas because some jackass on the internet is wrong.

Peace through strength, bitches.

More blatant personal attacks from the troll who has no ability to support his outrageously erroneous claims. Surprise, surprise. :roll:

Given that this is your MO in every thread, I have no understanding of why you're even allowed to be here. Maybe the mods have the Christmas spirit.

MayDay Malone

_ wrote:

MayDay Malone wrote:

My anecdotes were about American Medical providers providing care to ILLEGALS.

Look, I just don't care to discuss this with you anymore. I'll be nice and just say we disagree.

I can't cancel my Xmas because some jackass on the internet is wrong.

Peace through strength, bitches.

More blatant personal attacks from the troll who has no ability to support his outrageously erroneous claims. Surprise, surprise. :roll:

Given that this is your MO in every thread, I have no understanding of why you're even allowed to be here. Maybe the mods have the Christmas spirit.

Keep it up man.. The troll bait has been tried by hateful libs before- I have a DIFFERENT opinion than you. That is all.

Calling people trolls, following them around the boards to snipe, will get you your own ban...

Merry Christmas. Christ is Lord.

_

MayDay Malone wrote:

_ wrote:

MayDay Malone wrote:

My anecdotes were about American Medical providers providing care to ILLEGALS.

Look, I just don't care to discuss this with you anymore. I'll be nice and just say we disagree.

I can't cancel my Xmas because some jackass on the internet is wrong.

Peace through strength, bitches.

More blatant personal attacks from the troll who has no ability to support his outrageously erroneous claims. Surprise, surprise. :roll:

Given that this is your MO in every thread, I have no understanding of why you're even allowed to be here. Maybe the mods have the Christmas spirit.

Keep it up man.. The troll bait has been tried by hateful libs before- I have a DIFFERENT opinion than you. That is all.

Calling people trolls, following them around the boards to snipe, will get you your own ban...

Merry Christmas. Christ is Lord.

We're not discussing opinions; we're discussing facts. Medicaid eligibility is a matter of fact, not opinion. The claim you made about undocumented immigrants having more publicly-funded health services available to them is a matter of fact, not opinion. Just because what you said isn't true doesn't suddenly make it an opinion.

And you're the one who's following me to other threads trying to bait me - and always threatening people with bans, like you have any control to be making threats. Please. :roll: Leave me alone.

EmBleve

_ wrote:

The fact is that it can be very difficult for poor people in the United States to get health coverage. It's nearly impossible if you don't have the proper documentation. There is some pretty good coverage for children through Medicaid, but different states have different income requirements for that and many people make too much money for their kids to get Medicaid but not enough money to pay out of pocket for private insurance if their employer doesn't provide it. Even if their employer does provide medical insurance, it can still be very costly and many people still can't afford it. And those who do have private insurance still often have to wait a long time for care and can't ever guarantee that their services will really be covered.

Thank you. I agree. I'm not sure if by health 'coverage' you are referring to insurance, or federally funded programs, or both. I also think that the current system makes it difficult for I guess what could be called the lower-middle class or the blue-collar workers, for many of the reasons that you mentioned. For example, the parents of the children who receive Medicaid make too much money to get coverage themselves (and I am mostly referring to preventative-type medical care to include dental), but they don't make enough money to tend to themselves adequately, much less be able to afford private insurance. I think that it puts many people in a bad spot. They are only able to go see doctors or dentists when it is absolutely necessary, and at that point oftentimes, I venture to guess, the problems they are having are either worse than they think or lead to the discovery of some underlying serious problem that could have been resolved much more easily had they had preventative care available. By that point, they have no choice but to have something done, and to have to pay for it out of pocket (or for the rest of their lives).

Jamie_The_CFH

This thread has died a death...some good thoughts though! Merry Xmas all! See you in Manchester 20th and 21st June! XXXXXXXXXX

Go Beavers

Jamie_The_CFH wrote:

This thread has died a death...some good thoughts though! Merry Xmas all! See you in Manchester 20th and 21st June! XXXXXXXXXX

Healthcare ones typically go down in flames because it's difficult to defend the current system in the U.S. Oddly enough, at the same time, it's difficult to change the current system.

I guess Mayday tried, but you see how well that worked out.